350X front end on a Gen 1 200X

[dksix]

I have this 85 350X and it seems like I've read that the 350x forks are allot better than the 200x forks. Is swapping them a direct swap, are the head tubes the same size? While I making a thread, what about the the shock and or swing arm? If it's not allot of trouble I mught hold on to the 350X suspension for my 84 200X

[RapidRick]

I've done both. Steering stops are different. You'' have to cut off the old and weld on a new for the front.
For the back, if you can find an adapter which hasn't been made in quite a while you could use that, I've also seen where you need to reposition the stock bottom mounts on the swingarm. This is what it looks like on an 85.. there are a thread or two about this already.


120120

[dksix]

nice trike, Rick. Thanks for the picture. Is the front and rear suspension from a 350X? Does it have the shock and swing arm or just the shock, if it does have 350X rear on it. How much did it raise the ground clearance? I've already got the frame powder coated and together. If I have to cut or weld on the 200X frame I don't think I would do it. I honestly won't ride the 200X I'm working on often. It will be more of a show piece to me, maybe take it to the track and ride a little MX with it but nothing that would scratch it up or get the plastic messed up.

[RapidRick]

Front is 85 350X, you'd have to change the steering stops. Just replaced the rear shock. Like I say there are no available custom dog bones to make the lower shock mount to the swing arm, you'd have to cut the mounts and reposition them which is what someone else was suggesting.

Try searching on Muddy200x then find his thread on How to put a 350X suspension on your 200x. I'm sure that will answer your questions.

[leevarnado]

i have a custom dog bone that i never used.if you can find someone to replicate the one i have,i will send it to you but in exchange i want mine back and another one.

[Dirtcrasher]

Since your already PC'd; You can always tig weld a stop on the 350X triple after grinding off the old one and adapt it to your 200X stop.........

[ironchop]

wow rick....that ground clearance is SO much better.

I was looking at one of mine on the milkcrate wishing it sat like that on tires...gonna search those threads

Do you notice any difference in handling? as in is it easier to tip?

[RapidRick]

Much better handling, better rebound and compression. If I had a +2 swingarm I'd put that on but alas I don't. It is well worth the time and effort.

[dksix]

I've decided to use the 350x suspension on my gen 1 200x. I'm looking at boring the 200x triple clamps to work with the 350x forks. On the back I'm going to look at just using the shock. It looks like I'll have to rework the mounts on the swing arm and will probably add a couple of inches to it when I do. Getting rid of several of the projects trikes will let me get to work on the couple of things I'm interested in and I'm not going to buy any more bargains.

[ironchop]

I've decided to use the 350x suspension on my gen 1 200x

well I guess I can`t buy that frontend off you now from that CR-motored chassis...lol

[leevarnado]

i dont think you can bore the 200x triple that much to fit 350x forks...i do have a set of 84 250r triples and forks forsale if your interested dksix.

ironchop,pm me i also have 350x triples and forks that i might let go.

[dksix]

well I guess I can`t buy that frontend off you now from that CR-motored chassis...lol

Not while I'm thinking these thoughts, I have have a bigger and better idea tomorrow.


i dont think you can bore the 200x triple that much to fit 350x forks...i do have a set of 84 250r triples and forks forsale if your interested dksix.

ironchop,pm me i also have 350x triples and forks that i might let go.

I was doing some measuring tonight and the 350X forks are 2mm bigger than the 200X forks. Taking 1mm off will leave plenty of meat in the triples. I'm not a jumper so I don't see it being a problem. Set up on the mill will be a chore but I don't see there being any issues with the strength and my riding style. I say trying to fit the 200x forks to my 225 will be the next step, I've always hated the wide front tire on the 225.

[oscarmayer]

me likes this idea lots!
so does the 250r or 350x front setup just bolt onto the 200x?
what if I just used the fork setup off the 350x. will the 200x stuff bolt on? (hub, axle, etc..)

