2010 Atx400e 3 wheeled atv

[tcAtc200s]

Now before you get to excited i am not announcing a new 3 wheeler.As much as i would love to produce this thing i dont have the parts or materials at hand.

Anyways i am a full time graphic/3d modeling designer.I do 3d models and graphic designs on the computer.Sence i have became a 3 wheeler owner i see how bad it is that these things got banned.So late last night i started a new 3d modeling project.I am modeling a concept of what a 2010 off road 3 wheeler may look like.I am using modern technology being used in 4 wheeled atv's(4 wheelers) and 2 wheeled atv's(dirt bikes).I call this an Atx400e produced by honda motor-sports.

I am going to use this thread to post my wip's(work in progress).I hope you like and please supply feedback on the design.If you have a design drawn or in your head send me a pm i will 3d model it.

If anyone has access to the tools/and materials to make this please contact me.I can help with money and maybe if we could build a true modern day 3 wheeler with the safety/and cool features of a modern day atv we might just be able to convince that the ban should be lifted.Its a long leap but just maybe.

Thanks trailprotrailprotrailpro

P.S. If this thing did go into production in someones garage i do have access to a plastic molding company.The plastics would have to be made in some material so they could make a mold and then start making it in plastic.

[oldskool83]

looks like a chopper frame.

[Chillian]

Personally if i was able to do what you do, i would work backwards at it. Determine what motor you would use, swingarm, carb, airbox, etc.. Then build the frame accordingly, Would be easier to build a frame knowing what your gonna use first.. My 2 cents.

[tcAtc200s]

Chillian i never thought of it that way.Thank you for your advice it realy would make it easier.Thanks.I am going to use the engine out of a honda trx400x.

[BIGREDGUY]

Sounds like a cool project, keep it posted.

[bigworm626]

Your a soon to be pioneer tcatc200s!! get it up!

[the great gazoo]

Verrrrry interesting. I like the idea of presenting the final product to Honda as a possible new 3 wheel atv, but in reality we all know what will happen.
I'm looking forward to this build, good luck however it turns out, TGG.........

[Xpress]

Sweet! Maybe we can stick it to them with this one and get trikes back in the makings :D

[tcAtc200s]

Thanks guys.I do see as it is a big leap and that is why it has came to my attention that everything will need to be pointed out on this project and that many things will need to be tweaked and changed in the process.You all will be the ones to request changes and ideas so i can put them all together.I cant do it alone!!!

[tcAtc200s]

Ok guys i need to know what frame design do you all think works better and looks better?

[fabiodriven]

It would probably look like this- http://www.tpctrikes.com/

[3Wheel_Gunner]

Ok guys i need to know what frame design do you all think works better and looks better?

The one on the right, the e3 design.

[squirrel1182]

one on right.

[NINJA]

It would probably look like this- http://www.tpctrikes.com/

LMAO! I was waiting for someone to say that. I concur.

[tcAtc200s]

Ninja i see what you both mean.But no it wont look like that one thing to point out different is it will have a different frame design as you can see they are still using a traditional old stylish frame design.Also they are using motorcycle plastics my design will consist of plastics that flow better more like the modern day 4 wheelers.

[fabiodriven]

Old stylish frame? That is a modified modern Honda frame, exactly what you're trying to reproduce. Modern day four wheeler plastics? That is exactly what those are. Yours is going to flow better? I'm not trying to shoot you down here, but the TPC seems to me to be the exact trike you are describing. It doesn't get more modern than that. They can be made from all brand-new and modern parts.

[Dirtcrasher]

Yeah but whats with the 400CC crap?? needs to be done well and done right..................

[tcAtc200s]

Well fabiodriven im not trying to make enemies and the only way for me to explain what im trying to say is in model.You will see exactly what i mean in the end.Promise.There is one thing i can explain now and thats what i mean by flow.If you look here http://powersports.honda.com/2009/trx400x.aspx see how the plastics flow like they were made for it thats what i mean.Im trying to make a 3 wheeler flow all together.Whether its possible i will see once i get to that step.There is nothing wrong with how they are making a modern day 3 wheeler but i mentioned i was making a concept for a reason.A concept can turn anyway i want it to and it kinda upset me when you made an assumption of how it would look and now your sticking to it as if you know how it will look.

