Honda 350X VIN Help Needed!

[2Tim215]

I have tried two different VIN decoders and need to register two of my 350x"s. I went to do the paperwork today and the VIN JH3TE0808FM010217 comes back as a 1985. Drove all the way to Pennsylvania for that one and wouldn't have bought it if it was an 85, (paid pretty good for it!). Anyone had this problem before? The Honda sticker says its a 1986. I ran another VIN of a known 86 that I do have paperwork for, (I have three of them), and it comes back as a 1986. I am trying to make out the VIN on another 350X to see how it comes up but my batteries are charging! Appreciate any help and was also wondering is there any way to tell the difference besides the plastics between a 1985 and 1986?

[fabiodriven]

If the production date is 6/85 or after it is considered an 86.

[2Tim215]

If the production date is 6/85 or after it is considered an 86.
How can I tell the production date and wouldn't the VIN come up as an 86 if it was made 6/85 and after?

[Flossyb20]

There actually are a few differences between the years. I just snagged a fresh 85 frame to replace the cracked/bent/hacked one on my 86...I still feel it's an 86, just with an 85 frame. Anyway, here's a list of what I found after comparing the 2:
-86 uses larger bolts in the frame for the 2 sets of plate-type motor mounts (these bolts will not fit in an 85 frame)10mm vs. 8mm
-the 85 frame will have a tab on the front of the downtube to hold the clutch cable (also one right above the ID sticker ) 86 clutch cable ran down the left side of the bike and didn't have these.
- 86 frame will have a half-wrap around the frame on the left side where the rear motor mount tab is welded on. This was part of the improvements Honda did to strengthen the frame
There are also a few other difference between the 2 years besides the frame. Including front brake setup, rear swingarm, clutch set-up, and rear shock reservoir.

[rdlsz24]

How can I tell the production date and wouldn't the VIN come up as an 86 if it was made 6/85 and after?

Yes the VIN should come up as an 86. That F in the middle of your VIN says it's 85. Is it possible the frame was swapped at some point?

Rob

[2Tim215]

Yes the VIN should come up as an 86. That F in the middle of your VIN says it's 85. Is it possible the frame was swapped at some point?

Rob
That could have been possible but it has a 1986 Honda manufacturer sticker on it? I just went and got the engine number and am trying to figure out how to decode it. My manual doesn't seem to give that info. Thanks!

[2Tim215]

There actually are a few differences between the years. I just snagged a fresh 85 frame to replace the cracked/bent/hacked one on my 86...I still feel it's an 86, just with an 85 frame. Anyway, here's a list of what I found after comparing the 2:
-86 uses larger bolts in the frame for the 2 sets of plate-type motor mounts (these bolts will not fit in an 85 frame)10mm vs. 8mm
-the 85 frame will have a tab on the front of the downtube to hold the clutch cable (also one right above the ID sticker ) 86 clutch cable ran down the left side of the bike and didn't have these.
- 86 frame will have a half-wrap around the frame on the left side where the rear motor mount tab is welded on. This was part of the improvements Honda did to strengthen the frame
There are also a few other difference between the 2 years besides the frame. Including front brake setup, rear swingarm, clutch set-up, and rear shock reservoir.
Thanks Flossy, the one in question does have the two tabs holding the clutch cable going down the right side of the down tube. I am waiting to hear back from the seller. If he is a member here and doesn't make it right I'll post his information. He really seemed like an honest person! Very disappointed to say the least!

[2Tim215]

I bought this one because of the condition and that it was a 1986 but also it has the Electric Start set-up which was really needed with my arthritis and other health issues.

[rdlsz24]

That could have been possible but it has a 1986 Honda manufacturer sticker on it? I just went and got the engine number and am trying to figure out how to decode it. My manual doesn't seem to give that info. Thanks!

Well I can buy any year sticker I want from Harlan and slap it on the frame. I'm not saying the seller would do it to be deceiving; if the sticker was missing or damaged and he thought it was an 86, he would have bought the 86 sticker

Rob

[2Tim215]

Possible that is what happened but its not a brand new sticker or it wasn't applied well. After closer inspection looks like it was put right over the 1985 sticker so if that is the case I would guess it was an outright deception on the sellers part and possibly illegal but I'm not sure. based on what Flossy shared above there are obvious differences between the 85 and 86. Just to give the benefit of doubt it is possible that is how the seller received it but either way he will need to make it right with me and then it would be up to him to go after who he bought it from. I am a bit concerned as the seller was VERY knowledgeable and told me how he rebuilt many Honda ATC's so it appears he probably knew. I would guess the reason to try and pass it off as a 86 is the value difference it has after market plastics also that make it look like an 86, here is a photo of it taken a while ago before it was sold to me, condition isn't the same when I got there but was close,
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Avon2day/350Xwilliamsport2.jpg
I see now it doesn't have the 86 rims either. Guess I'm learning the hard way!

[badass350x]

That really sucks and is not right if he truly knew that!!!! hope he is honest and makes it right, good luck.