[Dirtcrasher]

Not while I'm thinking these thoughts, I have have a bigger and better idea tomorrow.



I was doing some measuring tonight and the 350X forks are 2mm bigger than the 200X forks. Taking 1mm off will leave plenty of meat in the triples. I'm not a jumper so I don't see it being a problem. Set up on the mill will be a chore but I don't see there being any issues with the strength and my riding style. I say trying to fit the 200x forks to my 225 will be the next step, I've always hated the wide front tire on the 225.

Your only talking .039 per edge, as you know, so I don't see an issue either. The problem with those castings is that near nothing is machined you can hold properly. Possible you could hold the stem, fly cut the lower and make a holding plate for it. The top, you may be able to use the bar clamp flats the same way.

Of course a dial indicator will tell you whether it will work or not. Keep us posted! :beer

[dksix]

DC, I was thinking about it today and I though about adding the 200x style stop to the 350X lower. I don't have a TIG machine but I think I could machine a slot in the 350X lower triple and set an insert in it. I would use 2 dowels and 1 bolt from the under side the custom fit the stop on the 350X lower to the steering stop on my 200x frame. I would probably make the stop out of steel but like this I could get every bit a turn out of it without hitting my tank. That's basically what you said but without welding. Like I said, the set up is what would be a chore. I would about have to make 2 fixtures, 1 for the top and one for the bottom clamp. I was thinking I could hold with a post through one of the fork opening and the stem hole to bore 1 side at a time. I would have to have 2 post, 1 each size of both sets of fork tubes. But, with 2 side unsupported I'm worried about chatter and leaving a rough finish and not having a good clamping surface. It's just something else to add to the list. My tank has been sitting beside the booth for months, I can't work on my stuff for having to keep up with what everyone else wants done.

[Dirtcrasher]

The dowels and slot are a fine thought but the castings are very thin in those places. If it's just a cruiser and show trike, it would be fine. But one bad flip may tear that stop right out.........

I think the front edges where the bolts go through are also machined flat, that may hold better with a fixture of some kind.

I know what you mean about your tank, I'm juggling my stuff and customers stuff at the same time and the weather is always a factor and stops me in my tracks; It's snowing right now!!

[ironchop]

DC, I was thinking about it today and I though about adding the 200x style stop to the 350X lower. I don't have a TIG machine but I think I could machine a slot in the 350X lower triple and set an insert in it. I would use 2 dowels and 1 bolt from the under side the custom fit the stop on the 350X lower to the steering stop on my 200x frame. I would probably make the stop out of steel but like this I could get every bit a turn out of it without hitting my tank. That's basically what you said but without welding. Like I said, the set up is what would be a chore. I would about have to make 2 fixtures, 1 for the top and one for the bottom clamp. I was thinking I could hold with a post through one of the fork opening and the stem hole to bore 1 side at a time. I would have to have 2 post, 1 each size of both sets of fork tubes. But, with 2 side unsupported I'm worried about chatter and leaving a rough finish and not having a good clamping surface. It's just something else to add to the list. My tank has been sitting beside the booth for months, I can't work on my stuff for having to keep up with what everyone else wants done.

that is a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro setup for sure.....you have a boring bar or plan to use and endmill and interpolate the hole?...I did a set of magnesium triples to fit some Ducati tubes a month ago and had a slight chatter issue myself on the first hole....second one I used a boring bar with much better results (but got to cheat as its an electronic boring head and is MUCH easier to dial-in than the old standard deal....don`t suppose you have a 39mm reamer laying on the workbench?....lol

I was just going to machine new trees on CNC VMC but then I`d get to cheat as well since MasterCam makes these short work to draw/program.