Dirtcrasher.I dont understand what do you mean.You think i should use a 250 engine?

Well im off to bed have a nice night guys.

[fabiodriven]

I think what DC is asking is why use a 400 and not a 450. The Honda 400cc 4-stroke is air cooled and relatively basic. The 450 is liquid cooled and the pinnacle of modern technology.

[JayBone]

I'd say nothing smaller than a 400cc engine. 4 stoke
Also make the plastics material repairable & paintable like a car bumper. I hate the zip tie look.
If your going with a straight axle. Design the perfect unbendable skid plate.
I'd like to see independant suspention in the rear so you can raise the disc & sproket. I think it's a possible design.
Stay with the oldschool design as far as electrical goes. Keep it simple, but accessory capable.
Make it 49.5 in wide and it will be fine in any atv place as long as trikes are allowed.

[fabiodriven]

IRS on a trike? No thank you.

[JayBone]

I only suggested it because it seems like tcATC200s has the ability to see a design and if it is even possible. i think it could be done, but not sure if it is practical. that's all.

[fabiodriven]

I hear ya. To each their own. I've always been a big fan of an acronym we had in the army- K.I.S.S. It stands for "Keep It Simple Stupid". I'm not calling you or anyone else stupid, just an acronym I live by. Lol

[JayBone]

I know that acronym well. Also was in the army.

[Grizzlypeg]

Maybe not independant rear suspension, but a portal axle where the drive shafts are above the centreline of the wheel hubs. Going to add a lot of weight and cost though.

[oldskool83]

i say get out the welder and parts 1st, anything is easy in CAD, i'd know im a drafter. and if its a 400ex trike you want then id just make HRE make it, aint nothing new to him that cant be done.

design skills are great but real world building skills are far greater i feel.

[tcAtc200s]

Yea well ive got a welder lol but i dont have the materials.I guess i could start saving up and hitting the local scrap yard to see if i can find some usable pipe.Thanks for all the suggestions i will add what i can.

[NINJA]

If you look here http://powersports.honda.com/2009/trx400x.aspx see how the plastics flow like they were made for it thats what i mean.

I hope it doesn't look anything like that, those fuggers are hideous!

[Dirtcrasher]

IT's great to give HRE the props and work, but it won't be cheap......

Oldskool, what did your swingarm run you 500$? more/less? - Let the guys know what they're up against...........

Stick with the hillbilly stuff foe now :D :lol: J/K around

[tcAtc200s]

Ok go to start on the swing arm late last night but never posted pics.Been working on the 3 wheeler all day and havent got to model any.Anyways i have a questions does the hole of the swing arm seem to big or is it just me?

[tcAtc200s]

Update its amazing how the forks make it looks so alive lol.I have made a design for the fork holders(gosh there name has slipped my mind lol) hope you like them.

[Xpress]

Triple trees? Lol. Looks interesting..

[JohnnyBeGood]

make the swinger longer. Like a factory plus 3.

[tcAtc200s]

Swinger?Swingarm you mean?

[JohnnyBeGood]

^Yes sir. That swinger looks alittle short migfht end up looking like a first gen 250r. Give it a couple more inches.

[tcAtc200s]

Ok will do thanks for the advice.

Is this good?More or less?

[JohnnyBeGood]

Ya much better IMO

[tcAtc200s]

Well to me your opinion counts.lol.

[Xpress]

Yeah, that's looking better.

[Thorpe]

Need to widen the triple trees out too... Currently it looks like a dirtbike front wheel and tire is all that would fit...

[tcAtc200s]

Thorpe yes i noticed that last night also but wasnt realy for sure if they needed to be wider but i knew someone would mention it so now that you did i guess they do.Thanks.

[AutoXer]

if this is to be a new age sport trike maybe a alloy frame or a trellis frame? Are you thinking of mounting the tank tri-z style to get a low center of gravity? The rear section could be up alot higher on the bottom (looks funny to me) Maybe you are thinking more of a trail bike ie 400 instead of 450?
when designing you need to keep a end result in mind and build off of it . You are way farther than I am with this

[tcAtc200s]

I do have ideas on how to mount the tank/and everything.I am having a little bit of a suspension issue dont get me wrong cause i want to keep it different but not many ways you can make the suspension lol.I have done many concepts but they have been big trucks and cars.

