89 or 86 cr250? Good bad an ugly

[jellybelly559]

So I picked up a 2000 xr100 today to trade it for a cr250.....the guy has 2 so I have to pick one. The 89 needs a seal I believe? Rad fluid and tranny oil are mixing some how? The 86 has a different motor he said it's a completely different motor that's powervalved? Picking one up this weekend....not sure what one? I'm leaning towards the 89 because it's newer....help a young one out with advice/ pros and cons of each bike

[Red Rider]

The 86-91 CR250R's used the same basic powervalve system with minor changes each year. I've never ridden or owned any of those CR's, but I am familiar with their HPP powervalve systems. I also would lean toward the 89 because it's newer, and should be more refined over the 86 model, plus it looks better with that dark red plastic as opposed to the orangish red of the earlier models. The waterpump seal isn't all that difficult to replace to prevent the bike from "making taffy."

[rayatc84]

89' for me because it's more recent and modern: rear disk brake, Upside down front fork, low boy exhaust, etc...
Because of the Production rules, the last Factory bikes were in 1986, and from 1987 the productions bikes became even more efficient.

[oldskool83]

my fav style bikes are the 86's but 89 gives you usd forks, rear disk brake...id go 89 unless the 86 was in fantastic shape.

[code200k]

go with the 89,I had one and it was beat but sadly traded for an 84 R..If you need a service manual for either bike i have one.

[jellybelly559]

well i made up my mind i was thinking the 89 mostly because its more modern, what all do i have to do for the water seal pump? im going to need help or like step by step for that, ill post the craigslist link, http://visalia.craigslist.org/mcy/2376289592.html

[jellybelly559]

o and he said the 89 carb needed cleaned then he looked at it thats all good but he put the 86 carb on it because its better? any input on that on which is the better carb?

[jellybelly559]

The 86-91 CR250R's used the same basic powervalve system with minor changes each year. I've never ridden or owned any of those CR's, but I am familiar with their HPP powervalve systems. I also would lean toward the 89 because it's newer, and should be more refined over the 86 model, plus it looks better with that dark red plastic as opposed to the orangish red of the earlier models. The waterpump seal isn't all that difficult to replace to prevent the bike from "making taffy." o by the way man i love your R i saw the website you have for it.....beautiful man beautiful

[code200k]

well i made up my mind i was thinking the 89 mostly because its more modern, what all do i have to do for the water seal pump? im going to need help or like step by step for that, ill post the craigslist link, http://visalia.craigslist.org/mcy/2376289592.html

pm me.Ill sell you the book or just copy the section you neeed

[dksix]

The 86 had a 36mm and the 89 had a 38mm.

[jellybelly559]

Ok.....I called around and the parts are over 100 around here

[code200k]

Ok.....I called around and the parts are over 100 around here

for a water pump seal?
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1989-honda-cr250r/o/m11898#sch612968

[Red Rider]

o by the way man i love your R i saw the website you have for it.....beautiful man beautifulJellybelly, thanks. No matter which one you decide on, the 86 or 89, make sure you get a manual for it. As I said before, both bikes have the same powervalve system, which is easy to work on, once you understand it. Most problems (and damage) arise from people working on the HPP system that have no understanding of it, which results in wasted time, and damage to parts that are getting awfully hard to find these days. I'm glad to help from here, (which sometimes means waiting several hours for an answer) but it's a whole lot easier when you have the manual sitting right in front of you.

[jellybelly559]

Yea.....no I need the water pump shaft the water seal and oil seal

[cr480r]

i would take '86 forks over '89

[code200k]

try ebay for the water pump shaft

[jellybelly559]

How do I check the waterpump shaft? I want to check if it's good so I know if I have to replace the seels or seels and shaft......over $100 and don't have the money lmao I need help!!!!

[jellybelly559]

O and I'm scared that something major is wrong in the tranny!!!! When I went to go check it out I put it in gear to see if all the gears catch and it went into first but I can't get it out of gear now!!!!! Seriously need help I don't know if I got myself into something that I can't pay for!!!

[Red Rider]

I wouldn't expect the waterpump shaft to be bad, just the seals. Is there some reason why you think the shaft may need to be replaced? As far as the transmission goes, if you can't shift it through all of the gears, and you don't feel comfortable with it, then don't make the trade.

[jellybelly559]

i dont think its bad but the cycle shop around where i live said ou have to replace it when u replace the seals, not sure if theyre just trying to make more money or what,ive already made the trade i drove a couple hours away from where i live and i wasnt leaving with what i took,so what could it be with the transmission? it doesnt want to get out of gear at all

[Red Rider]

The only reason the waterpump shaft would need to be replaced is if it's bent or worn down for some reason. For the stuck gear, try rocking the bike back & forth, while in gear, while shifting it back into neutral. The fact that the transmission has a mixture of coolant & gear lube, or "taffy" as I like to call it, lubricating it isn't helping the transmission's shifting capability. I'll flip through my CR manual & see if I can come up with any suggestions for you to try, but this type of issue isn't the easiest to diagnose over the internet.

[jellybelly559]

the shaft shopuld be good then,ive tried rocking the bike back and forth while shifting, u i can make a video and upload it to my youtube account and post it on here?

[jellybelly559]

how should i clean the transmission? just run oil through it a couple times or is here another more effective way?

[Red Rider]

the shaft shopuld be good then,ive tried rocking the bike back and forth while shifting...In the cooling system section of my manual, it does say, "inspect the waterpump shaft for signs of wear." That's a pretty common statement in repair manuals, as well as common sense. Personally, I've never seen one get worn out, but I suppose it could happen since the shaft is spinning inside the oil & water seals.

