What's up with this stock 250R seat.... Possible '87 R??

[Jeb]

Look at the ATC logo.

See how the "A" is filled in with a second triangle? Also, there is no blue line through the ATC. It sure looks like a nice stock seat.

Look at the other ATC seat pic. It's stock 86. Has the blue line through the ATC logo and no triangle in the "A".

Look at the pic of the 87 ATCs. The 250R It's hard to tell but I believe it has the triangle and no line. If you have a bigger pic of the 87 R's it would be easier to tell.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87320&d=1263436511
Interesting......... :-D.

[86waterpumper]

You are right Jeb I just looked at the 87 brochure picture, and it looks just like that seat. Where did you find that pic??? Whoever has that seat might have more parts!

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/download.php?id=6181

[Jeb]

Thanks WaterPumper! Pretty Interesting, huh?


:-D

[86waterpumper]

yes yes it is...as far as I'm concerned, it is the most concrete evidence that I have seen so far, assuming that the brochure is authentic and all. I am confused with why the 350x seat didn't get the upgraded look as well. I take it you're not going to reveal your source of who has the seat LMAO...I don't blame ya :P

*edit* nevermind on the source LOL :twisted:

[fishy_inn]

Is it from an 87? We need details! :twisted:

[Darius1502]

The 87 200x did not have any lettering on the sides and the 86 had the 'ATC' logo like the 86 250R....


....this is really interesting!! Wow...someone has to track thing down and figure out where it came from!!!!!!!

Its like finding a 'bigfoot' foot print!!! EXCITING!!

[ejc042]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43970&item=2437692292

[Billy Golightly]

Oh man.....verrrry interesting. The only things I can see different within the two (And it might just be the quality of the 87 brochure is that the seat pictured, the T seems to go over and be a apart of the C. Whereas in the brochure it doesn't really look like it. I wonder if Tim (ThreeWheelio) still has that brochure.

[86250RZ]

WOW Jeb :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:. You just mite be the first person ever to prove that the 87 250R or parts of it really did exist. Nice find.

[ATC crazy]

Thats a kick ass find JEB :-D :-P :!:

Now we're one step closer to proving that there are '87's :-P

[Jeb]

I've seen the ATC logo that way before. But I don't remember seeing a stock 250R seat like that. I believe the logo is done that way on the side of some X fenders? With the little triangle in the A being red and the rest blue. FOUND IT... It's on the 87 200X. (See Pic)

Anyway, maybe closer to proving 86-1/2 models or something. If you order a brand new seat cover for an 86 from Honda, what do you get? this logo or the other?

Something else I was thinking of, we all know that new year models of vehicles are released anytime usually from september of the prior year and on. Maybe some were sold in 86? Who knows?


MRATC's thoughts on it would be interesting.

[HemiChallenger71]

I E-mailed the guy asking nicely how he got that seat. Hopefully he replies. See how high the price is going???

[86waterpumper]

hemi challenger, jez n faye will pay top dollar for anything. I've seen them pay absurd amounts for 3 wheeler brochures and parts. They must be making a trike museum over there on the other side of the big lake LMAO

i wonder if all the literature such as the parts fiches and service manuals show the oldschool one or the new one

[Howdy]

hemi challenger, jez n faye will pay top dollar for anything. I've seen them pay absurd amounts for 3 wheeler brochures and parts. They must be making a trike museum over there on the other side of the big lake LMAO

i wonder if all the literature such as the parts fiches and service manuals show the oldschool one or the new one

I got a 86 partsfiche at the shop. Now to remember to look it up. lol
Howdy

[350x'inNY]

Do you guys think that Honda might have had a couple of them made up as promo/test models and then just tossed them into replacement part inventory? :?: I don't remember any aftermarket companies having 'HONDA' on the back of the seats. :?

Bruce

[CHAINSAW]

I dont know about the cover, but that is a TRX seat pan. See how it fits it has a lip on the very edge, and drops down real far. The TRX seat pans fall down inside the fender. The ATC fit on and bolt on top.
Also the seat bracket is to far back for an ATC. The ATC's fit below and are covered by the pan, see how that one stick out of the back like the TRXs do.

