85 atc 250r problems running

[SteveCZ28]

I recently bought a 85 250r. It starts great and idles fine. But when u get out on it to actually ride it, it likes to bog and not actually hit the powerband. It sounds like its loading up when you try to give it gas and it has a solid smoke trail after the trike. No matter what I do with the air screw on the side it doesn't make it run any better. I really dont know where to start. The carb is clean and dirt free. I checked the jets and their clean also. Im just needing some help as to where to start looking on this beast. It is 100% stock with exception of a open k&n intake and filter.any info or ideas would be greatly appreciated

[stevensj13]

You are running a bit lean. Any modification to the air flow or exhaust flow will require a change in jetting, especially an Open K&N intake and filter. Go the the closest local Honda dealer and buy some new main jets, The size you want depends on the size you have. I would recommend buying a few jets, and only go up one at a time until you find the perfect one.

[KASEY]

if your still running the stock silencer that might be your problem,, after years of use they get all gummed up with oil,,, and a stock pipe has a lining in it that will also get oil soaked,,, how the hell someone can say your running lean from your post is just plain lame,,, sounds like you need to look at the plug,, what oil ratio are you running? the air screw is only for air fuel at idle so it won't make a difference ,,, if your all stock and have oily goo running out of the back of the pipe,,, maybe you could have the pipe and silencer cleaned at a radiator shop, it will make it run like new and get rid of the trail of smoke,,, mix up some gas at 32 to 1 and ride,,,,,,

[SteveCZ28]

Stock jetting as far as I know. I don't know how to check to see what jets I have. I thought it was running rich due ti the thick smoke trail. So im not believing the running lean post at all.I believe I have it mixed at 20:1 as that was what the sticker on the bike says and that's also a recommended mixture for my banshee also. Yes it still has the stock pipe and sole certain. I noticed the baffle is still in the silencer. I might pop that out and look for sludge in there.

[SteveCZ28]

Also for the mixture for actual riding do I adjust the clip on the needle being as the air screw is pretty much for idle? I've never really messed with the jetting of carbs or needle clip settings. I basically know how to tear down a carb to clean it.

[KASEY]

you will NOT have to rejet a stock machine with a stock pipe and sliencer if you put a k&n filter on,,,,,, wheres tha extra air going to go???? there is no reason to run 20 to 1 ,,, either... if your going to keep the stock exhaust i suggest getting it cleaned out ,, at that high of oil ratio you will never get rid of the smoke trail... and the inside of the pipe and silencer will be soaked with oil......

[Vealmonkey]

Kaseys advice is really good and I would highly recommend listening to what he says. But you may also want to check your 2 stroke oil. Some 2 stroke oil makers have a recommended mix ratio that is different than what the honda recommends for their brand of 2 stroke oil. You may want to check what the oil maker may be recommending and make sure it doesn't conflict with what honda recommends. If the maker recommends a certain mix, than I would seriously consider running what they recommend. And jets generally have thier number sizes on them somewhere, so you should be able to rear what your slow speed jet and high speed jet sizes are. If you are sight challenged like some of us older members, remember your magnifying glass! LOL Smoke is caused by oil Too much of an oil mixture will cause excessive smoke even though your jetting for your carb may be right on the money. A dirty air filter can cause rich running condition as it restricts proper airflow. All these things should give you several possible causes or conditions that you will want to check into. And check your sparkplug. That will definitely give you a good insight as to wether or not you trike is running lean or rich. Proper plug color should be a tan or brown. White color would be showing lean and a dark grey to flat black would indicate a rich condition. A shiney black plug would show that you were having other problems, but your plug is burning off your 2 stroke oil, hence the bug screen. LOL I would be way more concerned if my 2 stroke had no cloud behind it at all then I would by a nice thick cloud. LOL No 2 stroke oil is way worse than excessive in my book.

[SteveCZ28]

Lol ok. So how do I get it to run better? And what fuel ratio do u reccomend?

