Carb cleaner can spray nozzle perhaps?
Carb cleaner can spray nozzle perhaps?
Jason
85 ATC 250R - restored stock other than 18" rears, nerf bars, Honda key switch, 14T front sprocket, and white tank and plastics (except rad shrouds)
87 ATC 200X - restored stock other than 18" rears and nerf bars
84 TRX 200 - rough but complete budget restore for wife and eventually daughters to bum around on
Eton Viper 50cc - oldest daughter's current ride
I think you guys may be on to it. I just shut down the garage for the night, but now I'm gonna have to go back out there and compare it to the other straws in the garage... (running now before I finish this post).
You guys nailed it! Its the straw from a spray can like carb cleaner or brake cleaner! I stretched out the mangled mess that I removed from my exhaust valve and it is pretty much the same length as the one I grabbed from my can of brake cleaner.
Check it out:
Underneath that nasty black is actually red plastic. It is visible (not in these pics so well) in other parts of the straw.
Mystery solved! Thanks guys!
I figure I'm going to keep posting here on my progress with the cleanup, repairs, and reassembly of this machine.
Didn't have a lot of time tonight to do much other than wire wheel the motor mount bolts and the aluminum spacers. So much to do. I'm gonna call around tomorrow and search for a local machine shop capable of handling the cylinder bore and valve job (yup, I think I've decided to go 10.25 on a fresh bore).
- Frank
1984 200ES Big Red
1985 350X (x2)
1986 350X
1986 250SX
1984 Auto-X
1984 ATC70
1985 ATC70
1984 HONDA ATC200M - OG, mid-restoration
1981 HONDA ATC200 - future build
1981 HONDA ATC185S - parts
1984 ATC200X - roller, future build
1984 Honda ATC250r - in a million pieces- ISO grab bar, PM if you have one
Da velder
_______________________________________________
Feedback:
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...ck-for-Barnboy
So I spent most of the last week just disassembling and cleaning parts. The machine is down to the frame and swingarm.
Finally, on Friday my first parts order came in.
After a quick trip to the machine shop to drop off the piston, it's time for some re-assembly!
First up was the front tire and hub. The original tire had great tread depth left, but had some cracking in it and very poorly installed plugs. I figured even after plugging the holes the tire wasn't going to hold air, so I ordered a tube for it. So time to break the bead and remove it to install new plugs. I managed to find the official Honda tire removal tool quite a few years ago. It works very well! Plus the larger rim size of the front tire makes this one much easier to get off the rim once the bead is broken.
Now that the tire was off, it was time to pull the old plugs out (two) and prepare for a new patch/plug. I've used these quite a bit and really like them. It provides a plug attached to a large circular patch on the inner surface. Obviously not as convenient as using a conventional plug which allows you to fix this without removing the tire from the rim, but this setup works very well especially for larger punctures. Even though I'm gonna run a tube, I want these holes patched to prevent any debris from entering the tire through the holes. So this just works like a normal patch: you "buff" the inner surface of the tire to clean it, apply the cement and let it completely dry, remove the backing from the patch and pull the stem through the hole, then "stitch" it down using the toothy roller wheel. This really presses the patch down and gets rid of any air. Then just cut the extra plug length off.
Next up new bearings in the front hub.
- Frank
1984 200ES Big Red
1985 350X (x2)
1986 350X
1986 250SX
1984 Auto-X
1984 ATC70
1985 ATC70
The front bearing install was pretty standard.
I didn't take pics of the removal, but I have a way that I like to do it that I've used a bunch and it works well. I'm honestly not sure how else to do it. To remove them, here is what I do:
1. Pop out the bearing dust seal with a pick
2. Drive the bearing cage off the balls with a punch. This is super easy if the cage is a plastic clip on style, but more difficult if the cage is spot welded stamped steel.
