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Thread: Demo derby talk and such

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114

    Demo derby talk and such

    We got a bit of a convo started over in my other thread linked below, figured I'd push this into a separate topic to keep things more atc related in the main forum.

    http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...68#post1528768

    Anyway, I've expanded into making derby harnesses, basically a power adapter which is often called a simplified harness. Some cars aren't easy to go that route with, so they generally get a whole engine harness replacement called a stand alone. Either case the goal is the same, delete as much wiring as possible so less things to get pinched and shorted out.

    I might not run in derbies, but I've talked to 100's of people at this point and have collected a lot of advice and compiled some theories and such that should be interesting to test out, so if you have a question about this sport, let me know and I'll try to answer as best as I can. I primarily have experience with camry, corolla, and accord drivers. I've done some work on the W body side of things (GM cars with 3100, 3400 engines are most common, but some come with 3300 and 3800).

    My site is pretty new and limited info on it currently, but I plan to expand it a lot. It mainly has specs that derby drivers care about and I have more I want to post that I think would be handy.

    https://derbyws.com

    For side projects, I've been wanting to "hack" Toyota v6 computers to disable the engine immobilizer system. That system is what the chipped keys are for, if the code matches, the computer will let the engine run, if it doesn't match, then it doesn't run. Immo off mode is where the computer doesn't care about the key which is ideal for racing, derby, and similar uses. Next after that is likely going deeper with 98-2002 Honda Accord, or work out my 2002 Honda Civic's engine immobilizer system. This is one of the big things that hold back demo derby drivers from using newer cars.

    I also have plans to build a custom derby computer that's fully tunable, able to have tunes swapped out to run several engines, carb mode, EFI, possibly meth, etc. I have a ton of work before that will be a reality though. Technically, this same computer could run an atv engine, either ignition only, or to convert to EFI if supporting hardware got installed. The computer would probably be overkill for the specs for a single cylinder engine though. Once it's made and if there's interest, I could look into going that route, but bolt on parts probably will be hard to source. I'm probably years out before having something to sell though.

    Anyway, I find this stuff super interesting, I grew up around working on engines, cars, atvs, etc, went to school for computers, made websites, worked as a database admin, and had an interest in circuit level electronics. Pretty much everything lines up perfectly for my life experience and interests for what I'm doing in the derby world. I've recently got into micro controllers a bit and bought a higher end oscilloscope so I can "see" signals and such. I'm getting a lot better idea on the concepts of how the circuit level chips function, by no means an expert at this point.

    I guess I should also mention about the atv market. I've slowed down a lot of atv parts. Every time I check, I find another one of my products copied by some Chinese ebay seller (and often on amazon too). It seems they always go for the best selling products and the business was never growing even though I was always expanding. I even got into selling light bulb kits and now I see them being copied as well. The Chinese competition and their insanely low costs (and product quality) is basically pushing me out of the market. People on ebay generally buy the cheapest part they see, like 95% or more of them so I go from getting $1k in sales on a good product to $50 suddenly, it really is a big demotivator. The derby community has kind of sparked life in my business, instantly I doubled if not tripped the total value of sales. My actual profit is nothing at this point, but I'm very heavily reinvesting into the business expanding it. There's some people copying my products, but no one makes the harnesses completely new or really knows the wiring inside and out quite like I do. I try my best to provide the best support I can, a lot of these derby drivers aren't mechanics, so electrical, engines, and all of that they need extra help with. I actually spend more time with support than I spend building harnesses. Right now, the simplified harnesses I design and build are pretty easy to copy, but the projects I have going will be much harder for someone to copy, and I don't think there's anyone really digging into these computers to disable the security system, or finding solid ways of bypassing them. I suspect once I get to that point, the simplified harnesses might slow down and people would want the modified computers (or aftermarket computer) with a stand alone which should be quite hard to copy I'd think.

    Anyway, I really enjoyed doing the research and such on the atv side of things, I have no plans on killing the atvmanual.com site or anything, but for the time, my focus has been 99% to the derby harness side of things. I guess talking more about future plans, I want to build a polebarn/work shop and if all goes well with the business, eventually hire a helper to focus on the harness building side of things and I can focus a bit more on the "fun" side hacking computers, studying wire diagrams, building & testing tunes, etc.

    Here's a screen shot of my oscillosope I got. This is a 2000 Toyota Avalon v6 key transponder to engine computer communication. The red line on top is the "clock" cycle, green is the data being communicated, and under the green is the hex data as it's deciphered by the program, there's lots of settings that can change the raw data output. I haven't had time to compare the in memory data vs what I recorded to get the settings right. Ultimately that data is the key code from the key and probably some wrapper data that the computer understands and expects. Since this data doesn't change, I could make a micro controller that just repeats this signal to spoof the key but that's not the best solution.

    Talking about micro controllers, I built and coded my own EEPROM reader and writer. It's little projects, but I've been learning a ton about hardware from it doing it right from the ground up and doing everything 100% instead of using pre-made software.




    Anyway, lot of info to dump on people, but that's kind of an update on my life, projects and such. Hopefully it doesn't come across as bragging or anything, that's not how I am, but saying what I'm doing might look a bit like that. I'm still blown away my facebook group almost has 2k members for this little "side project" that became the main focus of my business.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    East of Worcester ma
    --
    1,326
    Nice, great to hear your doing well...Now get yourself your own "derby"car and enter some events, looks like fun.

    shep

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    I have a lot of back problems and bone related issues on both sides of my family, so I figured it would be best to not be a driver.

    I technically have a yard full of derby cars, but they are my test cars for designing harnesses and testing ideas on =).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mexico
    --
    9,003
    I love derbies. It’s the only automotive event I know of where they drop the starting flag and nobody moves.
    It sucks to get old

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