Tapping question

[Headsup]

Ok so my exhaust bolt broke off and i need to cut it and drill and tap i got the #7 drill bit thats for my tap.

No how do i do it, Never done it before.
Just drill a hole then send the tap on threw?
here is a pic of my exhaust snappage

http://i.imgur.com/SR4iz.jpg

tryign to cut the bolt even with the head there so i can send the bit in it to tap it?

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Ask dirtcrasher this is his specialty, he removes the existing studs and replaces them with stainless steel I believe. If you decide you don't want to mess with it he can do it.

[Headsup]

Link to his profile maybe??
Idk how to begin waiting for some advice first.
Hard to hack off the ed of the bolt on the upper exhaust bolt.. using a haxsaw blade.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

here ya go just PM him and he will get back to youhttp://www.3wheelerworld.com/member.php?406-Dirtcrasher

[tri again]

yeah, take a deep breath and wait for stories with experience
behind them.
No sense in making it worse.

I am NOT recommending this, but to keep you occupied while waiting for
better info,
I usually walk around all my stuff once a month with pb or liq wrench and hit all the hot spots,
exh studs, front axle bolts, swing arm locknuts etc.
I guess people also heat stuff up to boil penetrant down in the threads.
Some use nail polish remover or acetone and atf.
See where I'm heading with this? It really IS rocket science.

Warm head to expand and liq nitrogen to shrink the bolt? or that freeze wart remover stuff.

Sometimes a left handed drill bit is better than an ez out.
It might just bite and spin the sucker out and you're done before you start.
EZ outs are tapered and never made sense to me, in that sense.
If (and when) they do break, remember they are hardened steel and
impossible to drill out.

We had some guy, actually in aerospace, who had some set up to
melt or vaporize, or electrolysis steel out of aluminum .

But he WAS working on priceless parts.

Welp? I guess I'll post this and hope someone has come up with a
perfect answer for you in the time I've been blabbing.

HA! I have one on deck that needs 2 studs too but I'm
also too smart to take my own advice.

Good luck

[Headsup]

Thanks going to coles to see if they have anything that might help, I am going to try and get some liq nit, or wart remover to try and spray on teh Bold end, This sucker is corroded, I will use acetone nail polish remover and soak it and wire brush it and try turnign it again.. I doubt it though,, Not sure what to do if i cannot get it out or re tap it myself..
Maybe look for a top cylander with good exhaust bolts? idk
Thanks for advice though, Keep it rolling. going to soak it now and run to coles, Brb with a reply.,

Was thinkin gi should have never took it off to sand and respray the exhaust, But i think it was leaking anyway, Or it was already snapped just corroded over so it didnt fall off. It didnt take near anything to break it.. Leads me to think it was already snapped.
idk,

[tri again]

Thanks going to coles to see if they have anything that might help, I am going to try and get some liq nit, or wart remover to try and spray on teh Bold end, This sucker is corroded, I will use acetone nail polish remover and soak it and wire brush it and try turnign it again.. I doubt it though,, Not sure what to do if i cannot get it out or re tap it myself..
Maybe look for a top cylander with good exhaust bolts? idk
Thanks for advice though, Keep it rolling. going to soak it now and run to coles, Brb with a reply.,

Was thinkin gi should have never took it off to sand and respray the exhaust, But i think it was leaking anyway, Or it was already snapped just corroded over so it didnt fall off. It didnt take near anything to break it.. Leads me to think it was already snapped.
idk,

see? you missed my 'don't try this at home' disclaimer.
They are just ideas I found when I used the search key for
broken studs.
I mean, some have even suggested ultrasound and
vibration/tapping to force penetrant into the threads.

There is also info about using dc current and acids like lemon juice or vinegar
to dissolve the aluminum oxide that is created around the threads.
If you think of the 'sacrificial anode' used on boats, they dissolve over time
to take the electrolysis away from the boat itself.

I'm not sure which electrode + or - goes to which part but I'm sure someone does.
The periodic table of the elements will tell us the net charge of aluminum
and an oxide is usually a ++ charge so the negative terminal
would want to be the one to drive the ++ away.



I'd really wait to see what DC has to say.
and gives me an excuse to NOT fool with mine either.

[Headsup]

Well i got the bottom one tapped out. Ready for a bolt, Just the top one there is no room to cut it off.. Im taking little bits at around half inch at a time with a haxsaw blade, Just hoping i can get this other one cut off..

[Headsup]

man ol man, Drilling down there a bolt is not the easies thing, When i just bought my drill bit, it slammed there the first side, After that on this 2nd one, It just doesnt seem to want to go anywhere, I can push on the drill as hard as i can, nothing, Just sits there and spins, Freaking just bought that ((censored, lol))!! Brand new. Colses said they have one more.. Figures they would have just 2.. Should i go get the other one? and use that new bit on the top side?

The tapper i got sucks a bit.. But the bolt i bought screws right in there tight. Hoping to drill this other one out pop my old copper gasket out, Get a new one and throw exhaust back on.. Wish me luck!.

