Carb 200 vs 200x

[Jcode]

I ordered a Carb rebuild for my 200xphone I recently bought and didn't even think about how it has a different motor. Its a 83 200. I got the kit from Dennis Kirk.

Do I dare open it and use what I can or exchange for right one? It looks like most of it is the same except the one I care about, the needle. The 200xa needle looks a touch Skinner than the 200. 200 needle has 1EA, the one in kit is D104. And I have lot of flutter in top end.

I'm thinking the hassle and cost to return this kit is gonna out way using this kit and order a needle separate...

Thoughts?

Oh and is there more than I'm seeing that won't work? Main jet is same, pilot jet is same, etcetc...

[ezmoney1979]

I ordered a Carb rebuild for my 200xphone I recently bought and didn't even think about how it has a different motor. Its a 83 200. I got the kit from Dennis Kirk.

Do I dare open it and use what I can or exchange for right one? It looks like most of it is the same except the one I care about, the needle. The 200xa needle looks a touch Skinner than the 200. 200 Carb has 1EA, the one in kit is D104. And I have lot of flutter in top end.

I'm thinking the hassle and cost to return this kit is gonna out way using this kit and order a needle separate...

Thoughts?

Oh and is there more than I'm seeing that won't work? Main jet is same, pilot jet is same, etcetc...

Whats a 200Xphone? An Iphone made by Honda?

[Dirtcrasher]

No, you probably ordered the wrong kit. It will cost you something to ship it back the way they want and it may cost you money to re-stock it etc etc.

You have to be careful when ordering carb rebuild kits.

As an example, certain kits (moose I believe) come with the wrong thread pitch air screw so it's basically useless. In that case, that is a aftermarket manufacturers issue but your still stuck with paying the return shipping and possible restocking charges.

[Jcode]

I just said hell with it and put everything in. The moose air screw went in perfectly fine..

Rest of it was exact same stuff I was pulling out anyhow, and actually, the carb was in pretty good shape. The pilot jet hole was half blocked was about it. But had a spring fall out of the carb and didn't know where it went till i got home so finish it tomorrow. Just gonna use same needle I pulled out.

[Jcode]

Finally started checking some numbers..

Engine: TB05E - 2224169. A 83 200 (TB05E-2200009~ is for 83 200)
Carb: PD 62B. 84-85 200x. The PD62A is 83 Carb. IIRC, Dennis Kirk showed the 200x carb kit is good for all the years.

So this helps confirm why everything in the kit matched what I pulled out just fine.

But I have KIND of a problem I think I'm rectifying. I got carb on, started first pull but went WOT (good thing it was in neutral).

Which way does the Idle Screw go for respective RPM Change. I thought (w/ according to manual), turning it in dropped the idle. But I read elsewhere turning in increases RPM. I figured turning it closes off the circuit. But I BURIED the idle screw and it still had a way high idle. Well I realized I didn't get the O ring in with the Idle screw. It's sitting in front of me now till I'm done watching our store at noon till I Try it.

What's the main suppose to be on the 83 200? The 200x says 108 for 83 and 110 for 84-85. The 200 I can't find. 200s and 200m I can but both are different from eachother which worries me with mine. Especially because one of them was 85 main. I have a 108 and 110 from kit, and a 108 is what I pulled out.

ALSO what clip should the needle be on?? I pulled it out on 3rd clip and put it back in as such, and it sounded perfect at WOT. 200 specs say 2n

[Jcode]

I forgot too, can the throttle cable be too short? At the carb, the cable has no adjustment. At the throttle, I can bury the adjustment and I still don't feel the carb dropping all the way. I also can't push the throttle all the way in to the stopper. The carb hits the top before that.

As an experiment, I removed the carb cap, and dropped the slide in the carb. Started it, and it idled really good, probably as goo as it can with carb top open.

Is this suggesting the carb slide is NOT bottoming out? The air screw on the side does nothing to the RPM speed, and I don't see the slide moveing up or down with that screw adjustment at all. If this is the case, how was this running in the first place, and for as long as it has?

My reason for the rebuild is I had no top end, lot of sputtering and black puffs of smoke and no idle. As I was pulling out carb, the choke lever got bumped and I swear ,I think, I noticed it was at half choke because I don't think I saw it sweep very far. This would mean last (and first) ride, I was riding it with choke half open. It was my first time taking it out since i bought it a month ago. I didn't even notice it had a choke! I was looking for a plunger somewhere not a lever haha.

[200xman123]

turn the idle screw out (to the left) it will bring the idle down

[Jcode]

Still starting wide open, even with screw nearly out or seated all the way. Dunno what I could be missing.

[MonroeMike]

Make sure you have the slide in correctly. Put the grooved side towards the idle screw.

These may help with your other questions.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/126290-ATC185-200-Service-Data

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/126336-ATC200x-(83-85)-Service-Data

[200xman123]

monroemike is 100percent correct i bet u put the slide in bcakwards

[Jcode]

Great links.

