progress on the sx!! Opinions wanted on rear end sealing!!

[aldochina]

been working on this sx i picked up over the winter for the past week or so. Got it all apart and cleaned, gonna blast and paint the swinger. Originally i just wanted to put swinger bearings in and ride. But the previous owner must of run it for awhile with no bearing on the shaft side, so the knuckle just about chewed through the housing:crazy::crazy: the metal was bulging on the bottom side just a bit, but wasnt worn all the way through. Just layed some jb in there. should do the trick. I want to try to seal the rear end up better, so i cut some gaskets to use instead of the gray silicone from the factory. they are only about 1/32 thick at most, so i wouldnt think there would be any issues. what do ya think. should work right? if anyones interested, i could cut a few more.
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv103/aldochina/102_2864.jpg
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv103/aldochina/102_2866.jpg
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv103/aldochina/102_2865.jpg

[3wheeledjunkie]

Best to use the silicone, it's there from the factory for a reason. We use Hondabond at the dealership, not gaskets. There's a reasn Honda doesn't list a gasket here, best to use the sealant.
P.S- How did you cut those gaskets out so perfect? Everytime I do it there look like a 3rd grader with a pair of safety scissors tried to cut cardboard.

[aldochina]

you'd think if it worked so well they wouldnt have changed and went with o-rings in the 86 model!! i used an exacto knife to cut them. and a gscket whole punch for the bolt holes. Any one else have any opinios on why i shouldnt use them.

[Dirtcrasher]

They don't use gaskets there.....

I file them, and stone both surfaces flat and use 3 bond or really any silicone would work fine.

It's an 85 so I'd still stay away from the water, those drums leak something awful.....

[Frankencelery]

I had o-rings on mine in some places, and mine's an '85 too. Must've been added after the fact.

DC, what do you mean by the drums leaking? I thought that it was the driveshaft boot that had the problems on the '85. What happens when water gets into the drums, besides fouling the brakes?

[fabiodriven]

Bravo on the gaskets. Those came out great.

Unfortunately, I would have to agree with the other guys. I would say 3-Bond would be the way to go. It's usually tough to out-engineer the boys over there at Honda.

[dajeepman]

so what should we be worried about on the 85 BR? Do they have brake issues? Do the seals leak water?

[Escanabajosh]

nice gaskets ya made, i just seen on trucks a idea for gasket punchs, old bullets! a 9mm,.38,.45,and .50 cal i forgot the sizes they made but they were the common sizes.

as for the rear end, have ya checked ebay for a 86-87 rear end? might help with the leakey 85's? i think all you'r insides should work, but you'll have o-rings gaskets then?

[aldochina]

good idea with the spent shell casings!! I may just try the gaskets and see what happens. I know there silicon method they use from the factory does not keep the water out!!

[honda250sx]

Three bond all the way. Hell the original threebond formula came from HONDA. I.E. HONDABOND...

[Mr_RPM]

im not sure what to think about the counter color, lol not to be off topic. oh and i use yamabond

[cattle-dog]

i have a 85 i used the sealer and just a little side note the whole thing with the water is simple if your out riding and summerge the rear on any offroad machine atc/atv/utv/4x4 truck spend the money and change your diff fluid weather its a 85 or 86/87 that is the only way to be safe and is proper care for a offroad machine and takes 10 minutes to do and for the diff is about 50 cents a time sound like cheap insurance to me, i ride nearly everyday and i change my diff fluid nearly everday as i cross water all the time so its like 8 dollars a week to keep my diff safe and i change my crank case oil if the engine is sumerged even if it stays running. this is the cost of rideing. also i have had my diff under water for a few minutes several times and have found very little water in the restored rearend. cattle-dog

[Dirtcrasher]

As far as the drums sealing:

IF it's been all rebuilt, it's just the water that gets in the drum. That whole drum spins on a 7" diameter gasket/rubber ring so they get ate up fast as well as the drum point that it rides on. So, your shoes fall apart if it happens enough; There's a drain plug in the backing plate for a reason......

If it has not been rebuilt. Now that water gets through the axle bearings (2) on the right and oil/dirt seal and then it migrates down the tube and into the differential ring gear seal and bearing. On the flip side, the right; Water only has to get through the axle seal and bearing seals , then it's off to the ring gear that way.

And last are the connections and the boot that a MAIER fender rubs on and rips, unless you make supports and drill holes in your new Maiers......

I silicone under the boot and the barely snug the clamps, next day I tighten them down well.

There is a reason Honda changed the 85 drum in 86/87 and added orings to all the tubes. Just far too much flex in all those pieces for the guys that love water/mud and myself - jumping. I can't really jump the SX anymore, I'm out of straight parts to fix them :D

[aldochina]

thanks for all the input guys!! LOL on the counter top color!! dude, when i bought this house 90% of the place was that color, walls, carpet, tile, toilets, showers!! that counter is the last project!! going to go with granite, but that island peice alone is 4'x9', and 3 2.5'x2.5' pieces thats big bucks man. Beleive me, i hate them, but gonna take me awhile to come upo with the money!! taking donations!!lol!!

