Oil Problems. Trikes wont stay running.

[Dnali]

So a few months ago i did an oil change on my trikes yamaha 200e's and used a full synthetic 5W40 motor cycle oil. The performance was great and we got a great day out of them but the machines where running very hot. So he next day out of just lack of knowledge we replaced the oil with Quaker state 20w50 car oil. The bikes where very sluggish and one wouldn't stay running. So we called a atv shop and they recommended the proper oil which i believe was a 10w40 full synth atv oil. But now neither of the bikes will stay running. Is it possible that I fried my piston rings the day i put in the thin oil??? Or was it the car oil???? I do not want to take these bikes back into the shop since we only got 3 or 4 days out of them since the last visit. Any help would be apreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Dave

[Dnali]

bump*******

[Chazz of Blades]

10.W.30.

Just drain the old crap out, put 10w30 back in it, pull the rope and see if it feels low on compression, or if you have a gauge check it and get back to us.

[fabiodriven]

I'm guessing it wasn't the oil. Like Chazz says, check the compression and go from there if you think you cooked something.

[El Camexican]

Both at the same time?:wondering Too weird. Besides changing the oil did you do ANYTHING else to both trikes? i.e. top off the fuel tanks in both just before they started running poorly? Wash them, or tip them up on the grab bars? Over filled the oil? (if you did the air filters might be full of water or oil) Were you riding in a particularly dusty conditions that could have plugged up the air filters? You said they had both been in for service. Did you have anything major done? Valves in particular? My 200 always ran very hot. Imagine an inch of wet mud on the entire engine at low speed in mud and the valves ticking like a room full of watches hot and it never failed me. That engine is a rock. If you have compression look at the air filters next. I think that engine has a automatic compression release (the 200K does), so you may want to disconnect them for any tests. (cable on the right side of the engine at the exaust valve cover)

[dougspcs]

I would say more than likely you oil level was to blame..not so much the type. Though that is important, it's unlikely to do damage in just one ride!

Too much oil in the crankcase will cause the engine to run hot, push it up the crank breather where it can force it's was in intake and foul your plug...yes even cause engine damage.

When you say 'they won't run' you don't explain what you mean..have you check the plug for fouling? have you checked compression??? put the same crap gas in the tanks?

Lots to explore here!

[El Camexican]

I would say more tLots to explore here!

Amen to that, it’s like mechanical CSI!

[Dnali]

hey guys thanks alot for the feed back.


last i remembered there was good compression on both of them. they would turn over and fire for a second or two but not enough to stay at idle. i pulled the plugs and cleaned them with a wire brush. they where a bit black but nothing substantial. filters where clean considering the conditions we where in. but i blew them out. also we had the tanks filled to the tits with good premium fuel. other than the exhaust the bikes are stock.

however when we drained the oil, I tipped both the bikes on there sides. and just drained it out of the fill plug. :/

the only reason i think i fried something is because when we got them home after running the super thin oil. i could spit on the and of the exhaust and it would instantly sizzle off with not a drop of wetness. one of them i know burns a bit of oil.


im going up to the farm this weekend im thinking im going to try to clean the carbs and change the oil again and see what happens. seems like every time we get a tune up we only get about 10-12 hours out of them before they start acting up.

could the needle maybe just be plugged or the float stuck. hopefully i didn't cause any permanent damage by tipping them to drain the oil. i couldn't find the bloody drain plug. any suggestions would be great.

thanks again.

Dave

[tri again]

hey guys thanks alot for the feed back.


last i remembered there was good compression on both of them. they would turn over and fire for a second or two but not enough to stay at idle. i pulled the plugs and cleaned them with a wire brush. they where a bit black but nothing substantial. also we had the tanks filled with good premium fuel.

however when we drained the oil, I tipped both the bikes on there sides. and just drained it out of the fill plug. :/

also we did fill both the bikes to the top with gas before we went out.

the only reason i think i fried something is because when we got them home after running the super thin oil. i could spit on the and of the exhaust and it would instantly sizzle off with not a drop of wetness. one of them i know burns a bit of oil.


im going up to the farm this weekend im thinking im going to try to clean the carbs and change the oil again and see what happens. seems like every time we get a tune up we only get about 10-12 hours out of them before they start acting up.

could the needle maybe just be plugged or the float stuck. hopefully i didn't cause any permanent damage by tipping them to drain the oil. i couldn't find the bloody drain plug.

thanks again.

Dave

aaaah! the ol' lawnmower oil change, my Favorite.