Like I said, I cant say anything for the cover..... but it does look like the pic of the 87 (very cool, Ill agree). As for the pan, it is a TRX that looks like it was converted to fit an ATC.
My theory is, this seat was savaged from the cut up 87s and survived this long (we all know the story of chopping up all 87 250R ATCs in 3 pieces.. I have seen proof of that myself)

[ScottZJ]

Well dont want to burst any bubbles on this(cuz its cool) but there is a place in california that will put whatever you want on the sides and back of seat covers for around 65$. I remember calling them cuz I wanted 350X on the side.........peace

[Billy Golightly]

Well dont want to burst any bubbles on this(cuz its cool) but there is a place in california that will put whatever you want on the sides and back of seat covers for around 65$. I remember calling them cuz I wanted 350X on the side.........peace


Yes, but what are the chances of someone seeing the 87 ATC's brochure here on the site (I say here because this is the only place I've ever seen it, even MR ATC when I first showed it to him said he'd never seen it before) Finding a company to print that on the seatcover, and getting the company an accurate enough picture to make the seat cover like that, then to list it on ebay and sell it? Possible, but slim in my opinon.

[350x'inNY]

Chainsaw..... indulge us in the '3 pieces' story of chopping up the '87's. I know they crated leftover '86 350X motors, but what did they do with the rest of the bikes?

Scott.... If you are talking about Hi-Flite in CA, they do not do full HONDA replicas due to copyright and $$$$ when HONDA tried to take them to court!

Bruce

[350Xccelerator]

my cousins friend makes him custom seat covers for any atc, atv or dirt bike, he told me that he could put whatever i wanted on a seat cover, my cousin said that he does amazing work. When i need a new seat cover he'll be the first person i call. :-D

[3WheelHouston]

Let's make bootleg 87 seatcovers and sell them to unsuspecting victims on ebay for absurd amounts of money! :twisted: j/k

[MR ATC]

Yes, but what are the chances of someone seeing the 87 ATC's brochure here on the site (I say here because this is the only place I've ever seen it, even MR ATC when I first showed it to him said he'd never seen it before) Finding a company to print that on the seatcover, and getting the company an accurate enough picture to make the seat cover like that, then to list it on ebay and sell it? Possible, but slim in my opinon.


yes this was the first place i saw the brocher but, 87 250R pics have been around since sept 86 when 3wheeling mag. showed a promtional pic of the 87 that was supposed to be avalible in canada.

i used to do screenprinting and it would not be hard to take a 86 seat cover and take it to a screenprinter and "fill" in the A like the 87 style.

i'm not saying this is the case but it would be simple enough.

also it could just be a "87" part because Honda may have done a little parts update. let me explaine with a example...

i had a 1986 CR 500. the "CR" logo was outlined in white but the inside of the "CR" was blue. in "87" the CR was solid and slanted. when i laid my 500 down one day i ripped the cover. when i ordered a new Honda cover although i ordered a "86' cover, the cover i got actually had the 87 logo. when i asked them why they said thats all that was avalible Honda updated the logo and thats what you got. nowadays thats not the case but i have a good reason to belive that back then the seatcover supplier did not keep previouse years patterns.


who knows, and personally i like the 86 style better, but if this seat goes really high i just may fill in my 86 cover and sell it as a 87 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[NOS_350X]

i dont see how a company could get away with making a repleca. the HONDA on the back makes it so that they would get in HUGE trouble for it.

[ScottZJ]

i dont see how a company could get away with making a repleca. the HONDA on the back makes it so that they would get in HUGE trouble for it.

Well they were going to make me a cover with either ATC or 350X on the side...dont think they were going to put honda on the back. But I have a bro that is hooking me up instead anyway...........peace

[Thebasher]

I emailed the guy and here is the responce that I got.


NO! its off an 86, i took off myself! I know 3 wheelers inside and out. An
87 is a very rare 250r not many were made that year because of the law.
Thanks Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: <thebasher@aol.com>
To: <sassysherbert@tds.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 3:46 PM
Subject: Question for seller -- Item #2437692292

[HemiChallenger71]

here's what he said in two e-mails to me:

You know, I checked out the other 86 seat I have and the writing ATC is different, it may be an 87 after all??? The seat cover looks stock to me, not after-market. Can't say for sure, thanks ,
Mark

I took it off an 86 250r 3 wheeler I have. I don't know what is so special about these seats ( I've had lots of emails about it) I have had 15 250r 3 wheelers in my lifetime. Thanks for your interest, Mark


I wrote him back telling him to check the tag on the frame and also told him that 87's are non existant. This was at approximatley 7:00 pm friday eastern time.

