250r running rich (video) and a couple stills of all 3 bikes

[threewheelin-feelin]

ok as some of you remember i have been haveing a rich condition on my 250r for some time now...i still have not got to pressure check the crank case to check the seals but many of you were comming up with other ideas...so sa video...i cant for the life of me figure out whats wrong with my camera i hope yall can still make it out...and a still of each...this video is taking with a stock pilot jet, 135 main jet and mixture and 32:1 with bel ray synthetic oil video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tcbv939LAg&list=HL1340333003&feature=mh_lolz

[badass350x]

Seems to run and Idle well, your pre mix is way rich, Air screw, plug gap? Rebuilt the carb?

[threewheelin-feelin]

it runs well with a new plug...but eats plugs some times in a few mins...some times ill get a few hours out of them...i use to be able to ride this bike for months with out changing the plug

[82 250r]

When a bike losses compression it can appear rich.

1st step...compression test to rule it out.

Your bike is having trouble idling down after you rev it up...that is usually a lean condition.

2nd step...leakdown test to rule out a vacuum leak and/or bad seals (also the smoke could be antifreeze or trans oil from a vacuum leak/head gasket)

With automobiles, there is a saying "most carburetor problems are ignition related"
With 2 strokes there should be a saying " Most carburetor problems are compression and vacuum leak related"

Put your carburetor back to the last known good setting, then start with step 1 and 2.

Hope this helps,
Marc

BTW, From what i understand, after you get this problem solved, look for a stock 86 flat slide carb.

[gus]

When you first started it I was like dam that R smokes more then a fog machine lol. Whats your mix ratio?

[gus]

Sorry I just finished ready your thread lol 32:1

[threewheelin-feelin]

they bike makes around 175psi of compression...the carb is set up the way it was the day i bought it 4 years ago...other then i turned to air screw out to try and lean it out...im trying to get a pressure gauge to check the crank case...its the only thing i havent done

[threewheelin-feelin]

When a bike losses compression it can appear rich.

1st step...compression test to rule it out.

Your bike is having trouble idling down after you rev it up...that is usually a lean condition.

2nd step...leakdown test to rule out a vacuum leak and/or bad seals (also the smoke could be antifreeze or trans oil from a vacuum leak/head gasket)

With automobiles, there is a saying "most carburetor problems are ignition related"
With 2 strokes there should be a saying " Most carburetor problems are compression and vacuum leak related"

Put your carburetor back to the last known good setting, then start with step 1 and 2.

Hope this helps,
Marc

BTW, From what i understand, after you get this problem solved, look for a stock 86 flat slide carb.

lean condition? oh man now im really lost

[SteveCZ28]

if your seals and compression check out ok, i would lean hard into getting a 86+ flatside. my r was giving me headaches for the longest time with the stock 85 round slide. it would smoke heavily from the pipe, but then the plug would still show lean. after a year of head aches, i finally tried the flat side and it solved every single problem i was having

also is this a new oil to you? if so read the bottle and see what mixture they reccommend. my bike runs great at 50:1 which is what my oil company reccommends

[badass350x]

So you haven't rebuilt the carb? Put a kit in it and run your mix at 40:1 or 50:1 as stated above!! Oil has came along ways these days and running at 32:1 is rich.. in fact you might be burning all that extra oil in the bottom of the crank case thats excess of your mix!

[threewheelin-feelin]

the carb has has been rebuilt...brand new reeds as well...ive run 32:1 since i got it...this problem just came out of nowhere

[badass350x]

Then I would go with what steveCz28 is referring to on the carb as long as everything else checks out!! Make sure your float is set correctly, I would double check everything again on your rebuilt carb! Other then that I would start leaning towards your electronics as far as spark goes..

[threewheelin-feelin]

Then I would go with what steveCz28 is referring to on the carb as long as everything else checks out!! Make sure your float is set correctly, I would double check everything again on your rebuilt carb! Other then that I would start leaning towards your electronics as far as spark goes..

well i have tryed two different carbs and get 100% identitical results...everything tested within specs accept i couldnt not test the CDI with my tester..it is just frustrating cause i dont have a damn pressure tester for the crank case..im willing to bet money that the seals are leaking

[82 250r]

Your welcome to use my pressure tester if you want to pay shipping. Priority Mail should be about $9 both ways.

It sounds to me like you may have a leak because the bike wont idle down. That might not be your only problem though. Are you losing coolant or gear oil? That may be the cause for the smoke.

BTW...175 compression is on the border for a rebuild.

Marc

[SteveCZ28]

i was in your same situation 'feelin....i had 2 round slides. and couldnt get it figured out for nothing...and couldnt believe that 2 carbs could be junk and cause poor running conditions. so when i got the flat slide and it worked, it just confirmed that both of the round slides were junk....it might be worth a shot....also i would check and make sure the intake boot isnt cracked or torn, and make sure it is bolted good and solid to the cylinder just to make sure it isnt sucking air in there.