3. Scoot all the balls to one side and remove the inner race and then the balls. Save for later.
4. Now the bearing spacer can easily be removed and the opposite bearing driven out with your favorite drift
5. So all that is left now is the original outer bearing race. I actually just reassemble the bearing with most (but doesn't have to be all) of the original balls and inner race.
6. Just lay some of the balls on the outer race, set the inner race back on them, and then scoot some of the balls to the other side. Just get it so there is a ball sorta on each side of the inner race. This will be enough to hold it all together while the bearing is not driven out (using a drift from the other side)
After wire-wheeling the spacer to clean it up, everything is put back together. Bearings are driven with the proper size tool (DO NOT DRIVE ON THE INNER RACES! You'll brinell the bearing and ruin it) Use something that will apply pressure on only the outer race. Both bearing are driven in until they bottom out. Don't forget to insert the spacer tube after the first bearing is in!!
Next up are the seals. I used a tool that overlapped the seal and hits on the hub to keep the seals flush with the surface. Once I reassembled the hub on the machine (more on that later) I realized that the right side seal (the opposite side from the brake disc) need to be recessed for the spacer to seal properly.
- Frank
1984 200ES Big Red
1985 350X (x2)
1986 350X
1986 250SX
1984 Auto-X
1984 ATC70
1985 ATC70
I didn't get any pics of the front fork rebuild. My hands were just too oily to use my phone. But there are lots of threads out there on rebuilding forks (I think!). The key with a fork rebuild is to inspect the two bushings: one on the bottom of the fork tube and the one that presses into the top of the slider. Make sure the wear surface (the outer surface of the fork tube bushing and inner surface of the slider bushing) are uniformly grey. This is a coating that provides the sliding surface. If you see copper showing through a majority of the bushing then it is worn out.
Also, when sliding on your new fork seals, use a thin plastic grocery bag on the top of the fork tube so that the alignment groove on the top of the tube doesn't damage the seal. Dump a little fork oil on the bag and the seal will easily slide over it and onto the fork tube.
The steering stem bearing were next. 86 uses the identical loose 18 balls on the top of the steering stem like 85 uses, but instead of the same on the bottom, 86 uses a cage to hold the loose balls. There is still a separate race on the bottom triple and one in the steering neck on the frame, but it is nice not having to manage the loose balls on the bottom of the stem.
After greasing the bottom bearing, the lower triple is slid up into the neck of the frame and then a good amount of grease is applied to the race at the top of the neck. The 18 1/4" steel bearing balls are place in (the grease holds them in place) then the upper race and large retention nut.
Once this is in place tighten the nut on top very tight (relatively, probably 20-30 foot pounds) and move the triples back and forth a few times. This sets the bearing and gets everything where it needs to be. Then loosed the nut all the way and torque it to a final torque (per the manual) of about 5 foot pounds. This nut requires a hook spanner and I didn't have a way to measure it, so I used the TLAR method. The triple should still take a tiny amount of effort to move, it shouldn't be able to flop under its own weight.
Once that's done, it's time to place the upper triple clamp on top, slide in the fork tubes for alignment, and torque down the final top nut.
Done!
- Frank
1984 200ES Big Red
1985 350X (x2)
1986 350X
1986 250SX
1984 Auto-X
1984 ATC70
1985 ATC70
Almost done catching up this thread with my progress...
I had an old set of fork boots to replace the completely destroyed originals on this machine, but there was one crack and they were pretty stiff.
I took them inside, washed them in really hot water to hopefully soften them up a bit, and used some super glue on the split to try to close the gap. Bottom line: it didn't work. The one boot was too far gone. Time to break into the emergency parts stash:
Those will work!
Last step before buttoning up the front end was to clean up the front axle bolt and spacers. The spacers wound up having a lot of surface pitting. These definitely would have just chewed up my new seals. Time to dive back into the parts stash again. After wire-wheeling the "stash" parts, I had a usable set. I decided I would just us the parts stash axle bolt too since it was cleaner. Top bolt: original. Bottom bolt: parts stash bolt going on machine
Time to grease the wheel bearing seals, slather up the axle bolt and put it all together.
