clutchless shifting?

[jellybelly559]

so my clutch broke like half my ride in, i would pull the lever in and it wouldnt activate,so i said f*** it and kept riding just didnt let my bike shut off and was shifting in the high rpms (in the powerband,let off gas for a split second and shift up, stayed in the powerband?) im going to replace the clutch hopefully soon.....anything else i should look for? im kinda scared to look :(

[jellybelly559]

any one know?

[1984 honda 200s]

my mx bike was like that too, only a bit of the clutch left,,, so i power shifted, some people says its ok other say opposite. my dad had a 250xl in his younger years and he always power shifted, had the bike for years and nothing changed, id say good to go? as long as you dont miss a shift especially a 2stroke LOL

[justin4]

i ride my 250r the 84 and i usethe clutch to start and stop that is it. been doing it for a year no prob. (yet) but its got a good clutch in it.

[EarlyBronocGuy]

The only time I use the clutch on my 200x is starting from a stop - once it's moving, it'll shift up and down with no trouble at all, just let off the gas a little.

[jmax857]

my mx bike was like that too, only a bit of the clutch left,,, so i power shifted, some people says its ok other say opposite. my dad had a 250xl in his younger years and he always power shifted, had the bike for years and nothing changed, id say good to go? as long as you dont miss a shift especially a 2stroke LOL

way off, when your clutch wears out, it slips. whether you shift without it or not, its still slipping. if its grabbing too much you either had grooves in your basket or it was improperly set up. second if there is something wrong it is absolutely not okay to keep riding it. fix the problem, last thing you want is for something to actually break and potentially ruin a perfectly good set of r cases.

as for the original post. check your cables, clutch rod, adjuster etc. your best bet is to take off the cover and have a gander.
if your wondering if it is o.k to drive without using the clutch to shift, i use it to start, stop, and dump it once in a while to get my revs up. thats it, if something breaks related to that, no one but yourself is to blame. and yes i have replace my fai share of shift forks.

[Mr_RPM]

if your clutch works, and your not racing to save your life, then learn to ride and use your dang clutch. Id imagine if your not smart enough or to lazy to use it then you wont be looking forward to splitting the case and fixing the trans.

I mean, its as simple as pulling a lever.

But for the OP, i can understand not using the clutch to get back home.
you may be lucky and get away with no clutch for weeks, months, even years.

but, Its not the odds, but whats at risk.
again, using the clutch between shifts is as easy as it gets.
what next, not using the brakes?

lol thats just how I feel. =P

[jellybelly559]

i was push starting it because i was scared it would b worst to start from a stop with no clutch.......i was asking because ive heard both yes and no about using the clutch when your already going...

[jellybelly559]

if your clutch works, and your not racing to save your life, then learn to ride and use your dang clutch. Id imagine if your not smart enough or to lazy to use it then you wont be looking forward to splitting the case and fixing the trans.

I mean, its as simple as pulling a lever.

But for the OP, i can understand not using the clutch to get back home.
you may be lucky and get away with no clutch for weeks, months, even years.

but, Its not the odds, but whats at risk.
again, using the clutch between shifts is as easy as it gets.
what next, not using the brakes?

lol thats just how I feel. =P

this is the first time ive rode with out using the clutch,i prefer to use it just to be safe and make sure i dont mess anything up, i know how to use it its just today it literally wouldnt engage,i was in 6th gear pinned i pulled in the clutch and front brake to start slowing down i stayed on the clutch and break and i was approaching a turn and put it into 2nd or 1st and out of nowhere i felt the gear grab while i had the clutch pulled in so i threw it in neutral as fast as i could so i didnt over rev the engine and blow the piston,rings gaskets, etc. i felt it grab so i called several people and i had 1/2 no and 1/2 yes saying it was okay with no clutch,i would rather ask people with similar machines as me so thats why i started this post,sorry for the essay lol

[1984 honda 200s]

see what i mean LOL! some say ok some say use the clutch. oh and for my mx, the clutch wont grab at all, its fine taking off, you put it in gear witht he clutch pulled in and it wants to jump ahead, cable is adjusted all the way, no difference.

