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Thread: '84 Big Red 200 - Water In Engine

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Michigan
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    18

    '84 Big Red 200 - Water In Engine

    I have a 1984 Honda 200es that I use almost exclusively for ice fishing (only other use is to haul deer out of the woods). The machine has never been submerged, but whenever I go through an inch or 2 of water that's sitting on the ice, I am getting water in my oil (it's milky). I have never taken it in water deep enough to touch the wheel rims either. Any thoughts on where the water could be getting into the engine?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Auburn, WA
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    1,237
    How long are you running the engine? In very cold temps if the engine isn't getting up to temp and staying hot for a while you may just be building a ton of condensation in the crankcase.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Michigan
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    18
    I check the oil regularly but I'll have to pay better attention to temps, run time, and whether or not there was any water on the ice. I don't recall having milky oil after every time I used it for ice fishing. Would it be possible for oil to be getting in through the breather tube?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mexico
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    9,003
    What trike kid said would be my first thought, but if not that, are you parked indoors and do you wash the machine with a lawn hose, or let kids wash it? I ask about the lawn hose because while I don’t know much about your particular model, but there are some trikes that have a breather tube located between the air-box and the carburetor that leads directly to the crankcase. If kids were messing around with the hose and filled airbox up with water it could have gotten into your engine.

    Also, is this a one time thing, or have you changed your oil and it’s happening again?
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Michigan
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    18
    This has happened multiple times. I do keep it parked in the garage and I wash it as needed (I keep my stuff pretty clean). I've not inspected the breather tube yet (I need to pull the left side rear plastics off to do so), but I've been wondering if maybe there's a crack in the breather tube and when my tires throw water up it's somehow getting in the breather line and in the crank case. Seems like it might be a bit of a stretch but who knows. Can water get in the crankcase via the breather tube or does it only allow pressure to exit?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Edmond, KS
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    2,531
    The breather tube goes directly from the crankcase to the air box so water could be getting in the engine from that tube.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Arkansas
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    2,196
    Quote Originally Posted by 350for350 View Post
    The breather tube goes directly from the crankcase to the air box
    No it doesn't. The crankcase vent is a completely separate system, as it is with most older off-road only Honda trikes, quads, and dirt bikes.

    https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/ho...ed/air-cleaner


    It's the typical Honda off-road crankcase vent system, with one larger tube from the crankcase to a T, then a smaller line up and another down with a one way valve (duck bill) on the bottom. Parts 1,2, and 3 in the diagram with the other associated bits.

    With the stock setup it may be possible to suck in water through the bottom hose if the one ways valve is bad or missing but it would be especially so if the upper hose is blocked. With both hoses free flowing it'd be unlikely to suck in water even with a bad valve because crankcase air pulsates with piston movement, it doesn't flow just one way or the other. It's still possible any way if something is up with the stock system while riding through shallow water.

    The lower part of the crankcase vent with the valve is near the bottom of the frame. If water is up to that then it's a likely culprit.

    Carbs can suck in water through the drain/overflow vent and the air vent for the flow bowl depending on some things. That will stall out the engine though. Obviously not the issue here.


    Side Note: On-road, or street legal Hondas have used an air/oil separater since at least the 80's that is linked from the crankcase to the air box. To some extent it's an emissions device but has advantages beyond that. The off-road only Hondas from that time and forward have used the atmospheric crankcase vent system.


    The atmospheric system has a T so the light vapors from the crankcase contamination (combustion byproducts) rise up and out the top. The lower hose is basically so heavy things like sludge fall out and away, which means, onto the ground and pollute it. The one way valve is to prevent ingress but allow draining.
    Last edited by ATC King; 01-19-2023 at 10:32 PM.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Michigan
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    18
    ATC, thanks for the input. The engine has never stalled out on me and it runs pretty strong. If replacing the breather tube doesn't fix the issue, any thoughts on what else to check? Would there be any way for water to enter the crankcase via a bad seal on the crankcase? Seems like it'd be blowing (not just leaking) oil somewhere if that was the case, but I'm certainly not a mechanic. I don't really ride it during the summer and I wouldn't ride it in the rain during the summer, so I don't really have a baseline to see if it could be a condensation issue because of starting and stopping in cold weather (often times in single digits or teen temps).

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Arkansas
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    2,196
    Other than you physically checking the crankcase vent lines, there isn't much more anyone can help you. You've got to put hands on it and post your findings.

    If the line is bad somehow and sucking in water spray, that's one possibility. Another is it could be plugged up/pinched and not allowing the light vapors and moisture to escape, which collects in the oil and could be what you're seeing.

    In single digit temps, it could very well just be the engine isn't warming up enough to boil off the moisture, which gets in there through the combustion process. If you're running a oil that's too thick for the temperature, it may take longer for it to heat up (beside taking longer to lube during cold startup) In those temps I certainly wouldn't use any oil heavier than 10-40, but that may even be too thick. You can look in the manual which has a oil weight/temp chart, which may specify to use something lighter when operating below freezing.
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