[2Tim215]

I'm hoping! Just ran the engine number with a link MonroeMike gave me from the old site and the motor also is a 1985. Anyone know if the clutches are the same for the 85 and 86?

[2Tim215]

I was just curious, anyone know what the production number was for the 1986 vs. the 1985 350X? Did Honda produce more or scale back?

[bugler30]

...honestly I think you are making a bigger deal out of this than needed. It is a VERY clean trike for either year, the biggest difference is the bearing carrier and the way the rear brake is setup the rest are relatively minor tweaks. Do you mind me asking what you paid for it? Even in Oregon where trikes seem to be the cheapest and most plentiful in the country that could easily be $1500, on the same note 86's don't go for THAT much more.

While agree with you that purposeful deception is wrong and such people should be strung up by their toes. Don't be to hard on the seller, it's likely they don't know the differences even if they are knowledgeable about honda atc's in general and just went of the sticker on the neck said. I would say that I'm fairly knowledgeable but I don't go checking VINs and couldn't rattle off ALL the differences on the two years of the 350x even though that is what I have.

In any case its unlikely that you will get the seller to refund you any money and I'm no lawyer but I don't think you have much legal grounds to stand on as the VIN was not tampered with. I say enjoy your new trike with electric start and upgrade the parts as needed.

At least he didn't try to sell it as an 87 :lol:

[Flossyb20]

Tim
As far as internals go, there's no difference in the clutches, but there are differences between the 2 years in how the clutch operates. In 85, the cable runs down the right side of the engine, and the clutch arm pulls back to front...in 86 the cable runs down the left side of the engine, behind the cylinder, and actuates outside to in. Looking at the pictures (it's still a VERY nice trike...but I understand your frustrations), it seems that both the frame and motor are indeed 85. Hope you get things worked out with the seller. Maybe he could refund you a couple hundred and you'd be able to sell it for what you got into, and then find that elusive 86!!

[83ATC185S]

I dont see how an 86 350x is worth more than an 85 350x. yeah 86's were the last year,but 85's were the first year. who cares its basically the exact same thing with minor differences. its not like honda made huge improvements over the two years

[Flossyb20]

I dont see how an 86 350x is worth more than an 85 350x. yeah 86's were the last year,but 85's were the first year. who cares its basically the exact same thing with minor differences. its not like honda made huge improvements over the two years

You're right, they are basically the same, but there's nowhere near as many 86s out there as 85...same goes for the 250rs.. A lot of them got chopped up and sent back to honda, with all their parts stored on a shelf somewhere. That whay you find so may 86 350x crate engines laying around (used to anyway) Same could be said for the 87 200x and 125m - they're the same bike, just looks different.

[Slingblade]

It obviously has an 85 seat on it. I personally wouldn't step over a nice 85 to get an 86. I've never noticed a difference in the market value. It's all about condition, and it looks like you got a nice one.

[RDH/86200X]

imo i would be happy with what you got. im my area both years go or about the same money also i see more 86 than 85. honda didnt chop up the 86 three wheelers because the ban didnt go into effect intill 1987. so i think you are blowing this a little out of porportion. also think about all the idiots out there that think they have this trike when in all reallity they have something completely different. sorry if im comming of a little rude but i just cant understand.

[2Tim215]

Let me explain that I am new to the whole 350X thing. My understanding was Honda made improvements on the 86 vs the 85 and it was because I already bought a 86 from a member here I thought it would be best to have the same thing as my second trike should one go down I could grab a part off of the other if I had to. The BIGGEST issue is that the seller filled out the paperwork also as 1986 and it won't pass through DMV because the VIN comes back as a 85 and they have to be registered here in NY. I prefer the 86 even as a newby to the 350X and they are different as far as swapping out parts. The last issue is that I bought another 1986 Parts machine because I thought I had two 1986 keepers. Hope this clears it up.

[Slingblade]

^That does make things a little complicated. I'm sorry if I sounded offensive. If the seller truly knew he had an 85, applied a sticker and tried to pass it as an 86, then he lied. But with all due respect it's a little hard to believe that a buyer and seller- both members of this forum - didn't do some homework before the transaction to educate themselves on exactly what they were buying or selling, Hope it all works out.

[fabiodriven]

I do understand your frustration with the seller. If he passed it off as an 86 that is just not right. You do have a right to be unhappy.

As already stated, you did score a very nice machine there and the improvements Honda made on the 86's is minimal. The clutch cable re-route is a good upgrade and the only other significant one IMO is the improved frame gussets. Either way, the 86 frames need more gussseting anyways so that shouldn't matter all that much either.

[Flossyb20]

honda didnt chop up the 86 three wheelers because the ban didnt go into effect intill 1987. You may want to do a little research on this. You're right in that the Consent decree wasn't signed until 87, but Honda began pulling the Big Boy toys off the showrooms floors in early 86. The outright ban of all 3 wheelers didn't take effect until it was almost time for the 88 models years to come out, which is why there are 87 200x, 250es, 125ms still out there that were bought new, but no 350xs and 250rs

[Jerm1179]

i say take off the goki starter and put it on your 86, THEN sell it to me and meet me half way for me to pick it up:P problem solved...

