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Thread: Atc 4 Me

  1. #46
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Southeastern Wisconsin
    I tell ya Coe, I think if you wrote all this up for a movie you'd have a blockbuster!!!
    By far the Coeshow is the best show in 3WW right now. Thanks for sharing everything with us.
    '02 Honda 416ex - A seasoned blend of 11 herbs and spices
    '04 Honda Recon - The yard machine and snow plow
    '88 Honda CR250R - Another chapter in my torrid all terrain affair

  2. #47
    edog's Avatar
    edog is offline I'm like an Original Gangsta...but a post whore instead. The day begins with 3WW
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    New Hampshire
    All i can say is wow!!!
    You rule man.

  3. #48
    250rAL is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Man, if the internet had been around then, it might have been a different story. It must have been horrible trying to work with all that crap going on. Just one thing I don't get-- why did they want Marty to win so bad? What difference did it make as long as it was a Honda rider?
    '85 ATC250R
    .030 Over Wiseco
    FMF Pipe/Answer silencer
    36PJ Keihin
    Boyesen reeds
    Magura hydraulic clutch
    Roost Boost
    MSR bars
    OMF swingarm skid
    ITP Beadlocks

    Three Wheelin' Since '84

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Back then when I was getting into racing big, my biggest dream was to become a factory rider with all the glory of traveling to all the races and signing autographs and being in the magazines and all. But now, I'm glad nothing like that ever happened. I never knew that stuff like that was going on. I guess it all looks good on the outside but beauty is only skin deep so the saying goes. Mike, I'm mad right with you. That was just totally wrong what they done to you. And the bad thing is that all the kids back then looked up to Marty because he was wearing the number 1 plate and was getting all the glory, when they should have been looking up to you. I was at the Loretta Lynn's race in 85 and I wish I would have come over and shook your hand after the race. At least I would have known now that I shook the hand of the person that I should have been looking up to instead of a lying cheat. We all appreciate this unbelievable information that your telling us Mike. It looks like this has been eating at you for 20 years or so. I bet you feel better now getting it all off your chest. You have got to go to TrikeFest next year and tell all your stories. Heck, nobody will probably even bring their trikes, they'll just be sitting in a big circle all weekend listening to your racing stories.....lol.
    Still looking for a TC dual plug head for a 200X!

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Hey Mike
    ((DON'T BYPASS THE WORD FILTER)) you got the bum deal ....can't believe honda would stoop so low..... why did they want golden balls Hart to win over you? it changes all my childhood memorys of Hart from hero to CHEAT!!!!!
    dude keep the story's coming....this is the best thread EVER on the forum so interesting...
    Last edited by OldSchoolin86; 09-28-2005 at 11:53 AM.

  6. #51
    RichinMO's Avatar
    RichinMO is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Waynesville, MO
    We should petition the AMA to open an investigation and give the true champion his due. That's the craziest stuff I've ever heard of, stole your trailer and then the top-end off your bike?!?!? You had to have an incredible sense of self control if you didn't just start splitting skull around that shop.
    1985 ATC250ES
    1985 ATC250SX
    1984 ATC200S "Little Red" - Trailer hitch, Hondaline: Front and Rear Racks, Cooler Rack, Tripmeter, HL Grille, Rubber Footpeg Covers, Mudflaps.
    1985 ATC70
    2008 CRF230L - Dual Sport
    2016 TRX500 Foreman Rubicon Deluxe

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Brandon, Manitoba
    Wow, I can't believe they did that to you. Do you know where Marty is now? I dont know how he sleeps at night.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Great Stuff CoeShow! I feel for ya.

    Hey, in addition to the internal Honda team strife, I'd like to hear the inside take about the strife between Honda and Kawasaki over the 200cc class. Seems like Kawi used to fuss about Honda's 200R actually being a "works" trike, while the 200 Tecate was a production model that was sleeved down? Did Honda actually have an unfair advantage? Did the 200R technically "bend" the production only rule?

