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Thread: 85/86 250R oil mix ratio 20:1 or are you running something different?

  1. #16
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    Also to much oil and it can get trapped between the rings and over heat and burst the rings.This post and my other post are my 2 cents.
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  2. #17
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    85/86 250R oil mix ratio 20:1 or are you running something different?

    Quote Originally Posted by yaegerb View Post
    This doesn’t even make sense. When did we change the subject to 4 stroke oil?
    In the 80's and earlier it was not uncommon for people to run straight 30 weight or 10w30 as pre-mix oil.
    Last edited by fabiodriven; 06-06-2018 at 01:16 PM.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug8765 View Post
    I had my engine builder tell me 20:1 i said why.. he said do you dyno these motors and then measure the piston / rings i said no. Then use 20:1


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    That's a generic non-answer. I hate when ppl say stuff like "because I said so"...tell him to cough up the facts. "Because I dyno stuff and you don't" doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Someone with real knowledge will explain why and unless he asked you what engine size/type , Make and model, fuel octane, style of riding, etc then he's probably already wrong with that generic answer.

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    Last edited by ironchop; 06-06-2018 at 03:45 PM.

  4. #19
    Arky-X is offline Just Too Addicted Arm chair racerJust too addicted
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaegerb View Post
    This doesn’t even make sense. When did we change the subject to 4 stroke oil?
    Well ain't I the idiot?
    I rode with 2 guys back in the day that had 2 strokes and one only used 30W in his 250R and I have no idea what the other used in his Quadzilla. I never questioned any of it because all I ever had was a 4 stroke.

    Since the only 2 strokes I've ever owned are a chainsaw and a weedeater, I will just hang-up and listen on this thread. I will admit when I have a brainfart.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabiodriven View Post
    No Einstein. Fuel cools, oil lubes. If you take away more fuel your engine could potentially run hotter, and heat is the enemy.
    ..
    Yup more oil equals less gas. Less gas equals lean conditions. Lean conditions equals more heat.

    The volume of fuel/oil moving thru your jets is constant at any given throttle opening unless you rejet but when you put more oil in the exact same volume, you end up with less gas in the same volume

    That's why when you change premix ratios, you sometimes need to rejet



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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arky-X View Post
    Well ain't I the idiot?
    I rode with 2 guys back in the day that had 2 strokes and one only used 30W in his 250R and I have no idea what the other used in his Quadzilla. I never questioned any of it because all I ever had was a 4 stroke.

    Since the only 2 strokes I've ever owned are a chainsaw and a weedeater, I will just hang-up and listen on this thread. I will admit when I have a brainfart.
    No you're on point Arky. A lot of people were running motor oil as pre-mix back in the day, it's not at all unheard of.
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  7. #22
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    Yeah I've heard of ppl using 30W car oil back then as well but a service tech at our local yammy dealership when I was a teen told me not to because motor oil has particulates in it when it burns that gets leftover to help scratch and wear out rings and stuff. I've seen four strokes that burnt alot of oil looking like someone threw oily sand inside the cylinder and my valve stems were scratched too as well as the cylinder walls and piston. This has been the case more than once when I cracked open an unknown motor that burnt alot of oil. I'm not certain if that's what the case was but it was the one common denominator. No metal shavings in the oil but lots of oily carbon chunks everywhere in the cylinder

    I'm not sure if he was full of crap or he just wanted me to buy more expensive Spectro from him but I bought the oil that was designed to burn instead (Spectro)

    Maybe it's because Brendon is younger than us and so he only knows about the period after The Awakening, when we quit being cheap and lazy...that's why Arky's reply sounded like absolute gibberish to him. With today's premix oil tech, it is frowned upon to use car motor oil since we moved away from that thanks to education and better products. I'm sure no offense to Arky. Perhaps if he said 'WTF?!?!' instead

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  8. #23
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    My dad always used 10w30 or 10w40 in his chainsaws both in the gas and for the bar.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabiodriven View Post
    In the 80's and earlier it was not uncommon for people to run straight 30 weight or 10w30 as pre-mix oil.
    I have honestly never heard of this before. My aplogies to arky-x for the lack of insight.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by atc300r View Post
    I run my 3 250rs and 300r on 32:1. with Amsoil dominator mixed with 91 non ethol gas.Amsoil,and some of the popular oils for 2 strokes have been around since the 70s.Klotz has been around for about 60 years.If you are using 86 octane gas with ethol go with 20:1.My local Honda Dealers back in the day recommended Castrol oil .Back in the 80s 2 of my uncles ran their 250rs on 84:1 with Amsoil they used the type that could be mixed at 100:1.They never had any issues and we rode every weekend.
    im glad you mentioned octane and ethanol. Unfortunately, I can’t find ethanol free in metro St. Louis, and sometimes premium is only 89 octane.

  11. #26
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    Great discussion so far in this thread. Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.

  12. #27
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    Look for a Fuel distributor in your area...Home fuel Oil, Truck and Race fueling business. No corner gas station it's going to take some looking around. Next time you see a car show, stop in and ask some vintage car guys...bet there is a spot not far out of the way.
    Take it for what it is: My motor builder Minton Cycles and I talked about this subject over my sons 16'CX65 which had a full respring/National Race Prep done on it. He said Cobra actually tested non eth to pump gas and fresh eth pump gas makes better compression in their machine with a full synthetic BelRay blend.
    Last edited by Tri-Z 250; 06-07-2018 at 01:26 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbtiger View Post
    im glad you mentioned octane and ethanol. Unfortunately, I can’t find ethanol free in metro St. Louis, and sometimes premium is only 89 octane.
    The internet will give you local stations that sell ethanol free gas. Type in something like buy real gas. A guy i know thought that when he bought 93 oct it was ethanol free, boy was he surprised when he found out that it was ethanol gas.

  14. #29
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    My .02

    This is IMO one of the better oil ratio excerpts written.
    http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm

    If you want the cliff notes, oil ratio is a function of RPM. High, sustained revs require a larger ratio of oil to gas (20-25:1) whereas inconsistent RPMs or on average, lower RPM engines can get away with less oil to gas ratio (30-40:1).

    IMO, Honda was playing it safe thinking that your everyday joe may/could be revving it to the moon during the life of the motor and they wanted to ensure the crank bearings stayed happy. This is a good thought but at 20:1 and as Fabio said earlier you are loosing a cooling effect because by its very nature gas is a coolant for your motor, moreso the higher in octane you go. So remember, more oil means less molecules of gas which equals less cooling for your motor. It’s all a delicate balance but goes right back to RPM.

    If you are a sand duner or road racer, better start investing in (insert your favorite oil company here). If you are the weekend warrior on trails or just like to play around then 30-40:1 may be more your speed.

    I cut the difference and run Klotz beanol at 36:1
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbtiger View Post
    im glad you mentioned octane and ethanol. Unfortunately, I can’t find ethanol free in metro St. Louis, and sometimes premium is only 89 octane.
    Exxon at Clayton and Baxter in chesterfield sells 93 no ethanol, or at least they did when I lived there. You may want to check it out
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