[threewheelin-feelin]

the difference in our bikes is mine smokes like its rich and the plug is black when i pull it out...you said yours showed lean

[SteveCZ28]

well then i would look at the float valve. maybe yours is sticking and flooding the bike out

[82 250r]

mine smokes like its rich and the plug is black when i pull it out...you said yours showed lean

In general terms, not referring to your bike,
If a motor is really lean, it can't burn the mixture and causes a miss. The miss will will cause smoke, foul plugs, and your pipes to ooze black goop.
This is what makes jetting so fun. Many of the symptoms are the same so we need to look for other clues.

Now in regards to your bike, it appears rich (smoke, foul plugs) but it won't idle down which is a lean. That may be caused by a leak...maybe not. It may be caused by a plugged pilot jet or any number of things.

I feel you may have multiple issues... none of which have to do with premix ratios, or carburetor (even though a flatslide would perform better).
That is alot of smoke...check for head gasket issues or a vacuum leak. A head gasket is $25...may be worth a look.

Marc

[threewheelin-feelin]

In general terms, not referring to your bike,
If a motor is really lean, it can't burn the mixture and causes a miss. The miss will will cause smoke, foul plugs, and your pipes to ooze black goop.
This is what makes jetting so fun. Many of the symptoms are the same so we need to look for other clues.

Now in regards to your bike, it appears rich (smoke, foul plugs) but it won't idle down which is a lean. That may be caused by a leak...maybe not. It may be caused by a plugged pilot jet or any number of things.



I feel you may have multiple issues... none of which have to do with premix ratios, or carburetor (even though a flatslide would perform better).
That is alot of smoke...check for head gasket issues or a vacuum leak. A head gasket is $15...may be worth a look.

Marc
ok we might be on to something now...i just noticed it is putting out some black ooze..but it doesnt seem to have a miss at all...however i just replaced the head gasket about 4 months ago it was leaking coolant out the side

[threewheelin-feelin]

In general terms, not referring to your bike,
If a motor is really lean, it can't burn the mixture and causes a miss. The miss will will cause smoke, foul plugs, and your pipes to ooze black goop.
This is what makes jetting so fun. Many of the symptoms are the same so we need to look for other clues.

Now in regards to your bike, it appears rich (smoke, foul plugs) but it won't idle down which is a lean. That may be caused by a leak...maybe not. It may be caused by a plugged pilot jet or any number of things.

I feel you may have multiple issues... none of which have to do with premix ratios, or carburetor (even though a flatslide would perform better).
That is alot of smoke...check for head gasket issues or a vacuum leak. A head gasket is $15...may be worth a look.

Marc

what is your jetting recommendation...the bike is (from what i was told by previous owner) bored 40 over...fmf fatty with the turbine core silencer..and im at sea level

[rjs89ia]

i didnt read everything here but i noticed you said you backed the mixture screw out to lean it out. thats wrong you need to turn it in to lean it out. also whats it do at 1/4 to full throttle does it run clean or like a p.o.s. wheres the clip on your needle 2nd notch from the top is normal anything lower and you'll be runnin rich. if your needles there id say you might have to come down a size on the pilot to lean out your idle circuit so it doesnt load up when your barely on the throttle

[rjs89ia]

forgot to add if it went from running great to turning in to a tuning nightmare then id say you should redo the topend after 4 years its probably gettin a little wore out depending on how much you ride. they always run like crap till the last second when its finely doing better then pop!

[threewheelin-feelin]

it runs fine at quarter to full throttle with a new plug..its just a complete nightmare

[82 250r]

what is your jetting recommendation...the bike is (from what i was told by previous owner) bored 40 over...fmf fatty with the turbine core silencer..and im at sea level

fmf claims that no change in jetting is required for your bike...if it ran good before, don't change the carb settings until you find the problem. FYI Stock settings are below.

The air screw should be 2 turns out on a PE 34. (On any carb if the air screw is on the airbox side of the carb, it it always out for lean, in for rich)
Float = 16mm
Needle = 2nd groove (from the top)
Main = 142
Slow = 52

Marc

[82 250r]

it runs fine at quarter to full throttle with a new plug..its just a complete nightmare

An air leak will be most noticeable at slow speeds and idle.

[82 250r]

Did you check the head gasket? A new head gasket needs a retorque after one heat/cool cycle.

Are you losing coolant or trans fluid?