[Name Brand]

Don't forget to run the vent tube for the rear diff as high up as possible; like up by the steering stem!

[Mr_RPM]

thanks for all the input guys!! LOL on the counter top color!! dude, when i bought this house 90% of the place was that color, walls, carpet, tile, toilets, showers!! that counter is the last project!! going to go with granite, but that island peice alone is 4'x9', and 3 2.5'x2.5' pieces thats big bucks man. Beleive me, i hate them, but gonna take me awhile to come upo with the money!! taking donations!!lol!!
its kinda cool because its different, lol hey it grabbed my attention, not alot of counters do lol

[Frankencelery]

One more question....what's threebond? Is it a silicone type sealer? I think I used Hondabond when I put my rear end together. I didn't know any better, I guess.

[cattle-dog]

well today i went for my usual ride it had rained for almost 1 1/2 days i crossed several deep ditchs as usual then i come to a spot i have never seen water before is about 100 ft long and doesnt look to deep
i get about 20 feet in and i had to kneel on the seat the whole engine was under water i made it all the way threw finished my ride turned around and go threw again no way around it. so i get home and open my drain plug on the diff and here is a pic of the slime, this is why if you ride even a newly restored shaft honda you drain it evey time it gets drowned.

[Dirtcrasher]

And is that an 85?? or 86/87??

Open the brake drum plug too..........

[cattle-dog]

85 sx, i have three months worth of riding on a full restoration. here is the thing i have been off roading for years even trucks with 44 inch tires sooner or later when you swamp them for a long distance or time in water it gets in they have seals but can only keep out so much, i change my diffs fuild evertyime i go in the water this is the first water that got in but what can you do 100 feet of 24 inch deep water and going threw it twice on top of it. something is going to seep in.dry it out fill it up . if you think the 86/87 is going to keep out 100% of the water you are fooling yourself, it is better but not bullet proof anytime you have a shaft spinning in a seal its not 100% water tight. even a prop shaft on a inboard boat leaks a little into the boat.save yourself the cost and time of replaceing you diff and change the fluid when you drown them its cheap.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ I agree, the 86/87 CAN take in water too. But a fresh 86/87 is better than a fresh 85 because you can't replace your drum insert or the seal. I have had and do have the right seal for the 86/87 brake drum and being merely 1" or so in inside diameter helps allot - Thats the only way water gets into the drum.

I think the hot parts draw in the cold water.

Every 86/87 rearend I get is nearly spotless. 80% of the 85s' are corroded and the brake shoes have lifted.

The 86/87 is not foolproof, but since I've been running them, I have ZERO water entry and I do have crossings. Admitting, I avoid water as much as possible :D

I'd still buy an 85, but I'd immediately be looking for an 86/87 rear end..............

I sold USER8670 my best 85 drum and driveshaft ever, extremely nice parts but I didn't need them and won't in the future.

If your diff is absorbing water, something is out of spec or not sealed, it shouldn't be getting in there IMHO.

Just submerge it and watch where the bubbles come from...............

[cattle-dog]

so do you put the whole 86/87 swingarm setup on your 85s or just the drum as that seems to be the area that is the problem. and why avoid the water or mud? thats all the fun my sx is all powdercoated ,nos honda engine, new plastics, new seat, and i ride it threw everything if it is going to sit and be polished or avoid the wetspots i should sell it it is a atc which means thrash it !!!!!!! i only restored it so it would last me forever not to look at it in the garage.

[Dirtcrasher]

If you restored it, why is water entering????

I don't LOOK at any of my trikes, but I avoid water with my 70,200X,350X,250SX and so on. Water is the enemy, mud is the grit that eats away at tight components.

Someday we will be out of NOS engines and nice axle journals etc etc, give it another 10 years.

They all get ridden, all get beat but I prefer to jump/hill climb rather than cross streams. If you have to, then you have to.............

The large drum seal is a big issue, there are many posts about brake shoes falling apart on the 250ES and 250SX; All because of water sitting in the drum.

ATC does not mean "THRASH IT" it means enjoy it yet understand it's limitations and weaknesses based on the model.

EDIT - YES, the whole rear end swaps from 85-87.

[John Wayne]

thanks dc im in the process of an 85 sx build aswell and was wondering the same thing

[cattle-dog]

i understand about parts getting hard to find i also redo old amc javelins and v8 gremlins, heres the thing any off road machine should be taken apart every so often and cleaned repack bearings check seals, bearings and seals we will always be able to get , riding them hard is not abusing them that is what they were made for, not maintaining them properly is abusing them, and that includes spending a weekend repacking pulling the swingarm to repack thos bearings as well, when i did some motocross racing the bikes always came apart before the next race and got the once over . i figure i will wash and repack bearings on my sx at around 6 months and replace seals.

[honda250sx]

That's why I installed zerks on Jim's SX. If greased. It will never have to come apart again.