[SteveCZ28]

I want a good ratio that I can use in both my r and my banshee just to keep the mixing of fuel easier to do instead of having different mixtures for different bikes

[SteveCZ28]

ok i got off work, and checked my r out.....checked the silencer. it does not have thick oilly residue, or sludge or anything like that. a very light film of oil tho for obvious reasons. took the baffle/spark arrestor out, and same deal no sludge, not wet. is dry and light oil film...checked the spark plug. it is a flat black color. not wet at all.

[falloutboy]

mix up some gas at 32 to 1 and ride,,,,,,

How does that saying go? "32 is the new 20"

20:1 using most of todays oil is just too thick.

On the side of your main jet (one in the center, hangs down lowest in float bowl) there is a number. If it's the stock 85 carb (round slide) it should be a 142.

For jetting, start here: Carb Jetting 101 Terms Tips and Jetting Theory (http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?55086-Carb-Jetting-101-Terms-Tips-and-Jetting-Theory)

[ceaserthethird]

You don't know the history of the 250r, so I would recommend New -

Air filter / Wash & Clean, Spark plug, transmission flush and fill, radiator flush and fill, check compression must be over 170psi, check your reeds if worn replace them.

Report back.

32.1 mix ratio / 92 octane

Spark plug - NGK BR8ES

[SteveCZ28]

Air filter is new already. Ill grab a plug. How much oil does it take for the tranny as their isn't a dipstick? Ill get hold of a compression tester and check on the reeds ill update when I get this stuff done

[jb2wheels]

OP - your R sounds just like mine. I was hoping you resolved it so I could have a clue. I hope you get it fixed soon...

Mine is stock except for a clean and oiled UNI air filter. Starts great. Idles fine with the idle speed screw turned way in. Bogs and smokes like a freight train right about when the powerband hits. It does this with or without the air filter and with or without the sliencer.

My crank seals are good. Carb cleaned and rebuilt.

I'm moving on to ignition troubleshooting (swaptronics) - stator, CDI box, coil.

Might even be a head gasket but I'm not getting any bubbles in the coolant while running and I don't want to pull the head. That will be last resort.

My info:
Maxima 927 oil, 32:1 - fresh batch with fresh gas.
New plug NGK BR9ES
Clean and oiled Uni filter.
Stock exhaust.
Stock carb with stock size jets - 142 main, needle on 2nd groove from top.
Carb cleaned and then rebuilt with carb kit during troubleshooting with no change.
Stator resistance = 130 ohms, spec is 50-250 but I've been told anything under 150 is suspect.
Coil and pulser ohmed OK.
Crank seals good - LH does not leak when sprayed with carb cleaner while running, I replaced the RH seal but the original was not leaking.
Compression 165 PSI - I'd like to see more but that should not be causing my issues.

[SteveCZ28]

dug into this a little yesterday. checked, flushed coolant...bought a compression tester and checked i have about 167psi for compression. havent checked reeds yet. and didnt change oil as i dont know how much to put in. will tear intot he reeds and find out what my jets are this weekend

[falloutboy]

For the oil, it takes about 3/4 of a quart. To check it you take that 10mm bolt out that just below the oil fill, also it should have a small copper washer on it. If it has enough, it should run out of the hole. If you check it right after putting oil in, though, wait a few minutes as you could get a false reading from the oil running down inside the case.

167 is a bit low but should still run ok.
Don't forget to check what size your main jet is.

When my bike had the stock exhaust on it, it had the stock size jet but was still a little rich. I think over the years the stock pipe gets a layer of build up in it and constricts it.

[SteveCZ28]

ok checked everything over...jets in the carb are: 142 and 52... checked the reeds, they are the factory ones i believe as they are the really thin stainless set...one the the petals is bent just ever so slightly...enough to see a good amount of light thru it. so ill get a set of reeds for it, i already ordered a carb rebuild kit just in case. took the head off just cuz i wanted to and to cure my anxiousness to se if the cylinder was gouged or not...it looks fairly fresh and has a newer wiseco piston bored over .020 it is a 66.5mm piston.

[Dirtcrasher]

Make sure to have a fresh plug, read the plug and a bad stator can also cause these issues.........

[SteveCZ28]

how do i test the stator???