In the troubleshooting section, it has a diagnosis for "difficult shifting", and says to check for:
Damaged gears
Damaged shift forks
Damaged shift drum
Incorrect mainshaft & countershaft engagement
Damaged shift lever assembly
Incorrect clutch disengagement

All of those will require splitting the cases to access, except for the last 2. For the last 2, only the right side clutch cover needs to be removed to access the parts.


how should i clean the transmission? just run oil through it a couple times or is here another more effective way?Obviously, the best way is to split the cases and clean thoroughly. If you get the waterpump leak fixed, I suppose you might be able to get away with changing the transmission oil after each ride several times, but I would be worried about your clutch plates/fibers getting gummed up with that "taffy" crap though.

When I was a teen, my neighbor's KX80 was makin' taffy big time. We removed the right side clutch cover, clutch plates, and repaired the waterpump leak (replaced seals). While we had the clutch cover off, we pulled the engine out of the frame, and rinsed the transmission internals with clean gas (nowadays I'd use solvent instead - a lot less dangerous). We sloshed the gas around inside the trans while tipping the engine every which way. We also shifted the trans through each gear while spinning the trans gears via the countershaft sprocket, and then we'd pour the gas out. We repeated this process several times until the gas looked like it was coming out pretty clean. We probably used about 2-3 gallons of gas to accomplish this. After rotating it every which way to get all of the gas out, we let it sit for a day to air out & evaporate the gas. Then we added fresh oil & rotated the engine & shafts every which way to re-lubricate the insides, and then drained that out. Finally, we reinstalled the engine, clutch plates, right side clutch cover, and added fresh oil again. After the first ride, we checked the oil, and it looked okay. I personally would have changed it again, but he didn't want to bother with it. The bike ran fine with no trans or waterpump issues after that.

[jellybelly559]

im gonna have my godmothers dad check it out,i dont trust myself splitting the cases he said he'll do any work if i get a manual for it and pay for the parts afterwards,im gonna have him do it,i have to take the motor out of the frame i already have all the motor mount bolt sout except for the swingarm,is there anything else i have to take off besides just the carb?

[code200k]

here is a pic of the book i have this bike...20 bucks shipped,let me know

[Red Rider]

im gonna have my godmothers dad check it out,i dont trust myself splitting the cases he said he'll do any work if i get a manual for it and pay for the parts afterwards,im gonna have him do it,i have to take the motor out of the frame i already have all the motor mount bolt sout except for the swingarm,is there anything else i have to take off besides just the carb?To remove the engine, anything that's connected to the engine will need to be removed or disconnected (chain, carburetor, electrical connections, coolant hoses, etc.). If the cases are going to be split, the cylinder & head will need to be removed, and it's a lot easier to remove that stuff when the engine is still held securely in the frame. When I need to split cases, I do as much disassembly as possible with the engine still in the frame. It makes it a whole lot easier trying to remove those stubborn, tight bolts when the engine isn't flopping all over the place.

If you don't have a manual yet, that sounds like a decent deal for code200k's manual.

[jellybelly559]

I would get it from him but I need it by Friday,just gonna go pick one up,everythings disconnected and all the mounting bolts are off still can't seem to get it out of the frame though,any advice? It's being stubborn and just not coming out at all

[Xhumeka]

If it's anything like the 250R ATC, you probably need to remove the swing-arm and engine mounts in order to rotate the engine enough to squeeze it out. Obviously remove the carb and boots too.

Did you get it out of gear yet? That's a really strange problem, especially if it was running fine when you picked it up. Try contacting the seller and see if it's ever done that to him before.

Here is a repair manual for the 81-87 CR250Rs... sorry, I don't have an '89 version.

http://www.ragefaction.info/images/psych0/orv/manuals/CR250R-500R/Honda%20CR250R-500R%20PRO-LINK%20(81-87)%20Repair%20Manual.pdf

[jellybelly559]

No it wasn't running....I ended up getin it out I had to remove the swingarm,is there any way to stiffen up the suspension without replacing it with a newer bikes suspension? Just the rear

[jellybelly559]

ok guys! finally got it tooken all apart (kinda just forgot about it over summer because money) but i have the money to fix it i got it out of gear the guy i got it from didnt connect the shifter all the way or something stupid......im gonna have to do a full top end job ( sleeve,piston,etc) but was wondering if there is a steel sleave i can buy for it instead of renikelsiling the original or getting a nikel siled sleeve

[Red Rider]

Does your current cylinder have a sleeve, or is it the stock nikasil plated aluminum cylinder? If it is the stock cylinder, I personally would leave it that way (unsleeved), and just get it repaired/replated if necessary. I tried an '89 CR250 cylinder that was sleeved once, and it worked fine until the first oversize bore, then the sleeve was too thin, which caused the exhaust bridge portion of the sleeve to bulge out when it would heat up, gouging my piston & rings. In the long run, it'll be less expensive to repair/replate a cylinder, than to have one sleeved, without any of the headaches associated with a sleeve, such as mentioned above as well as the infamous leaky head gasket due to an improperly installed sleeve. The only advantage re-sleeving has over nikasil is that it can bored a few times, but with the CR250 cylinder, that just wasn't the case for me.

[jellybelly559]

its the stock sleeve but to renikel it is 300 at a shop down here but to just get a new stock sleeve in is 100 plus the sleeve so 200 total.....im thinking about getting a stock sleeve and seeing how long it lasts....the shop is real good at making sure its a tight fit (my buddy gets his bikes resleaved all the time there) he has several bikes