It's that time of the year again.. Heating{ Electric} question...Opinions?

[atc007]

So,,,I've spent the weekend starting to enclose our front porch. It's 12x36. I heat with a coal stoker @ roughly $160 a ton. I AM putting electric heat in this room. This is a long story I will try and keep short. I grew up w electric heat ,,in a Tiny home. Sure it cost more. But it is clean,quiet and perfect! In my home,I have fought Wood,,propane,and now coal. I'm 4800 SQ ft inside,will be 5232 now w the room. I WANT to go whole home electric,,but my neighbor is a mechanical contractor and tells me I'm insane. No arguments there. Anyhow,, I am fairly sure I am putting 2, 8 or 9 ft Hydronic baseboard heaters in my new room. Anyone here know of a Better/efficient electric heat? A little more info. The home came w a propane furnace. Besides the $2 a gallon,,I also get to pay $70 a month for the electric to BLOW the air. Same w the coal stoker. Downstairs I have a ventless propane wall heater. That thing was absolutely incredible! But,,ate propane like no ones business. My grandpa had a electric "storage" heater that heated up in off peak hours,and stored the heat in bricks.. I guess it didn't pan out. My long winded ?? is,anyone know of a cheaper electric heat?

[bkm]

Have you looked into infrared heat. Very efficient from what I hear and safe.

[KASEY]

radiant heat from the floors is way cool!!! and worth looking into... we are just coming off our big electric AC bills for the year,,, glad its winter no ac and no heat for 4 months!!! yes!

[Micahdogg]

Prices will obviously vary from region to region - but a few things that come to mind...what is availability like on stoker coal around there? Around Illinois there were about 13 mines providing it and now about 3. It's starting to be a thing of the past vs. mine run grade. Also, I don't think my costs here would change much if I was all electric. But we have gone a week without power on a couple occasions in the past 20 years. As long as you have a backup and your electric costs are reliable I wouldn't sweat going all electric.

[kb0nly]

I have radiant base board heaters in every room of the house, my house is insulated so well that a single four foot baseboard heater in my living room keeps it comfy all winter long even on the coldest of MN days. I have two foot heaters in the kids bedrooms and a three footer in the kitchen and the main bedroom. The bathroom has a fan forced electric heater that is just awesome to crank up before you go in to take a shower on a cold day, and i have two four foot heaters in my basement to heat my space i used down there. I love electric heat for one main reason, i can zone every room of the house, everyone can have their comfort zone at night, all the heaters in the unused rooms get turned down when we get up in the morning and turned back up before bed. At 9.5 cents per kwh here its the cheapest heating source. I spend less on heat then my neighbor with a remodeled home and efficiency gas furnace, the natural gas prices are sky high, they burn off $200-$300 a month in natural gas depending on how cold it is, some of that use is their gas stove as well but not a lot. I use about $150-$200 a month for heating. I did spend a few grand on reinsulating the entire house, new siding and house wrap, redoing the attic, etc. But its all paying off now!

[El Camexican]

Electric heat… hmm let me think back to what it was like to spend the weekends at my best friend’s house which was 100% baseboard heated when it was -40. I recall dry eyes, itchy and eventually bleeding noses (what can I say, I was a "picker”) all kinds of static electricity and massive heating bills his dad would complain about. Give me a modern circulating boiler and radiant heat any day.

[kb0nly]

A humidifier fixes all those problems, and is needed even if you have a furnace. I run a humidifier on the first and second floors, they only need water once a week, and i can maintain the humidity to a comfortable level. Humid air also feels warmer, by keeping the humidity at a comfortable level you also make the heating more effective because you feel warmer. Dry air always feels colder. Thats why up here in the midwest just about every house gets a whole house humidifier on the furnace or a standalone unit somewhere.

I used to complain about high heating bills, then i ditched my furnace and went to electric heat, now i can't complain when i hear my neighbors talking about $4 fuel for their oil furnace.

[atc007]