    Any views on that issue?
    1986 Tecate
    1984 Tecate
    1985 Tri-Z
    1986 ATC350X
    1985 ATC250R (2)
    1985 ATC125M (2)
    1982 ATC70 - Original Owner

    175 TriMoto Frame with Pro-Tec Rear Suspension

    3-Wheelin' since '82

  9. #54
    mad_max is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    WOW! ............man Mike it sure sounds like Honda had Hart on a pedestal. Why him?

    You deserve the title.

    I think I'll retract my previous statement about Honda being the best team ever.

    Thanks for setting the record straight!

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Great read Mike. Thankyou very much.

    1980 ATC 70 Needs Restoration
    1985 ATC 250es Fully Refurbed
    1986 ATC 350x Mint Original

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Mud hill. close to water !
    I'd still like to hear about your thoughts on the TIGERS.....

    please ?
    Currently :

    82 ATC - 200, plain jane, almost mint. ( Sold, 03-17-2005)
    84 ATC - 200 ES, Jimmy-Rigged, don't ask.( Sold, 03-17-2005)
    85 ATC - 250 SX, Pride and Joy, Bottom-Less Money Pit.
    84 125 M - The Mini-SX not running yet. but won't be long.

    The more people i meet.. the more i like my DOG !

  12. #57
    Old 179's Avatar
    Old 179 is offline At The Back Of The Pack Arm chair racerAt the back of the pack
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Southwest Indiana
    Dang, wish I done this sooner

    1985 AATVA Marty Hart (Honda) Nationals

    Tacoma, Wa 1-05
    1) Coe 2) J. White 3) Marty Hart 4) Baker 5) Dunlap 6) Luce 7) Parson 8) Neary 9) Anderson 10) Ruppert
    Coe-20points (Based on 1985-AATVA rules and up to 20 rider field.)

    Lake George NY 2-10
    1)J. White 2) Cardinale 3) Coe 4) Mendenhall 5) Edwards 6) Levesque 7) C. White 8) Roatz 10) Waterman 11) Weaver 12) Ouimet NO HART!
    Coe- 33

    Hialeah Fla. 4-06
    1) Hart 2)J. White 3) Gentry 4) Mendenhall 5) Coe 6) Neary 7) Helter 8) Dunlap 9) Page 10) Anderson

    Porterville Ca. 5-25
    1) Hart 2)Mendenhall 3)Finley 4) Coe 5) Gentry 6)C. White 7) Olmsted 8) Luce 9)Savinski
    10) Hunsaker
    Coe -54

    Liberal KS 6-01
    1)Hart 2)Madole 3)J. White 4)Baker 5)Coe 6)Mendenhall 7)Nevil 8)Luce 9)Finley 10) Farrier

    Boyd Tx 6-22
    1)Mendenhall 2)Baker 3)Berry 4)Coe 5)Gentry 6)Finley 7)J. White 8)Farrier 9)Madole 10)Crews NO HART!
    Coe 75
    Hart 73

    Little Valley NY 7-06/07
    1)J, White 2)Mendenhall 3)Nevil 4)Page 5)Weaver 6)Hart 7)Coe 8)Baker 9)Ruple 10)Trey
    Coe -83

    Columbus OH
    1)Hart 2)J. White 3)Coe 4)Gentry 5)Mendenhall

    Hurricane Mills Tn 8-31, 9-01
    1)Coe (2-1) 2)Hart (1-2) 3) J. White (3-3) 4)Trey (4-4) 5)Nevil (8-5) 6)Luce (7-6) 7)Mailloux
    8)Holbert (13-7) 9)Weaver (11-10) 10)Sulzberger (10-11)
    Hart 118
    Coe 115

    H.S. ( DirtWheels , ATV News , 3Wheeler mentions this controversy)
    1)Luce 2)Hart 3)Coe 4)Trey 5)Mailloux 6) Patton 7)Gentry 8)Weaver 9)Jones 10)Fox
    Hart 134*
    Coe 128

    Colorado Springs Co 9-14/15
    1)Coe 2)J. White 3)Hart 4)Gentry 5)Nevil 6)Luce 7)Finley 8)Farrier 9)Matthews 10)Patton
    Coe 148
    Hart 147*

    San Jose Ca 10-05
    1)Hart 2) Finley 3)Coe 4)C. White 5)Sanders 6)Weaver 7)Luce 8)Burman 9)Nevil 10)Conover
    Hart 167*
    Coe 161

    Final 1985 AATVA Grand National Championship Series (11-28-85 ATV News)

    Hart 145
    White 130
    Coe 121
    Mendendall 93
    Luce 69

    Does't add up, Does it????????????????????????