[NOS_350X]

stop harassing the poor guy

[Darius1502]

keep trying to find out some info....they guy may know about ATC's but he may let proof of an 87R slip right by as well.

[jason85atc250r]

burgard cycles near york PA found a guy in loisanna i think that knew of the scrap yard that had a lot of parts from the cut up 3 wheelers. he got about 150 complete rear ends from swing arm back. he got mostly 85 and 86 atc 250r's and some 85 and 86 350x's . and alot of nice fenders and headlites from 250r's and 350x's. he got a couple 350x engines andc a 86 200x and 250sx engine. he got the stuff about 5 years ago. i got mint front fenders and scoops from him. the place just had the stuff heaped in a big pile. i remember around 1988 at my local honda dealer you could get the wheels,tires and hubs from the cut up atc's for $80 a piece. they cut the frame in half thats what i heard.

[NOS_350X]

jason you have the number of the place that has all these "cut up" atc's i need some parts

[jason85atc250r]

i don't have the number of the place that he got the stuff from. he does not want to really mees with the used parts anymore so most of the time when you call he tells you he don't have it. he is real busy making the aftermarkat swingarms and stuff like lonestar does for 4 wheelers. i have not been down there in two years. i know he had a couple mint headlites for a 350x. had alot of swingarms and brake rotors and hubs also. he has alot of 350x's and 250r's he parted out for the guys racing 4 wheelers. alot of the 350x engines whet into trx 250r frames. he bought out nac's when they quit selling used parts. his number is 717-225-6234. let meknow if he don't answer and maybe i could run down and see.

[CHAINSAW]

Chainsaw..... indulge us in the '3 pieces' story of chopping up the '87's. I know they crated leftover '86 350X motors, but what did they do with the rest of the bikes?


Now I dont know the whole story, so Im just telling the few parts I know. They were cut up in 3 pieces.. Front forks, including headlights, tire, and controls. The wires were even cut, not unplugged. Then the motor, including radiators, carbs, and everything connected to the frame around the motor footpegs and skid plate. Then the swing arm assembly along with axle and rear rims and tires.
Myself personally, have never seen a rear end assembly, but have seen remains of a front section (some parts were allready robbed) , and I have seen 2 motor sections.
I wish I knew more, but can only say what I have seen, and heard from the people who owned these parts I saw. They were 3 seperate people, in 2 different states. So my first theory of a local chop shop after I saw the first motor section, became false when I saw my second a few months later, 200 miles away.
As for all 3, none had plastic, and said when they bought the parts, no plastic was included, or seats.

[jason85atc250r]

when burgards cycles got the parts the rear ends was a complete swing arm with the axle,carrier,brakes,brake rotor,sproket,shock and linkage. the master cylinder and hose was still attached to the caliper. i got a couple of the brand new sprokets from him they were from a 1985 atc 250r. so it was not only the 87 they cut up it was alot of leftover 85's and 86's. he still has alot of the stock 85 250r swingarms left.

[NOS_350X]

you dont you put this pic in the "quest for 87 atc's" and say somthing like
when it looked like all hope was lost for the 87 250r this poped up on ebay. we cant explain it but it definently fires the want to find out, Is there a 87 250r?

[Jeb]

...Myself personally, have never seen a rear end assembly...

Now you have! :-D SEE PIC

This was on ebay a few months ago. I saved it because I thought it was depressing. :D

The guy claimed it was one of the cut up trikes you speak of. BUT, it appears to me from the pic that this is an 85. Judging by the floating rear caliper and the looks of the Tail Light mount. (I've learned allot about R's the last couple months! :D ) It sure looks like brand new stuff. I don't remember what year the guy claimed it was. seems like it was listed 85/86.

[Dirtcrasher]

Oh my god, that thing is beheaded! Jeb, any idea what it ended up going for?? some very nice parts there!

[Jez]

Yeah, you're right Jeb. It's an '85. There've been a few on eBay this year as I recall and they've all been '85's. See below for another one of the eBay ones. I beleive they both went for about US$500 or so.

[Dirtcrasher]

Those images are haunting me!!!!