So it shows 83 200 should have a #85 main and pilot jet and #38. It has #108 and #40 in there now. Which is what I took out.

Can this let it crack wide open right off start? I figured it would choke it out with too much gas. This is acting like a lean mixture or air leak (which i checked, didn't find one)

[Jcode]

As you sit on it, the notched line side goes on the left with the little teet poking into the slide chamber, and the ramped side goes on the right for the air screw right?

[Jcode]

Just checked a blow up of the carb in service manual, I got it in right.

[Jcode]

Shouldn't the throttle slide close more than this? Right now the adjustment on the flipper end is bottomed out and there is no adjustment on carb side. Air screw is all the way out. If so, what am I missing? All I did was pull out the main jet, the jet holder, cleaned them out and reinstalled.


http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd390/thejcode2/3%20Wheeler/85c3abfd.jpg

[200xman123]

your slide is in backwards

[Jcode]

It's not :/

I even turned it around and it wouldn't go in.

So basically it's not closing? Like I Said, the throttle cable itself, I don't think, is letting the slide drop all the way. I took the slide off the cable, removed the carb lid and put the cable back on the slide without going through the carb top. I dropped the slide in the carb and it went right to the bottom and the cable end was passed the top of the carb. I kept the cable in the slide so i could pull it back out.

Gonna start a hunt for new throttle cable. But I'm a little surprised it's possible to put a throttle cable on that is an inch to short...

[Jcode]

double post

[MonroeMike]

Glad you got that figured out. Did this work correctly before you took it apart?

[Jcode]

That's the confusing part as it did, kinda.

I started it up once and had a great idle but didn't have time to ride it. Next time I rode it, it didn't want to idle but it was a little couple minute screw around in our storage building. My actual attempt to ride, last weekend on parents 50 acres, it didn't want to start with out hitting the gas, didn't want to idle, and did not want to ride wide open. After awhile i couldn't even get it to start. But i think the choke lever may been half on and the plug I pulled out (aside from being the wrong number Champion), was very black. So every time I had it running, it didn't even WANT to idle. That's why I'm a little baffled it's running wide open now after carb rebuild and new spark plug. Not to mention it sounds like the previous owner drove it a lot and sold, supposdly, only sold it because they were moving. He didn't really want too.

ADD to that, the jetting should technically be way to rich. 200 specs show a 85 main and 38 slow jet. I pulled out a 108 main and 40 slow which is 200x specs.

So I don't know, I guess I'll start with getting a new 200x cable and see if I can some adjustment that lets the throttle flipper move without lifting the slide instantly. This lets me know it's down all the way, with some wiggle room on adjustments. Also will track down proper 200 jetting.

Unless anyone thinks otherwise? Is the 200x carb letting more air into the 200 motor than the 200 carb would? Is it letting more air in so the richer jetting is matched to the air flow the carb is allowing?


Side note: This is so damn hard to track down what to do with motor swap if they don't do it right in the first place. I had a fl350 with 440 arctic cat liquid cooled motor on it. It didn't run right because the air filters with no airbox let way to much dust in and they cut 2" of a the main pipe to fit it, thus killing the low end of the motor and making it difficult to tune the carbs. ALWAYS took 20 minutes to start the thing for some reason. Finally sold it, tired of fighting with it.

[Jcode]

Need some help on choosing cable.

There IS a part number still very visble on my stock one. It's: 965-000. Google does confirm this is for a 83 200x (http://www.google.com/search?q=throttle+cable+965-000&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) (Entire number comes out to 17910 965-000)

Dennis Kirk list lengths. Here's What they have listed

MY cable that I measured comes out to housing 36" (which I Believe is just the sleve housing the cable). Overall 39.5"
83-85 200x Housing: 25.5" Overall: 40.25". +.75" overall
83 200 Housing 35 5/8" Overall: 43.25". +3.75" overall

So how come my housing matches a 200 and only .75" longer cable length as 200x?

Anyhow. I again checked and my slide WILL drop all the way down perfectly with the cable end falling passed the top line of the carb, and going into the tube of the slide area. So there is no question my cable doesn't have enough length overall to be attached on both ends, and allow my slide to fully drop. How this worked for previous owner I have no idea.

So what do I do? Dennis kirk list a housing over 10" shorter for a 200x, Yet my cables part number matches every websites listing for a 200x cable. I see no signs of modification to this cable. If I don't route the cable on the same side of the frame as the throttle, it has a good possibility that it pulls the carb open when I turn, because it WAS doing it when I Was in the woods. The 200 housing matches nearly perfectly, but it's got a 3.75" more of overall length. That seems like it's more than the throttle side adjustment can take up...

[Jcode]

Come to think of it I emailed them. That has to be a typo since 35.5" makes much more sense. Plus that 3/4" must be all I need because that's about how far it sticks up. I'll order that one.

[yamaha driver]

or just go to ebay and get one for your machine for like 12 bucks. i got a clutch cable,and throttle cable for my 250r and they fit like brand new

[Jcode]

Because they are $9.95 on Dennis Kirk

[yamaha driver]

i didnt see the part you posted with the part number for the correct one for your machine from dennis kirk. i thought it was a universal. even though the one from dennis kirk or ebay come out to be same price.