    Source from ATV News except Columbus results (3Wheeler)
    Running points based on up to 20 rider field by myself
    * represents hare scrambles controversy points

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Eastvale, CA
    Welcome to the board Mike, I've been a long time fan of your's and all the rest of the Team Honda guys from back in the day (not so much a Hart fan anymore though). And to think that someone questioned your authenticity of you being who you say you are. Just reading your stories confirms it as no one could make up this kind of stuff even if they tried. Maybe the "San Jose Slide Show" as Dirt Wheels called it should have been called the "San Jose Points Circus"!

    Now a question for you; When did you last race 3 wheelers? It seems I recall seeing you race or test as a privateer on a 3 wheeler at Glen Helen, CA back in '87-'89 before the AMA dismantled the 3 wheel classes altogether. It wasn't a sanctioned race, just a typical Sunday CRC race.
    Current Ride (Purchased new in Oct. 84) - 1985 Honda ATC 250R w/ ESR 310cc big bore kit
    Wife's Ride - 2009 Polaris RZR 800
    Kid's Rides - 2009 Yamaha Raptor 700, 2008 Yamaha Raptor 250
    Former Rides - 1975 Honda XR 75, 1979 Yamaha IT 175, 1978 Honda ATC 90, 1980 Honda ATC 110

    got sand?

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    San Diego

    1985 season in review

    Hey everybody,

    Marty DNF'd at least 2 races and SHOULD have been DQ'd at the woods race.

    But understand me on this!

    I have no ill feelings toward Marty Hart!!. He was/is a talented rider. Put yourself in his position. Everyone at Honda was bending over backward for him. It must have felt quite good at the time.

    It all started in 1984 when Wes McCoy (team ATC manager) hired Paul Turner to develop the engines for the team, and also FORMER motocross team mechanic Steve Carter to be the mechanic for Marty and myself. No team riders had ever had a mechanic before. We all had to wrench on our trikes ourselves. I did, Dean did, everybody did.

    Marty hadn't yet earned the sponsors and top engine tuner deals that the rest of the team members had. While he was getting some support from 3B Lightning Products (one of my original tuners) Marty had didn't have quite the support as some of the Team Honda riders. He instantly fell into favor with Paul and Steve. The stage was set! They became their own team!

    At the start of the 85 season, Honda Mangement laid down this law.

    You must abandon ALL sponsors to be eligable to sign a contract allowing you to ride for Honda.

    THIS WAS CRAZY! I and most other racers then and now have a working relationship that benefits the sport. I had many long term sponsors that I had to go to and say, " I'm sorry, but I can't endorse your product anymore" Think about that! NO OUTSIDE SPONSORS! HONDALINE PRODUCTS ONLY. From apparel to oils to tires to engines, everything. This never sat well with me. Many folks compared me to Bob Hannah for always speaking my mind no matter the circumstances. This outspoken way of mine likely put me in poor favor with management because I called it as I saw it! There was NO team at Team Honda during the 1985 season. I was doomed from the start. Even though I was winning some of the races, Marty HAD to win the championship at all costs, simple as that. Was I getting inferior performance parts from Paul Turner? You bet!

    I did not want to lose any of my sponsors and felt that without their support in the previous years, my success at the races would have been less. I felt that I OWED THEM! It has been one of the hardest things I have ever done to this day. But for Marty it worked out perfectly. He didn't have as much support until the 1985 season. Now he had ALL of the support and then some. So, can you blame HIM? No.

    I think Honda would have found an excuse to fire me except that some how aginst all their internal, mechanical, AND psychological efforts, I was somehow still winning and finishing well at the races. It was frustrating them as much as they were frustrating me. And with Marty's sometimes poor results, I believe they needed me as a saftey net just in case.