[350Xccelerator]

good lord, thats horrible :(

[CHAINSAW]

makes you sick doesnt it? Welp, now I have seen a complete chopped up trike.. and Im still mad about it.. lol
That does answer one of my questions though... who did the actual chopping? Had to be dealers. I dont think the factory would of kept complete trikes in stock for over a year or two? I could be wrong, but if they treat ATVs like they do cars, once they leave the factory, they never return.
So if it is true that 85's and 86's were cut up at the dealers, then if any 87's ever made it to a dealer, there is a slight, one in a million chance there could be one stashed in the back of some guys shop somewhere, waiting to be sold for 20K on ebay.....

[85bigred250es]

I would think Honda would have kept the part that were interchangable with previous years rather than destroy them. They donate the engines to schools in North America and have the wearhouse strip the remainder of the trike down. Sounds about right. Then get rid of the plastic from the 87 models and chop the frames. And finally act like the 87's never existed.

[Dirtcrasher]

I dont know about the cover, but that is a TRX seat pan. See how it fits it has a lip on the very edge, and drops down real far. The TRX seat pans fall down inside the fender. The ATC fit on and bolt on top.
Also the seat bracket is to far back for an ATC. The ATC's fit below and are covered by the pan, see how that one stick out of the back like the TRXs do.

Like I said, I cant say anything for the cover..... but it does look like the pic of the 87 (very cool, Ill agree). As for the pan, it is a TRX that looks like it was converted to fit an ATC.
My theory is, this seat was savaged from the cut up 87s and survived this long (we all know the story of chopping up all 87 250R ATCs in 3 pieces.. I have seen proof of that myself)


My 85 250R seat brackets sit out exactly that far and it is an ATC. I think maybe you don't notice them because the fender is removed, my fender is off and I tossed the bracket on just so not to lose the bolts and it's just like that. Not sure about the lip though. I don't think thats a clear "not 87R indication" look around and you'll see.

Other than that, were there any changes to the 87R?? Of course it is rare and we'd all love to have it but anything desirable about it other than the looks??

[jason85atc250r]

thats the exact condition the parts were in when burgards cycle got the ones he has to sell. he did not get the frame and airbox. it was ashame how many he got from the guy and knowing how many atc's 250r's and 350x's were ruined. almost makes you want to cry. he was buying them from the guy down there for $150 a piece. that local guy called him and told him about them so he was probably getting them cheaper and reselling them to burgards.

[MPNX2]

Hasnt anyone just gone down to there local Honda dealers and asked about these mysterious '87 trikes?? My local dealer here is a pretty cool guy and has onwed the local shop here since at least '84. I think I might just have to run down and ask some questions....

[MPNX2]

Hasnt anyone just gone down to there local Honda dealers and asked about these mysterious '87 trikes?? My local dealer here is a pretty cool guy and has onwed the local shop here since at least '84. I think I might just have to run down and ask some questions....

I forgot that h is closed on Mondays I will try and squeeze some info on this topic from him tomorrow. I will post what I find out here. I am pretty shocked that there is so little information available about these things..

[Billy Golightly]

I think most of the people here on the board are probably pretty good friends with their dealership, but my problem (And probably others) is that they haven't been around that long. I didn't have a Honda dealer within a 2 hour drive until 2000.

[ejc042]

My Honda dealer has been around since the early 80s and he looked at me like I had two heads when I asked about 1987 250Rs. He said he had never even heard of one. And of course he looked in the Honda book and it was not listed. I called another dealer about an hour away that has been around a while and he laughed when I askrd about an 87 250R and said there was no such machine.

[ATCMedic]

I picked up one of those rearends for my project 85 250r last year, it's obvious that it was never run before being stripped. I was kinda wondering about why it was stripped to beging with, as I wasn't told it was from a dealer teardown. This answers that question.

[threewheelin-feelin]

yeah the way i look at it is if they put 87's out in 86 there has got to be a small amount of 250r's and 350x's out there . seems like there would be some 88's out there to i dont know maybe we can get all 87 350x parts and 250r parts and put to 87s together hehe

[Baird]

i have that same seat on my 250r down in the barn same with the 1987 engine

[bkm]

i have that same seat on my 250r down in the barn same with the 1987 engine
Oh yeah new guy. Put your Pics where your mouth is.

[ATCeeya]

i just read this thread before seeing it was bumped from 2003

[thcowboy]

holy thread bump