My 85 310r

[09RappySE]

Just got my resto-Mod back together, I still want to replace the rear fenders. but she is ready to go.....what do ya think?


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[ColtonGG33]

That's looks FINE... Woow I agree with you on those plastics, did you trim them down? Either way u got a sweet machine

[JasonB]

looks great man! how do you like the 310? did a great job on the resto, looks clean!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yet ANOTHER big bore!! AWESOME! :beer


If you want to get a complete OEM replica custom "310R" decal set, look up member Pantera1975. I have a set of his in "350R" and am very happy with them. Great quality, reasonable price too. He does the rad scoops and the decal that goes on the rear fenders behind the seat..

Oh, and for the love of all that is sacred, I hope you plan to get some 20's on the back of that thing! LOL! ;)

[09RappySE]

No, I got the bike with the rears trimmed like that....don't like it, I can't comment on the 310 yet as I have not even ridden yet....I will say it is a nice kit, good quality, went together well and fired right up....I need to get it to a buddy of mine for tuning, I have no idea about two strokes and how to tune them.......I will break it. lol

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I was referring to the 22" rear tires.... I was just bustin on ya a little. ;)


Lotsa hot-rods being built here over the last year or so.. :)

[09RappySE]

Its all good red....have not even thought about tires yet.

[threewheelin-feelin]

hey im right across the water. i am currently installing the exact same kit, pipe and carb. but we rebuilt the bottom end as well. cant wait to get mine done. yours looks awesome!!

[threewheelin-feelin]

got a ride report yet on this bike? i just got mine all in the frame and almost everything hooked up. im still waiting on my mechanical seal for the water pump. but i do have some questions. what part number spark plug did they recommend? and what kind of break in procedure? im also lost with tuning a 2 stroke lol

[fire1]

Looks great!

[atc007]

Very nice work. What a beauty !!

[09RappySE]

Thanks all....No ride report yet, won't get a chance to take it out for another two weeks.
Here is a scan of the sheet that came with the kit.

166447

[threewheelin-feelin]

Thanks all....No ride report yet, won't get a chance to take it out for another two weeks.
Here is a scan of the sheet that came with the kit.

166447

thank you. im very curious why my kit didnt come with that. i got the stage 2 race kit. . .also what is the deffinition of a heat cycle

[fire1]

Here's another break in sheet that CT Racing uses describes heat cycle



Break In Procedures

1) Start your engine and let idle occasionally blipping the throttle for four to five minutes. Allow the engine to cool completely. Repeat this "heat cycle" process four more times.

2) Warm up the engine again and ride the bike for five to seven minutes at a very easy pace, vary the rpm, don’t ride at one speed. Don’t ride at more than 1/3 throttle or more than 1/3 rpm. Let the engine cool down completely and repeat the initial break in ride. Let the engine cool down.

3) Check the base nuts and head nuts for proper torque, check the coolant level and add coolant as necessary.

4) Ride the bike for five to ten minutes at a moderate pace, vary the rpm, don’t ride at more than 3/4 throttle or more than 3/4 rpm. Let the engine cool completely and repeat this secondary break in twice more.

5) Replace the spark plug with a new one. Ride the bike for five to eight minutes at a moderate pace, vary the rpm and shift up and down the gears. Once the engine is up to operating temperature you can make a jetting pass. Start in second gear and ride at full throttle through fourth gear, fully revving out fourth gear. With the throttle wide open in fourth hold the kill button down, pull in the clutch and stop. This is called a "plug chop"

6) Read the spark plug. With a pocket flashlight and a magnifying glass look at the porcelain part of the plug only, as you view the plug from the center electrode look down the length of the porcelain to its base, at this point there should be a dark chocolate colored smoke ring. There was not sufficient time to thoroughly color the whole plug, so the nose of the insulator may still be white, as long as there is a visible dark ring at the base everything is OK. Remember we want break in jetting so the plug should read rich/dark. Richen the jetting as necessary. If your having a hard time reading the spark plug, after the jet pass put the plug in a vice and hacksaw around the plug at the washer. Break the threads off with vise-grips, and the porcelain will be easy to read.

