1985 atc 250r issues need help

[fordtech90]

So I went out and road the 250r today it felt screaming fast to me but bowl gasket leaks at idle or atleast only time I noticed it and so we tore it down float is fine just needs bowl gasket. Went to check the plug and it was barely even finger tight so I tightened it up but plan to put new plug in it this week. But, when I went to loosen intake tube to take it off of carb I noticed the coolant reservoir was oil soaked but seems to be old even clumpy in some spots. I drained both radiators, the water pump and even pulled water pump front cover off (one bolt is stripped of course), and there was just a tiny bit of oil sitting at bottom of cover and anyways I would like to think it was misplaced thinking it was a fuel mix tank, or not cleaned out before past rebuild. I was told head gasket or anything head related cant actually cause oil in coolant on 250r's was told only thing that could was water pump seals or water pump itself. Would like to know how true that is? I plan to flush radiators and whole coolant system very well and soap and hot water clean reservoir and refill it with coolant. I drained crank case to check for antifreeze and see no signs of any coolant whatsoever. Whats best case oil? What is a good hotter than stock plug to use?

[rjs89ia]

being that its the reservoir its not out of the ordinary to have some crusty brown residue accumulate its good to clean it out but shouldnt hurt anything. to clarify the water pump seal is the only way oil can get into the coolant system vise versa for the case. if it was through the head gasket then you would have white smoke while your running. if the case oil wasnt milky and your coolant level wasn't noticeably low then theres probably no leak just keep an eye on the coolant level to be sure. br8es and br9es are your common plugs br9es being the hotter i believe, you should never need to run anything hotter than that. for case oil i run honda hp4m 10w40 synthetic. you can run just about whatever you want aslong as its quality and it meets or exceeds stock requirements. plenty of threads to search for case and mixing oil.

[fordtech90]

It wasnt crusty brown it was oil and I agree I think that its just old oil from before rebuild it had plenty of coolant in it. Going to do some cleaning and refill with the oil you suggested and one of the plugs you suggested. I am really wanting to put extended swingarm but having a heck of a time finding one on ebay or anywhere any ideas?

[fordtech90]

Still no help on swingarm?

[09RappySE]

For the swingarm...why don't you just go to a local weld shop and have it cut and extended, I did the same thing on my raptor and LTR...just a thought.

[09RappySE]

Here are the guys that do all the stock raptor swingarms, ...have heard nothing but good results about them.

Phone # 1-573-346-7600

or contact then through their facebook ad:

http://www.facebook.com/OutBackAluminumWelding


I am sure they can give you what you want.

[rjs89ia]

extended swingarms come up from time to time, i myself have a westcoast +2 on mine but thats an old aftermarket brand and they are usually pretty expensive along with some of the other aftermarket swingers from in the day. several people get there stock ones cut and extended and im sure you could find one on ebay somewhere so you dont have to do that but its always an option. alot of it is a waiting game just have to save and wait for what you want to show up on ebay or here.

[fordtech90]

I would really like to avoid cutting up stock swingarm.

[oile]

I had mine custom made at metal tech they make any length you want. ask for Tyler 623-915-9856 www.metaltechproducts.com

[09RappySE]

Check this link.....it is a +4 swinger for an 86, just happened to come across it this AM...to use this I think you would have to change your rear caliper and mount, maybe carrier as well.

http://www.offroadvintage.com/198586-Honda-ATC250R(1639455).htm

[RIDE-RED 250r]

OK, first things first... Yes, the only way you will mix tranny oil and coolant is via bad water pump seals..

Second, with NGK plugs, the lower the number the hotter the plug. I know, it's opposite of what you might think, but I am 100% sure that is how they run. I'm pretty sure the BR9ES is what is called for by the factory and that's what I run. I usually don't run hotter than called for plugs for a couple of reasons.. 1 being that sticking with the cooler plug will keep your engine safer on longer pulls. And 2, if the carb is dialed in jetted proper there is no need or real benefit IMHO to run a hotter plug.

Why are you looking to run a hotter plug? Alot of people play around with sparkplug heat ranges in an attempt to address what is really a jetting issue. I am running a BR9ES in my 350 big bore and I can ride all day without biffing a plug.. Riding hard or easy, doesn't matter....

Trans oil.. My Honda service manual calls for 10w-40. I run Valvoline 10w-40 ATV oil as it is specified "wet clutch safe". There are many trains of thought on "wet clutch safe" vs conventional motor oils and I'm not saying I am right or anyone else is wrong, But that is what I run and have had zero issues. My clutch life is outstanding, even with the higher HP of my big bore. You may however want to run the Honda HP trans oil if racing or riding hard in very hot weather. It is a thicker oil and probably holds up better to hard running in high temps.

As stated earlier, there are alot of "oil threads" and a quick search should flood you with lots of info to make your decision from.

Swingarm: The '85 swingarm, carrier and brake caliper mount are all unique to '85. I am not aware of any individual or company that makes custom swingarms to '85 specs. If you want to stretch her, you will either need to have your stocker cut and stretched or convert to the '86 rear end. Lots of makers are still building swingarms to '86-later specs, including our site leader BillyGolightly. He has them listed on the 3WW shop. They look awesome, I plan to get one at some point myself...

[fordtech90]

Rappy thanks alot for the link I emailed for a price on it that would be perfect. Ride Red really appreciate all the info the plug you mentioned is what ive already decided to go with seems to be what everyone is running. One of my friends whose built several banshees was tellin me get a hotter plug...im new to 2 strokes so i figured he knew what hes talking bout...but anyways thanks for letting me know there was a parts store on the website I would have had no idea if you wouldnt of told me they really need to advertise that better. Also, where can I get a aluminum front wheel? Looking for full set of wheels to put dune tires on

[RIDE-RED 250r]

The rear wheels are easy enough to acquire from just about any ATV parts source, but the front wheels for our old trikes are a little harder to come by.