DONE!
Sorry for the sideways pics... I'll see if I can figure out how to fix that.
Up Next: Front Brakes!
- Frank
1984 200ES Big Red
1985 350X (x2)
1986 350X
1986 250SX
1984 Auto-X
1984 ATC70
1985 ATC70
Looks great....you're moving quickly and this is going to be an awesome bike. A 350x is on my list...I will get one someday....
1984 HONDA ATC200M - OG, mid-restoration
1981 HONDA ATC200 - future build
1981 HONDA ATC185S - parts
1984 ATC200X - roller, future build
1984 Honda ATC250r - in a million pieces- ISO grab bar, PM if you have one
Da velder
_______________________________________________
Feedback:
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...ck-for-Barnboy
I've got to file that under: Answers for generic engine won't run questions.
Good thing that's all it was. Good job on getting on everything so quickly.
That front tire though. I'd be more than a little apprehensive about going fast and hard on it. Instead of a road gator, it may become a trail gator. It looks like someone rode it flat (or pert near) for a while, which will break down the carcass.
The story of three wheels and a man...
When you do the engine reassembly the valve cover goes on without a gasket. DO NOT USE SILICON. Silicon turns into mush when it gets soaked in motor oil. I've been using permatex on all of my x's
and it is holding up well. The silicon will end up getting into your oiling system when it lets go, and do bad things. Whatever "sealant" you use don't glob it on. You want to minimize how much of it will squeeze
into the inside of the cover as so it doesn't end up globbing off and falling into the top of the head and blocking of the oil passages.
Also, valves are getting scarce for the 350x. If you can find new ones -great. But you might end up having to use the old ones if they are still good.
YAMAHA 450 HYBRID
85 350X- RED
85 350x -BLACK
86 350x-WHITE (with Goki)
85 250r
83 atc 70
84 atc 70
84 atc 110
09 yfz 450
2006 Arctic Cat Prowler
RZR XP 900
Thanks for the input guys. I'll keep an eye on that front tire and see how it looks after some riding. I've honestly seen worse condition tires before, but I agree I don't want a blowout happening which would not be nice to the OEM front fender.
Low compression causes:
1. Bad rings
2. Worn cylinder
3. Burned/sticking valve
4. Little red straw from can of carb cleaner stuck in your exhaust port holding valves open
LOL!!
With regard to the top end assembly: AMEN! I'm with you and am extremely anal retentive about this. I follow the book procedure and use the recommended Hondabond sealant (as far as I can tell, same material the factory used). I go so far as to actually mark in sharpie marker the "exclusion" zones exactly as shown in the manual. I am very careful about this because I don't want to starve the cam journals of oil...
Another skill that is a sort of transfer skill from another hobby of mine (electronics) is using a razor blade as a squeegee of sorts to even out heatsink grease on electronic components. Same story here, you just want a very even thin layer of material. I've reassembled a couple 350x topends so far, and I use the razor blade to smooth out and remove the excess Hondabond. I just go over it to get a nice smooth even layer that isn't spilling out over the edges. I then usually let it sit open just a bit longer and then place the cylinder head cover on with all bolts just finger tight. I let that sit a bit, then finally torque per spec.
Regarding the valves, they are actually in beautiful shape. I have a couple sets of OEM new valves in the stash, but these are staying safely tucked away as the guy at the machine shop said that they originals were in perfect condition and will clean up with no effort.
- Frank
1984 200ES Big Red
1985 350X (x2)
1986 350X
1986 250SX
1984 Auto-X
1984 ATC70
1985 ATC70
Progress update from Sunday:
Gave the headlight shell a bath. Just need to do something about the minor rust on the bottom of the lamp lenses. Probably just find a brush on rust converting coating so I can do this in the house (too cold in the garage for this type of work). Sorry, no post bath pictures. I'll get some once this is all back assembled.
