Any licensed electricians?

[fabiodriven]

So I am continuing with my on-going garage build project and I am getting to the point where I need to do some electrical work. I have a permit to build the garage and I am going today to pull the permit for the electrical work. Apparently in Mass the homeowner can do their own electrical work but the work has to be up to code. I asked the woman in the building department of my town where I can get the "code". She told me she didn't know where to get it. I have a fair amount of experience with electrical work. I installed a lot of outlets, lights, etc at my old house and learned quite a bit. However, I didn't do any of that work to code. I just did what looked safe and made sense. The garage has a "box" in it already, so that's a good thing. I will be installing a lot of lights and outlets and will eventually need to install 220 out there, but 110 is good enough for now.

Is the "code" a national thing or is just regional? Where can I find the code? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[harryredtrike]

hey fabio,the (code) is the national electric code,NEC.they put out a new book every year about a 3 inch mother.local communities can add there own touches to this and do.mostly area specific stuff,like if you live by water,lots of snow,that kind of stuff

[dksix]

HRT is right. You can't just go by NEC because there are lots of local code that will not appear in the book. NEC code will cover everything to ensure that it's safe. Local code may dictate how close or far apart outlets can be, if GFI circuits must be used here of there, how low a light can hang etc. Here is the south, things are far more relaxed and there is less of this stuff but I've worked with people from up north where building codes are much more strict. What all are you going to be wiring? If it's in a shop/garage type building the code will be different than for domestic dwellings or commercial buildings. I always like to over build in the shop (especially outlets). I went with 4 outlets to a 20amp breaker with 12/2 Romex and all my 220 is on it's own breaker. I did have to do different sized wires for the bigger stuff like air compressor, stick welder, plasma cutter and PC ovens (40 and 60 amp circuits). Just a note: I saved about 50% by buying online vs buying at Lowes and Home Depot, if you have time to order you can save hundreds on a medium sized shop.

[Ironbnder]

Our local Parish (County) Planning Commission will come out and do a construction visit with you and answer any questions you have before the work begins. This will be the same guy that will come out for the final inspection when you are done. It really helps build repore with these guys if they know you are trying to do it the right way. Just call and ask if your local Commision will do this to.

[Dirtcrasher]

MASSACHUSETTS overides NEC code.............Yet, both must be satisfied.

MASS adds there little crap and you must conform, it is not universal. It's stupid, but it's what I was taught in 200hrs. of Electrical Code class.

They constantly add new itty bitty things to the code every year.

I have the 2.5" NEC book and you wouldn't want to read it. There #1 priority is safety, I was told if you ever don't know the answer to "THINK SAFETY!!"

House wiring is simple, but will Mr inspector want the whole service changed and updated? If your only running a direct burial wire out there #12 for 20 amps he may not be concerned about the existing panel. The house was inspected when you bought it and passed so I can't see why it would be an issue.

BUT, If you want 30,40 or 60 Amps like I have; I'd be using the grey PVC and run stranded/solid THHN wires in there. I think in Mass 18"s down is deep enough for inspection but you have to leave an open trench and get that inspected, then a small panel roughed in inspected and so on. Or he may be a decent guy or you might only run one wire out there; But if you only run one wire out there that will limit the number of receptacles you can have on that fuse/breaker.

If you as an unlicensed electrician can pull the permit, can you talk to him John? I mean, this guy may want your receptacles 14"s off the floor, GFI's etc etc.

At this point, your use to the town sticking there nose in it so it is what it is.

Remember what I told you about my brother, he plumbed his whole house and they saw a radiator in the yard. They checked and no permit was filed so they knocked on his door and said "Hi, I'm the plumbing inspector" and of course he considered none of it to be up to code and told him "rip it all out"; He sold the house................

[Ironbnder]

There is more to it than amps and wire sizes though. As DC was saying, the conduit, devise mounting, your trench, the groundings, to bond the neutral and ground or not to, the nit-picking goes on and on if they want it to. I had two inspectors argue over how a panel should be grounded right in front of me. You will be better off finding out how they want it rather than assuming. Call and ask for a construction visit.

[fabiodriven]

OK guys. Lots of good info here. I'm going to go talk to the inspector today to see what he's going to want. As long as I can get some power out there for now to work on stuff, I'll be happy. I really appreciate all the replies.

[Dirtcrasher]

fabio, i have been in home building for 28 years for myself, for a garage on the outlets if it was mine i would start with 20 amp breaker for outlets and use 12-2 wire with only 4 outlets per breaker, that way you can have a drill press, power hacksaw,or 110 mig on a line with no worrys, i allways put my 220 welder plug or aircompresser near the panel. lights use 15 amp breaker ,14-2 wire, and no more than 6 lights per run. i use outlets in my garage ceiling and use plug in shoplights . i have allways passed inspection doing this ;a garage has less rules than a house. remember 14-2 wire 20 amp breaker can take more load, 12-2 wire 15 amp breaker i only use it on lights.

14-2 should have a 15 Amp breaker and 12-2 a 20 Amp breaker, The wire size determines a breaker size; Thats if it's copper wire.

6 lights per run? how many Watts? Lets say 75. 75 x 6 = 450 watts. 450 watts/ 120V = just under 4 amps. 100Watt bulbs would be 6 amps. Then the air compressor tag has LR or locked rotor Amps on it which has to be added...

Length of the run - Voltage drop, grounding rod, hard wired smoke detectors etc will all be up to Mr. inspector.

I've got 85 Amps and could use 100 in my 16 x 20 shed. Everyone's needs are different; Either add up all the amps of the items running simultaneously or run them and toss your amp clamp on it with the hold button in place. The initial start up has the highest amperage.......

Just think, I'm only an HVAC guy :lol:

[fabiodriven]

I think I just popped a breaker in my brain...:(

[hublake]

Are you planning to have this run from your house system or are you going to have a seperate meter for the garage. If you are going to a seperate meter for the garage I would suggest that you use a 150 or 200 amp service. You never have to much capacity. You might want to add things especially 220 items that need 40 or 60 amp breakers. I always think it is better to go to much than not enough.

[fabiodriven]

The meter is on the house. There was already electricity in the garage before I tore the old one down, so I do have electricity out there already. I just need to wire the rest of the garage up.

[harryredtrike]

how far away is the garage?from the main power source?that will determine the gauge of your feeder wire.always over size everything.more is better.

[hublake]

I think if you are going to use the house service and have to run electricity to the garage you are going to be somewhat limited on what you can use in the garage. I think it would be better for the garage to have its own service.

[tri again]

I tried to get a separate meter and service to my barn.

7 grand to run it from the road.

I couldn't tag off the house because they have upgraded everything to 4 wires now, a common AND a ground plus the 2 120 legs.

so I'd have to upgrade my main power all the way.

Towns, cities, counties and states can be more strict than the national codes (laws) but not less, so they say.

[ATC-RYDA]

Well in most instances u can not have more than one service on one property unless u have 2 or more divided dwellings such as an apartment building , or a split condo and such ... Although u can upgrade your main service and run a sub panel off of that. Which ,may be best in your application .. Also 90% of dwellings never come close to using half of the maximum amperage rating of their service .. Which most people dont know... I've learned most of this going through my apprenticeship for the i b e w 351 here in south jersey , which is what i do for living... Hope this helps !

[fabiodriven]

Well, I got some good news. I still have to talk to the building inspector, but I guess once the building is signed off on then I can have at it with the electrical with no permit at all. We'll see what happens I guess.

[Dirtcrasher]

Good deal, now we'll just have to see how big it is when were sober :lol: