It's going to be a bumpy ride America

[redsox]

What's a dictionary?


Exactly my point,

[El Camexican]

El Cam, I took a few minutes just now to try and look at the nose cone stuff, as it had never occurred to me to look before. What i found is that there is an entire camp of people that think there was nothing that impacted the buildings at all. That it was all an illusion. Man, I can't keep the theories straight. I'll look a little more at the nose cone stuff. Give me a little time.

Oh yeah, there are hundereds of theories out there clouding the truth. The only way to separate the fly sh*t from the pepper is one piece at a time. Unfortunately some people who've made up their minds refuse to accept the possibility that they might be wrong. If people could just agree to disagree on certain points for a moment it would be a lot easier to put the puzzle together, but that doesn't seem to be happening here. Sad, as I'd like to fully understand what really happend.

[fabiodriven]

El Cam, I took a few minutes just now to try and look at the nose cone stuff, as it had never occurred to me to look before. What i found is that there is an entire camp of people that think there was nothing that impacted the buildings at all. That it was all an illusion. Man, I can't keep the theories straight. I'll look a little more at the nose cone stuff. Give me a little time.

Dan, there multiple theories, yes. The reason for this is that science has already proven the "official" cause to be wrong and against the laws of physics. We already know it didn't happen the way we've been told. At this point now apparently it's up to the rest of the planet to figure out what happened because the United States government is lying to us and refused to do a true investigation from the beginning. Are you familiar with how investigations work Dan?

There wouldn't be multiple theories if we were only told the truth. It is not the fault of those who work diligently and exhaust every single avenue looking for the truth that you are confused. If your brain is hurting from too many possibilities then leave it to the professionals. Meanwhile you can continue to be a disservice to the American people.

[bkm]

The one thing that bothers me is, as far as I know, these were the first planes to ever strike the buildings in this manner, so we have no other instances to go off of on how they would react to the planes hitting them. How do we know beyond a shadow of a doubt this couldn't happen as described? It has never happened before, yet we have lots of people who are dealing in absolutes. Just because something is supposed to be xyz "proof" doesn't mean it's going to be unless it's tested against xyz in the exact same conditions. John, I admit I haven't watched the video yet, so please bear with me here, I'm truly trying to look at this from all angles. What I'm getting at is we can theorize all day long about what should have happened, but unless these two buildings are built again the exact same way and two fully fueled passenger planes are flown into them in the exact same manner, you can't say beyond a shadow of a doubt, this is what will or should happen. The science has to be questioned just like authority should be.

Remember, the guys who built the Titanic said it couldn't sink, yet didn't make it across the ocean.

We've all seen an f5 tornado rip through a town and level every structure a mile wide, but there's that one concrete slab where a house used to be and something crazy like the dining room table is sitting there with the table cloth and candles untouched. Physics will say that is impossible, but reality says otherwise.

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[fabiodriven]

Bryan I appreciate your attention and objectives. The simple answer is, science and physics. There is no arguing that, and the science is questioned.

I'm going by memory here, I'm in the garage right now. The official scientific theory about what has happened here was posed in the wherever scientists do their most important stuff place, where they all congregate, theorize, experiment, challenge, and sometimes come to conclusions. In the video you will see that the best theory on this very subject has been has been posed for years and never challenged, not once. If there is a better scientific theory on the truth about what has happened, it has yet to have been heard in the scientific community.

The most accepted theory is quite damning to the "official" story and the NIST report both. It clearly states what we have been told is an impossibility.

The Empire State building was struck by a plane once. When you watch the video you will see other skyscrapers that have burned much hotter for much longer yet remained structurally sound.

[atc007]

The one thing that bothers me is, as far as I know, these were the first planes to ever strike the buildings in this manner, so we have no other instances to go off of on how they would react to the planes hitting them. How do we know beyond a shadow of a doubt this couldn't happen as described? It has never happened before, yet we have lots of people who are dealing in absolutes. Just because something is supposed to be xyz "proof" doesn't mean it's going to be unless it's tested against xyz in the exact same conditions. John, I admit I haven't watched the video yet, so please bear with me here, I'm truly trying to look at this from all angles. What I'm getting at is we can theorize all day long about what should have happened, but unless these two buildings are built again the exact same way and two fully fueled passenger planes are flown into them in the exact same manner, you can't say beyond a shadow of a doubt, this is what will or should happen. The science has to be questioned just like authority should be.