[Jcode]

Nope, don't want to trust going universal. Want to get correct one. I'm also gonna get a 95 and 100 main jet and 38 pilot to get proper jetting in for a 200. The 100 just in case, so I have a jet inbetween 95 and 108/110(i have both). So get all that through them the make the flat rate shipping more worth it. Shipping would be more than just the jet itself is...

I'm thinking in the mean time, I'll test my short cable theory and hack off the end of the housing of my throttle cable (without taking out the cable itself) and see if it works out. If something doesn't work out with cutting it up, I already have replacement coming.

At the very least I have direction now. Frustrating opening that carb half a dozen times trying to find what the heck is wrong. Plus got good info from these links that let me pin point what I have and what the specs are. Thanks a million thus far.

[yamaha driver]

200x jets are different then 200/185 series jets. 200x are longer hex type, 200/185 are flat screw driver type

[Jcode]

I'm getting jets for my 200x carb that match the 200 specs.

"Keihin 13 Series Main Jet
Keihin long hex main jets
For P-series carburetors"

"Keihin 21 Series Pilot Jet
21 Series Pilot Jets fit PJ, PWK, PD and 20-32mm PE carbs"

I have a PD 62B

With that said, the specs sheet (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5019/5467500970_2fbfc676cd_b.jpg) list all 185/200 carbs as a PD series of some sort...

[Jcode]

Here's couple pictures of what I'm talking about with cable.

Here you can see, the cable housing is passed the top line of the carb, going into the tube. Suggesting it's to short. This is with cable attached to the slide and slide bottoming out.
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd390/thejcode2/3%20Wheeler/Carb/0ae5e3d3.jpg

Proof I know how to install the carb slide! Here it is all the way down and also showing cable is inside the tube.
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd390/thejcode2/3%20Wheeler/Carb/6488657d.jpg

Soon as I feed cable back into the top, screw the cap all the way on, still holding the carb open.
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd390/thejcode2/3%20Wheeler/Carb/59d042bd.jpg

Now I do not feel the slide being open by, what looks like a 1/4 throttle, is single handily enough to have the bike starting with what sounds like wide open throttle. But what I am hoping is the 1/4ish throttle opening, a little bit larger pilot jet, and a much larger main jet, all combined, is feeding much more fuel than it would in same circumstance but with proper jetting.

Input is welcomed but I am more so kind of thinking out loud. This way I get my thoughts down plus have them out there for correction if something is amiss.

*Edit* And side note. Looking at the throttle with the cap off the top. The throttle lever that pulls the cable itself, was not even coming close to reaching the throttle stop they have for it inside that housing. It was good 1/2" away from hitting that before the carb slide hit the top of the carb. Another suggestive issue that cable isn't long enough.

[Jcode]

New parts on here. But accidentally ordered a 35 instead of a 38 jet. But no biggy as I more interested in getting the main jet knocked down to size and pilot is so close it should be fine.

But here's the new cable, so at least I got that taken care of.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd390/thejcode2/3%20Wheeler/Carb/649add5e.jpg

In this photo below, the point is you see the slide is bottomed out, while the cable housing is well above the carb top. When the top on, I still have about a 1/4" or better of free play before it pulls on the carb. So this will help adjusting everything a lot.
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd390/thejcode2/3%20Wheeler/Carb/04891ce1.jpg

Won't have anything in for awhile as I'm watching our store again till 5.

[Jcode]

Oh, in case anyone is kind of wondernig yourself how my stock (possibly factory) cable was short..

I notice with the new cable, the housing will actually pull away from the THROTTLE end of the cable. In otherwords, the end with the screw, I can pull the housing away from the screw body and I have exposed cable showing between the screw head and cable housing, while the housing is pinned against the nub on the other end, the carb side. My old cable housing, does NOT do this.

I can not pull the housing away from the throttle adjustment screw housing (for lack of a better term). So MAYBE it just rusted, broke, or got bent in a place where it slightly away from the adjustment screw, thereby loosing exposed cable on the carb slide side. Thus, i get a carb that won't close as there isn't enough exposed cable out of the housing to allow it to fully drop down.

Interesting problem. It's stuff like this I'm glad I work on myself. If/when someone else found this and they ordered a new cable, I'd been wondering if they diagnosed it correctly or just tossing new parts blindly at a problem. I'd never believe the oem cable is too short...

[Jcode]

Got it it all on, crossed fingers, and it started 4th pull. Bit high idle but the air screw smoothly took care of it. Idles perfect now. Air screw actually does something now, and idle screw is in factory position.

Got brand new uni filter in it, new jetting, new spark plug, fixed the rear brakes, fixed a leaky fuel line, tightened up chain, and shortened up spark plug wire. Had bad splits on either end so cut them out and shortened it up so its clean wire right through.

Runs like a champ now. Now to get through our spring weather of 30-45* and rain/snow mix every other day.