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Thread: 84 200 ES In Cold weather

  1. #1
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    84 200 ES In Cold weather

    Good day all,

    I run my 3wheeler in the winter here in Canada. I use it as cold as -20F or -29C. I am wondering if I should do anything different to my bike to help it start in these colder conditions. Adjust the carburettor different oil anything. Even advance the time slightly??

    In suggestions would be welcomed..

  2. #2
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    The trike will be sitting in the bed of my truck for a hour driving with those conditions so starting it when it is warm is not a option. Thanks for the reply though.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by brobones View Post
    Good day all,

    I run my 3wheeler in the winter here in Canada. I use it as cold as -20F or -29C. I am wondering if I should do anything different to my bike to help it start in these colder conditions. Adjust the carburettor different oil anything. Even advance the time slightly??

    In suggestions would be welcomed..
    At the very least you can open your fuel screw 1/2 to 1 turn when it drops below -10C. When its at around -20C you might want to try 1 size larger on the pilot/slow jet, lowering the needle clip (you want to lift the needle) and going up a size or two on the main jet. Try to avoid holding it wide open in situations like crossing a lake when its colder than -20C unless you've gone up on the main jet, had mine sieze on me once when I was young and stupider.

    If you ever find yourself in sub minus 30C temps it can help to remove the plug and splash a little gas into the cylinder to get it to fire. I know what you mean when you talk about taking it out of the back of a truck after a drive, it's like you can lift the trike with the pull rope
    F**K ZUCK!

  4. #4
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    What weight of oil are you using?

    At those temps you should be using something lighter than what is normal and it really should be synthetic because the paraffin in conventional oils makes it too thick at those low of temps.


    What fuel octane rating are you using?

    In some northern U.S. states, they have a lower octane winter formula for gasoline. I've seen some down into the mid/upper 70 octane. I don't know if Canada uses the same method to rate gasoline octane. Would also need to check that out. High octane fuel will struggle to ignite in the low compression 200ES engine at the temps you are using it in.


    Which spark plug are you using?

    This will have more to do with operating conditions than starting. I can't say for certain, but at those low of temps the standard plug heat range may cause issues like fouling. Honda typically gives a part number for one above and one below the normal heat range spark plug. A hotter plug may make it run better once going and warmed up as much as it can.


    The carb adjustments will be off at those temps, regardless of elevation. Colder air is more dense and more fuel can be mixed with it. At this point though, I think oil flow is the most critical concern. Too thick of oil at those temps will certainly cause accelerated startup wear.
    The story of three wheels and a man...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyman Person View Post
    Engines run RICH in cold weather, not lean. Absolutely no reason to suggest richening the mix.
    That explains the dramatic increase in fuel economy when cold weather driving.
    F**K ZUCK!

  6. #6
    Scootertrash's Avatar
    Scootertrash is offline Just Too Addicted: Protecting Our Community The day begins with 3WW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyman Person View Post
    Engines run RICH in cold weather, not lean. Absolutely no reason to suggest richening the mix.
    Nice copypasta Einstein.

    LO F'N L And people are supposed to bow down to your superior knowledge??

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyman Person View Post
    This is what you call an "Internet tech"
    No better way to back up an insult and prove your expertise in that insult than to engage in the same activity.

    Can I have your autograph?
    Quote Originally Posted by fabiodriven View Post
    Trick the people into thinking they're enacting their own will and you have willing slaves.

    Liberalism suspends the intellect of its victims, while at the same time tricking them into believing that they're smarter than everyone else.


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  7. #7
    Scootertrash's Avatar
    Scootertrash is offline Just Too Addicted: Protecting Our Community The day begins with 3WW
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    Sarcasm. Someone with the self described intellectual superiority you claim should be able to figure that out.
    Quote Originally Posted by fabiodriven View Post
    Trick the people into thinking they're enacting their own will and you have willing slaves.

    Liberalism suspends the intellect of its victims, while at the same time tricking them into believing that they're smarter than everyone else.


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyman Person View Post
    The biggest factor to the decrease in fuel economy in winter is drag. Of the many factors, air fuel mix is not one of them.
    You probably wanna pass that last part about fuel mixture onto all the major motorcycle manufacturers as well as everybody designing fuel injection systems these past couple of decades. I’m sure they will be thrilled with this information.
    F**K ZUCK!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyman Person View Post
    Loads of amateur bullshlt in this post. Pretty much all of this nonsense is false.
    Thank you for the support. You forgot to about the spark plugs though.


    I have in fact seen gasoline at a station with a 70-something octane rating. I was shocked to see it. It was at some remote Co-Op type fuel pump in Idaho. Maybe there were a lot of antique tractor owners around the area. In my experience, fuel blends across US regions can behave quite differently in older engines with carburetors and non computer controlled ignitions. Octane ratings at the pump are more than that, there are different chemicals used in the different octanes that can make them behave differently in older engines. The key here is most people aren't driving carbureted vehicles anymore and never notice the difference, at least with average performance modern engines. I certainly get varied fuel economy and performance when driving in the US with a carbureted engine. Even if its small I notice it because I've been driving the same vehicle for years.

    In short, high octane fuel isn't needed in a stock 200cc ATC engine. It certainly isn't helping anything (other than maybe increased detergents depending on the brand), and it may actually be causing issues because of the fixed ignition timing these engines have (not accounting for an owner adjusting it).



    Syn oil resistance if futile!

    There is no argument that stands up to conventional oils being superior. I'm not talking WWII Nazi Syn oil tech because they were cut off from crude supplies, I'm talking about the modern stuff. Engine oil of any type will not remain in quantity on any unused engine components for extended periods. What matters is how quickly it pumps from the sump to the parts during startup.

    Take any old pushrod, hydraulic lifter V8 that's been sitting for many years that only had conventional oil in it, and even though it may start and run, it'll clatter. The lifters will never pump up regardless of RPM. The distributor has to be pulled and the oil pump primed with a drill. Conventional oil staying on parts? Besides, the ATC head has a tub under the camshaft that holds oil. Honda designed it that way, so the camshaft should never start dry. I would copy and paste a picture, but I think anyone that's worked on these understands that.

    I'm not advocating shopping at Wal-Mart, but I've been very satisfied with their brand of 10-40 full synthetic (motorcycle specific, not the auto stuff), and I used to use Mobile and the Castrol full syn.

    Just because modern synthetic engine oils weren't available when these ATC engines were designed, doesn't mean that it isn't a superior engine oil.


    As far as jetting goes, I don't ever suggest any specific adjustments. There are so many variables and vehicle past unknowns, that it's virtually impossible to be correct. It's possible to get into the ballpark, but fine tuning a carburetor takes more time and patience then most people will invest. Without experiencing a properly tuned carb/engine, a person doesn't have the proper base reference. On a stock engine, start at stock with brand name jets and work from there, but carb wear can even screw that up and most ATC carbs don't have an adjustable float. Float height is the very first thing that should be set, but if the parts are worn and it can't be set, everything else will be a compromise.



    If you truly want to improve this site, I'd appreciate anything other than an ad hominem response.
    The story of three wheels and a man...

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