Remember, the guys who built the Titanic said it couldn't sink, yet didn't make it across the ocean.

We've all seen an f5 tornado rip through a town and level every structure a mile wide, but there's that one concrete slab where a house used to be and something crazy like the dining room table is sitting there with the table cloth and candles untouched. Physics will say that is impossible, but reality says otherwise.

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For whatever reason ,, Fab and I have watched,,,A LOT. Myself,,for both sides. You clearly have not,or......At this point ,it is mute around here for me. I simply care. I care that the people here are awake,open,and questioning stupid,ridiculous stories told to them. Like Vegas sunday night 2 weeks ago. I thought you had posted a couple times that you have watched all of the 911 videos showing what went on and how. It is a lot...and that there were videos refuting each one of them. It seems to me you have not ;)

The buildings were pulled. Those that don't know what that means, would have to learn that,and the magnitude of work that entails. The evidence is 100% there in front of anyones eyes that wishes to learn. If you are into motorsports,welding or anything else mechanical,,it is blinding. My fear is,, good people,really good people, simply showing up for their shift,can be thrown straight into a situation that MANY many LVPD officers were 2 weeks ago... 1 story, 1 narrative. What you saw and dealt with,,, DID NOT HAPPEN. There was ONE shooter on the 32nd floor of MB. That's it, that is the story,and you will never tell it any other way. That just happened. And it will keep happening. I simply hope for people from 3ww to be a little more awake. Ask Thorpe how wrong I am.

[Red Rider]

Know the truth and spread the word. Realize the lie that is supposedly our freedom. Stand up for what is right.I don't like the way our government is run anymore than you do, but some people just can't be reached, which is the way they wants it. Well, they gets it...

[bkm]

John, I'm being lazy here. I tried going back through the thread and finding the scientific video, but don't know which one it is. Help a brother out and repost that for me please. I have some down time at work to watch it tonight.

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[redsox]

John, I'm being lazy here. I tried going back through the thread and finding the scientific video, but don't know which one it is. Help a brother out and repost that for me please. I have some down time at work to watch it tonight.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddz2mw2vaEg&t=1100s

[bkm]

Here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddz2mw2vaEg&t=1100sThanks Dan!

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[atc007]

You also do not learn about that days unfoldings in one night. Just saying. There is probably 200 hours of evidence to watch.Some downright quacky,,most jawdropping if you're not in a coma.

For short attention spans lol,,,Youtube will auto shuffle them for ya. All you have to do is watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHHghW4Pg5k

Never saw this one before,,detonations going off on every other floor.. Virtually every survivor of that day was injured by the explosions in the lobby,and outside the ground floors. 50 seconds in.. There is SO MUCH new evidence on there since I have looked .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yli-if4F0DY

[fabiodriven]

I wanted to look into what Nico was talking about before commenting on it to brush up. It had been a while since I'd seen these videos but I remembered seeing them once I watched them. This phenomenon certainly is worth consideration as well. It certainly seems very fishy to me at the very least, and I do tend to sway more towards agreeing with what these videos are presenting, however I would naturally sway that way so that must be taken into account.

By comparison, Bryan's Pentagon video is similar. Evaluation of fairly grainy footage, which does leave a lot to the imagination as well as perception. Certainly worth looking at and as I said, seems very fishy to me.

I have been concentrating a lot on what I find to be irrefutable, and I try to stay focused. One subject at a time. This is a very interesting point Nico! One of a whole slew!

EDIT- This is making a lot more sense as I watch.

The first video is short. The second one almost an hour.

https://youtu.be/uUxpCt8emFg

https://youtu.be/2c5_g7UTuGM

[86T3]

I was going to stay out of this one, i had two novels typed out and deleted them both. Why would I enter an argument where a friend is personally attacking and insulting another friend, and where the "open minded" ones won't even accept truth or logic. Well, here I am.

Here's what im not going to do. I watched the video John posted. My first two novels that I deleted pointed out all the inaccuracies and contradictions in it. I'm not going to address them. Why? Because you theorists don't want to hear it and you'll just deny them. More likely you'll just ignore them, like you did to Redsox.