[jb2wheels]

You need a volt/ohm meter and the manual. Pretty straightforward.

Manuals here:

http://72.52.143.80/~trikes/Manuals/ATC%20manuals/

[tlalumiere]

I had issues like this on my bike when it was running, turned out the jet i was running was too rich, changed it out was running fine till i hit another problem. .....an i have heard nothing but bad things with K&N on ATVs, Yes they breath well but thel will also let in dirt and dust too....not good for a 2 stroke.

[SteveCZ28]

how can stock jetting be too rich tho...it just never sounded like it would hit the power band. im gonnna go with maybe the reed being bent was not letting it perform the way it should?

[SteveCZ28]

also i read on the manual, how do i check my timing..it says to check, but doesnt explain how to check it and using a timing light

[Tri-Z Pilot]

As long as the timing key isn't sheered or messed up I don't see how timing could be doing this. Shotty electronics? Sure? Reed prob? Sure? Bad main bearing seals? Sure? Timing? I dont think so, (Unless you have an adjustable timing plate, but I reckon you don't)

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Also as others stated 32to1 and an NGK BR8ES is the way to go.But don forget that when you change your fuel/oil mixture you need to change the jetting to accommodate that. Running lean means less gasoline per air charge, so at 32to1 you will actually be running richer as there is more gasoline present. Gasoline cools down your piston/top end, not the oil. Oil is present to lubricate your crankcase/piston, gasoline is there to cool the top end and provide combustion (with oxygen ofcourse). Thats why 32to1 is a good middle median, good lubrication, and good piston cooling.Just remember oil/fuel and air/fuel are two different things.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Let me simplify this even more. If you have a stock 142 main jet and are running 20to1 you are running 20 parts of gasoline and one part of oil through it. Same 142 main jet, if you are running 32to1, you are running 32 parts gasoline and one part oil through the same size opening in your main jet hence you are running richer due to more gasoline being present in your fuel emulsification, so you may need to reduce jet sizes to get you in a proper jetting range. Lets say one day you are running 20to1, then the next day 32to1 you have actually affected your jetting due to the difference in air/fuel ratio from one oil/fuel ratio to the other. Get it?

[KASEY]

if the difference was oil you would see a difference,,, but you are only talking about 2.4 ounces of gasoline per gallon as the difference and maybe if you were on the saltflats would you see a difference at max throttle for miles!!! your WAY OVERTHINKING THIS,,,,, nobodys jetting is that perfect. and what about atmosphereic pressure and humidity and altitude to many other factors ... besides your theory would only apply to WOT ...

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I wasn't really gettin at anything Kasey, just putting out some useful information That would give some a better understanding of what is exactly going on with our machines when picking a proper mix ratio, and a general understanding of how our engines use the fuel information that we give them. Carbuerators are are the one thing on most of our toys take the most tinkering and experimentation to get somewhat right. There is no such thing as too much information in my eyes.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I myself use Thunder Products Inc. Dial-A-Jet systems on all my carbed machines, you run the carb a little lean, install the DAJ and never have to worry about main jet changes or meltdowns again.
Ofcourse you gotta get your fuel/oil mix where you want it then keep it there. Maybe a dial click on the DAJ here and there for drastic temp/humidity and elevation changes, but other than that maintenance free.
I Swear by these units!

[SteveCZ28]

well thank you for the information guys...i guess ill have to get rid of my 20:1 mixed gas and try out 32:1... im waiting for my new reeds, carb kit, and top end gasket kit now for me to be able to try to run it again lol...i hope its something like the reeds being bent that is casuing these problems

[Tri-Z Pilot]

One way I always checked to see if my reeds were the culprit on non starting machines is to take your airfilter off, make sure ignition is off, fuel is off, hold throttle wide open, and I would hold some streamers (kinda like what you see on the handlebar ends of little girly bikes) inside where the airfilter use to mount to. If they blow backwards out the airbox when you kick the bike over you know your reeds are bad allowing compression back through the carb.