Make sure you keep an eye on the classifieds here on 3WW when you gain full access or even post a WTB there as well. Watch ebay too. I am running OEM 350x front rims on both of my R's and I love them. I have always found that cast hub unique to the 350x OEM rims was very attractive. 86-87 200x front rims will swap over too, not sure about 85 and earlier though.

[rjs89ia]

If you go with a stock front wheel your tire selection will be very limited. Best to go with a 10 inch wheel thats got a larger selection of tires especially if you want a dune tire. You can do as RIDE-RED mentioned and watch the classifieds or try to contact Xowner and see when the next group buy on 10 inch wheels will be. I bought a 10 inch polished wheel from him and its very nice, custom fitted for our trikes and you can also get them in gold i believe.

[fordtech90]

I dont know how to get ahold of Xowner or I would gladly purchase a front 10 inch polished wheel! Id also really like to find someone with a plus 2 or plus 4 swingarm I can buy! I cant justify 500 on one from the shop and I forget what all I must swap to use an 86? I am mainly concerned about the stripped water pump cover bolt on it right now.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

To convert to the '86-later swingarm you will need an '86-later carrier, brake caliper mount and I'm pretty sure the caliper too. I'm not 100% you need the caliper so someone correct or verify me on that.

[rjs89ia]

just need the 86 bracket that bolts to the caliper.

[09RappySE]

The caliper part numbers are different....but they look the same in the drawing.

[fordtech90]

Well im afraid I have bigger fish to fry before i do an extended swingarm. I love and have always wanted a liquid R trike but I traded a perfect bike for a not so perfect at all bike. I have to tape a thread on water pump cover, and upon looking at left side case the case saver mounting bolts top and bottom are broke and one is cracked the damage causes no case leakage but I know that down the road Id like to replace the case...does honda still still the case? Does anyone here have one for sale not ruined?...Just really wish I had infinite money to bring it back to perfect...cause now that I started on it I wont stop til its right.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Honda cases are discontinued...

But ESR is making them now.... Doesn't look like they are available as of yet but wouldn't hurt to call and ask... Check it out http://www.eddie-sanders-racing.com/product_p/esr%20center%20cases.htm

[fordtech90]

Yeah I called and talked to an old school honda tech at a atv shop around here today he looked them up and they are discontinued thats what I was going to ask besides risking getting a junk case on ebay where else can I look. Also was told and thought others might want to know that 10w40 isnt an acceptable oil for case oil should use 80 or 85w transmission oil NOT gear oil. And also I believe the past person put bout 4 times too much because was told it only tanks a half a quart or a little more to fill it. Going to run the case til it gets actually broke but want to buy one for when time comes. Picked up two br8es NGK's today and coolant just got to find the case oil because so far no parts place I have went carries it.

[09RappySE]

Strange...according to the manual it calls for 10-40 oil??? did he say why?..I plan on using Klotz Flex Drive 30 Synthetic Gear Lube.

[fordtech90]

Well i didnt think it made sense when I read it either, or when I saw it on here or other places. Oil has came along ways in almost 30 years for one, and for two why would you use gear oil or motor oil for a transmission/clutches...doesnt make sense. Transmission oil is specially made just for transmission..added friction modifer to help with your clutch friction plates and whatnot...I just think 10-30 and 10-40 was put in anything that had a motor in the 80s...so thats what got used lol

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I have a Honda service manual for the 3rd gen 250r and it specifically calls for 10w-40 oil in the transmission. Now, viscosity ratings haven not changed over the years but as I understand, conventional automotive motor oil nowadays has other additives in it to reduce friction, help with emissions compliance and whatnot.

SO, I use 10w-40 motorcycle or ATV oil that specifies "wet clutch safe" in the description on the bottle. I am running a 350 big bore and my transmission and clutch are holding up just fine running 10w-40 wet clutch safe oil.

Now having said that, I would not hesitate to use Honda HP transmission oil in my R, espeically if I was to get into racing in very warm weather. But I am just a recreational rider and I change my trans oil roughly every 4-5 hours of operation.

I see no reason why 10w-40 was acceptable for Honda to recommend in a 250r trans in the 80's and not acceptable now for use in the same machine. As long as you make sure it is listed as wet clutch safe, the oil is the same.

I will say that there are as many different trains of thought on this topic as there are types of oil out there to run. Heck, there are quite a few people here who have run ATF for years with no issues.

Bottom line is, if you use an oil that is safe for use with wet clutches I believe that your regular mantainence regiment more directly effects transmission/clutch life than the type/viscosity oil you are using.

[Ed200x]

I use the Honsa HP oil here in Arizona. The reason Honda called for 10W-40 oil back in the day is because the gear/transmission oil back then was made to run in cars. Time goes by and science / chemistry improves things. 85W-90 gear oil is made for the stresses and shearing action that gears meshing create and seriously, 'ol motor oil is not the best thing to use if you can somehow use a gear type lubricant. Well, now you have that option. Considering the stress a 250r can put on a gear set I'll go with the wet clutch safe gear oil eg: Honda HP trans oil. However Ride-Red 250r is correct !00% when he states that regular maintenance and oil changes affect the life of your clutch / trans etc., etc, more than anything. In closing, the viscosity index for gear oil is not the same index used for motor oil. 85W-90 is similar to 20W-50 motor oil. Gear oil is rated more for shear strength and pressure resistance.