What I am going to do is talk about the hypocracy shown in this thread. I used to think 9/11 was staged. I also used to be very liberal. Those 2 are unrelated but it shows how I've changed as I've grown older. The biggest thing that drives me nuts about liberals is their snobby attitude. It's been spreading to all sides lately, and it's prevalent here. Conspiracy theorists think they are smarter than everyone and it's on full display in this thread. Has it ever once occurred to you guys that you're wrong? Have you actually looked objectively at the evidence you post as "fact"? Have you ever looked at why evidence supports the official explanation of what happened? Have you thought that maybe some of us have looked at this evidence for both sides, and decided that we believe that what was said happened actually happened? I know this country is responsible for some terrible things, some much worse than the terrorist attacks on 9/11 but I believe, and the facts support that this wasn't one of them.

So go ahead John, call me a sheep. Call me stupid or a liar. I guess you can say anything you want, save for calling me a fvcking idiot because that's somehow different. But I want you and Bill to know that I do respect yours, and you are free to have and express them, a little reciprocity would be nice.246985246986

[atc007]

I know I come off as an ass Joe, probably because I am,hopefully because I'm passionate. I do not intend to cram anything down anyones throat,nor do I want or need anyone to agree with me. I certainly see a lot of facts that I cannot possibly explain away. I sure as hell went into this thinking Fab was nuts. I have seen SO much new,slowed down looked at evidence tonight that I have never seen before. I know all about typing a novel and erasing it !! It sucks! It is a time killer ! I apologize for my presentation,because I SUCK. I do not mean to try and talk down to anyone,,except maybe redsox.. I do not understand ,at all, what he is talking about. But, that is my problem.

[fabiodriven]

You are free to think and perceive what you want to Joe. I disagree with your perception of things.

Sox is insulting his own intelligence as well as everyone else's by ignoring the laws of physics. I have said he either doesn't understand the laws of physics or chooses to ignore them. I don't think he doesn't understand them at all, I think he's pretending he hasn't seen what he has. To me that shows a lack of integrity, assuming I am correct. I am not saying what I'm saying to offend Sox, I'm speaking for truth on something I believe to the core of my being, and I am speaking on behalf of people who are no longer here to speak. Sox fired this whole thing off by making a mockery of my beliefs, so here we are discussing them.

I am passionate about this as are countless people across the globe. This incident not only killed tons of people right off the bat, but it has shaped our country and planet and touched us all in one way or another. I don't care if you or anyone else likes what I and the others who think like me have to say because hurting someone's feelings is of little concern to me as compared to these atrocities that have taken place. Joe, science has proven that the story we're given is false, and you must have one hell of a story to tell if you're going to pick apart the video as well. Dan's attempt to pick it apart was a disgrace, that is truly how I feel.

I ask myself these questions a lot, how anyone can overlook this, how anyone could not see how ridiculous this farce all is, how it could mean so little to other people that an investigation isn't even warranted. The "investigation" that took place is a joke, plain and simple, and it's been ripped to pieces. Not by hearsay, not by guessing, but by the very simple fundamentals of physics and countless years of experience worldwide. I wonder why I still care and why so few others do, and I make a habit of examining all aspects of my own behavior because I've surprised myself in the past when I don't pay attention to exactly what it is I'm doing. I know I am right here, and Dan is wrong, and if being wrong is insulting to him or anyone else then you must have gotten the "everyone gets a trophy" deal growing up, because sometimes people are wrong. I'm farking wrong all the time! But this time, I am not. If I were, I wouldn't be insulted. If you or Dan or anyone else is offended by this then my suggestion to you is to grow up, because sometimes in life you're going to be wrong. In this instance, I take it to heart. I have examined why it is that I take this so personally, and I don't consciously think this in the front of my mind, but all I can gather is subconsciously my experience with war and then what has happened in my life since most likely associates this whole event with what my life, and this planet, are now. It hurts me. It hurts me deeply, and I take this very serious. If I have to hurt your feelings in the meantime that's fine but I will not lose focus on my ideals and the ideals that so many people share each day. You're a flag waver which is great, but do not carry it without question. I carried that flag with me to the other side of the planet and back because of my ideals. I couldn't wait to load up and kick ass or die trying, and I did a great job. I even volunteered to stay late when the call came down, and if you think it was any easy task to get 14 volunteers to stay in a combat zone after we'd been out in that sand as long as we were you have another thing coming my friend. I dare say I have more into this than you do, but the truth is we are all in this very deep, but my physical investment will not allow me to let this issue rest until I see the truth come out. I am a patriot, and not you nor anyone else is going to tell me otherwise. It takes controversial people to do controversial things, and it is my aim to help make doing the right thing not so controversial. I am not a liberal and I don't know what that is, nor do I care. I know the difference between right and wrong, I have a knack for science and physics, and I have an eye for bullshit. I have a very clear drive inside of me to do good, always have, and it has never led me wrong. I have done wrong before, sure, but I knew it full well. I wasn't unaware I was doing wrong, and I know I am right here.