[SteveCZ28]

i checked my stator...it all came back in good range. i need new head gasket and reed cage gaskets to come in the mail to try the tassle trick to see if it was my reeds...well now that i think of it, it has to be reeds, because when i took the filter off their was gas in it, and in the throat of the carb...lol didnt make sense until now, lol

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I don't think having gas in the airbox exactly means your reeds are bad. I don't think there would be enough pressure for the compression to suck fuel out of the jets when blowing back through the carb. I think you need the negative pressure of the crankcase on its intake cycle to raise any fuel from the floatbowl through the jets, in which case it would be going to the cylinder, not the airbox. That prob sounds more like a clogged overflow or a flooding problem.

[SteveCZ28]

i also found out today that the previous owner messed up the carb cap....i took the cap apart to see what groove my needle valve is set on its on the 2nd from the top btw. but they put the retaining clip that holds the plate in first then put the plate on top of the clip, so you can actually move the needle valve up and down atleast a 1/4 inch, being as the throttle spring was the only thing holding the plate in...so i dont know if that would cause my issues of it never hitting power band or making power....but the needle to move that much i would think would do something to it not running 100%

[Tri-Z Pilot]

It's actually called the Jet Needle what you are referring tp. The needle jet à Sorry I jusr fell asleep

[jb2wheels]

FYI - a different stator seems to have fixed mine. I'll know more for sure with a little ride time.

[Fox250R]

mine did same thing for a while..Needle jet fixed it

[SteveCZ28]

yea i have too many little variables to truly figure out what my issue is. i think it might be nipped in the butt tho, just waiting for my correct top end gasket kit to show up....the company sent me a set for a cr 125, then argued with me saying it will fit the 250r. lmao...after a very long conversation with the lady arguing with me they admitted fault and is sending the correct gasket set this time ( i hope lol)

[Vealmonkey]

That was the smartest thing you've said yet, "too many variables". And when you go changing a bunch of things at one time, you never know what fixed the problem of what made the problem worse. You have to fight one fire at a time or you could get all screwed around backwards before you solve anything.

[SteveCZ28]

yea exactly. ill never actually know what fixed the problem or didnt. thats what sucks. for all i know i could still put it back together and still have the problem, although with the bunch of little things i have found wrong, im still guessing, but im guessingg the problem might be cured. i will only know when i have it together and running

[rdlsz24]

Please post up what you find.... I'm having the same issue on my stock 85. It runs fine on the bottom end but if I give it full throttle it just won't take off like it should. I rode it for the first time yesterday, had it since May but the rear end was shot on it so I got that all taken care of. My reeds looks good but the silencer had goo coming out after a ride. It runs like a 4-stroke, linear power from the bottom and no hit at the top. I've only ridden modified R's, do the stock ones still have the hit?

Rob

[SteveCZ28]

ill post up what i find...but like i mentioned earlier i have way too many variables to figure out what the actual culprit is..

[250rRoostmaster]

Stock R's have a decent little powerband hit so something is definatly off...

[rdlsz24]

Can a worn clutch cause issues like this? If I had to guess I would say my clutch is original, since everything else on the trike has been so far!

Rob

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Oh yeah, stock R's will still pull your arms outta socket.
Steve, even though you gotta go through new parts at least uou know they'll be new and good.
I had a prob on my last R i thought was a carb prob. Ran fine on the bottom, but when you nailed it, it fell flat on its face (aftermarket pipe/silencer). I found out my throttle cable wasnt adjusted properly therefore not opening the carb slide the whole way. Got it adjusted properly, then the only problem was I had to make sure I had the front end pointed where I wanted to go when I opened her up, lol.

[Afrothunderkat]

OP - your R sounds just like mine. I was hoping you resolved it so I could have a clue. I hope you get it fixed soon...

Mine is stock except for a clean and oiled UNI air filter. Starts great. Idles fine with the idle speed screw turned way in. Bogs and smokes like a freight train right about when the powerband hits. It does this with or without the air filter and with or without the sliencer.

My crank seals are good. Carb cleaned and rebuilt.

I'm moving on to ignition troubleshooting (swaptronics) - stator, CDI box, coil.

Might even be a head gasket but I'm not getting any bubbles in the coolant while running and I don't want to pull the head. That will be last resort.