7) Complete the break in by riding at an aggressive pace for fifteen minutes, vary the rpm and don’t cruise at part throttle, ride hard without revving the engine too high. At the end of this final break in session do another jetting pass/plug chop as described above. Check the spark plug for the correct dark/rich condition. Wiseco Piston equipped engines will require another one or two break in cycles, ride at a recreational pace not revving the engine hard, full throttle should only be used for very short periods, fifth and sixth gear should only be used to cruise, ride one tank of gas through the engine in this manner to complete the break in. We feel it take about two gallons of gas to break in a motor equipped with a cast piston and five gallons for a motor equipped with a Wiseco.

8) Replace the spark plug with a new one, ride the bike aggressively for eight minutes and do a jetting pass/ plug chop in fifth gear. If the porcelain color is still dark/rich, lean the main jet size one at a time until the smoke ring at the base of the porcelain is a light brown. If the porcelain base is white, don’t run the engine and contact CT. If the plug color looks good, continue riding at a race pace for ten minutes. Stop and let the engine cool. Check the torque on the cylinder base and head nuts.

9) More on jetting. If you generally run your engine flat out in sixth gear then make your jet pass/ plug shop in sixth. Motocross jetting is checked in fifth gear, therefore it is not safe to run MX jetting in the desert or down a road wide open in top gear. Desert jetting is richer than MX jetting. When running an engine at full throttle for extended periods be sure to chop the throttle decisively to slow down, just rolling out a little can seize a well jetted engine.

trailpro

[threewheelin-feelin]

so do you ESR guys use the maxima 927 oil? i was using bell ray H1R synthetic in my last top end and it lasted me 4 years of hard riding and it had been ridden hard before i got it.

[ezmoney1979]

Looks great! Very nice job on the resto-mod:beer

[yamaha225dr]

I will be getting this kit for my 250r when it's time for a rebuild! You have a nice ride!

[09RappySE]

so do you ESR guys use the maxima 927 oil? i was using bell ray H1R synthetic in my last top end and it lasted me 4 years of hard riding and it had been ridden hard before i got it.

No, I am a Klotz guy....I am using the Super Techniplate. although there is nothing wrong with maxima's stuff.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

so do you ESR guys use the maxima 927 oil? i was using bell ray H1R synthetic in my last top end and it lasted me 4 years of hard riding and it had been ridden hard before i got it.

I use Maxima 927 and so far am very pleased with it.

[09RappySE]

I got her out a little yesterday and all I can say is WOW.....I forgot how fast theese bikes are...with the kit it is ALMOST too fast, I was running 22" 4 snows at the time and they have pretty good traction, and it was all I had to keep the front end down, I have not even opened her up yet or tuned her in.....I also could not believe how many people stopped to drool and take pictures of the bike, I actually got tired of answering questions. I think I will get some real tires (20") and see how it goes, I may see an extra 4" on the swinger in the near future.

[oldskool83]

get rid of the ballon tires, besides that I'd rather see an R front headlight. looks nice.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yeah, get used to having your pic taken by strangers when you are out riding that thing!! It's happened to me more than once! LOL!

[threewheelin-feelin]

I got her out a little yesterday and all I can say is WOW.....I forgot how fast theese bikes are...with the kit it is ALMOST too fast, I was running 22" 4 snows at the time and they have pretty good traction, and it was all I had to keep the front end down, I have not even opened her up yet or tuned her in.....I also could not believe how many people stopped to drool and take pictures of the bike, I actually got tired of answering questions. I think I will get some real tires (20") and see how it goes, I may see an extra 4" on the swinger in the near future.

i saw you out at slades yesturday. never got to catch up to you tho lol. i was out on my 350x. i see slades facebook has a couple pics of your bike. if you want a real good time come on down to busco beach this weekend. me and a bunch of my buddies are going

[09RappySE]

i saw you out at slades yesturday. never got to catch up to you tho lol. i was out on my 350x. i see slades facebook has a couple pics of your bike. if you want a real good time come on down to busco beach this weekend. me and a bunch of my buddies are going

I think I saw you as well.....been to busco many times, this weekend we will be at dunn/benson track for the 4 stroke wars drag race....thinking of making it to busco for memorial day weekend.