If I'm upsetting you that's unfortunate. You should be upset, we should all be upset about this subject.

[86T3]

You don't get it John. You insult him and call him a liar, but his point wasn't stupid and it wasn't a lie. There is plenty of science that proves he his right and that you are wrong but you won't hear it. You want to be right, not get it right. If you spent 1/100th of the time researching why the towers fell instead of theories you would understand there are very valid, scientificly proven answers. But you that's not what you want to believe so you choose to call Dan a liar.

[fabiodriven]

No, no actually you're completely wrong Joe. I'm not looking for the outcome I choose and then backing it blindly, I'm looking for the truth and I don't like what I'm finding. It's quite simple.

[86T3]

Actual science that proves the truth.

https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/911NutPhysics.HTM

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/


https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11

[Dirtcrasher]

It's too bad because a person can review a couple hours or dozens of hours and be swayed one way or the other.

With both being great presentations with THEIR facts/Timelines etc etc.

Either way, it just falls along with it that there are certain things you make you question them. And points well made....

There was 1 particular 911 video done by an intelligent woman using photographs and common sense has allot to say about that day; And she's smart and interesting....; Just an interesting presentation/view she had.

I think John had originally put up the link or it was a subset thereof.

Scary times guys. I feel for your kids and grandkids growing up in this INSANE world!! Everyday you survive counts as a great day!!

[fabiodriven]

Actual science that proves the truth.

https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/911NutPhysics.HTM

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/


https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11

Again you're incorrect Joe. Just stating something is science doesn't make it science. In the first article that one person states his opinion but doesn't perform any science. I don't understand how people can continue to dismiss the laws of physics.

I appreciate the links and I'm sure this might insult you but it shouldn't. I am far beyond what you just showed me there.

When this subject first caught my attention, I didn't decide which side I should be on and then start looking for evidence to back the way I feel. I followed the best evidence which led me to the conclusion that the buildings did not come down the way it has been explained. The first link is one man's take, I'm not positive about the other two, but the video I posted is an entire army of people with some very serious qualifications, backed by thousands of signatures of other qualified persons as as well. You and I cannot sign their petition, you have to be a licensed architect or above.

You can't just tell me it's science and poof! It's magically science. It's the opinion of one person, who granted seems to have some credentials, however he's not presented any hypothesis other than he disagrees with what it is I believe. There simply is no science there. I really wish you or someone else could present something that is actual true science or physics, not guesses and theories or coincidence on top of coincidence, and one time only ever circumstances.

[fabiodriven]

If we're going to share some opinions, here are the opinions of some other people. This is just as much science as what was shared above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1EDKAW6DKw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWswmWh64OI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1eQPhqm93k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V55hC40BxD0

[atc007]

Joe, I would love to hear your thoughts on the 2 videos I posted in post 319. Your thoughts on the very clear explosions going on inside the towers,and of course, that airplane that struck the towers. They're only a few minutes long. I've slept on it, and I'm still in complete disbelief.

[El Camexican]

I`m trying to understand your question (i`m a little slow short bus) Is the question why didn`t the nose of the aircraft come out the back side of the building ? ......all i know is 2 aircraft hit 1 tower each .....they set the CHARGES .......EXPLOSIONS occurred in the lobby in the basement .......AND if you look at adjacent buildings windows were blown out like every third floor from Explosions ........when THEY hit the switch THERMITE was activated melting strategic steel columns ! The next day the aerial photographs should have shown A MOUNTAIN maybe half the height of the towers or leaning tower of pizza !!!! .......NO because the whole facken thing was turned to DUST !.... DISINTEGRATED ! .......military technology that we've never seen ......they like to show off ....they put on quite a show .......you gotta be DAMN good to hit those targets .........they were switched in mid air with military grey planes no windows .......piloted by drones !!! ....sept. `01 whats a drone ? ......IDFK !!!!

