ATC200E delayed acceleration under load

[bhil923]

I have an '83 ATC2000E which was beginning to feel like it was slipping when accelerating under load, for a second or two, before it would grip and actually accelerate. From my understanding that would likely be the one-way clutch (centrifugal clutch) slipping. I ordered the parts and started my repairs and figured that I would also replace the clutch friction plates while I was in there. My issue now is that everything looks pretty good in there, and I am starting to question my thoughts on what was causing this issue. Is there anything else that you guys think could cause this delayed acceleration? I wanted to try to get some input before I put everything back together. Thanks!

[350for350]

If you don't run oil that's rated for a wet clutch, it can make the clutch slip.

[ATC King]

First check would be clutch adjustment. Did you check that before pulling it down?

Another would be the disk clutch spring free length. There's a spec for it. If they're shorter than spec, they need replaced. Get a whole kit too, fibers and metal, but stay away from the 'performance' clutch springs. They're not needed on a stock engine and just make the shifting feel harder.

The primary drum I.D. also needs checked and replaced if beyond the service limit.

Check the basket for notches.

Also, soak any new clutch material in oil overnight before installation.

[bhil923]

Sorry if this is a double reply, I thought I replied but now I do not see it....

The oil I am using is 10w40, since I saw that recommended in a few places (and pretty sure that is what my uncle has been using since '83). I will be replacing the clutch springs while I am in there, but I will measure the old for knowledge and also to save for "emergency use" if they are still within spec. I did not order the metal but if they are within spec, 2.9-3.0mm, I should be good right? I didnt even think to measure the drum, so I will need to check that out and see. Should the drum have no grooves at all in it? If I recall I could feel some grooves in there. All of the clutch material is soaking in that 10w40, so should be fully soaked when I can get the rest of that checked and get the rest of that stubborn gasket material off. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Shep1970]

The 10w-40 oil back in '83 is nothing like the 10w-40 of "today" over the years with all the new slippery additives, I'm with 350for350 get some wet clutch oil. Thats where i'd start.

shep

[ATC King]

I did not order the metal but if they are within spec, 2.9-3.0mm, I should be good right?

They should also be checked for warping. It may be obvious if there are spots of discoloration. Otherwise, they are put on a truly flat surface and a feeler gauge is used to see if it'll slide under them anywhere. Check the manual for this spec, if it's there. Really, any warp and they should be replace, but Honda may be the only place to get them and it'll be per disk (no kit) and I think they are rather expensive compared to the cost of budget fiber plates.

New drums don't have grooves. If you could find a new drum, it's going to cost dear.

On the engine oil, simply any motorcycle or ATV oil in the weight you choose. Those are made for wet clutch use. It's no more complicated than that. If you've got a Honda motorcycle shop nearby, you may find that Honda GN4 oil isn't any more expensive than aftermarket choices. Automotive stores and Walmart carry motorcycle/ATV oil. Plenty of places to buy it off the shelf or order online if looking for a better deal and don't mind waiting.

[bhil923]

I measured and the drum and metal clutch plates and both were significantly less than the shop manual suggested. I found them both for reasonable prices or at least hopefully they will ship. I also ordered some 10w40 GN4 for this one and when I get the other up and running as well. Hopefully she'll be up and running by next weekend. My next fun will be clutch adjustment and jetting of the new carb (if needed). Thank you guys for the help!

[bhil923]

So, I replaced a few parts, and having a new issue when put it all back together. So I replaced: clutch disks and friction plates, clutch springs, centrifugal clutch drum, centrifugal clutch shoes, carb (26mm), fuel line, and the exhaust. When running in neutral everything is fine. When shifting to first it lurches forward no matter the change on the clutch adjustment. I double checked the one way bearing (had to move it over to the new drum) and it is exactly as it was in the old drum, and matched pictures in clymer and the Honda service manual. If I am rolling slightly it will run fine and can shift nicely though all the gears (better than before) but the second i stop it will lurch forward then die.