Let us know what you figure out

[RapidRick]

I'm lost with all of this boring, 200x stop on 350x bottom triple stuff, and I realize they're your machines and I'm sure your all better builders with better equipment than I, but I don't understand...maybe I don't need to but :wondering

Are you trying to retain the 200X triples so you get a similar rake with using the 350X legs? Remember the 200x has a trailing axle and the 350x a leading axle. Thus if you combine the 200X triples with a 350X leading axle aren't you increasing your rake even more. I'm sure you've already thought about that though.

Maybe I've missed something, just :wondering

All I tried to do was put a 350X front end on a 200X the simplest way I could and it only took a couple of hours. :Bounce

[big red hemi]

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?23716-How-to-put-a-350x-suspension-on-your-200x/page2&highlight=200x+350x+suspension


i think i found the origional thread.
i am interested in this mod too but the pics dont work for me. any one else having this trouble?

if you are out there muddy could ya help us poor bastards out.

[RapidRick]

If leevanardo wants to send me his or I'll take mine apart and use mine. See if I can get several made with a CNC machine out of Aluminum. I can get an idea this weekend, if you guys are really interested.

Here is the thread that got me started on this project.

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=23716&highlight=200x+350x+suspension

[big red hemi]

id buy one in a hart beat!

did you post a link if so it did not take

thanks
jarret

[ironchop]

I'm lost with all of this boring, 200x stop on 350x bottom triple stuff, and I realize they're your machines and I'm sure your all better builders with better equipment than I, but I don't understand...maybe I don't need to but :wondering

Are you trying to retain the 200X triples so you get a similar rake with using the 350X legs? Remember the 200x has a trailing axle and the 350x a leading axle. Thus if you combine the 200X triples with a 350X leading axle aren't you increasing your rake even more. I'm sure you've already thought about that though.

Maybe I've missed something

Nope....yer on the right track, Rick

It`s a combination of rake and trail that effects steering handling....rake being the angle of the neck is measured by running a line from center of headset same angle as the rake to the ground....mark the spot....then run a line from dead center of front axle perpendicular to the ground....measure between the two marks and that number is the trail....the two go hand in hand

I guess those years of building custom MC frames with wicked rakes did teach me something after all.

[RapidRick]

Ok, so by using the 200X triples and the 350X legs with the leading axle you should be increasing the rake and extending the wheel base, correct? Is that the end result that you're after?

[leevarnado]

pm me your address,i'll try to send you the dog bone this weeks end.

[ironchop]

Ok, so by using the 200X triples and the 350X legs with the leading axle you should be increasing the rake and extending the wheel base, correct? Is that the end result that you're after?

in theory, if you use the 200X triples with a 200X frame...the rake angle does not change since the frame remains unmodified at the headset angle and ASSUMING the chassis attitude is still even or level fore to aft (in other words, if you throw a longer frontend on a bike with no increase in rear chassis height, the bike would sit "front-high" and thus change the rake angle in relation to horizontal level ground....raising the rear suspension equal to the change in front suspension height making the chassis "level" again and thus you have put the rake angle back to "stock")

Now, assuming the chassis is back to level, using the 350X fork setup moves the front axle location forward whereas it was trailing axle before...this moves the perpendicular line closer to the line of rake and therefore decreases the "trail"

Now "trail" can be positive, negative, or nuetral (zero trail) when the axle perpendicular centerline moves AHEAD of the rake, line you have positive trail (bad)...neutral or zero trail means the axle and rake lines meet at the same point and negative trail is where the axle CL is behind the rake line...negative trail is necessary on the street and I`m assuming dirt as well but could be wrong

Positive rake makes steering very difficult, make the front tire tend to "flop" from side to side rather than turn, and cause the triples to try and rip out the stops and slam sideways like a caster wheel on a shopping cart that is backwards when you push forward...your front wheel is a rudder arc rather then a pivot arc....negative up to neutral would be ideal...I think 3-5 inches of negative rake is actually ideal for street and i wish I knew what it translated to in trikes...as you get closer to neutral from negative, the trike should steer quicker more like a child`s tricycle but also increase the frontend`s tendency to push at high speed without increased body english to keep from high-siding or rolling the trike...increasing the negative trail or moving the axle farther back will result in slower steering and a better ability to keep the trike stable and in a straight line.