You think coles hardware would have the copper washer i need? Or ebay or something? Thanks guys, this is grueling.

[El Camexican]

I love posts like this. Of all the things you don't want to start "learning" on this near the top of the list. It's not hard, but it is tedious and there is no room for error. If you do this yourself, good for you, but if you farm it out there is no shame.

So, if you must be a doityourselfer (as it seems you are) what is with the "special" drill bit/hacksaw stuff? You never start with the pre-tapping sized drill bit and you never want to shorten that stud if you don't have to. If that was my head I'd flatten the stud with a Dremel, center punch it (once you have it centered, beat it hard a few more times to lossen it) Heat it red hot (just the stud, keep the flame away from the head) The idea is to make the stud "swell" in the tight head and then break free when it shrinks back to size (Do NOT put the head in water to enhance this or you could warp it. That should make the stud a little easier to drill as well as maybe free it up. Start with a small bit, like 1/16" and slowly drill taking care to pull the bit out to remove shavings which could break the bit. Then take the smallest easy-out you can find, determine what size hole it will need to go in at least 3 turns easily and re-drill with that size of bit. Use the easy-out try to remove the stud. If it wont go then drill in all the way with a 1/8" bit and again with the "special" bit that is recomended for your tap size. If you don't know how to use a tap be VERY careful, 1/2 turn in, 1/4 turn back, 1/2 turn in, 1/4 turn back or less if too much resistance is felt and lots of cutting fluid or oil. One last thing. After the beating with the punch and heading/cooling is done try turning the stud with a pair of good Visegrips before you start drilling, as you may luck out and be able to spin it out at this point. If you can get a good enough grip on it try tightening it slightly before trying to remove it.

Good luck.

[Thorpe]

I guess I just wouldnt have broken the stud! (jk) I found using a dremel, and cutting one side off the old rusty nuts, makes them come off with out effort... (Too little too late now...) But especially on old exhaust... (idea for future trikes)

[fabiodriven]

On the one hand there is no better way to learn than by just attacking it.

On the other hand, these trikes and parts are getting fewer and fewer and I'm thinking this project may end up botched just judging by what I've seen thus far. Don't get me wrong, I hope you get it right, but hand-drilling a steel stud surrounded by aluminum successfully is a chore to say the least. You are not going about this project the right way, but if it comes out right that's all that matters.

[Dirtcrasher]

Good luck, usually you don't line up 100% and you get half the stud out or 25% remains. That snaps drills and ESPECIALLY taps off very easy. #7 is for 1/4 20 or it may also be for 6mm x 1.0 which is only .014 thousands smaller; So, if there 6MM, your good. The reason I helicoil these things is as follow: I get to use a much larger drill bit than the original "tap" drill bit, so if I am off a few degrees, I'm good, all the stud and aluminum go bye bye. Take the 350X head as an example. If my mill head is trammed in to "0" thousandths, then I have one axis perfect as it bolts the gasket surface to my angle plate. Now the other angle is a crap shoot, unless there is something nearby that you can indicate in and make sure your at the same degree, your right back to possibly being off a few degrees, Eye-ing it is not good enough. So by using a larger bit and helicoiling it, I can get away with being off a hair here or there.........

If your gonna drill that by hand, have a ball. Have a friend tell you "up/down or side/side" to approximate the angle. Dremel it flush, center punch it, center drill it and then use a small drill bit till it gets thru the stud with plenty of oil. Then move up to #7, then snap off your tap :lol:

[Headsup]

Yea I know u guys Are going to be "i told you so"
I trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro it up, Sorta upsetting But.
The hole i drilled, The new stubs i got for it just pop out when i go to tighten the nuts on it.

Just would you think i could Go to my local Machine Shop and have them Weld the studs i got in the holes i drilled? Lol

Thinking about saving for another Jug like that, But i really dont want to have To do that, Any ideas? Or just I told ya so?

[Dirtcrasher]

HELICOIL THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You used the wrong drill bit or tap or ovalled out the hole......

[atc007]

Just saw this post : ( !! You had more than enough meat ,,at the Beginning! To weld a washer on the existing studs. Then weld a nut on that washer and old stud, And turn them right out,,leaving your bare tapped head..,The heat alone damn near lets them come out by hand! But they would have came straight out....Usually you don't have that much to work with ,and off tho DC's to be done right! Sorry,,and good luck!

[Headsup]

Ovalled the hole a smidge...

What do you mean Heli Coil them
??

[Dirtcrasher]

Danielson, do research before pick up drill.

Hoosier Daddy

[Headsup]

Hm, Ok. Going to have it welded fast.. Thanks for letting me know what heli coil it meant..
Also i dont have a torch or a welder, So no way i could have welded anything to anything.... No heat to Heat it up.. Unless u stuck the engine in the oven....

[Dirtcrasher]

Well, welding ALUMINUM may very well ruin the whole thing, depending on the welder.

You can't google "helicoil"? or threaded insert.

