Yes. We know the M is leading and the S is trailing with their dropouts. I have Showa number VM4-003 on a set of trailing sliders/stanchions. These are presumably "S" sliders because you cannot flip them over and keep the brake on the right hand side of the bike (when you're sitting on it). The threaded slider will only interface correctly with the hub/axle in one direction. The hole for the drum stop is blind and located offset to the tube. Sure, the 4 bolt holder side can go either way but to recognize the difference right away you will see the oil drains on the SAME side under the dropouts for the trailing S and the OPPOSITE side for the leading M. This puts the drain in the lowest position when mounted (duh).

Yes. We know the M tree is wider than the S and allows for the taller, wider 25x12" tire/ 9x9" rim used on the M, E and ES.

And mostly Yes. We know all of these trees will interchange in most of their fellow head tubes? This is not 100% confirmed but it appears many of us have swapped some fork out of a hardtail 200 into another one, including the 185. Cuz let's be honest, who's hit something hard, at speed and just wants to make their ride work again?

So now, the nitty gritty: SPRINGS AND TUBES...

I was rebuilding a set of bent forks I got on an ES. Supposedly they were M's. Well, as I said above, not the sliders anyhow. The tree def fits my 25x12 wheel so no confusion there. In part diagrams I notice everything else to be the same except for 2 key items. The longer springs and the tubes. I took a look in the service manuals. Gets even more interesting there. They don't list the actual spring lengths, but rather service limits as to how far they can be crushed until Honda considers them unusable. The limits are different and the limits for the shorter springs (not rebound) suggest even those are different. I'll try to include some pix...

[IMG]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eIfxY6Uz00UUWokLs1U8pALj1ejdwM1n/view?
usp=sharing[/IMG]




I look at my longer springs and they're within spec for an M but way out for an S. About 9 5/8". My tubes measure 15 5/8".

If the bare minimum limit for an M is 8.07" This means you could crush those springs about 1.5 inches more. If the bare minimum for an S is 10.97" this means the springs have been crushed about 1.5 inches already. Both situations seem extreme and not too probable. I mean, it looked like I had normal travel when the trike was together.

Additionally the smaller springs in both sets of mystery forks I have dissected are about 3". If you crushed them to 1.5 inches, they would be mechanically bound and a just a small slug of steel. According to the manual, S forks can be as shrunken as 1.5 inches! Again, not too probable here.


So if anyone has been down these roads, post your experiences and some sizes if you can. I'm really just trying to find out what springs came with what forks.
Maybe find out what rates work better than others?
Maybe find out whether leading or trailing handle better for a trail angle on the 48" wheelbase ES?
Maybe we can make a listing of Showa numbers, see if a pattern emerges?
Lets make a database!