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Thread: 350x cdi? and other 350x questions.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
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    350x cdi? and other 350x questions.

    I'm going to just post all my new 350x getting it running questions here.
    This 85 350x lost spark according to the previous owner.
    the stator reads 80ohm. depending on which stator it's either good or bad. let's go with good.
    The CDI looks brand new but new from where?
    I went to the manual, it says you need a special tester but went with the chart on checking pin to pin and where it's supposed to get resistance or a reading, there's nothing.
    So the question is, has anyone tested a factory cdi to what's in the manual with a multi meter and come close to what's in the book?

    pulse generator. I'm sure I'm setting the multimeter wrong, ive got 2 motors
    on the 200ohm setting 1 reads 15.7
    the other reads 1.2

    Anyone try the ebay cdi for a 350x? or maybe tje coil, cdi and plug kit? I'm just wanting to get spark off tje machine.
    I did check the wires from the motor to cdi to coil
    I unhooked the switch, kept the ground on the harness

    jim
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Florida
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    1,044
    PS2fixer is the resident wiring guru, send him a message.
    mrc_builds on YouTube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmw...confirmation=1


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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
    --
    1,949
    thanks, I'll message him if there's no spark after I get a new cdi installed. jim
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nevada,MO
    --
    81
    Just remember that the 85X and 86X have different CDI boxes.
    3 Wheelin' and 2 Strokin'

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
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    1,949
    I bought the 6 pin 85 350x ebay cdi. hope it works. jim
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
    --
    1,949
    I noticed that the 135 dollar Rick's cdi even states 85 and 86. are the new ones interchangeable?
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    85 vs 86 350x uses the same connectors and pinouts, in fact it's the same CDI box. You can see both 85 and 86 are listed for the same part number here:

    https://www.partzilla.com/product/ho...7cbed5ce5b88a8

    There are two different stators depending on who manufactured it, which also means the flywheel must match the stator as well as they are physically a slightly different size.

    80 ohms is pretty typical reading for the 85 style (86 sometimes are in 85's though, it's just 85 had the lower ohm's version more commonly).

    pulse generator reading 15 ohms seems about right, you always use the smallest setting possible on a multi meter, so if the expected reading is 20 ohms, you'd use the 200 ohm setting, if you expect to read 250 ohms, you'd use the 2000 ohm setting, the number is the max value it can read and using the smallest one makes the reading the most accurate (internally it's comparing against a resister, so they have to be somewhat similar values, hard to measure 100ohms against a 1 million ohm resister with a 1% tolerance which would vary 10,000 ohms and still be in spec)

    It's possible the aftermarket CDI is junk/chinese, getting a used OEM one might be a good option, if you know someone that has a 350x, see if you can borrow their CDI to test your machine with it. CDI's aren't really great for testing besides swapping a known good unit in. The service manual gives specs but that's using the exact meter that they list so other models likely will read differently since internally it's transistorized and the voltage from the meter making the measurements is what trips them.

    You can also repeat the ohm tests directly at the CDI connector using the wire colors, this tests the harness and connections are good to the components, you might get a very slightly higher ohm reading than directly at them but that's normal. Another test to do at the CDI connector is the black/white wire to green (or any good ground point). It should read no connection (beep mode or put on like 20k ohm range). If it picks up a connection at all, then there's an issue with the wiring or kill switch, but the kill switch design normally fails where you can't turn the machine off, newer machines fail where they won't start (the power for the CDI box routes through them).

    Here's a simplified break down of how the CDI system works (all wire colors are from memory):


    Exciter coil in stator powers the CDI box (high voltage low amps, completely separate from the lighting coil/system) (black/red wire)
    Internally this charges a capacitor and is the "C" in CDI
    The pulse generator sends a pulse from a tag on the fly wheel to tell the CDI to fire
    The CDI dumps the power through the ignition coil on the black/yellow wire to ground (green), once power stops flowing, the magnetic field collapses and high voltage is generated in the windings which ultimately want to go to ground through the plug wire/spark plug

    Black/white wire shorts to ground to kill the engine (it discharges the black/yellow wire to ground instead of going through the coil)
    There might have been a green/white wire from the pulse generator, it's effectively just a ground signal wire and if it has it, it's internally connected to the green wire for frame ground

    An oscilloscope would show you exactly what's going on, but those aren't cheap and probably unlikely to find a mechanic ship that would let you borrow it. There's also an adapter called a peak voltage tester, this could be useful for your diag work, with no CDI hooked up, exciter coil + ground hooked to the meter through the peak voltage tester would give you a reading, on the 85 style stator, I think I was reading around 70-80v at kick starting rpm. Hooking the CDI back up and hooking the peak voltage tester to the output wires for the coil I think was around 60v on my machine. A normal multi meter cannot read this in an accurate way, but you can see if "something" exists if you put it on AC, it should read something, but the number doesn't really mean too much.

