2 strokes

[bittner5454]

i was just in class and me and this kid were talking...he has a trx450r and i was talking about a 250r atc...he said two strokes are stupid and all this other sh*t saying if you go too fast you can blow it right up...fourstrokes are better you just hold the gas and go dont have to worry about anything...this actually turned into a heated argument lol....whats the deal though?? you cant just blow up a 2 stroke that easy can you??

[200XMichigan]

I would think neither a two stroke or 4 stroke wants to be run at redline for a long time. Neither one is just going to blow up for some unknown reason. I think the real reason so many people have top end problems with two strokes is owner error, wrong mixes or just being stupid. Cuz people that take care of their two strokes have them last a long time.

[inv3ctiv3]

2-strokes CAN be more prone to having problems then 4-strokes and any 2-stroke guy can tell you if you don't maintain it and keep the proper mix it could blow up. It's funny how serious people take the whole 2-stroke vs 4-stroke thing. Just ride what you like.

[taiterator]

It's funny how serious people take the whole 2-stroke vs 4-stroke thing. Just ride what you like.

You said it !!!!

[fabiodriven]

I used to think the two strokes were more prone to problems when I was younger but as I grew up and got my own, I soon realized it just comes down to proper maintenance. Two stroke engines are no more prone to explode than their four stroke counter parts. Either one can have problems if they are not properly maintained. I think the reason two strokes get a bad rap is because they were traditionally the more performance oriented of the two, thus they tend to get beat on more and develop more problems. Now that I have my own two strokes I know that they are no less dependable than the four strokes. My Tecate 250 has had the same top end in it all of the five years I have owned it and anybody who rides with me will tell you that I am in no way easy on it. It does have a Wiseco piston, but it's still on the original Nikasil liner from 1985. Good oil, the right jetting, and a clean air filter are the most important things.

[DixiePlowboy]

My (bought new) '86 Tri-Z gave me 0-problems from 1987 when I bought it, until 1991 when I finally fouled a plug....lol. And I rode it pretty hard for years. 2-years after that, the original rings needed replacing, so i think they can be very reliable.

[Vealmonkey]

I personally think jetting is way more critical than the mix. When it gets cold out and your riding your 2 stroke, You better have fattened that main jet up some. A member or 2 on here learns that lesson every year. I also find that an owner really serious about their machine, wether it's 2 stroke or 4 stroke takes the time to find out about their own machines strengths and weaknesses. And most owners have found out the hard way on certain machines also. Hi altitudes, very hot temperatures and very cold temperatures each brings their own special set of tuning perameters. And then some people just ride harder than other. But it pays to take care of your machine and perform the proper maintenance.

[200XMichigan]

I think the guy in your class doesn't really know much about engines if he think he can just hold a 4 stroke wide open "and not worry about anything". Probably blew up a two stoke sometime, thought "these suck", probably will blow up his 4 stroke. "hold the gas and go, dont have to worry about anything" Seems like anything would blow up with that mentality. And really the two stroke is more designed for high RPM, while the 4 stoke offers more torque. I think the kid in your class is retarded.

2 strokes and 4 strokes are great in their own way and I'm sure he'd find a way to blow them both up.

[leviblue]

It's the rider. Some are just lazy and don't wanna take the time to learn their bike.The mix and up keep scarces most riders today cuz it's easier to just gas and go with a 4 stroke. For long rides the 4 is the way to go but if I wanna have fun my 2 strokes are it. SNAPY SNAPY....Bit when you get your R ask him to run you in drag and he'll find out how BAD his 450 is. Bring him up to my house and we'll change his mind....I'm not agianst 4 strokes just the lazy owners who run their lips when they've never owned or ridden one

[shortline10]

I remember back in the 80s:D I had a decal on my atc 185s that said 4 strokes truck & 2 strokes suck :naughty:LOL
But seriously its all about maintenance but your buddy is aloud to have his own opinion :rolleyes: .

[fabiodriven]

I personally think jetting is way more critical than the mix. When it gets cold out and your riding your 2 stroke, You better have fattened that main jet up some. A member or 2 on here learns that lesson every year.

I just got through having that very discussion with a fellow board member. He says that he doesn't know anybody that fattens up their jetting in the cold. I personally don't know anybody who doesn't. If you don't fatten it up, it will blow.

[jmack3986]

I got into a argument last night Over the 250R quad V.s the 4 strokes of today. The guy who was saying that the 250R's look fast but are really slow. I mentioned to him how a 2 stroke per CC produces 33% more hp then the four stoke counter part and is half the cost to maintain. A bone stoke 250R against a bone stock 450 will loose evertime due to the extremely mild porting on 250R's but you port the cylinder change the carb and put on a aftermarket exhaust and the HP is higher then that of a 450 with cams and exhaust. If you look at the racing Scene for ATV todays there are production classes which rule out the 250R because of how competitive the 20+ year old machine is not to mention the list of aftermarket upgrades there are. Look at Dirtbike classes all the pros are riding 450's now and because of that everyone jumps on the band wagon and runs there mouth about how 2 strokes are slower. A 2 stroke motor was designed for huge horsepower and torque. It was designed for racing. The new 4 Strokes have to be rebuilt just as much as 2 strokes and are heavier and lack power as compared to the 2 stroke. That kid didn't know what he was talking about.