[Swinger]

Cool build. Looks great. I like the x headlight setup.

[threewheelin-feelin]

just wondering if you ever got the carb jetted and fine tuned? i just had mine out at busco this weekend breaking it in. id like to see where you ended on on you main, pilot and needle settings

[09RappySE]

I am at 170 main 52 pilot with the needle in the middle.....

where are you at with yours?

[threewheelin-feelin]

i have not messed with the pilot or needle yet. . .but i am at a 172 main and it seems like it is still running rich. i think the only difference in our set ups is im running a stock airbox with a k&n filter. so i may have to go a little leaner. how is yours doing at thoughs settings? is that how your going to keep it? and is the 52 pilot the factory setting?

[barnett468]

Hello 09rappyse and threewheelin feelin.


Hopefully the following info will be of interest and benefit to you.

xxxxx

09rappyse

I have no idea about two strokes and how to tune them.......I will break it. Lol

If you have a knowledgeable frien as you say you should be ok however it might not hurt to have him read the following info as well as other break in info posted to see what he thinks.

xxxxx

Threewheelin feelin

what kind of break in procedure? im also lost with tuning a 2 stroke lol

See info below

xxxxx

also what is the deffinition of a heat cycle

A very short explanation is to prevent the motor from getting too hot during break in thus reducing the potential for heat related engine damage.

xxxxx

so do you ESR guys use the maxima 927 oil? i was using bell ray H1R synthetic in my last top end and it lasted me 4 years of hard riding and it had been ridden hard before i got it.


In general it doesn’t matter what anyone runs providing it is good quality oil specifically designed for their intended use. I used Bel Ray years ago with good success. All the factory Kawi guys used Kawi oil. Maxima 927 is simply the best however it will not mix well with any other oils.


The 2 most important things to address for a safe break in 1. Don’t run it hard for 3 hours or so. Honda says 5 hours. 2. Do not break it in lean.

BREAK IN JETTING – I suggest getting suggestions from other 310 owner’s regarding this. Post your carb type and size. If they have similar carbs then just go up 1-2 main sizes from them if you are in similar climates and elevations etc. Many, many people damage their engine breaking them in too lean. This recently happened to another member here.


BREAK IN INFO

I would assemble with very light coat of 2 stroke oil, place fan on motor then start, turn idle up slightly to around 1000 and let run by itself for 20 minutes, turn off and let cool for 20 minutes, repeat process one more time, then follow recommended Honda technique which whyzee was kind enough to post.. Although it is designed for motors with full rebuilds ie new crank bearings etc, it is still a safe and sound way to do it after rebuilding top end only also. It may also be good to go up one size on main for now providing no other performance upgrades have been added since last jetting.

For riding portion of break in, install new spark plug rating 8 or 9 [do not use champion the heat ratings are reversed], check plug color after 30minutes, white is bad [lean], light tan is good [just right], dark brown or black is bad[ too rich].

Honda recommends 5 hours break of easy riding, see below.

If you notice a significant flat spot with NO burble/sputter” upon acceleration then your jetting is too lean and should be corrected before continuing to avoid potential engine damage.

I have a couple questions which answers might help prevent future piston seizure if you don’t mind.

What EXACT oil and ratio are you running?

The following article was written by my friend Harry Klemm. Builder of many National and Series Championship bikes including one of mine.


About Proper Break-In Procedure

We have all met him …. The racer who boldly says “I break em in the same way I race em … just ride em full throttle”. Very sadly, there are a small few sets of circumstances were this bold guy is right.

Short Term Setups for short Term Break-ins - There are a number of engine builders who (for their own reasons) will set up the top end clearances of a high-performance two-stroke (piston & ring end-gap) considerably looser than factory spec. The most common reason for doing this is that the engine is prepared in a way that will cause very rapid wear to the piston and rings. Engines like this, often run very wide exhaust ports with very little radius for the rings. Such an engine would seriously wear the piston and rings before any break-in period could be completed, and so they are clearanced to go into immediate service with no real break-in at all.