No question in the post you quoted, but in the other ones I am asking you to look at the videos that show something that appears to be the same shape as the nose cone of a jet that emerges on the opposite side of the tower that it entered on. It seems to indicate that the body of the aircraft stayed intact all the way through the building and emerged on the other side only to disintegrate a few yards after it was in clear air.

I believe the video tries to insinuate that this means it was a missile and not an aircraft that struck the building, or that the aircraft was somehow reinforced in a manner that allowed it to penetrate a steel building. I don't see how either is possible, yet looking at the video it would appear that an object did pass right through the building without changing its shape, and if it did why did it turn to dust and smoke after it emerged with no apparent explosion as all the debris seems to be falling downward in an arch.

Seems like we are either seeing some sort of visual phenomenal caused by this type of impact, or it could perhaps imply that somebody doctored the video and if that portion was doctored why not the ones depicting missing windows, appendages on the underside of the aircraft, different amounts of windows then expected, or tail number anomalies? If any doctoring whatsoever is present in a video the whole thing should be considered suspect. Making matters worse is that the videos are incredibly grainy.

[El Camexican]

In the week prior to 9/11, put options for United increased on a level of 285 times the norm. On September 10th, put options on American increased 60 times over normal. The only 2 airlines involved. A put option is essentially a bet that a stock will plummet.

That's very interesting. What's the source of that information?

[86T3]

Again you're incorrect Joe. Just stating something is science doesn't make it science. In the first article that one person states his opinion but doesn't perform any science. I don't understand how people can continue to dismiss the laws of physics.

I appreciate the links and I'm sure this might insult you but it shouldn't. I am far beyond what you just showed me there.

When this subject first caught my attention, I didn't decide which side I should be on and then start looking for evidence to back the way I feel. I followed the best evidence which led me to the conclusion that the buildings did not come down the way it has been explained. The first link is one man's take, I'm not positive about the other two, but the video I posted is an entire army of people with some very serious qualifications, backed by thousands of signatures of other qualified persons as as well. You and I cannot sign their petition, you have to be a licensed architect or above.

You can't just tell me it's science and poof! It's magically science. It's the opinion of one person, who granted seems to have some credentials, however he's not presented any hypothesis other than he disagrees with what it is I believe. There simply is no science there. I really wish you or someone else could present something that is actual true science or physics, not guesses and theories or coincidence on top of coincidence, and one time only ever circumstances.

The first link I shared was mostly opinion but there were science and physics in it. I'm not sure if you didn't read it or just missed it, here's some clips.

246995
246996
246997

The first link wasn't the best of the 3 and the author had quite a bit of snob in him, but he did make some points. The 2nd and 3rd links are the ones that really answer all the questions you pose and most every theory I've seen you guys share. I can't help but notice that you didn't read them, or at least ignored what they had to say. I won't read or watch anything you share until you do me the same courtesy.

Bill, i didn't watch the videos, I'll try to tomorrow. I suggest you read the links I shared. Like John said, the first one isn't the best but the others are full of detailed explainaitions to a lot of the questions you probably have

[El Camexican]

I`m a wise guy Guido from brooklyn Flatbush .........bad joke #1 ......ya know Fred Flintstone ? .........yeah i know Fred ........he lives next door to da Rubble`s ......HO HO HO HA ! not funny .......if the nose cone is your ah-ha moment ....so be it .......i think the camera`s trippin .......i would not pick that as my AH-HA ! moment ......i know you`re behind the iron curtain so when you get out ...... search DUSTIFICATION there are 3 short 10 min. clips ......weapons grade free energy .........thats what i`m trippin on .......where did the TOWER`S GO ??? ........they Disintegrated right before our very eye`s .......these are day after pic`s ........WHERE`S BARNEY ?????.......i`m getting pissed too many whiner`s ....:(:(:(:Bounce:(:(:( it`s not funny ......it`s not fun

I shall look at that and if it makes sense it could explain what my eyes see as well as the fall, but keep in mind they don't happen at the same time. Meanwhile people's brains are getting fried in Fidel's old place, so nothing's off the table when it comes to ray guns and light sabers.

[fabiodriven]

The first link I shared was mostly opinion but there were science and physics in it. I'm not sure if you didn't read it or just missed it, here's some clips.