    My resistance and "outspokeness" towards this arrangement is what led to much of the focus toward Marty. I never felt that what they were doing was right, and it was by no means a TEAM EFFORT. Curtis Sparks also felt as I did. Honda (Bruce Ogilvy) treated Curtis poorly during the 1985 season as well.

    I actually did an interview with Tom "Wolfman" Webb who was writing for Dirtwheels magazine at the time. Honda Management got ahold of the draft prior to it going to print, and informed Tom that if the interview went to print, I would be FIRED INSTANTLY! Well, I wanted to race and Tom pulled the plug on the interview. I would love to have him print it now!! It was basically what I have been telling you all now.

    Honda's attempt at molding a "team" was to make it more like a baseball team. Honda management wanted the MACHINE to be in the limelight , NOT the RIDER. They wanted to make us all be seen and not heard. If some one got out of line (like me) they could be replaced like on a baseball team. Everyone looks the same, runs the same stuff, and its all about Honda, nothing else. The riders names change, but hopefully the results remain the same. HONDA WINS! This might also mean NO GIANT SALARIES FOR THE RIDERS!

    Secondly, the Paul Turner stuff I was getting was slow and IMHO, Steve Carter didn't know much about 3 wheelers or tuning.. My bikes ran like crap and it soon became evident to me that I was a better tuner than Steve, and I told him so. Our relationship was strained from the beginning and he went to management and proclaimed he was only going to wrench for Marty. This all went down ugly as Marty lost his fuel tank at a Micky Thompson race. Steve proclaimed wrenching for 2 riders was too much and that he ONLY wanted to work with Marty. Hey, this was fine by me! Honda "borrowed" Chuck Miller to be my mechanic and Chuck was/is awesome. He also knew we were getting the shaft as far as performance parts went. He was also in the prime of his racing career and it was difficult for him to split time to wrench for me and still be competitive in his own racing. He still did an amazing job.

    At the races in 1985, Marty was suffering from too many poor finishes to win the title.
    His tank flew off at one race (DNF), and I think his radiator hose came lose at another race(DNF) and then the woods race. He was still winning too though. He was good everywhere, but seemed to excell on the flat tracks.

    Again, Marty was/is an excellent rider. But a lot of luck is necessary sometimes as well, and he was having some bad luck in 85. Honda was determined that Marty was going to be champion no matter what because I guess he was their "yes man" and I was still bucking the so called
    "Honda only system".

    So they changed the points system at least twice so that he would ultimately become the points champion. Like I said, The AMA will inform you that they have NO record of the 1985 race points system, and the employees at the AMA seem to really not want to be helpful when asking for data on that series.

    Last edited by CoeShow; 11-04-2010 at 11:38 PM. Reason: updates

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    San Diego
    Mr Sandman,

    I never raced or rode a 3 wheeler after the 1985 Baja 1000 in November 1985. By early 1986 the writing was on the wall that 3 wheeler racing was on the way out and that quads were to be the "only" race in town.

    Since I still felt that I was in the prime of my racing career, I did what I felt was necessary and started racing a Suzuki LT250 for DG Performance and all of my previous sponsors were there to help me out again. I can tell you that racing was FUN again!!

    Suzuki initially made a huge effort to race the quads, but it only lasted for a single season. I won many races on my Suzuki! Gary Denton and other quad riders had some epic battles. Gary Denton, like Jimmy White, was a master of the start.

    By late 1986, Yamaha contracted me to race the soon to be released Banshee at the Baja 1000. Team Yamaha went 1-2 in that race. Yamaha continued to support my racing endeavors through the 1988 race season. I believe I was the last, full Factory sponsored ATV Racer at the time.

    Yamaha Motor Corporation was by far the nicest, most professional team I ever worked for hands down. Keith McCarty, you are still the man. Honda sure could learn some lessons from you!

    BUT, my favorite ATV of all was my last short course 1986 Honda ATC 250R! Or was it my Pikes Peak winning Banshee??
    Last edited by CoeShow; 11-04-2010 at 11:42 PM. Reason: updated

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