    Since the CDI isn't orig, I'd target that first though, the stator, CDI, and ignition coil need to be a matching set effectively, it's a very analog way of doing the ignition system even though the CDI box is somewhat of a fancy electronic device, it's still quite analog too, there's no micro processor/computer inside, but it does process the timing some for spark advancement based on rpm, but it's very minor of my understanding, like 4 different points of advancement.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
    --
    1,949
    thanks for the lesson on the electrical system. looking at the stripped exh studs, missing pin that holds the decompression lever, really makes my question the ability of the previous owner. He had a lot of atvs and for all I know, he just grabbed whatever fit. He was telling me how he didn't know how to remove the goki side cover. jim
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    He for sure doesn't do internal engine work then, side covers just have a group of bolts holding it on and it slides off, have to drain the oil first or it's kind of a mess lol.

    I just checked the first post again, I see you say the last owner said it lost spark, have you validated it yourself? Never trust what someone else says, check things yourself to be sure. Pull the spark plug, put it in the plug wire and set it against the head (with out touching it, it can give ya a nice zap lol), then kick it over. Shouldn't have to kill all that fast to see spark, on my machine with no plug in it, i can sit on the seat and kick it fast enough to see spark and I'm over 6ft tall. If you see spark, then there's different grades of spark, but basically you're expecting white/blue looking spark that's bright and well defined. Yellow/orange means you have weak spark. White/blue doesn't mean 100% you have good spark but it's a whole lot better than no spark.

    If I had my 350x in an easy to get to spot for running it and data logging with my oscilloscope, I'd give more visuals of the signals/powers, probably deeper than most people really need to see, but seeing it sometimes helps things click a little better. I got into demo derby harnesses and the scope has been a great tool for automotive signals, sadly they are very expensive, one I got was $3400 4 channel, and I've already ran into cases where I wished I had the 8 channel one ($6200 lol).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
    --
    1,949
    definetly has no spark. tried a new plug too. I have parts off a 87 350 foreman, swapped the coil no spark. unhooked the switch just ran the black/white? wire to the coil. tried the foreman cdi and no luck. I've got the green wire bolted to a ground. However the motor is basically sitting in the frame with 1 bolt holding it in loosely. could the motor not be grounded properly? jim
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    --
    4,114
    The 350x actually grounds at two points, frame ground ring terminal as well as the stator connector hook ups for the lighting coil.

    Pretty sure the 350 CDI won't work for the quad, a lot of the newer stuff like that are DC powered CDI's and are completely different. There's a bunch of pinout changes and such, CDI's are far from a standard part sadly.

    Another test with the peak voltage tester if you ended up getting one is the pulse generator, the 350x is before they posted specs, but all of the newer atv's I've seen the spec be bare min 0.7v which is the typical forward voltage of a diode, probably gives a hint to how the circuit works.

    Ignition coil should be black/yellow and green, but sun faded harnesses it might look white. Black/white if I'm remembering that color right only runs to the kill switch.

    Engine just sitting in the frame shouldn't be a big deal since the engine is the ultimate ground and the coil should have a good path to ground through the harness still, if you have jumper cables, you could try to jump the engine to the frame or throw a bolt in but doubt it will make a big difference.



    This isn't the best way to test things, but can give an indication of something happening:

    Unplug stator wires, find black/red wire and hook one of your multi meter probes to that, hook the other to ground and put it on AC voltage, probably 200v range and see if it picks up anything while you kick it. I suspect it should register something.

    Same concept at the ignition coil, hook up the probes between the black/yellow and green wires to see if the multi meter indicates anything at all, AC 200v range.

    If you get a reading from the exciter coil, but not at the ignition coil, do the same test at the pulse generator wires down on the engine, should be blue/yellow, other wire is either green or green/white, should be in the same connector if I remember right. If it's easier, could do it directly at the CDI box connector with the stator wires all hooked up.

    This might give some indication what's going on. Is the machine you're working on the one with the 15.7 ohm pulse generator or the one that's super low ohms?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
    --
    1,949
    the pulse generator is the higher reading one in the trike. him
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
    --
    1,949
    okay, 40 volt appx at the stator while kicking it over.
    7 volt ac at the black wire on the coil while kicking it.new ebay stator and coil no spark.
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
    --
    1,949
    pulse gen is now reading 367 ohms
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    az
    --
    1,949
    stator on 2000 ohm reads 1079drop it to the 200ohm and it reads 165.4
    81 185s
    82 185s with 85 200s motor
    suspended 185s
    85 atc70
    1984 200s
    85 350x 3rd owner
    and a 72 ct70

    projects coming along

    85 200s
    81 suspended 185s (can't believe I came across 2)
    1982? 185s

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