'84 Honda Big Red 200ES

[RRaider95]

Hey everyone. I'm new to this, so bear with me.

I have my grandfather's '84 Honda Big Red 200ES. We used to use this rig for hours on end in the cotton fields. He passed away in '89, but my grandmother told me last year that the Big Red was still around, and was at my aunt's house. To my surprise, it was in great condition!

This three wheeler means a lot to me.

I put a new battery on it, and it ran great. I keep the oil changed and perform maintenance regularly. My kids think it's the coolest thing around.

Earlier this week, my daughter reported that it stopped running, and was leaking gas everywhere. I had her shut off the fuel valve until I could get there. Fuel was leaking out of the carb into the air filter compartment. I spent the weekend working on it, and thanks to the posts on this forum, was able to determine that it was a gummed up carb. I removed the carburetor, took it apart, cleaned it thoroughly with some carb cleaner I got at the store, and blew it out with my compressor. I put everything back together, and (after remembering to put the needle clip back in) fired her up.

The leak is gone, but now she runs only with the choke on. She kind of chokes and sputters, and backfires a LOT--scares the heck out of the dogs. If I try to undo the choke, it immediately dies.

Any ideas as to what's going on? Is there anything I need to tweak after taking the carb apart?

Like I said, this trike has a lot of sentimental value to me, so any help would be *greatly* appreciated.

Thanks!

[tripowersport]

Try to re clean the carb They cant be REALLY tricky, go throw the jets with a little wire make sure its good and in the float bowl on the outer ring there MAYBE a jet in it clean that out also.You didn't bend the tab on the float did you the adjustment is 14mm from the bottom of the float to the flat side outer ring where the float bowl bolts on and make sure there isn't any thing in the float but i don't think there is. Make sure the needle clip In the slide is 3rd down from the top, The air screw is 1-7/8 turns out. Here is the manual http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/ Do you have any pic's? Good luck and nice find.

[sp8twn]

if that dont work a brand new carb for the 1984 200 big red is only 29$ on ebay,,just got one for mine and works great,,,just plug and play already all adjusted http://www.ebay.ca/itm/270920908058?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 ....good luck!!!

[atc 250sx]

I agree with tripowersport, I understand the sentimental thing for these ATCs, especially with the fond family memories that come along with them. Get her sorted out and keep her forever with lots of maintanance, washings, and lemon pledge!!

[PDADDY]

lemon pledge can't fix my machine. my 200es was flipped down a hill and we had to torch the bars and rear axle back into place. im having problems with her wiring

[kb0nly]

If its only running with the choke on you still have a blockage somewhere. Pull the jets and the mixture screw, run through everything again. Make sure the mixture screw is set right, lightly seated then backed out about 2 turns is a good starting point, you will have to do final adjustment after warming it up and getting it to idle, the you turn it out a little at a time till engine stalls, make a note of that point, turn it back in a turn or two so it will run again then get it idling and turn it in until it stalls, note that point and set it between the two points it stalled and that will take care of it.

If all else fails get a new carb. For the cost of a rebuild kit you can buy a brand new one off ebay, about $30 shipped. I have one of those new carbs on my 84 200ES, the original carb is in pieces in a bucket for now. When i bought it the previous owner replaced the carb, i tried rebuilding the stock carb to put back on if needed cause it was running badly, after putting it back on it ran worse, turned out to be something else and i never put the stock carb back on because the new one runs better.

[RRaider95]

Thanks for all the quick responses.

I took the carb back off, opened it up, and went after every opening with a piece of wire. Then I got some carb cleaner and with the straw, sprayed it into every opening and watched the cleaner come out the other side. I really don't think there's any way any of the holes could be clogged, but then again, I'm very new to this. I put it back on, and it ran exactly the same way: only with the choke on. When I would turn the choke off, it'd die immediately.

Why would the mixture screw need adjusting when I never messed with it?

Also, there is a piece in front of the carb that connects it to the motor. Part of it is a plastic-like tube that appears to have some cracks in it. Could that be part of the problem?

Thanks again everyone for the help. Part of me wants to give up and take it to the junkyard, but I know I really should try to get it running again.