I call it the FlowStar.

[BIGREDGUY]

Thats sweet, and ya definitely widen up those forks.

[motoman1012002]

and make the tripple tress in line with the collor moun, the big trucks look sweet but i think the stacks are to close to the door I think someone would get burnt haha

[tcAtc200s]

Thanks guys.And im confused the triple trees are inline with the mount.Might just be the position but i took a look at the model and its aligned.

[xomatosis]

Since i have became a 3 wheeler owner i see how bad it is that these things got banned. If anyone has access to the tools/and materials to make this please contact me.I can help with money and maybe if we could build a true modern day 3 wheeler with the safety/and cool features of a modern day atv we might just be able to convince that the ban should be lifted.Its a long leap but just maybe.



AFAIK the ban is no longer in affect..


The agreement stated that production would cease for ten years, although no major manufacturer has resumed production since the ban ended in 1997.

[tcAtc200s]

AFAIK the ban is no longer in affect..

Are you serious.Oh my gosh this now turns my project into a prototype to convince company's to start remaking them.

[fabiodriven]

That truck is absolutely gorgeous!!!!!

[tcAtc200s]

Thanks fabiodriven.I appreciate it.Oh guys more updates coming soon i hope to get it into a rolling frame tonight!

[tcAtc200s]

Ok i widened the front forks.And added a little detail to the main frame.

[GeoD]

AFAIK the ban is no longer in affect..

This is false. I believe it was last year the CPSC addressed the lead paint being sprayed on the cheap Chinese ATVs (children's ATVs). Within their statement they also slipped in that all 3 wheeled ATVs (ATCs) will be forever banned from production and/or sale within the United States (land of the free). Here is an interesting article before the final ban went into effect. I can't find the final document but it was part of the Youth's ATV lead paint ban document.

http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr06/066703.pdf

tcAtc200s. Is there a way your CAD program can test the stress points of the frame? Parts of the frame look like it would have similar weak spots like the 350X. One being about 4 inches above the footpeg. Maybe some additional gussets will strengthen the weak areas.

[xomatosis]

I read the parts about 3 wheelers and I also emailed Elizabeth Leland to see what she has to say about the ban.

Also, the ban was lifted but as we can see from this document that in 2006 they pushed to ban them forever as opposed to writing a proper guide on safety for them like they are doing for the other ATVs. Basically it said its better to just ban 3 wheelers all together rather then write up safety regs for them since the public has 4 wheelers which are more safe since they have 4 wheels

[Xpress]

4 wheels aren't any safer than 3 wheels. The CPSC needs to take that document they wrote up about 3 wheelers and shove it up a place that never sees the light...

I bet it's a bunch of stuck up old farts who are too damn lazy to modify the already in effect safety rules for trikes, and would rather get rid of it completely. Losers IMO who think that.

[TheRealFatShady]

Guess the only way to make em is to produce both quads and dirtbikes, made with trike geometry in mind, and have the dirtbike front end directly bolt onto the 'quad' frame.

[Xpress]

Or rally up support to reject the CPSC's trike ban.

[TheRealFatShady]

Seriously, I don't see why we don't.

Logically some people will see trikes as 'outdated'. However, others will see them as nostalgic and want them; others will want what they had or wanted during their own childhood, and some other people would just be curious.

I don't expect a full line of them, especially since Honda didn't make new quads or at least sport quads this year, but still I'd expect one or two basic models, such as a Big Red remake and maybe 350x or 200x remake with new technology. Wouldn't expect any companies to put any giant engines in a trike.

Seriously, what's worse? A Raptor 660 / Can Am 800cc quad or an ATC 70? Even comparing a larger trike, it seems that quads have gotten so much bigger, heavier, and powerful that the original trikes are no longer 'more dangerous'. Lets get rid of dirtbikes and motorcycles next, as they cannot sit still without leaning against something or having a kickstand. They can tip, ban them.