246995
246996
246997

The first link wasn't the best of the 3 and the author had quite a bit of snob in him, but he did make some points. The 2nd and 3rd links are the ones that really answer all the questions you pose and most every theory I've seen you guys share. I can't help but notice that you didn't read them, or at least ignored what they had to say. I won't read or watch anything you share until you do me the same courtesy.

Bill, i didn't watch the videos, I'll try to tomorrow. I suggest you read the links I shared. Like John said, the first one isn't the best but the others are full of detailed explainaitions to a lot of the questions you probably have

Thank you. I got a bit dismissive when he stated that if what "our" version of what transpired were true, then there would be giant molten balls of concrete (the first paragraph you circled). I know for a fact there were giant molten balls of concrete because they showed it in the video from the architects and engineers. When he was wrong about that I started to care less, but I read on.

I did read the other two but the first guy threw me off and also it was getting late. I will read them again Joe.

[fabiodriven]

No question in the post you quoted, but in the other ones I am asking you to look at the videos that show something that appears to be the same shape as the nose cone of a jet that emerges on the opposite side of the tower that it entered on. It seems to indicate that the body of the aircraft stayed intact all the way through the building and emerged on the other side only to disintegrate a few yards after it was in clear air.

I believe the video tries to insinuate that this means it was a missile and not an aircraft that struck the building, or that the aircraft was somehow reinforced in a manner that allowed it to penetrate a steel building. I don't see how either is possible, yet looking at the video it would appear that an object did pass right through the building without changing its shape, and if it did why did it turn to dust and smoke after it emerged with no apparent explosion as all the debris seems to be falling downward in an arch.

Seems like we are either seeing some sort of visual phenomenal caused by this type of impact, or it could perhaps imply that somebody doctored the video and if that portion was doctored why not the ones depicting missing windows, appendages on the underside of the aircraft, different amounts of windows then expected, or tail number anomalies? If any doctoring whatsoever is present in a video the whole thing should be considered suspect. Making matters worse is that the videos are incredibly grainy.

Nico I don't know if you saw it but last night I posted a couple of videos on this. The videos purport that the planes were inserted digitally into the shots of the towers.

Personally the idea of that sounds ridiculous to me, however they showed some very compelling evidence that makes me think now that certainly is not an impossibility.

[El Camexican]

Nico I don't know if you saw it but last night I posted a couple of videos on this. The videos purport that the planes were inserted digitally into the shots of the towers.

Personally the idea of that sounds ridiculous to me, however they showed some very compelling evidence that makes me think now that certainly is not an impossibility.

I was watching a CNN reporter interview an eye witnesses to the first hit on live TV when the second jet came in. If any video narrator is going to suggest I open my mind to the possibility that all of that was pre-recorded and edited I'm not going to watch the rest of the video. It also adds validity to my belief that much of what is out there is simply garbage put together by people who are getting paid by YouTube for the views of their videos.

Trump said during his campaign that he was open to releasing the classified pages of the 911 report and taking on big pharmaceuticals. Animal Farm is my favorite book.

[atc12]

Somebody please show me the "science" that allows concrete and steel to literally turn to dust in mid air due to fire. Glamy is a guy that must have seen Dr Judy Woods videos and they seem to make the most sense. If you believe the official nonsense, I will sell you my ten crated 87 atc250r's for $5,000 each. Just send the check and I will try to ship them out asap!

[El Camexican]

In the week prior to 9/11, put options for United increased on a level of 285 times the norm. On September 10th, put options on American increased 60 times over normal. The only 2 airlines involved. A put option is essentially a bet that a stock will plummet.


That's very interesting. What's the source of that information?

Short on time? Let me help.

"Highly publicized allegations of insider trading in advance of 9/11 generally rest on reports of unusual pre-9/11 trading activity in companies whose stock plummeted after the attacks. Some unusual trading did in fact occur, but each such trade proved to have an innocuous explanation. For example, the volume of put options — instruments that pay off only when a stock drops in price — surged in the parent companies of United Airlines on September 6 and American Airlines on September 10 — highly suspicious trading on its face. Yet, further investigation has revealed that the trading had no connection with 9/11. A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades. The SEC and FBI, aided by other agencies and the securities industry, devoted enormous resources to investigating this issue, including securing the cooperation of many foreign governments. These investigators have found that the apparently suspicious consistently proved innocuous."