Thanx for the feedback guys! I was beat and went to bed after I posted. And as usual,I had rambled on and wasn't clear! I have a stoker coal stove right now. Coal is ?? $215 a ton around here. I payed $155 last year,I have about 4 tons left ,will need about 4-5 to go through the winter. here's the thing. I am Anal meticulous about taking the coals out ,and the dust is just awful!! That in itself is unacceptable to me. For 10 years with our gas hog propane heat. We never dusted.. Literally,,I would dust maybe once a month to say I did. Now?? EVERYDAY! Bryan,,I was actually the 1st around 2003?? When the Edenpures came out to buy them. I bought One,but it in my parents home,which again,is TINY! I think it's 16x36 downstairs? It heated that home fine everyday right down to sub zero. Now,,in this house,,whole different story. 12ft ceilings and my Sq footage. Bad news. KB,,I LOVE what your doing and that IS where I'm headed! Screw ALL these pros telling me I'm nuts! I GREW UP with electric heat and that's where I'm headed! I am insulating the crap out of this addition and wrapping it. Then reflective on top of the insulation. Problem?? Well,I'll take pics when I'm done! HUGE ass windows! Top of the line Jeld Wens ,but still windows. The good? They are facing the sun from sun up to about 2;30 PM. They should suck in the heat. Wood working is a Very close second passion of mine. I love building. Anyhow, KB,,I need you ear! I know you're an electric guru also! I wired the downstairs of my home the sheds and barns. But I am NO pro. Unfortunately,I know the answer here before I ask. To do this right,,baseboards in most all of my rooms. I will need to hardwire them right? That poses a very big PITA downstairs{ knotty pine ceiling all the way.} I have a huge 200A service panel,no problems with room there. And are yours hydronic? We are COLD here,,on top of a hill. But,I think you're just as cold or colder anywhere in MN!! We have frost and 28 as I'm typing this. It's GORGEOUS out!! All white! I guess when I posted I knew where I was going ,but it is awesome to here from someone who has DONE it ! I await your response! I am amped,,,I just needed to hear that ONE person who had done it! I'm shopping for the best dam hydronics I can find now!

[kb0nly]

Yes, hydronic electric baseboard heaters, they are the way to go, they give off very even heat and the element doesn't have to be on long to get the tube up to temp and then it slowly gives off its heat to the room, i like the comfort they provide, and being able to zone each room with the turn of a thermostat.

Can you go down through the floor to a crawl space or? Most of these you can just mount at the bottom of the wall and they have a knockout in the junction box to go down through the floor or back into the wall. Luckily i have a full basement so i just drilled through the floor at every heater location and run 12-2 back to the panel. Two heaters per 20a breaker depending on the length of the heaters, the smaller ones you can squeak by on three per circuit but i tend to go overkill and run two per circuit, on the longer heaters thats about 8a draw per heater, so 16a with a 4a safety margin.

I spent a lot of time talking to an electrician friend of mine before doing it, although i have also rewired my entire house myself, and yes it passed state inspection.

Spend the money on the insulation for sure, its cheaper than a high heating and cooling bill all year long! We get dang cold. Frost the last few nights, only up to the fifties/sixties for highs lately, and its only a drop in the bucket compared to what winter has in store. Last year we didnt get a lot of snow but had full weeks of below zero air temps.

[tri again]

However we heat, saving it is the key for me.
I carpeted my living room floor a couple times but opted for
gloss white concrete paint with a ceiling fan.
That concrete floor gets in the mid 70's and takes forEver to cool off.
(great for summer too, stays about 60 when it's 90 out)

Neighbor plumber keeps an elec water heater set at 'vacation' which is like
70 degrees and it keeps his tool room toasty and doesn't seem to affect
the electric bill.

I have water tanks (3x50gal) around my wood stove and they also hold heat
for a super long time.

Getting older and maybe wiser, wood and coal are labor intensive and actually
cost about the same as elec. with no dust.

[Dirtcrasher]

radiant heat from the floors is way cool!!! and worth looking into... we are just coming off our big electric AC bills for the year,,, glad its winter no ac and no heat for 4 months!!! yes!

He's got it; Thats the most efficient way to heat a building.

Waste oil is another source if you grab it free, just like guys getting the french fry oils from local the business.

Biggest thing is being very well insulated.....

[kb0nly]

I know a guy that made a closed loop heating system for his garage with a water heater and some baseboard water heaters, they look like the electric ones but have a copper pipe through them with fins that you just run hot water through. The water heater is set to something like 75 degrees on his big 80 gallon tank, he then feeds that to a small pump thats sold for pulling the hot water to a faucet faster when its a long way from the hot water supply and that supplies enough pressure to circulate the water through the heaters around the garage and back to the tank. It was cheap to build, works good, and is nearly silent except for the pump kicking on and off now and then. The way the pump is setup is the temp sensor for it was relocated to the return side, so the pump turns on til it senses hot water at the return to the tank then shuts off. When the water temp at the return drops below the threshold of the sensor it kicks the pump back on til its hot again. It takes care of itself. The key to a system like this is being large enough that it doesn't constantly recirculate, the water sits in the loop for a while giving up its heat and then slowly gets refreshed by short bursts of hot water from the pump.

I have been thinking a cheap DIY setup like this using pex tubing thats rated for being in poured concrete would be a cheap in floor heating system, no boiler needed just a simple hot water heater giving a slow supply of heat.