My info:
Maxima 927 oil, 32:1 - fresh batch with fresh gas.
New plug NGK BR9ES
Clean and oiled Uni filter.
Stock exhaust.
Stock carb with stock size jets - 142 main, needle on 2nd groove from top.
Carb cleaned and then rebuilt with carb kit during troubleshooting with no change.
Stator resistance = 130 ohms, spec is 50-250 but I've been told anything under 150 is suspect.
Coil and pulser ohmed OK.
Crank seals good - LH does not leak when sprayed with carb cleaner while running, I replaced the RH seal but the original was not leaking.
Compression 165 PSI - I'd like to see more but that should not be causing my issues.



your problem is the castor 927. it has dripped out of every machine ive used it in. it gums up and is for WOT racing only.

[SteveCZ28]

also, what brand oil do you guys reccomend???

[SteveCZ28]

i just won an auction for a almost mint conditioned fmf fatty pipe and fmf silencer...so i can ditch the sponge like stock system. lol....more stuff to put on, lmao

[rdlsz24]

Wow you got that for a good price, wish I woulda seen that!

Rob

[Tri-Z Pilot]

your problem is the castor 927. it has dripped out of every machine ive used it in. it gums up and is for WOT racing only.

Not so, I used that for about a year doing slow woods riding even, and never fouled a plug. I have since moved on to Klotz Benol (about the same stuff). The only thing is you can't run it in cold temps like winter, the vegetable base separates.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

What did you get the Fatty for? You will like it better than stock, but there are way better pipes out there. On my next build I wanna get a Paul Turner High Rev, prob gonna be used. I don't think they make them for ATC's anymore.

[Mosh]

your problem is the castor 927. it has dripped out of every machine ive used it in. it gums up and is for WOT racing only.
I have owned and wrenched on over 20 2 strokes in almost 20 years that all ran, or still run castor 927.
That statement is totally not true.
The only setbacks with 927 is it seperates below 32 degrees and is not good for PV engines.

[SteveCZ28]

Wow you got that for a good price, wish I woulda seen that!

Rob

you found the pipe/silencer i snagged?

[SteveCZ28]

What did you get the Fatty for? You will like it better than stock, but there are way better pipes out there. On my next build I wanna get a Paul Turner High Rev, prob gonna be used. I don't think they make them for ATC's anymore.

i got it for what i think is a decent price. 165 for pipe and silencer. they look brand new! i like fmf as i run a set of fattys on my banshee...nice all around power and sound. yes i know there are better pipes out there, but i think ill be happy with this

[SteveCZ28]

what oil do u guys still reccomend? im thinking bout getting some amsoil...

[Mosh]

whatever you run in the shee should be fine for the R, unless you are running race fuel or some crazy mix ratio.
I run the same oil (927) and ratio and premium pump gas, in 4 different 2 strokes.

[SteveCZ28]

well the banshee is getting a new top end currently...so i could change the oil right now, and start it out fresh on the shee, and the r

[Mosh]

I run Maxima 927 at 40:1 (actually a fuzz richer. 16.oz to 4.7 gallons) In a Banshee, 3 250r's, a Lt80 all on pump gas, and a drag Z with race gas all at the same ratio. I have had no issues. Any quality oil should be fine.
Personally, I do not like amsoil. No reason why, I just have heard way to many top end failures with it. Not blaming it on the oil, just makes me nervous to read a bunch of threads with top end failures and amsoil.
klotz is good too.

[SteveCZ28]

ok ive been browsing the site, and saw another issue i had when i tried to start my bike. when i would kick it, and the bike would pop or was just about to start it would kick me back thru the kick starter really hard...someone said it could be crank seals causing the bike to kick back that hard.......but when i had my top end off the bike inspecting stuff and what not, you could kick it over by hand with the head off and still hear compression or air hissing/sucking when it was at bottom dead center just about to come up on its compression/exhaust cycle

[SteveCZ28]

finally got everything for the bike, and put her together tonite. will see how she acts tomorrow...i changed the oil tonite also, and it reaked of gas. i dont know if the previous owner was having problems with the carb, being as i did get the trike with the carb off the bike. ill run it for a while, and then check the oil again to see if its still wanting to mix oil/gas