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.asp

Perfect example of how misinformation spreads. Someone publishes only the portion that promotes their cause and omits the parts that nullify it. Then other people like Damon don't do any addition research before further promoting a story that when looked in its entirety would in FACT appear to show that the investor probably lost money on 911.

[redsox]

Somewhere around post 307 I took a break. I took a step back to try and recap and see where I was, where the thread was going, and what, if anything, is being accomplished. I was disheartened. Specifically after post 234. I efforted greatly to absorb what was being offered. A great deal of time and energy were spent, as I thought I was involved in a worthy and intellectual discussion. I was woefully mistaken. Try as I might, there is no way to illicit an exchange of ideas in this arena. Ears are blocked. Eyes are shut. Minds have been made up. John Stuart Mill believed that those who considered clashes among competing views unnecessary in the search for truth wrongly presumed the infallibility of their own opinion. I would agree with ole' Millzy here. You cast stones, and call yourself truth seekers. You revel in your own perceived wisdom and surround yourself in the false comfort of the stoic patriot. You see, when you read this thread, and others like it, you realize that not once has there been a critical examination of the thoughts of those who do not accept the conspiracy. Rather, the criticism comes of the thinker. Flaws are exposed in the one who proposes arguments instead of in the arguments themselves. This form of discussion does not lead to truth.

I have read this thread again, as well as the two Vegas threads. Forgive my repetition, but I must reiterate that I never intended to get as deep into the 9/11 stuff as I have. I had a point to make, and it is as follows. I wanted to assert that it is my opinion that those among us who choose to believe in the various common and popular conspiracy theories all seem to follow the same path. I was interested in the how, what, and why of it all. Not the how, what, and why of 9/11, but of Conspiracy Theorists*. I thought to myself, what is it that makes the minds of these intelligent men consistently seek out alternate, varying, and sometimes wild explanations for the events that occur in our world? It fascinates me. I have a working theory, that i will post in the coming days over in the vegas thread that I started. I hope to get your opinions on it, good or bad. I will not further pervert this 9/11 thread with psychobabble. I do reserve the right to continue to post here about the subject at hand if I feel I have something of value to add, but I will no longer argue with the wind.

* I had been respecting John's wishes and referring to the group in question as Hypothesis Proponents out of respect for his ideas and his position on the subject. Respect must be a two way street.

[El Camexican]

What he said.

I really did convert from believing that everything happened the way Big Brother said it did, to not believing it happened the way we were told about a year back, but the latest rehashing of this thread is really opening up my eyes as to how much BS there is out there and how many people have taken the bait along with the hook line and sinker.

"Those who considered clashes among competing views unnecessary in the search for truth wrongly presumed the infallibility of their own opinion" That right there sums it up perfectly.

I look at this like a court case; If you have a murder defendant found with a bloody knife in his car and an eye witnesses that puts him at the screen of the crime he's probably guilty, but if there is a video of him checking into a hotel and using his credit card on the other side of the country at the same time he's alleged to have committed the crime he's probably going to be found innocent.

If your not going to look at all the evidence with an open mind you'll never know the truth.

[El Camexican]

For your consideration ...... Dr. Judy Wood IRREFUTABLE (HD full length) 48;34 = free energy technology dvd ........there are open minded ........and there are whiny little biotches ........stop making excuses ......and thinking money is going to save you .......they will say anything to keep you productive .........i`m suggesting that CUM-BY-YAH foogen moment .......it`s gonna blow your mind.......

Shall do...

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Somewhere around post 307 I took a break. I took a step back to try and recap and see where I was, where the thread was going, and what, if anything, is being accomplished. I was disheartened. Specifically after post 234. I efforted greatly to absorb what was being offered. A great deal of time and energy were spent, as I thought I was involved in a worthy and intellectual discussion. I was woefully mistaken. Try as I might, there is no way to illicit an exchange of ideas in this arena. Ears are blocked. Eyes are shut. Minds have been made up. John Stuart Mill believed that those who considered clashes among competing views unnecessary in the search for truth wrongly presumed the infallibility of their own opinion. I would agree with ole' Millzy here. You cast stones, and call yourself truth seekers. You revel in your own perceived wisdom and surround yourself in the false comfort of the stoic patriot. You see, when you read this thread, and others like it, you realize that not once has there been a critical examination of the thoughts of those who do not accept the conspiracy. Rather, the criticism comes of the thinker. Flaws are exposed in the one who proposes arguments instead of in the arguments themselves. This form of discussion does not lead to truth.