[tcAtc200s]

This is the way i see it.And dont get me wrong sitting here talking about it isnt gonna get us any where.We just need to do it.But this a point that i would point out and excuse my language but it pisses me off that cigarettes kill alot more people in this world every month then a 3 wheeler would even come close to doing in a year with a responsible rider but they still havent banned cigarettes have they?Nope.The only reason they dont ban cigarettes is because they make to much money off of them who gives a F%@* if they kill people.Man it just sets me on fire.

[TheRealFatShady]

Didn't they kill Joe Camel? Seriously they can kill a cartoon advertising character, but don't allow a 'certain' type of recreational vehicle to be made?

If you personally believe them to be dangerous, then don't ride one. Like a handgun, if used incorrectly, you can kill yourself or someone else. I fail to see that trikes are SOOO dangerous that we must NOT be given the opportunity to decide that for ourselves............

[JohnnyBeGood]

Welcome to "democracy".

[tcAtc200s]

Yup......Well moving on um guys do you think the tires are to big.You all told me to widen the front forks but now i think there to wide.What do you think?

[rckstrgrl21]

INHO the rear wheels are too close together. Is it going to have a rear Axle? If so I would widen it by atleast 4"

[Logan Mathwig]

rear axles to narrow, in my opinion, preaty cool so far!!

[Xpress]

Thinner wider diameter front tire, and farther spaced apart rear wheels. I think they should be more square in the rear :)

[tcAtc200s]

Hows this.I think it looks bout right now.And yes i forgot all about the rear wheels being to close lol.But i fixed them.

[Xpress]

Little bit wider in the rear, and a wider diameter front tire :)

[tcAtc200s]

Ok 1 question.Any one know why my signature got removed?Is there a size limit cause i havent seen it any where?JW

[Logan Mathwig]

is this thing a solid rear axle ,or whats going on back there? still looks to narrow to me, maybe its just me.

[tcAtc200s]

Well its gonna be solid.I thought about doing something never done on a 4 wheeler or 3 wheeler and thats independent suspension and put a transmission on it witch would make it different but i like chain driven or hydrostatic.Here is a better view it will put it in perspective way better.


EDit second image is the rear wider i even thought it should go wider lol so i did.Now is it good?

[Logan Mathwig]

lookin better, did you figure out what kind of engine this monsters gonna have yet, or you just workin on the rough blue prints for now? might be easier to get a bunch of parts and just start fabricating some stuff up!

[3wheelmecca]

What is the rake angle again? Also I would throw the tree offset in towards the frame a bit, then the steering stops could either be integrated into the frame or put in on top and make bosses on the trees, making the stops adjustable.
It looks really good on the stance though, itll rip on the trails.
Reminds me of my T-3 before I lowered it.

[tcAtc200s]

Im sry i dont know alot about trikes(lol then why am i making this thing hehe)Anyways i dont know what you mean by rake angle?I do race motocross but never heard that term if i had to guess its the angle of the front forks?


Oh and about testing stress points um i think i can do it.But i have to rig it for it.It will take me a little bit to figure it out.I will have to check.If i get it i will let everyone know how it goes lol.I do know there are a few tests i can run.They have weird names but i will try and translate them into more hillbilly terms.LOL

[3wheelmecca]

The angle of the front forks relative to the ground. Forks forming the hypotenuse and the ground and vertical axes as the respective bases.
Kickback.
I would make them closer and kicked more verical to eliminate wheel flop.
I learned that from building choppers.

[tcAtc200s]

Here is a side view you realy think so?Well i mean im just wandering if its a perspective thing.Imo i think its bout right it could go in just a little.But here is a side view what do you think?

[atctim]

If this is to scale - this may help you out - dimensionally - an ideal MX 250r is about 52" wheel base and 50" wide in the rear. Also - if this is a 2010 - you should use beefy aluminum square tubing where you can - like the down tube and twin spar upper frame rails - similar to the MX dirt bikes.

[3wheelmecca]

Rake looks good, just suck those forks into the steering stem a bit. Looks good as a side view. I'm with tim on the spar look, should make it really beefy

[SeaBass8]

Whats the purpose of this trike? I mean is it a race trike, utility, or somewhere inbetween? Depending on its intended use will determine so many factors of the design.