[bittner5454]

man oh man look what i started :) hahahah levi when i do get it your gonna have to talk to me about fattening up my jets and all that good stuff so I DONT BLOW IT UP ahaha :naughty:

[Trimotomike]

Ive seen a bone stock 86 atc250r whipe the floor with a o6 trx450r that was piped , jetted and had a cherry bomb module on it . The guy was pissed and kept wanting to redo the race because he "didnt get a good start". lol 7 races later with each race ending with the same outcome he shut his mouth . very funny not to mention the 250r was pretty beat up and tired looking and 3 of the races he let the quad get a jump then he'd wheelie by him in 3rd and 4th then he was gone .

[ATC-Eric]

For the most part, you cant just hold a 2 stroke WIDE open for long periods of time. At some point the motor will rev past the point of fuel being able to keep up. This creates a lean mixture, and will melt it down. And Im talking ALLLLLL the way open. The motor will just keep right on going.

There are bikes like the Banshees that are equiped with rev limiters to eliminate the problem for riders without this knowledge. For the most part, dont just hold them WFU. Variate!

[yammer hammer]

Dont feel alone got into a heated arguemnet with someone of cars today myself lol! and no 2 strokes arent any different than four strokes, as long as you maintain a 2 stroke and drive it normorlly it will last as long or longer than a 4, its all about the rider, i dont know how many kids i have told this, they dont realize you cant hold it on the bar forever, or it will blow the piston, but again its all about the rider and his skills. Usually a 2 stroke is for a more advanced rider.

[factoryX]

this will answer you questions:
cr500af vs. crf450r
http://twostrokemotocross.com/video-archives/old-site-weapons/

If they simply updated the cr500 it turns into quite the mx machine.

[Michwolv60]

tell him to redline his all he wants, when he drops a valve into the cylinder he will rethink his theory.

[beets442]

I like 2's a little better than 4's. 2 stokes to me are easier to work on, power comes on right now and can be more adjustable.
As for 4's they are can be a little more reliable/less maintenance but power curve is up there.They both have there own places. 2 stokes for the hole shot and 4's for topend.
A person who rides a 2 stroke and can keep one running good has my vote:cool:...Good luck ..Beets

[audioworks04]

The modern day 4 strokes are actually much higher maintance than 2 strokes. They are also less reliable and in general do not last aslong. I love my 450, but its way way more expensive to upkeep than my 250r.
My 250r I run 40:1 with ams oil interceptor and change my gear lube about every 10 hours of ride time.
On my 450 I have to run 110 octane (due to a 14:1 piston) change the oil in the tranny and engine and filter every 2.5 hours of ride time. Every 10 hours I have to check valves, and if they are out of spec then I have to use the $80 shim kit that is required to adjust them, and can take 20 minutes to 3 hours to do, all depends on how lucky you get with guess and check (the online calculators and charts never seem to work out for me).
The 450 is like a tractor and I can put put up a dune in 3rd gear and still wheelie off the top if I feel the need, but on the 2 stroke it takes A LITTLE more thought actually shift(normally up) and to use the clutch.
In my expirence most people that are totally against 2 strokes just dont know how to ride them. My buddy was a hardcore 4 stoke guy til he met me and saw what a 250 can do, and now he owns a banshee....to each their own, but there is no reason to trash either one they are both great machines. If it came down to it and I had to sell something my 450 would go way before my R.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Well, maybe this will help put things in perspective. pulled this out of the march 2010 dirt wheels. (for the record, i'm a 2 stroke fan)

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm270/73transamsd/2stroke%20vs%204stroke/2%20v%204/IMG_0001.jpg?t=1265791003
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm270/73transamsd/2stroke%20vs%204stroke/2%20v%204/IMG_0002.jpg?t=1265791207
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm270/73transamsd/2stroke%20vs%204stroke/2%20v%204/IMG.jpg?t=1265791242
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm270/73transamsd/2stroke%20vs%204stroke/2%20v%204/IMG_0003.jpg?t=1265791279
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm270/73transamsd/2stroke%20vs%204stroke/2%20v%204/IMG_0004.jpg?t=1265791314
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm270/73transamsd/2stroke%20vs%204stroke/2%20v%204/IMG_0005.jpg?t=1265791348

[factoryX]

The modern day 4 strokes are actually much higher maintance than 2 strokes. They are also less reliable and in general do not last aslong. I love my 450, but its way way more expensive to upkeep than my 250r.
My 250r I run 40:1 with ams oil interceptor and change my gear lube about every 10 hours of ride time.
On my 450 I have to run 110 octane (due to a 14:1 piston) change the oil in the tranny and engine and filter every 2.5 hours of ride time. Every 10 hours I have to check valves, and if they are out of spec then I have to use the $80 shim kit that is required to adjust them, and can take 20 minutes to 3 hours to do, all depends on how lucky you get with guess and check (the online calculators and charts never seem to work out for me).
The 450 is like a tractor and I can put put up a dune in 3rd gear and still wheelie off the top if I feel the need, but on the 2 stroke it takes A LITTLE more thought actually shift(normally up) and to use the clutch.
In my expirence most people that are totally against 2 strokes just dont know how to ride them. My buddy was a hardcore 4 stoke guy til he met me and saw what a 250 can do, and now he owns a banshee....to each their own, but there is no reason to trash either one they are both great machines. If it came down to it and I had to sell something my 450 would go way before my R.