[SteveCZ28]

even though this beast was all torn apart, 2nd kick she started right up. it seems to start alot easier now for some reason. i didnt get to ride it due to a tire being flat, and time constraints for when i leave for work. but ill definatly get some riding in this weekend to see how she does

[rdlsz24]

Cool man let us know how it goes. Did you get the FMF exhausts in the mail yet? You will have to let me know what you end up jetting at with your K&N and full FMF system as I'm looking to go to the same in the near future, and I'm sure I'm at the same elevation as you over here in IL

Rob

[SteveCZ28]

Yes I got the fmf and installed it. It sounds wicked with the pipe silencer combo. But yell ill let you know what I do for jetting. It sounds like a completely different animal so im anxious to ride it

[SteveCZ28]

got it out today. started 2nd kick again. but just runs like ass still...when its sitting in the drive way, i crank it to wot, and it just spits and sputters and back fires really bad, and kind of has grayish blue smoke chugging out....so i switched fuel to 40:1 as thats what my neighbor had that i could use. it straightened out a little bit, it has very brief power in first to pull a good wheelie, but then falls on its face and chugs again. pulled plug and its black (was a brand new plug) so i raised the clip on the needle to its highest notch. it helped it a tiny bit. but now it wont idle to save its own life. only way it will idle now is if i hold the throttle open, but it kinda gurgles when i try to get it to idle like that. the air screw doesnt seem to help it at all, i can have it all the way in, or all the way out hanging by a thread and still doesnt make any difference...i dont know if i need to go up in my main jet, or down due to the open k&n and full fmf exhaust....at one point today it wouldnt start when i put a 145 jet in it as thats what a few reccomended that i do after i put the pipe on and open k&n, i kicked sooo many times today that my foot is now bleeding (oh joy) so i had my wife pull me behind my truck, probably went about a mile or so and the turd never fired. came home, dried off the plug and put in the 142 again it fired 1st kick....its just getting frustrating. so do i actually have to go down in jet sizes being as its still running rich with the pipe and open filter? i do something the way its supposed to be done and it gets worse. it makes no sense....any help or info would be once again greatly appreciated at this point. im just about to the point of parking it for 6 months until i have the patience to fix it, or deal with its temper tantrums.

[SteveCZ28]

i ordered some smaller main jets today. so i will see what they do sometime this week....i really tore my foot up good kicking it yesterday. so i spent most of today off my feet. still dont know bout the idling...so i dont know where to start with that

[rdlsz24]

Something you can try while waiting for your jets is to run it with the airbox lid off if you aren't already. This will lean it out just like if you were running a smaller main. It will at least tell you if you are heading in the right direction.

Rob

[Mosh]

It sounds to me like possible ignition problems. If you are using that whole carb you got, It ran fine on another 85 R with a DG pipe and uni filter.
Generally a bad carb will cause a bog or just wont rev out clean, but should not cause backfires unless you are really lean.

You may have a coil breaking down or even a pick-up coil problem or possible CDI. You may want to remove the stator cover and check for heavy rust build-up on the flywheel.
If done carefully, you should be able to save the gasket.
Or find another known good coil and try that also.

You also want to make sure you have no air leaks that would be leaning the engine out.

[ceaserthethird]

finally got everything for the bike, and put her together tonite. will see how she acts tomorrow...i changed the oil tonite also, and it reaked of gas. i dont know if the previous owner was having problems with the carb, being as i did get the trike with the carb off the bike. ill run it for a while, and then check the oil again to see if its still wanting to mix oil/gas

So you mean ~ Changed your Transmission Fluid ? What did it look like ?

You might have a Main Seal leak.

[SteveCZ28]

Something you can try while waiting for your jets is to run it with the airbox lid off if you aren't already. This will lean it out just like if you were running a smaller main. It will at least tell you if you are heading in the right direction.

Rob

im running a open k&n

[SteveCZ28]

So you mean ~ Changed your Transmission Fluid ? What did it look like ?