I just did that exact thing with a new sx.
Tip it over and dump oil out the fill tube.
Never had a problem before this one but it wouldn't restart.

Turns out the floats stuck closed.
I loosened the carb drain and nothing came out.

Kicked it, tapped the bowl, and eventually just did cpr (blew into the tank)
gas poured out the carb drain and all was good.
Typical 1/2 kick start.

Hope that's it.
I'd also try with the gas cap off, and maybe even pull the fuel line and make sure that ON is actually 'on.

As far as catastrophic failure potential?
Make sure everything else is good...oil correct level, not too high from gas leaking into crankcase.
Oil filter in correctly. and all that scary stuff.

Yeah, just see if gas comes out the floatbowl and maybe see if you can tease
it into running with judicious spritzes of start fluid..
ya know, the usual.

You might get the floats to loosen by rocking the trike (violently) from side to side too.
Pull the fuel line and a few drops of 2 stroke or marvels mystery oil in the fuel line?

[dougspcs]

Take some fresh plugs with when you go..plugs can look fine, even spark ok when out of the cylinder against the head, but under compression break down.

[Dnali]

aaaah! the ol' lawnmower oil change, my Favorite.

I just did that exact thing with a new sx.
Tip it over and dump oil out the fill tube.
Never had a problem before this one but it wouldn't restart.

Turns out the floats stuck closed.
I loosened the carb drain and nothing came out.

Kicked it, tapped the bowl, and eventually just did cpr (blew into the tank)
gas poured out the carb drain and all was good.
Typical 1/2 kick start.

Hope that's it.
I'd also try with the gas cap off, and maybe even pull the fuel line and make sure that ON is actually 'on.

As far as catastrophic failure potential?
Make sure everything else is good...oil correct level, not too high from gas leaking into crankcase.
Oil filter in correctly. and all that scary stuff.

Yeah, just see if gas comes out the floatbowl and maybe see if you can tease
it into running with judicious spritzes of start fluid..
ya know, the usual.

You might get the floats to loosen by rocking the trike (violently) from side to side too.
Pull the fuel line and a few drops of 2 stroke or marvels mystery oil in the fuel line?


I will check all that good stuff tomorrow. hopefully it is just a sticky float. im just hoping it is a big coincidence and not something else that cause them both to crap out.

One question though. Where would i find the oil filter on a 200e. ive never taken it out though im sure it couldn't hurt to check and make sure its clean.

And yes we've had our share of OFF gas lines hahahaha

[Dnali]

Take some fresh plugs with when you go..plugs can look fine, even spark ok when out of the cylinder against the head, but under compression break down.

will do. hoping to get a few more good romps in before the season is over :twisted:

[atc007]

Neither oil hurt your machines. If one was " burning oil" before. It needs rebuilt. Did it smoke? Before,during the rides? I didn't examine every word of advice here admittedly,,but the oil was NOT the culprit. 5w 40,,especially synthetic is plenty of lubrication for a fall ride in Canada.

[El Camexican]

The drain is that large (1.5") cap on the lower left side of the engine that looks more like it has something to due with the tranny. There is a screen in there that you need to blow out as well. Look at the air filters again, as tipping could have drenched then in oil and or fuel. I'm putting all my chips on that bet.

FYI: Your spittle should sizzle on a 4 stroke exaust all the way to the tip, that is normal. " Hot" , or over heated on that engine is when you can feel your sperm count plummeting due to the heat that is coming up through the seat.

[tri again]

I will check all that good stuff tomorrow. hopefully it is just a sticky float. im just hoping it is a big coincidence and not something else that cause them both to crap out.

One question though. Where would i find the oil filter on a 200e. ive never taken it out though im sure it couldn't hurt to check and make sure its clean.

And yes we've had our share of OFF gas lines hahahaha

oops, my bad.
200e has a screen for oil filtration in addition to a centrifugal.
I was thinking more of a 250 with a real paper element filter.
Just part of my paranoia prevention program.

and yes, I can ruin a perfectly good plug within seconds, forgetting both on switches etc so bring a nice new one with you.

[Dnali]

Sweet guys thanks alot. i had no idea there was a oil filter. ill do the plugs, air filter and see if my carbs are plugged or the floats are stuck.

The one that burned the oil did burn a substantial amount when it was under load. when it was idling it was fine. but as soon as you give it gas it was puffin some white clouds. i know its due for some love but hoping to get away with another few weekends.

Still hauled ass like no tomorow.