Very cool to see someone with both 2 stroke and high tech 4 stroke give there opinion.

That article is very flawed.
1. it does not choose which bike is better.
2. What mods are done to both bikes? cause they aren't stock.
3. is that a 89? note that you cannot see the rear motor mount.

[code200k]

Very cool to see someone with both 2 stroke and high tech 4 stroke give there opinion.

That article is very flawed.
1. it does not choose which bike is better.
2. What mods are done to both bikes? cause they aren't stock.
3. is that a 89? note that you cannot see the rear motor mount.

it says what mods are done too each bike in the article.

[fabiodriven]

Nice scan Hoosier.

factoryX makes a very good point. They did compare the two to some extent, but I wish they would have gotten a bit more specific about which one excelled in what areas.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I agree with you guys about the article but it is the best comparison we have available for now so i figured i'd post it. Glad you guys enjoyed it.

[Thorpe]

I think that the 2 strokes have their place, and the 4 strokes have their place... Up to the rider to decide where those places are... I will quote my grandfather back in the days of when he had his car dealership... "Well... you know what? There is an ass, for every seat..." Perfect words for this topic I think... Granted he was probably talking about a Nash or an Internatonal Scout or something obscure, but you get the point.

[factoryX]

how ever its impossible to say something is better. But for people to single them out and say that 2 strokes suck just bugs me. Look at the new Maico m-mx700! 72hp stock! and it only weighs 220.6lbs!

[300rman]

anyone that thinks 2 strokes are prone to failure are fools. take a look at a typical chainsaw in a tree service. these things will go years, being run at redline 5-6 days a week. and the only time i have ever sen one blow up is when people run straight gas through them.

as for ATV's and bikes. my old KX80, i put probably 100 hours on it in a summer, and it was still perfect when i sold it. who knows how much time was on it before i bought it. My cr250 has also been dead-nuts reliable. only time it failed me was when i ignored what i thought might be a knock......sure enough it was.

[volfan537240]

your buddy needs to get a clue. sounds like hes a winner for sure.

[factoryX]

the banshee in his sig say's it all..lol

[volfan537240]

my banshee is mostly stock... but ive whooped 450R's plenty of times lol.

[eyecekold1]

I want that dual cylinder cr500 motor they had. 216hp is nuts what in the world would you put a motor like that in? I have both 2 and 4 stroke bikes and to me the 2 stroke is so much easier to maintain. I have spent countless hours modding my 350x almost to the point of tears in frustration and I know what I'm doing. Love both of them, Just need to stop snapping the throttle cables on the Tecate (went through 3 last year).
Sweet looking Banshee BTW.

[factoryX]

I want that dual cylinder cr500 motor they had. 216hp is nuts what in the world would you put a motor like that in?

a street bike...

[volfan537240]

Sweet looking Banshee BTW.

thanks bro

[riverrat]

For the most part, you cant just hold a 2 stroke WIDE open for long periods of time. At some point the motor will rev past the point of fuel being able to keep up. This creates a lean mixture, and will melt it down. And Im talking ALLLLLL the way open. The motor will just keep right on going.

There are bikes like the Banshees that are equiped with rev limiters to eliminate the problem for riders without this knowledge. For the most part, dont just hold them WFU. Variate!

Ok, this is just totally not true. #1, you need fuel to make it rev, and if you run out of fuel, you stop reving, so your never going to "rev past the point of fuel being able to keep up". #2 even if that was possible, and you ran out of fuel, you'd run out of air at the same time, and your jetting would still be fine, and you would not be lean. #3, the tuned pipes on 2 strokes only have a certain power range, and once past it, no matter how much fuel and air you give it, it won't rev any more.
Take it from a bunch of guys that run wide open for miles on a frozen lake @90+mph in the cold. Your not going to cook your motor if it is jetted right, and it was put together correctly.

Guys, the Honda manual suggests taking apart the 85-86 250R motor every 20 hours to inspect for wear, and rebuild the top end. They are designed for all out performance. Having said that, I know plenty of guys who have over 100 hours on their engines for more than 5 years, and they are still going.
If you compare apples to apples, you will not find a 250 4 stroke even be able to touch a 250 2 stroke, and if it was modified to the point that it could compete, it would probably blow up, and need service just as often as the 2-stroke.
Run any motor lean, and see what happens.