[tripowersport]

WHY!! would you junk it? It was your grandfather's means a lot to you, Get a new carb and maybe the tube or let it sit in side for a little then fix it. The carbs can be REALLY tricky! PLEASE don't junk it, If I lived close to you I would Help you fix it or buy it before you junk it, any one on here I'm sure would love to have it. Here is a new carb http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Honda-ATC200ES-Carburetor-Trike-ATC-200ES-Big-Red-Carb-Cable-Style-/200766668124?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ebea03d5c&vxp=mtr , Just take your time with it and Good Luck!

[sp8twn]

If the intake boot is craked that could be your simple problem
It's sucking air!! Would inspect it a bit closer!!! Good luck!!!PLEASE DON'T JUNK IT

[tri again]

Thanks for all the quick responses.

I took the carb back off, opened it up, and went after every opening with a piece of wire. Then I got some carb cleaner and with the straw, sprayed it into every opening and watched the cleaner come out the other side. I really don't think there's any way any of the holes could be clogged, but then again, I'm very new to this. I put it back on, and it ran exactly the same way: only with the choke on. When I would turn the choke off, it'd die immediately.

Why would the mixture screw need adjusting when I never messed with it?

Also, there is a piece in front of the carb that connects it to the motor. Part of it is a plastic-like tube that appears to have some cracks in it. Could that be part of the problem?

Thanks again everyone for the help. Part of me wants to give up and take it to the junkyard, but I know I really should try to get it running again.
x2 on the vacuum leak,
try spraying carb cleaner around the outside of the carb as it runs and see if it speeds up or dies,
of which, neither should happen.

The slow jets in those puppies is soo tiny, like .008 to .010"
or like the smallest electric guitar string. and they'll refuse to idle and foul plugs.

but to review, it ran great for a long time and then decided to leak out the overflow.
so you'd think a fix on the carb float would fix it.

but going backwards one step at a time, some crud from the tank probably
got in the float valve. ok that's fixed.
More crud got into the other jets but you say it looks great x2.
Internal passages clear?

ad yes, I understand the frustration.
I had 2 carbs boiling away in the kitchen with water and vinegar over christmas and almost got divorced
because of it.
No matter how bad things get, trike rides make Everyone smile.

[kb0nly]

You said you didn't mess with the mixture screw, does that mean you never removed it? There is a very small passage to and from the mixture screw, the smallest of crud can get in there and mess it up and cause it to run lean, which would cause it to run with the choke on but not otherwise.

The intake/carb mount can crack and leak which will also cause it to run lean. If you want to know if that is leaking you can test it, or just pull it off and replace it. They can be had fairly cheap online also. You can get a new carb off eBay for the cost of a rebuild kit these days, and its just quicker and easier to swap the carb and be done with it. You will just end up pulling your hair out over the original.

Don't junk it! If you really decide to give up on it, list it for sale and give it another chance at a second life.

[RRaider95]

Thanks for the positive words, everyone. I just ordered a new carb off of eBay, so we'll see if that helps.

As for the area that's cracked, it's not the intake boot that goes to the air filter box. It's the other direction--going toward the front of the bike. There's a black brittle section of pipe that connects to the motor. Any idea what it's called so I can try to find it online?

Thanks again for the help. I'm definitely keeping this sucker until I get it running!

And I understand about the boiling of the carb--I thought about it, but didn't wan't to ruin my marriage!

[RRaider95]

This is what it looks like: http://www.ebay.com/itm/82-83-84-85-HONDA-ATC185S-185-200-AIR-INTAKE-CARB-BOOT-TUBE-RUBBER-MANIFOLD-/360469419660?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53eda6d68c&vxp=mtr#ht_893wt_949. Mine has no black coating around the base, so is in two parts: a black tube that slides around a metal nozzle that attaches to the manifold.

Think this one would work?

[RRaider95]

OK, so after further research, it appears the part I'm talking about IS the intake manifold. Sorry--I'm new to so much of this.

[kb0nly]

Yes, thats the intake manifold, some also list it as carb mount on ebay, but its one of the same. The rubber that is around the outside of the flange peels off all the time with age, doesn't necessarily mean its a leak. If its cracked between the two flanges then you have a problem and likely a leak.