[ironchop]

Ok, so by using the 200X triples and the 350X legs with the leading axle you should be extending the wheel base, correct?

Yes and that increases the turning radius of the machine as well as you already know

[bcredneck]

I'm lost with all of this boring, 200x stop on 350x bottom triple stuff, and I realize they're your machines and I'm sure your all better builders with better equipment than I, but I don't understand...maybe I don't need to but :wondering

Are you trying to retain the 200X triples so you get a similar rake with using the 350X legs? Remember the 200x has a trailing axle and the 350x a leading axle. Thus if you combine the 200X triples with a 350X leading axle aren't you increasing your rake even more. I'm sure you've already thought about that though.

Maybe I've missed something, just :wondering

All I tried to do was put a 350X front end on a 200X the simplest way I could and it only took a couple of hours. :Bounce
all you would have to do is mount the forks trailing so the rake stays the same

[ironchop]

all you would have to do is mount the forks trailing so the rake stays the same

the only way to do that is flip the fork lowers backwards which will not work in soooo many ways...look at your frontend and you`ll see what i`m saying... axle mounting, brake mounting, everything would be screwed up...flipping them backwards also puts the axle lower which will jack the frontend up a hair, increasing the rake and changing the trail

Rake affects trail but TRAIL is what affects handling

The thing is using a leading axle on an 200X that sits level at rest (meaning you also jacked up the rearend so the rake angle doesn`t change) will decrease trail making it a quicker steering machine (meaning moves quicker with less effort on the handlebars...and also more prone to erratic frontend movement from terrain changes requiring a steering stabilizer to compensate) As long as the trail subtraction isn`t enough to get it almost neutral or even positive, this would suffice...I`m guessing the trail would decrease about an inch and a half using a leading axle which probably would NOT be a radical difference in handling but noticeable, for sure.

I wish someone with these mods had the trail measurement handy that way we can compare it with one from a stock 200X chassis

[bcredneck]

you swap sides and flip them around and you can drop the trees a little the only thing that could be a problem is the brake line may be to short

[ironchop]

you swap sides and flip them around and you can drop the trees a little the only thing that could be a problem is the brake line may be to short

LMAO...I forgot about swapping sides beside just flipping them backwards...that might work with lowering the tubes a little in the trees as you mentioned. I don`t think the brakeline would be an issue either...since putting the caliper on the same side as the master just means the 350X brakeline is too long which you could creatively re-route

[bcredneck]

i tryed haveing a trailng axle on my 350x for a bit it seems more tippy and harder to slide so i swaped them back there not the stock forks thou there off a honda street bike there the same length and a little stiffer and they have aircool fins on the bottom
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120444&d=1300945754

[RapidRick]

Thank you for the explanations. I'm happy with the way mine turned out. The geometry of the front end is fine for the riding that I do.

[Dirtcrasher]

He already powder coated the frame and doesn't want to weld new stops on the frame. Thats his only reason for doing it this way.

Some guys ride without stops, there are no 350X triples with stops that work on a 83-85 200X frame.

350X triples are also zero rake, I'm sure someone already mentioned that; IDK what rake is built into the 200X triples.......

[bcredneck]

i saw a 200x with 250r tripples but the rake was just retarded and you need the 250r berrings

[bcredneck]

here it is the front end is back on the 250R now tomas was just borrowing them after his crash
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113446&d=1294416404

[bcredneck]

you see that weird frame in the back ground with a green seat thats a 175 trimoto with a 07 klx 250 motor it was just for ice 2'' ground clearance

[oscarmayer]

so can the 350x or 250r setup just botl right onto the 200x frame? is so, what is the down side of of it if any vs. moding the 200x tripples?