[jmax857]

i was push starting it because i was scared it would b worst to start from a stop with no clutch.......i was asking because ive heard both yes and no about using the clutch when your already going...

yes it works and your bike wont explode as soon as you do it, but over time you will get pre-mature wear on the internals of your transmission in the bike.

[1984 honda 200s]

if your clutch works, and your not racing to save your life, then learn to ride and use your dang clutch. Id imagine if your not smart enough or to lazy to use it then you wont be looking forward to splitting the case and fixing the trans.

I mean, its as simple as pulling a lever.

But for the OP, i can understand not using the clutch to get back home.
you may be lucky and get away with no clutch for weeks, months, even years.

but, Its not the odds, but whats at risk.
again, using the clutch between shifts is as easy as it gets.
what next, not using the brakes?

lol thats just how I feel. =P
breaks just slow me down LMAO :P

[jmax857]

see what i mean LOL! some say ok some say use the clutch. oh and for my mx, the clutch wont grab at all, its fine taking off, you put it in gear witht he clutch pulled in and it wants to jump ahead, cable is adjusted all the way, no difference.

and there is alot more to adjusting a clutch than tightening the cable.

[1984 honda 200s]

i'll start another thread and you tell me how to fix it?

[cr480r]

i was push starting it because i was scared it would b worst to start from a stop with no clutch.......i was asking because ive heard both yes and no about using the clutch when your already going...

the big thing about clutchless shifting is that not everybody is good at it.. just cuz it goes in gear doesnt mean you are doing it right.. the shifter should click just as easy or easier than with the clutch if you are doing it right and being easy on parts.. That being said, there really is no good reason not to use the clutch... i have rode plenty of clutchless machines home for myself and others. Mostly due to broken off levers... But for safety of the rider and machine it needs to be fixed before you take it out again or you are asking for trouble..

[jellybelly559]

yea i already got the plastics and what not off haha shes naked right now :P im gonna have my dad come over tomorrow and were gonna see what needs to be replaced,it was clicking into gear a whole lot easier i just kept it in the higher rpm's and it just went into gear with no problem

[KASEY]

I never use the clutch!!! my kids grew up riding and they never use the clutch... we have no issues . there are times when you need to,, yes.. but 99% of the time not needed,, its called throttle control,,,,, this is on our 350x. 250r 70's anf the 450... never one clutch problem,,,,

[cr480r]

Kasey do you WOT shift clutchless?

[RapidRick]

breaks just slow me down LMAO :P

Brakes, these things have brakes :wondering


I never use the clutch!!! my kids grew up riding and they never use the clutch... we have no issues . there are times when you need to,, yes.. but 99% of the time not needed,, its called throttle control,,,,, this is on our 350x. 250r 70's anf the 450... never one clutch problem,,,,

Geez, if you never use the clutch why would you ever have a problem with it. :Bounce

[jmax857]

Kasey do you WOT shift clutchless?

next time your driving a standard vehicle, put it in second gear while driving and slightly put pressure towards third. at the optimal rpm the vehicle will almost "fall into gear" without using the clutch. same with a bike. at the right rpm it will slide into gear, no problems.

[cr480r]

next time your driving a standard vehicle, put it in second gear while driving and slightly put pressure towards third. at the optimal rpm the vehicle will almost "fall into gear" without using the clutch. same with a bike. at the right rpm it will slide into gear, no problems.

ya i know all about that. I've driven dump trucks off and on for years... Even had a pickup i drove for almost a year with no clutch at all... I hinted at gear matching in a previous post in this thread. But just curious, whats it got to do with me asking Kasey about wide open shifting?

[Kintore]

I never use the clutch!!! my kids grew up riding and they never use the clutch... we have no issues . there are times when you need to,, yes.. but 99% of the time not needed,, its called throttle control,,,,, this is on our 350x. 250r 70's anf the 450... never one clutch problem,,,,


Ditto!