I have read this thread again, as well as the two Vegas threads. Forgive my repetition, but I must reiterate that I never intended to get as deep into the 9/11 stuff as I have. I had a point to make, and it is as follows. I wanted to assert that it is my opinion that those among us who choose to believe in the various common and popular conspiracy theories all seem to follow the same path. I was interested in the how, what, and why of it all. Not the how, what, and why of 9/11, but of Conspiracy Theorists*. I thought to myself, what is it that makes the minds of these intelligent men consistently seek out alternate, varying, and sometimes wild explanations for the events that occur in our world? It fascinates me. I have a working theory, that i will post in the coming days over in the vegas thread that I started. I hope to get your opinions on it, good or bad. I will not further pervert this 9/11 thread with psychobabble. I do reserve the right to continue to post here about the subject at hand if I feel I have something of value to add, but I will no longer argue with the wind.

* I had been respecting John's wishes and referring to the group in question as Hypothesis Proponents out of respect for his ideas and his position on the subject. Respect must be a two way street.


I stepped out when I among others were called trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro retarded for not jumping on board. I have no problem with having a respectful debate with folks who may not share my views, and most here have done just that. But I will not be insulted simply because I don't agree. Until the trash is taken out, I'm done with threads like this as I have better things to do than spend my time putting together a thoughtful statement being careful to stay respectful of other people only to be childishly insulted for it. Adults know when to agree to disagree, children resort to name calling

[atc007]

Actual science that proves the truth.

https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/911NutPhysics.HTM

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/


https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11

Dear God,,,I swore I was done here... I did...........I read your "reports " Joe.... They clearly had ZERO slant right? .....I MUCH prefer unedited video from the day September 11th 2001 myself.. Not someones report supporting his own agenda.....Sorry, I'm not a quote specialist,but I am now quoting from your links..... A skyscraper is made up mostly of AIR...... The floors pancaked onto each other.....There were explosions in 7,so what,7 WAS pulled,,,by the fire dept and it's owner in 3 hours,so what?......End quotes,.I AM DONE here. SMH. Agree to disagree, it's a beautiful day out ;) El,,, most of the footage I watch is from that day. Not edited. Still not sure what you saw. I will watch it when you can post it ...And,BTW, I forget who was asking about molten lava formed concrete. If you have watched very many videos. Yes, there were tons and tons of steel/concrete balls.. Never happened before,hasn't happened since?

[fabiodriven]

Dan you can sob all you want, if anyone's feelings are hurt cry away. You talk about casting stones, you made ridicule of my beliefs in a public forum. You and I will disagree as long as you continue to assert your opinion against the laws of physics. It's simple ego. Let go of it, there is no shame. The laws of physics Dan.

Joe it's unfortunate Damon scared you off and I made myself clear with him. That was a BS move on his part and the kind of crap that sets what we both stand for back a notch, so thanks a lot for that Damon. If that's all it takes for you to duck out Joe, to each their own.

Nico I posted the very videos YOU were referencing about the nose cones, then you shot down the videos that YOU brought up.

Swatland your articles are crap, plain and simple. I don't know how else to say it.

It is astonishing to me that so many people can all sit and live their lives after overwhelming scientific and physical evidence proves what we've been told is false, and I am truly taken aback by the choice of the majority to simply ignore the laws of physics. It really is far more simple than this has been made.

My personal opinion, I am ashamed to have served you people. That's as simple as I can possibly put it. Subject closed.

[86T3]

You're denying science and physics if you say the 2nd and 3rd articles are crap. The towers didn't "free fall", proven over and over. You are the one wearing the blinders buddy. There is no debating with someone who's mind is made up, you won't even look at the proof. I'm sorry you can't look at this objectively.
A tower "collapsing it's own footprint"
247058

[fabiodriven]

I read your articles Joe. This thread is five years old. I have forgotten more about this subject than you will ever know. While you guys are watching football and BS Game of Thrones I am studying, have been for years.

The information you're giving me is the equivalent of handing the top CAT mechanic in the country a sheet of paper on how to perform an oil change.

[Billy Golightly]

Y'all still debating if planes hit the wtc and Pentagon? Lol, I remember this conversation from like 5 or 6 years ago. My opinions and observations are the same from then :p