Looks great so far. What application is this done with?

[tcAtc200s]

Im using 3ds max 2009 oem addition.Also i do know what you mean but i modeled it from a 4 wheeler frame.Witch they dont have that square beefy look.Is this what you mean?(modeled this up real quick for you all)also its meant for racing.i will make a utility version and also im gonna make a spider atv.The spider is made by can-am it has 2 wheels in front 1 in back im gonna make an off road version of it wooha later on down the road project.

Is this what you mean?Also i might make a different version with this style frame.Im currently using a 4 wheeler frame witch dont have that beefy look.

4 wheeler frame http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-HONDA-TRX250EX-TRX-250-EX-250EX-COMPLETE-FRAME-NEW-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5ad708e0e3QQitemZ39015 4739939QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories .I have incorporated designs from a dirt bike.

My design of what i may do next time around.

[SeaBass8]

Wow that software is pricey, but it looks like you get what you pay for.

I see now where your getting some inspiration from the 4 wheeler frame. Not that your looking to make your design look like typical three wheeler configuration but Honda was using a single tube backbone and a single square down tube that forked into a Y at the bottem when they stopped production.

1986 200X

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e124/SeaBass888/FrameandAxle.jpg

I'm not saying you should go that route but thats a more typical configuration. Also if you havent already you should look in the Top Tier Build section to see Jason halls 450r aluminun frame build and 250rFan's 450 build. Again its your design you can go anyway you wish.

Keep it going!

[tcAtc200s]

Thanks for the pic.And its not pricey if you use the words oem lol. http://royal-oem.com/shop/item/84/ right there for only 159.00 crazy right lol.Yup i got started on the program thanks to my brother who does models for pixar.Hes taught me it all.And thanks to him im were im at.Been doing this stuff for about 3 years maybe a little less.

Anyways im going to sit the tank in the frame.Witch is why i had to do the "Y" shape as the back bone.Witch sitting the tank into the frame is how its done up to date.I thought about doing old style tank on top then i realized dirt bikes today and recently have the tank sat in the frame.So thats my reasoning behind the frame design.If your wandering.

[tcAtc200s]

Well went to work on the 3 wheeler today and the 3ds max file has corrupted.Lucky me i saved another one for backup purposes oh poop its corrupted.I have no idea how this happend its never happened well it has but never corrupted the backup so how it happened idk.I have an older file from this project but i have to remodel the support were the seat goes,the front fork detail,and re align the wheels not a hole lot of work but disappointing that i have to spend time to get were i was.:( so it will be a little bit before another update.So sry i dont know how it happened.

[Xpress]

I always save multiple models when I'm working on .3ds projects. Like when I make a file I save it as FILE-1, and when I do any mods to it, I save it as FILE-2, ect. ect. :)

[tcAtc200s]

Yup thats what i was doing but see usually when a file corrupts it corrupts only one of the file-1 or file-2 not both file-1 and file-2 lol.

[Mendomotox]

first off great thread. heres what i think, i like the twin spar frame idea but make it out of steel. what u had was already close, if u just widened the top two tubes u will get the twin spar look and more room for the tank also. i also noticed that the backbone and the down tube connect to the head stem at almost the same location, it is much stronger if the backbone connects to the top of the head. and the down tube connects to the bottom of the head. also increase the length of the head stem (top to bottom) this will make the triple clamps farther apart (altitude wise) which is also stronger.

just another opinion

[3wheelmecca]

On the twin spar, it looks like a good idea, but the 2 tubes will flex between them. I would suggest going like the Honda CR80, one tube going down and 2 coming up to it. The spars that come up to the single down tube are one piece and will give good strength and weight savings.
As for the forks being sucked in, I would suggest having a fuel tank similar to the 1984 Honda XR200R, there are reliefs that even inverts can fit without hitting.

[v8280z]

This reminds me of a CAD project I started about 5 years ago when I was learning Solidworks. Maybe I should finish it someday... ;)

Here is a screenshot.

[3wheelmecca]

V8280Z, that trike looks cool, like something the Rat Fink would ride. The design says it all.