Want to test it? There is a couple ways. One you can spray carb cleaner around the flanges and on the rubber inbetween, if engine speed changes then its likely it sucked it in and the speed changed. Another way to test is with propane, but you have to be careful. Since you have to pull the carb to replace it anyway, pull the intake off and wash it with soap and water and inspect it, if you find deep cracks in it chances are its leaking, but i haven't replaced one of these yet for leaks, usually its the o-ring between the intake and the carb, or the o-ring between the intake and the engine. Make sure you replace those when you replace the carb, the new carb should come with an o-ring, for the other one between the intake and the engine just take the old one to a local auto parts store so they can match it from their big assortment boxes. Just make sure its a high-temp silicone rubber o-ring so it can take the engine heat.

Mine still has an occasional hickup at idle, speeding up or slowing down more then the set adjustment, i think i need to pull it back off and replace the o-ring on the engine side of the intake as i replaced the one with the new carb.

[RRaider95]

Well, I got the new carb and intake manifold in the mail today, and got them put on this evening. After a little bit of tinkering, I got the thing to start. It sounded much better than it did before, but once again would only run with the choke. I only got it to start a couple of times before it refused to start anymore. I finally gave up for the night. The fuel tank is pretty low, so I'm going to put more gas in it tomorrow and try again.

I did notice that the throttle needle assembly is slightly different on the new carb, and I now have to push the throttle in further to get the same effect.

Wish me luck tomorrow!

[RRaider95]

It's running! I found it it wouldn't start because the fuel line from the tank to the carb was blocked. I blew my air compressor up there and dislodged whatever was blocking it, and fuel started flowing. The three-wheeler started up, and after about 60 seconds, it would run without the choke on.

Only problem now is that it won't idle--it dies if I let off the throttle. I suspect I just need to adjust the idle screw. Any tips on that, or any other things I should do on a newly-installed carb?

Thanks for everyone's help and support - I look forward to working with you guys more on here!

[RRaider95]

Update: I tinkered with the idle screw, and got her to idle just fine. Next step: it's "popping" from time to time. I found out it's a leak between the intake manifold and the engine--when I spray carb cleaner in the area, it dies. I went to Autozone and put a new o-ring on there, but it wasn't quite as thick as the old one. Think I might go by O'Reilly's this afternoon and see what kind of O-ring/gaskets they have. Can't seem to find any online.

Getting there!

[tripowersport]

GOOD your getting there, keep it up let us know how it goes and send pic's if you can. Good job and Good luck.

[tripowersport]

Here is the manual if you need it. http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

[maxdallasfan]

Lemon pledge?

[tripowersport]

What Do you mean?

[RRaider95]

Running beautifully. My daughter drove it down to the barn tonight.

Here are some pics.
150366
Ain't she beautiful? The yellow is an attempt at patching the seat that my grandfather did with a bit of carpet. Still holding tight.

150367
Here you can see the foot pedal that my grandfather rigged up so he could drive with no hands! Still works after almost 30 years.

150368
Here's the new carb and intake manifold I put on.

[kb0nly]

Awesome! I knew you would get it. Fuel/Carb problems are a pain but they can be fixed with time and little money. Did you find a better o-ring then i take it? I just got done tearing mine apart and replacing that o-ring between the intake and engine as well, no more roaming idle depending on temp outside. Finally! She will sit and idle smooth indefinitely now without any change in engine speed.

Nice looking 84! The racks and plastics look pretty good on the old girl. You can get a new seat cover for about $25 off ebay and they aren't that hard to do, or if you have a local upholstery shop they could do it pretty easy to. The nice thing about the 84 seat is the contours of the seat pretty much let you stretch a piece over it and done. Mine is still on its stock cover believe it or not. When that goes i plan on having a local shop redo it in real leather, why? Cause the guy is an artist with cowhide and it would sure look nice.

[sp8twn]

awesome!!!! looks like its ready for another 30years of fun!!!!!!!!:Bounce

[tripowersport]

Nice and Good Job! Now just when the time is rite pass it down to you kids.