[ps2fixer]

I know a guy that made a closed loop heating system for his garage with a water heater and some baseboard water heaters, they look like the electric ones but have a copper pipe through them with fins that you just run hot water through. The water heater is set to something like 75 degrees on his big 80 gallon tank, he then feeds that to a small pump thats sold for pulling the hot water to a faucet faster when its a long way from the hot water supply and that supplies enough pressure to circulate the water through the heaters around the garage and back to the tank. It was cheap to build, works good, and is nearly silent except for the pump kicking on and off now and then. The way the pump is setup is the temp sensor for it was relocated to the return side, so the pump turns on til it senses hot water at the return to the tank then shuts off. When the water temp at the return drops below the threshold of the sensor it kicks the pump back on til its hot again. It takes care of itself. The key to a system like this is being large enough that it doesn't constantly recirculate, the water sits in the loop for a while giving up its heat and then slowly gets refreshed by short bursts of hot water from the pump.

I have been thinking a cheap DIY setup like this using pex tubing thats rated for being in poured concrete would be a cheap in floor heating system, no boiler needed just a simple hot water heater giving a slow supply of heat.

My dad had a very similar idea for house heating, but off a wood stove. I think heating water, is an effective way to heat a house. Just like electric, you can zone each room if done right, but everything for heating/storage of the water can be in one location.

[Thorpe]

As much as I like the hydronic heat... What's wrong with a good quality, 93% ng furnace? I just put a new one in this spring, (Bryant 60k, my cost under $600) and retro fitted my ductwork to zone my home, 3 zones... It hardly runs... It's amazing how evenly comfortable my home is now... Granted I did put new windows in this spring as well, but am excited to see the savings in my heating bill compared to my previous gas guzzler standing pilot furnace...

[Dirtcrasher]

Thing is, what is your house layout, where is there access and how much, what are the ceiling heights.

There are dozens of ways to do this; but, I would never put in an electric heating coil or electric baseboard heat.

I'm out of the game for now. But, one last job we did was a Vies-man sp?? (Super efficient) that hangs on the wall and is nearly silent. Stick on a manifold and run as many lines/zones as you wish. and place a water coil in the ductwork to heat a given area.

You could also get a heat pump/air handler they work best in a bit warmer areas of the country and you get AC too. They aren't complicated, they have a condenser outside with a reversing valve to either heat or cool.

And BTW the condensers even just 2.5 tons are getting huge due to efficiency.......

There are so many solutions and if your gonna stay there, buy the best and most efficient system you can afford!!

[kb0nly]

I would never put in another NG or FO furnace... But then electricity is cheap here. We had the first increase in cost in a decade or more, its 9.5 cents per kwh here now. I can heat my house on electric with my baseboard heaters for $80-120 a month depending on how cold it is. On fuel oil i would average $150. The NG here is outrageously priced, i know people that keep their furnace around 65-68 and wear layers of clothing all winter to help save the NG bill, its crazy.

However, i am sure this will change some day. The cost of making electricity keeps going up. We mainly got hit by an increase after the tornado took a huge toll on the utility companies last July, they spent millions recovering.

[badass350x]

Dam bill I feel sorry for you all,,, I would be lucky to use my heater 5 times a year lol!!! Just poking at yeah buddy...

[atc007]

Well,, After a LOT of hair pulling. I am about to go through yet another experiment. I got what I wanted.Long story short. I talked with TPI. They are an American made heater company in Tennessee. I was going hydronic. They highly suggested a wall heater for the main open portion of my home,and Hydronics in the bedrooms to supplement. I did neither. I wanted 240V. And I wanted 3 phase. But that was not cost effective to have the lines brought out here! I went with a 52000btu 240V single stage,,gun/torpedo. Yep,,in my home! It's electric,quiet,and will do the job,,,easily I'm thinking. ZERO loss through ductwork. My current electric price is 6.79 cents a KW. I went with a double poll 80 A breaker. Heater draws 63 amps @ full load,,X 1.25= 78 . 2/3 Romex SO wire,all new. Copper. I could have got aluminum for a tenth the cost. but not in my home., Not with heating. Should be set. I'll report back after some cold weather hits! I'm amped. Dust free,virtually silent,,,and Hassle free heat! This new room is eating my time up. Will post pics when it's done..

[300rman]

Ive heard a lot about Fujitsu systems on the radio.

The only problem I forsee with Electric is that Obama is raping and shutting down coal power plants. He already has shut down 1/5 of them, and many more on the chopping block. Well....nothing is being built to supplement this energy loss.....