Atc 4 Me

[3WW Star-CoeShow]

BigAir660,

I don't recall any of the particular engine dimensions (bore x stroke) I don't know if Honda built the engine specifically for the trike or if the engine was originally from another model. It was water-cooled.

The trikes weighed in at @200 lbs! That was VERY light! The engines were very powerful, and the trikes were nearly as fast as our race 250's. The suspension wasn't the longest or biggest. As I recall, similar to what the 200x's had.

I have seen some pictures of them here on this site. Look at the vintage race stuff from the home page. One of the coolest features was the swingarm. It was aluminum and both the sprocket and brake disc were mounted "inboard" of the axle bearings / mounts rather than "outboard" like the 250 and all other 3 and 4 wheelers.

I believe this design allows the swingarm to be stronger than other designs

[BigAir660R]

sweet, 200lbs thats crazy. Thanks for the info

[mad_max]

You gotta love this! Thanks for the info Mike!

[NOS_350X]

BigAir660,
. It was aluminum and both the sprocket and brake disc were mounted "inboard" of the axle bearings / mounts rather than "outboard" like the 250 and all other 3 and 4 wheelers.

I believe this design allows the swingarm to be stronger than other designs

Are you saying it was a dirtbike style swinger with the sproket and roter where the wheel would be? If thats the case would the engine have to be specialy modified to have the sproket closer twards the center of the engine?
Do you know why they wouldnt do this for the 250R?

[Curtis-Tecate3]

Mike, Thanks again for your participation on this board.

Regarding the Factory 200R.
I attended the infamous Hialeah, FL National in 1985 that everyone hated. The 200R that Honda brought to that race had a conventional swingarm unless my eyes deceived me. See the photos on top of this attached page. Sorry for the quality but it was late at night with a crummy old disc camera.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/race.shtml

I also seem to remember that the motor had a "sand cast" finish which would indicate a very limited hand made engine. Some people think that the motor came from some euro dual purpose 2 wheeler but I remember differently. I may be wrong with 20 year old memories though.

Curtis.

[firefirefire90]

I saw a couple of runcan racing 3wheelers, one was using a westcoast. And for the swinger set up, everything looks normal. All the sprockets and such! Maybe i am wrong but those are nice looking macines.

[3WW Star-CoeShow]

Curtis-Tecate,

Some of those pictures are of 125cc race trikes, using alot of 200X parts. The "real" ATC200R's had red tanks and white radiator shrouds. A few of those pics posted are of the 200R's. In those few, you really can't see the rear axle set-up.

You are right about Hialea..... That was one of the worst races I ever attended. Every turn was a 180, or hairpin. A "no-passing" track layout all the way.

Unfortunately, a lot of the flat tracks used for ATV racing even today are this way.

The guy who gets the best start can usually win simply because he can't be passed!! How do you pass when every single turn is a hairpin??

[Billy Golightly]

Mike, did you guys ever use any CR250 parts on the 250Rs? Like ignition componets, engine parts, ect?

[3WW Star-CoeShow]

Honda ATC,

Many of the parts were interchangable between the CR's and ATC's but we never really used any of the CR stuff other than the exhaust silencer.

I did run a CR cylinder on my race bike once. It worked great until Paul Turner ported it. After he "fixed it", it never ran as well as it did when it was stock (the cylinder). I think the cylinder was from the 1984 model CR. It had 7 head nuts instead of 6. The water cooling design wasn't quite as reliable as the newer models, but the newer ones wouldn't "bolt on". Honda altered the cylinder base bolt pattern slightly. Just enough to keep engine parts from interchanging any more.

[Billy Golightly]

Mike, I did a little research on the 84 model CR250's and found that they had the powervalve setup on them. It looks like it bolted onto the outside of the exhaust port on the cylinder. (http://www.scooterhelp.com/moto.barr...50.84_5.sm.jpg) Did you just remove the external powervalve and use a normal 250R exhaust flange or was there another process to it? This would be a pretty cool mod to do on an R.

Billy

[3WW Star-CoeShow]

HondaATC,

The "powervalve" or "ATAC" system if I remember correctly, was a chamber located on the left side of the cylinder. The system did not operate as designed for the CR, but the cylinder was still a giant improvement over the stock ATC cylinder and anything I was getting from Paul Turner at that time.

Like I mentioned in the previous post, Paul "ported" the cylinder and it made LESS power! Steve Carter then reassembled the top end using ATC rings which were chrome against this cylinder which was also chrome plated or nikasil. It self destructed during a National at Liberal Kansas in 1985.

If these cylinders are run "as is" the port timing is very good. They do not need to be modified if the correct pipe is used. This set-up was very fast when I originally used it.

NOS_350X,

I never looked at it like you mentioned, but yes, the ATC200R's rear axle arrangement was very similar to how a motorcycle rear wheel is designed.

But even the motorcycle doesn't have to have the countersprocket located anywhere different. Kawasaki's and Yamaha 3 wheeler engines will interchange with their motorcycle counterparts. In fact, Kawasaki 500 and YZ 490-500 engines use the same motor mount sizes and locations so these engines will "bolt in."

I feel if the 3 wheeler era didn't come to the demise that it did, Honda would have brought this design to market on the 250's. The ATC200R was really a "works" 3 wheeler! No question about it! There were a number of re-designed and improved elements on these trikes that no doubt would have trickled down to the production 3 wheelers in the next year or so "if" they hadn't been banned......

Should this thread be moved to Trikesylvania??

[Howdy]

Should this thread be moved to Trikesylvania??

Good point, I think it should be moved. And I can / will do that for ya.

While I haven't replied until now, I have been watching and reading this thread. I ( and many others ) are honored to have you here and for all the details you have brought forth. Other than owning a few Polaris 3 wheelers I'm not a 2 stoke person. But I still find your information VERY interesting. I love to learn new Old tricks and information. Keep up the good work!!
Howdy

[ScottZJ]

Mike,
You have truely made one killer thread to read. Its great seeing old school racers that dont mind talking to some wanna b's haha.
Did you grow up in San Diego area? I lived near Westminster and grew up there. Although I wasnt really big into 3 wheelers back (I skated for G&S back then), I do remember a time before once race, they had Curtis Sparks and a few others out in front of the huge honda trailer signing autographs. I think this was around 1984 or so. I do remember them trying to push Curtis in the lime light and shy away from the other racers.
If your kids wanted to ride 3 wheelers now, would you encourage this? Thanks for all the great info and just wish we had some pics. I know back in the days, cameras werent something that everyone always had, so I understand not having tons of pics....................peace

Scott

[edog]

CoeShow,do you have any pics of you,and Curtis Sparks on your machines?

[3WW Star-CoeShow]

Edog,

Most all of the pictures I have were cut out of magazines by me, my family, or friends. I have a couple of good sized photo albums with many pictures, but no way yet to scan them and link them to this site.

I do have a couple of Curtis and I. One is of us accepting a 1st place trophy after the Parker 400 off-road race, and another of me punishing him (kidding) during a 200 race!

ScottZJ,

Thanks for your kind post. All 3 of my kids have ridden 3 wheelers. They all enjoyed an ATC70 during their formative years. They have all moved up to bigger and better things now... Like I mentioned above, I do have some cool photos, just no way to load them yet.........

Howdy,

I am having a blast here on 3 wheeler world...........

Keep on with the questions......... I am looking forward to them.

Mike