You might have a Main Seal leak.

it was gray/silverish when i changed it the first time....then changed it after its hissy fit day on saturday, and its still golden like oil is when you pour it in

[SteveCZ28]

It sounds to me like possible ignition problems. If you are using that whole carb you got, It ran fine on another 85 R with a DG pipe and uni filter.
Generally a bad carb will cause a bog or just wont rev out clean, but should not cause backfires unless you are really lean.

You may have a coil breaking down or even a pick-up coil problem or possible CDI. You may want to remove the stator cover and check for heavy rust build-up on the flywheel.
If done carefully, you should be able to save the gasket.
Or find another known good coil and try that also.

You also want to make sure you have no air leaks that would be leaning the engine out.
im running my carb that i had before..
i know its not lean because the plug is sometimes wet when i pull it out, or is a dry but black when i pull it...when i check spark it is a bluish to white color.. flywheel and area in there is clean and dry and free from rust...i did ohm out the stator and it came back in the good range....didnt check the cdi or coil as it does still have spark tho

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Trans oil reaked of gas? You sure the main seal on the kicker side aint bad? A good way to check for intake leaks is to spray either around your intake boot on idle, if she speeds up you got a leak.
Mosh may also be onto something with the electronics, two strokes don't generally backfire.

[SteveCZ28]

i never took kicker side cover off to inspect anything in there...im leaning towards doing this, for as hard as it kicks...i dont know if something is rubbing or scraping the inside of the cover or not, so ill inspect seals too

[SteveCZ28]

took kicker/clutch cover off..it smells like gas pretty bad in there...ill still hav to pull the clutch off and a few gears to see if the seal is toast or not....anyone have any other ideas??

[SteveCZ28]

checked my electrical...coil is acting kind of funny. it ohms a bit higher than the reccomended ratings. when testing the leads together it ohm out at .3 where the high side reccomended is .2. then when i check the lead to the spark plug wire (secondary side) it ohms out in spec, but when i put the spark plug cap back on its all screwy. so im just going to get a new coil for it, and see whats going on there....also, still havent pulled clutch apart to get to the crank gears on the clutch side of the motor to check for the main seal to see if its messed up. i also took the water pump apart, and i can actually wiggle the impeller side a good amount. took the impeller off the shaft and found the seal to be pretty messed up. so ill have to get a new seal for that, but i dont know if its pressed in or not, as it is kind of a weird seal...also the seperator plate has a few rusted pin holes in it where their not supposed to be so im looking at almost replacing the entire water pump...but still the water pump isnt causing my running condions lol. it might be the culprit to the grayish oil that came out the first time

[SteveCZ28]

not that anyone is paying attention any more, and im basically talking to my self on here now. but took clutch off, and took crank gears off to check the seal. seal was still good, but i can wiggle my crank back and forth atleast 1/4 inch....and i found chunks of metal in the crank bearings....so im thinking i need to rebuild the bottom end now, or find a replacment bottom end

[falloutboy]

Man, you're just not having any luck! Crank bearings and seals aren't very expensive, it's just the time to split the case, but it's worth it to have new bearings...

[jb2wheels]

Hey man - you're not talking to yourself here!

Sorry to heat about the carnage. It's amazing these things run at all with damage like that. Good luck!

[SteveCZ28]

yea before i tore it apart and found bearing failure, i was thinking to myself how are the bearings on the crank. maybe one of them is trying to seize and wasnt allowing the motor to spin freely, as i thought it might have been part of why it kicked hard as hell...i dont know if i wanna split the motor and put new bearing on the crank, or just find another used/good bottom end somewhere. because if i were to do the bottom end, id get a new crank for it, as my luck would be id get new shaft bearings then the rod bearing would take a crap

[Mosh]

The stock crank can be rebuilt with a new rod.
IMO, do the job with the parts you have, then you will know for sure what is done, vs buying a used engine and wondering what really has been done to it.
But be prepared, it wont just be crank bearings. Once you get in that deep, there is always other parts you will want to address to do the job right.

[SteveCZ28]

ok...will doo...i guess i have a new winter project now :(....i guess ill focus on my banshee now lol