[threewheelin-feelin]

im not loosing coolant however, i did forget to retorqe the damn head gasket. probly ruined it. im loosing trans fluid because of the crack around my shifter. the jb weld wont hold it all in and i cant find a affordable left case right now. the carb as of right now is settings are pilot=52 main=135 clip=2nd groove air screw=2 and a quarter turns out the float im not sure about. also i did a little leak detection today. i started the bike and started spraying the carb with starting fluid. i sprayed around the base gasket, head gasket, carb, intake boot, air boot and i even sprayed the lower end cases and it never tryed to idle up

[threewheelin-feelin]

also i for got to mention i tried a 142 and 145 main jet and no difference other then it seemed like it fouled the plug quicker

[SteveCZ28]

ok spraying around gaskets like you did still wont determine if a seal is blown or leaking in the bottom end. its mainly the seals behind the flywheel/stator area. and behind the clutch and counter balancer areas

[threewheelin-feelin]

yeah i was just checking for any external air leaks to be causeing the lean condition 82 250r thinks it is. ugh all the 2 stroke nightmares i thought of when i purchased this bike 4 years ago are finally comeing true :mad:

[SteveCZ28]

have you been able to do a plug chop on it at all? then check the plug to see what it looks like???

[threewheelin-feelin]

i hate to sound like a real loser but i dont know what a plug chop is lol

[SteveCZ28]

plug chop is a way to check your tune on a 2 stroke. you want to warm the bike up then get it going, i like to do my chops in 3rd gear. you have to get the bike going and peg it to wide open throttle for between 3-5 seconds. pull in clutch and kill motor at the same time. coast to stop. then check the spark plug. remove it and check what it looks like. if its dry it will tell you youre lean. if its wet or greasy looking youre rich. it will tell you if something went screwy in your carb. its atleast a start.

[threewheelin-feelin]

my kill switch dont work lol

[SteveCZ28]

well then itll be extremely hard for you to do a chop then haha

[rjs89ia]

lol gets the best of us, drop a new plug in and go top it out in 3rd or 4th gear clutch it and hit your kill switch shift to neutral or keep holding the clutch and coast to a stop preferably into the garage if your good. then pull the plug and check the color to see if its lean or rich. thats a plug chop. i still think it needs to go down a size on the pilot, its just for idle to 1/4 so its not going to effect anything more than that it'll just lean up the bottom throttle response and it should help keep your plugs from foulin out when your just putt'n around

[rjs89ia]

a little late i was, i got a phone call in the middle of typing

[threewheelin-feelin]

ok little update. i put a 148 main jet in it today. it seemed like no difference still puffing smoke and doesnt want to go back down to idal quick. i then pulled the stator cover off as some told me it may smell like raw gas or maybe even have some in there. it looked and smelled clean to me. i hope i wasnt stupid for doing this but i then started it with the cover off and sprayed some starter fluid at the seal(i was hoping it would idle up like checking for and external leak) but it didnt. and it didnt seam to idle and different with the cover off. im pretty much ready to pay someone to fix it.

[threewheelin-feelin]

anyone close by that would like to fix this bike for a fair price? or maybe just diagnosis it for a fair price. i am really out or patience

[82 250r]

Did you take the head off and check the head gasket?

Drain your coolant from the cylinder...
Take the head off...
Clean head and cylinder surface...
Go to the local Honda dealer and buy a head gasket...$25.00
Install and torque to 17-21ft-lb...
Refill coolant...
Take for a ride after proper warmup...
Allow cooldown and re-torque head...
Report results...

This step will cost you $25 and some quality time with your bike...better than paying someone at this point.
I know it's frustrating, but check the cheap and obvious things first.

Marc

[bkm]

I bet its sucking in trans fluid and since you have a leak there is no way to verify that you are loosing fluid into the crank case because you think its coming out of the shift shaft.

[threewheelin-feelin]

I bet its sucking in trans fluid and since you have a leak there is no way to verify that you are loosing fluid into the crank case because you think its coming out of the shift shaft.

that was my first thought...but someone said it isnt returning to idle like it should and that would indicate a lean condition causeing a miss fire...makeing it apear to run rich..also i dont run auto trans fluid i run 10w40 oil with the wet clutch protection

[bkm]

The idle thing could be from messing with the carb trying to fiqure out whats going on. Have you checked all the electrical to make sure its no a spark issue? I'm still leaning towards the crank seal though.

[threewheelin-feelin]

The idle thing could be from messing with the carb trying to fiqure out whats going on. Have you checked all the electrical to make sure its no a spark issue? I'm still leaning towards the crank seal though.

to be honest i think both seals maybe leaking...i tested everything but my cdi(my tester wont test it) all tested with in specs..the stator tested and 150 i believe and the book says 50 to 250 if i remember correctly...a couple people said its best if they test at 200 or more..so i im just i really dont know...i just got to get ahold of a pressure tester