It's bad enough to break off a mounting tab for an exhaust or something, but stay the hell away from the engine until you know what your doing; and I mean that respectfully......................

I get it, your just another broke triker who wants to ride but doesn't have the tools or knowledge; We have many here :D

[Headsup]

Hey thanks for the disrespect ^^. Yea u can say i wasnt born with a silver spoon unlike some..
Found what i needed,

[slowman9786]

atc007 is right, you had PLENTY of stud to grab onto with some pliers. Even if you didn't have a heat source you probably have some penetrating oil or something to let it soak, then grab it with some vice grips and yank on it.

I don't think dirtcrasher was being disrespectful, he was just trying to help you before you messed up your engine. I was inexperienced in broken bolt/stud removal and I had to learn the hard way on how to do it by some more experienced guys.

[Jason125m]

I don't mean this with any disrespect. But you should have taken your time and considered all of your options, and done more research rather then jumping into something!
All i would of done.... Put the exhaust back on, bolt it on enough so there is no leaking when the motor is running... Let the motor IDLE for 30 minutes, unbolt, slide the flange back, got some vice grips, turned her, and she would of came out..

I guess you learnt your lesson though.

Now.... send it off to DC so he can do it right.

Jason

[Headsup]

Was thinking of sending it to him, But i am not sure he would want to..

Anyway i tried liek hell with vise to grab teh stub and turn it out, wasnt going good,
Also there wasnt enough to Go past my exhaust plate that bolts on, I couldnt get a nut back on it after they snapped, Snapped to far down.
Only had maybe half an inch to play with. Soaked it with Oil, Wd and nail polish remover for 2 days before tryign anything.. Yea im pretty trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro now. I either need another Cylinder. Or Retap and drill it str8 this time with teh next size up.
Or send it away and have some1 do it.. Or Heli Coil.. Looking into heli coil but im lost as for what kind to get and how to go about using it.. Google helped watched tens of tuts.. Im stumped. Looks ,like i wont be riding this winter...

[Headsup]

lol, I was going to get a self tapping Screw... Now that my Holes are drilled it wont work unless i get one bigger then teh hole drilled.. Witch idk if they make them that big..

[Jason125m]

Send it off to do it right. You do not want a self tapping screw in there. What happens if it comes out while riding? Burnt exhaust valve, and possibly water into the top end..

Taking the easy way out will get you nowhere except out of even more money than it will take to get it fixed properly.

[Headsup]

Where should i send it?? Like Give me the address and There it will go...
Just i called machine shops here, They say they wont do it... No idea who i could send it to..
Dirtcrasher? Not sure he Will Be able to Do it for me? Also a price or something? Not worried about that much i wanna ride...

[Jason125m]

Pm DC, I'm sure he could get it done for you, I know he has been pretty busy these days though.

[Headsup]

Ok thanks i sent him a PM,

Also as for that Tecate i said was free i still didnt get it. He says its in teh back of his packed shed, and he needs a day off to go get it. Told him ill give him 80 bucks he said ok,

Im going to soon Part this 250sx out... Worse comes to worse,...

[Mosh]

Or Heli Coil.. Looking into heli coil but im lost as for what kind to get and how to go about using it.. Google helped watched tens of tuts.. Im stumped. Looks ,like i wont be riding this winter...
I am not sure if my posting will help you or bury you further into an already bad situation. And I have no idea what tens of tuts is..Is that like toys for Ta-ta's? lol

You can't do any real repair work with that engine sitting crooked in the frame.
If you want to attempt what I am about to show you, then have at it and go get some good cobalt drill bits and set that engine on a nice level work area and follow these instructions. I am not saying you will be succesful, as drilling a simple hole in a straight fashion is very hard without a drill press, but it is the best help I can offer you.
Try at your own risk.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?93524-Fix-those-stripped-Threads!!!-A-how-to-on-Heli-Coil-installation..

[Headsup]

lol wtf happen Here..

Anyway, Im going to get a HeliCoil and Try i think. Their pretty cheap and they come with a few extra. Thanks for All who helped me!!
The Helicoil thread Is Great,

The bottom hoel i drilled is straight, Well seems Straight and good to go, But the top one. Was ovaled out and i might have to go a step bigger, Their just wont be any exceptions on that one. i messed up plain and simple. Hole wasnt str8, So Just wish me luck i am sure ill get it..

If not any1 Needs any 85 250sx parts, Let me know. Besides fenders and tank

[just ben]

Ok thanks i sent him a PM,

Also as for that Tecate i said was free i still didnt get it. He says its in teh back of his packed shed, and he needs a day off to go get it. Told him ill give him 80 bucks he said ok,

Im going to soon Part this 250sx out... Worse comes to worse,...hows your situation going? any word on that tecate yet? I'm guessing for the price it will turn out to be a parts machine. I happen to have a good running sx motor and a bunch of other parts for it. Do you see where I'm going here. lol:)

[Mosh]

In an effort to keep this thread clean and informative, the antics have been moved.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?135712-Lag-screws-VS-hackery-VS-thread-clutter.