[rdlsz24]

2Tim215, did you talk to the seller yet?

Rob

[2Tim215]

I did talk to the seller and sent him the right forms to fill out for a 1985 rather than an 86 so I can get this thing registered, sold, traded, or whatever I decide. I haven't really made up my mind yet as to what I'll do until I have the correct paperwork in hand. I bought a lot of parts from him also, one is a bearing carrier but looks like it will only fit the 86 model. I have two 86's, one that rides and the other a project. I used certified mail with signature required. Its been quite costly but hopefully will work out. The seller sounds very sincere in making it right, just heard from him last night, I'll update soon!

[350XJEDI]

:Dsweet trike no mater what year, just enjoy ,wish my 85 had electric start , dont think theres a big diff in value 85-86 its clean ,:naughty: trade you a bascetcase 86 if your desperate for 86 :lol: !! both my 350x runners started out looking like scrap with totes of parts :rolleyes: the 86 i got nonrunner yet! will probably be parts for the 85'S but , if you paid to much you will have learned a truly valuble lesson , not trying be rude ,just think ,relax ,enjoy good luck:beer:beer:beer

[Dirtcrasher]

It's an 85 with some 86 parts on it.

There were like 50 changes to the 86 which are nice but like John said, most weren't HUGE improvements although I think many of them were well thought out; And the frames DO need additional gusseting regardless of what Honda did to the 86 frames. Mine I'm building is an 86 and it's cracked..........

[2Tim215]

It's an 85 with some 86 parts on it.

There were like 50 changes to the 86 which are nice but like John said, most weren't HUGE improvements although I think many of them were well thought out; And the frames DO need additional gusseting regardless of what Honda did to the 86 frames. Mine I'm building is an 86 and it's cracked..........
Dirtcrasher, where should I look for weak spots on the frame and where do most of you recommend reinforcing? I'm pretty good at welding with a mig and have a place to make my gussets.

[Dirtcrasher]

Just look at my threads, you'll see all the gusseting I've done. At least 5 or more are on the board....... I'm up to about 15 gusset points on my new build.

The cracking is just above or below the back engine mount, about where your top of your left ankle would be. In the back, you'll find a small motor mount with folded sides for strength and it's merely welded to the downtube; Thats where they crack. They also crack at the 2 holes for rear seat mounting. A couple other places have failed all depending on the weld and the abuse it's seen.

Bill at TPC sells a really nice gusset kit, they appear laser/water cut and I think a bit thinner than mine, which is fine. You don't need .125 gussets, I just had a 4 x 4 sheet laying around........

Probably .062 to .0937 is plenty thick.

[D-dub]

If you really wanted an 86 model year, I would of done my homework before jumping into a purchase

[2Tim215]

If you really wanted an 86 model year, I would of done my homework before jumping into a purchase
Gee, Thanks for the advice! Please read post 8 & 20 and keep in mind that the plastics were 86, the sticker was 86, and the seller advertised it as a 86. It should be clear that I, "really wanted an 86", as posted I bought two others. Maybe I am too trusting but like stated in post 20 I am new to the whole 350X thing. That is one I never owned until I bought one from a member here at a decent price but guess what? It had a 86 sticker on it with red rear plastics, still was a 86 as it was sold to me and the sticker stated. I never thought to run the VIN and the seller of the 85 filled out all the DMV paperwork as a 1986. There was no reason to doubt him, he seemed very sincere and it looks like he is going to make things right and send out the paperwork with the correct year. I personally don't believe he was the one who put the 86 sticker over the 85 and he was probably taken as I was. People exchange plastics, seats, etc. a lot but to outright change the sticker was a deception with intent. I wish I could find out who the culprit was as this has become costly and time consuming let alone not being able to ride it! I would Post the culprits name in large bold letters so the rest of you don't get taken or trust a person to stoop to this level. I have owned many three wheelers, look at my album for just some of them I've had. I can probably tell you things about some models that you never owned and didn't know about. I joined this forum to learn and share and have learned a lot and will continue to but none of us can be an expert on every model that was made with all the different variations from model, make, and year! Hope my reply doesn't seem to harsh but you came across as pouring some salt into the wound, possibly because you didn't read the whole thread?

[2Tim215]

Just received a confirmation from the Post Office that my paperwork arrived safely and seller has already sent them back with a tracking number! Hopefully everything got filled out correctly and I will have at least one 350X on the road soon! Should have the package tomorrow, Friday at the latest as he sent it Priority Mail. I will update when package arrives!!!

[2Tim215]

Just received the proper paperwork from the seller with the correct year (1985), and went right down to DMV and registered it. So far so good. It takes 4-6 weeks in NY to get back our transferable registration which is basically like a car Title. They gave me the non-transferable one til then with my plate so all is well and legal to date! Can't wait to get the final paperwork. Glad the seller stepped up to do the right thing!