All my machines, race trikes, trail all of them jazz. Clutch to start and bang away after that. On 250rs, my TT450r all of it.
Never had a issue yet. And when ima racing, im not exactly easy on it at all. Itll be fine

[deschlayer]

atc's have brakes?

[Lil Earl]

so just curious, when you shift without a clutch, do you let off the gas or what

[1984 honda 200s]

yeah have it in the hier rpm's, let off the gas and shift then back on the gas. if your to low of rpm then it wont go into gear as easy,

[jellybelly559]

i was letting off the gas and it seemed to go right into gear.....

[Mr_RPM]

lol, you guys are nuts. =P
Im just the type who wears seat belts and changes my oil alot more then recommended. lol I'm just a bit more conservative and protective over my machines.

[jmax857]

lol, you guys are nuts. =P
Im just the type who wears seat belts and changes my oil alot more then recommended. lol I'm just a bit more conservative and protective over my machines.

what are these seatbelts you speak of?

[jellybelly559]

yes what are those?

[Xpress]

They're the things that can get you a big ass ticket down here... And cops are GOOD at spotting out people who don't wear them... Buckle up.

I never shift without using the clutch. Just easer to do so.

If your clutch goes out, or breaks, or something, then you can get away without using it for the ride back home. I've had it happen to me a few times already, you just have to syncro everything and the bike will shift very easily. I've had to do it on my Jeep one time when my clutch went out, just syncro the gears and you can literally shift without the clutch.

KASEY, can I have all of your clutch disks then, since you don't use them? :lol::p:p:postwhore

[KASEY]

its funny,,, i have been watching all these posted helmet cam videos.. and some people really do use the clutch alot... i guess i need to make a video with a bar cam then you can see how much i use the clutch too,,,, i would say 90% of the time i just change gears without thinking.. and in some situations you do need the clutch... time to build a barcam mount...

[NINJA]

I never use the clutch!!! my kids grew up riding and they never use the clutch... we have no issues . there are times when you need to,, yes.. but 99% of the time not needed,, its called throttle control,,,,, this is on our 350x. 250r 70's anf the 450... never one clutch problem,,,,

^Agreed!^ I used to be a "clutch nazi" myself up until a couple years ago. Now I only use the clutch for taking off and for feathering to get my RPMs up. 2 years on this transmission and I ride 2-3 days a week on the average. No problems.

[1984 honda 200s]

yeah see some people say yes some say no,, you really need a clutch for rough trail riding, and for stopping and taking off. most of the time you dont think when you shift, it just happends...

[Xpress]

I think about shifting all the time :lol:

I guess it's what you learned on. I use the clutch all the time, it's just a gut instinct about what to do when the RPM's get up high enough.

[EarlyBronocGuy]

They're the things that can get you a big ass ticket down here... And cops are GOOD at spotting out people who don't wear them... Buckle up.

I never shift without using the clutch. Just easer to do so.

If your clutch goes out, or breaks, or something, then you can get away without using it for the ride back home. I've had it happen to me a few times already, you just have to syncro everything and the bike will shift very easily. I've had to do it on my Jeep one time when my clutch went out, just syncro the gears and you can literally shift without the clutch.

KASEY, can I have all of your clutch disks then, since you don't use them? :lol::p:p:postwhore

Yep, my 5.0 Mustang broke a clutch cable while driving around town, had to drive home in afternoon traffic with no clutch. Wasn't that hard, really - if I had to stop, just shifted into neutral and coasted to stop and shut off the engine. To get moving, I'd put the shifter in 1st and start the engine - the starter would get the car rolling and the engine would fire up almost instantly, as speed increased just slip shifter out of gear and gently push it into the next gear while matching engine and road speed, shifting down was the same way. What took some doing was slowing down into 1st gear, getting the garage door open by remote, chugging up the steep driveway, and pulling into the garage and getting it stopped without running into the back wall.

[1984 honda 200s]

lmao duh eh !!!!!! yeah when the rpms get a lil hi its time to throw it into a higher gear....common sence. thanks for that.