Rebuilt front and rear brakes. Front caliper was in great shape, just needed to clean the slide rail pins. Gave the whole thing a good wipe down to clean it up, wire wheels all the fasteners and then reconnected the hose with new crush washers. Pads had good life left in them, rubber parts were good (after cleaning). Overall excellent condition.
With the front master cylinder, I was unfortunately not so lucky. One of the handlebar bracket bolts broke (a first for me) and one of the Philips lid screws stripped. I botched the removal. What I USUALLY do is find a drill bit just a bit smaller than the OD of the head of the screw and then drill down. The stripped Philips slot usually give you a good enough centering of the drill bit. Once you drill down just far enough, you sever the head from the screw and then the lid is free. This also leaves plenty of screw sticking up to grab with vice grips and back out the rest of the screw. Well, I used too small of a bit and ate into the portion of the screw that I usually grab with the vice grips. It mushed and broke off and I'm left with the screw stuck in the master with nothing to grab. I think my next plan of attack will be to use an old lid as a drill guide and use that to help center the drill bit as I try to drill this out. The master would otherwise be rebuildable, and I hate wasting an original OEM master cylinder especially with the "HA5" marks in the casting. I'm a sucker for keeping the old original parts going.
Anyway, no time to mess with this now, so into the parts stash again for a different master. Found one that looked promising. I removed the piston and found that a quick cleaning and blast with some brake cleaner and this was good to go. Cosmetically not a 10, but functional for sure. Grabbed a good used brake lever out of the stash (original was broken off) and a couple new chrome oval headed screws for the handlebar mount and got it mounted up. Oh yea, new crush washer too. No pics of anything except the final result:
The rear caliper required a complete rebuild. When I removed the park brake block-off plate, it was very wet with brake fluid. The little P8 o-ring that seals the park brake stem out the back of the piston must have been leaking. Anyway, completely tore down the caliper and found the o-ring and retaining cup loose on the park brake stem. The little cup requires a little tap with something flat to give it a tiny bit of mushrooming to give a tight fit again. All new rubber parts, cleaned piston all shiny new looking, wire wheeled all hardware and reassembled. The master only required a new rubber boot on the input shaft. Sorry no pics of this one... it was way too late and hand way too oily.
Oh yea, I'm trying out these new handlebars from Emgo. These were very affordable, and I've had them on the shelf for a while waiting for a project. They are intended for a later model quad ('93-'06 TRX300EX), but they have the provisions for the OEM handlebar endcaps, grips, and are similar to the 350X bend. I've never used them, but we'll see. The only hickup is that the knurled area of the bar is too narrow for the bar clamps. They seem to be secure, but it will take a little riding to be sure.
Up next: Have to decide about pulling swingarm pivot bolt and inspecting that or cleaning up the exhaust and drilling one snapped heat shield bolt... we'll see how the week goes.
- Frank
1984 200ES Big Red
1985 350X (x2)
1986 350X
1986 250SX
1984 Auto-X
1984 ATC70
1985 ATC70
Good to hear you knew about the silicon problem, most don't. I've also dug silicon out of the oil screen in the bottom of the engine from people using it on the clutch side cover.
YAMAHA 450 HYBRID
85 350X- RED
85 350x -BLACK
86 350x-WHITE (with Goki)
85 250r
83 atc 70
84 atc 70
84 atc 110
09 yfz 450
2006 Arctic Cat Prowler
RZR XP 900
I pretty much only use the Hondabond now, if anything. Side cover gaskets go on dry for me (actually a little oil first) but no sealant. I've lived with too much silicone snot inside of motors from previous owners to know better now.
Cheers!
- Frank
1984 200ES Big Red
1985 350X (x2)
1986 350X
1986 250SX
1984 Auto-X
1984 ATC70
1985 ATC70