My guess is that maybe it is too high of idle. Any ideas before I put it back together again and potentially waste more oil? Some of the torque specs seemed inconsistent between manuals as well, so could the clutch springs tightness cause something like this? Thank you all for your help!

[shortline10]

Did you go with an OEM or aftermarket centrifugal clutch ?
In my experience the aftermarket ones will have your symptoms .

[ATC King]

I double checked the one way bearing (had to move it over to the new drum) and it is exactly as it was in the old drum, and matched pictures in clymer and the Honda service manual.

It's been a while since I had one apart. Does that bearing have outside marked on one side? If it was in backwards, the trike would behave as you describe.

A easy way to check that is when putting it into gear, do it quickly and hold the shift lever after shifting, don't let it return. That will hold the disc clutch open, if that's assembled correctly, and allow it to remain running just as holding a clutch lever on a motorcycle when in gear.

Overall, that will tell you if the problem is the centrifugal clutch, backward bearing or any other problem with it.

Of course, the above, after lowering the idle if need be.

[bhil923]

I used all OEM parts, except for the bolts that hold in the "oil filter" as they are pretty generic and I picked them up at the local hardware store (old ones were visibly worn). The bearing does not seem to be marked, but it has a larger lip on one side, which was facing in when I moved it over, and also shows as such in the drawings I've seen. You can see here that the thicker side goes toward the drum https://cdn.partzilla.com/MTE/d/8/Mj...Q-8871ceb2.png . I also looked at some on ebay for take off parts and they were oriented the same way as well. I am beginning to think that it may have just been too fast of an idle, and I might just put it all back together and give it another shot.

[bhil923]

For anyone looking into this in the future: The one-way clutch should turn freely counter-clockwise on an '83 ATC200e when correctly installed (I had it installed correctly first go-around). If you already have it buttoned up, with the bike off, place the bike in first and tires should drag going forward, but you should be able to roll it backwards (although with some engine resistance), if it is the opposite, then it is installed incorrectly.

With that being said, I am still having issues with it lurching forward on shifting into 1st unless the idle is set very very low. I am guessing this might be related to me not being able to order new springs, and the new shoes and new drum are a bit too close and might just need to wear in a little bit. Everything seems to run nicely otherwise, and I'll try and take it out this weekend for a some rides since we will be getting into the 60s/70s (just after coming out of a bad snow storm on Tuesday). Thanks for the help!

[350for350]

Go get wet and muddy this weekend and let us know how it does.

[kb0nly]

I had this problem on all three of my 200's, the 200E, 200ES, and 200... The problem was the replacement centrifugal clutch didn't have enough clearance to the drum. I had weak clutches on them so i put in new centrifugal clutches and clutch discs, and the 200E was the first one i did, it did the lurch and die when putting into gear, took it apart and though the centrifugal clutch would spin inside the drum it wasn't enough, you need about 15-20 thousands on each side, take a feeler gauge and check between the shoes and the drum, if you got less then that you will have this issue. I ended up taking the drum to my lathe and taking off about 5 thou on the 200E to give it the clearance and it worked great after that. The 81 200 the replacement shoes were just too dang thick, i think they are making the replacements thicker to make up for drum wear, because if you measure the shoes they are thicker then the original tolerances in the service manual, i didn't feel good about taking a lot off the drum so i put the shoes in the lathe with the center hub and springs holding them together and shaved a bit off the shoes, drastic sounding i know but it just wouldn't stop lurching, after doing that its perfect. On my 200ES i ended up shaving a bit off the shoes and about 5 thou off the drum and it grabs hard but doesn't lurch.

Just comes down to the shoes, there was a LOT of variance in the ones i bought, all three were different thickness, one was Honda OEM, it was the thickest, the other two were Caltric. But they all had issues until i fine tuned them. Check your spacing with a feeler gauge and you will know.