[jensenracing77]

if you are good at shifting without the clutch there is no difference in using it and not using it. when i raced full time i would start out the race using it but by the last couple laps i couldn't use it or i would fall off. i didn't have the energy to stay on the bike if i let loose of the bars any at all. in a race like that there is no easy way to not use the clutch, there is just hammer the gears. it takes longer to shift without the clutch if you are going to do it smoothly.

[Dirtcrasher]

Some turns you just can't physically use the clutch.

Many times my fastest times are without a clutch aside from powering out of a corner in a gear 1 gear too high..........

[Mr_RPM]

Back when I had machines with ,manual clutches, i got soo used to pulling the lever without thinking that when back on an auto clutch I would grab the rear brake between shifts
lol.

[jellybelly559]

i had a closer look at everything without tearing into the engine and tightened all the cables.....its good slipping a little but im not worried about thet...yet but it was just the inside threading where the cable goes to the lever....its almost completely stripped inside

[200XMichigan]

Back when I had machines with ,manual clutches, i got soo used to pulling the lever without thinking that when back on an auto clutch I would grab the rear brake between shifts
lol.

First time I got on my YT175 that's what I did. Big old handful of rear brake. If it didn't have a parking brake I would just remove the lever. But on some steep descents I have likes having my brake on the handlebar.

Why not use the clutch? I can see if you are racing and its a matter of winning or not. Just wondering, other than emergency, why shift without using the clutch?

[snakpacs]

look at an exploded view of your tranny in your service manual. you can see why you dont need to clutch for every shift. oh yea and the talk about shifting a car/truck with no clutch, completely different design. apples and oranges my friends haha not trying to be a dick, just sayin. on your bike just let off the throttle and pop her up or down. as someone mentioned before,,, throttle control!

[KASEY]

for one thing smooth throttle control without the clutch shifting is easier on the transmission.. you get less loading and unloading which makes a big difference in the shock loading on the gears,,, but no matter how you do it .. one pass up the hill WFO banging the gears with the throttle pinned and the clutch slamming is alot worse that a years worth of goofing off riding,,,, transmissions are tough,,, they can handle it.,....

[jensenracing77]

transmissions are tough,,, they can handle it.,.... except for 2001 660 raptors, lol. you can blow the transmission out of one of them just by hauling it in the bead of the truck in gear and no straps.

[jmax857]

except for 2001 660 raptors, lol. you can blow the transmission out of one of them just by hauling it in the bead of the truck in gear and no straps.

u can blow them just looking at them.

[Mosh]

I am going to play devils advocate here.
I have split many engines and quite few for shifting issues.
IMO, I don't care what anyone says or how they do it, shifting without the clutch will eventually ruin your gears and shift forks. If you break a cable and have to limp a machine back to camp at low speeds and loads and back off the throttle while shifting, I doubt any damage will be done. But I personally would not advise regular riding in that fashion.

Josh, I just did your old 250r engine that went through 3 different racers, and I had to replace one of the third gears due to hogged out engagement dogs.



If you are the person that rides a bike for a few years and sells it, then I guess it would not really matter. But if you are holding on to your bike as long as possible, personally I would not make a habit out of not using the clutch. Especially with a 250R, since about 80 % of the trans parts are now discontinued.
Here is a few threads showing the damage it does.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?57961-Tri-Z-quot-Mashed-quot-Gear&highlight=transmission+gears

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?99090-Engagment-dogs&highlight=transmission+gears

[Mr_RPM]

If you are the person that rides a bike for a few years and sells it, then I guess it would not really matter. But if you are holding on to your bike as long as possible, personally I would not make a habit out of not using the clutch.


100% agree

[Kintore]

Josh, I just did your old 250r engine that went through 3 different racers, and I had to replace one of the third gears due to hogged out engagement dogs.



I stand corrected then, That motor was built from Hall into Brandons(3leg) race trike, for 2 seasons I think. I ran it for 1.5 seasons, then snake ran it for another 1.5-2 seasons.

We are not easy on trannys, at all. I know how we all ride.