In such engines, the loose piston clearances not only accelerate piston collapse and ring wear, but they also induce very heavy wear on the cylinder walls (especially around the exhaust port). While everything about this setup sounds short sighted and perishable (it’s both) there is an abundance of builders setting up engines in this way. At Klemm Vintage, we do not (and will not) build such an engine platform. Our engine sets are built for good long term wear and performance … and as such our setups “do” require break-in….. here is why.

A Bit of History - In the early years of high performance two-strokes, most piston rings were a raw cast iron material that very literally had to “wear-in” to perfectly seal on the new cylinder bore it was fit to. With such rings, it often happened that “full ring sealing” didn’t take place until the ring had been in service for a good number of hours. Getting any racer to run the engine easy for that stretch of time just wasn’t going to happen. To help ease this problem, manufacturers applied a soft Teflon “skin” on the outside of the ring sealing surfaces. This soft Teflon skin “sealed” to the new bore in a much shorter amount of time, making for faster break-in and true “sealed” performance in a shorter amount of time. The down side was that when the Teflon wore completely away, the ring end-gap became excessive for “ideal” performance, and the ring tension against the bore was also not ideal. This was a particular performance problem on high-rpm small-bore racing setups.

Wise engine builders began setting up these top ends with “much closer than spec” piston clearances in an effort to get proper ring-end gaps when the Teflon skin wore completely off the rings…. And it worked great as long as you had an oil with a very high film strength. What didn’t work out great was that the break-in time required for such setups was much longer … and no pro-racer could be trusted to “go easy” on the engine for that long.

The solution was to simply let the engine run 60-90 minutes on a stand at a high idle, with a fan or breeze blowing across the fins. This initial run-in wears away the majority of the “skin” off the piston rings. In addition, it gives the cylinder bore and piston-skirts time to “get familiar” with each other in a “low load” atmosphere. This is a procedure that we still use (and strongly recommend) today. It bears noting that after this “static” break-in running, there is still some “loaded” break-in operation needed. However the risk of a piston-scoring event during that break-in ride is greatly reduced.

About Wiseco Piston Break-in - There are an abundance of two stroke enthusiasts that speak with very little enthusiasm about Wiseco pistons. The common response is “you have to give them lots of clearance … otherwise they seize”. We couldn’t disagree more … and here is why.

In the 1970s, we made many attempts to use Wiseco pistons in two-stroke race motors…with very poor results. The truth is that Wiseco (at that time) had numerous materials and design issues that needed resolving. However, Wiseco has done a great job of evolving their materials and designs since the 70’s, and today’s Wiseco Pistons are an excellent choice for most high-performance two-stroke platforms. All that said, Wiseco pistons do have one design issue that they have intentionally have not tried to resolve … longer than average piston-ring break-in times.

The forged material that Wiseco uses for their forged pistons does require “a little” more clearance and a little longer break-in that typical “cast” type pistons … but that is not the unresolved design issue…. It’s the rings. The piston ring material that Wiseco uses is a very tough material that takes much longer than average to “seal” to the bores. While the Wiseco pistons themselves are not a particularly close clearance fit to the bores, the Wiseco rings are. In truth, the Wiseco rings are made brand new with an end-gap that is much too small for full temperature high rpm operation. However if a Wiseco equipped engine gets the slightly longer than average break-in period it deserves, the outer-skin will wear off the rings to result in an ideal “running” end-gap that will give excellent long term wear and service. If however, you try to run Wiseco piston rings prematurely hard, those rings will quickly expand until the ring ends make contact and literally “bite” the full bore diameter in the ring path. Some engine builders incorrectly give Wiseco pistons excessive piston clearance in an effort to resolve this ring end-gap issue.

We respectfully submit that Wiseco pistons can be fit with very close clearances, and offer great service … as long as you let the rings have their break-in time. Our 8500rpm Kawasaki Bighorn road race bikes are equipped with 82mm Wiseco pistons fit at .0035” clearance. These pistons never showed the slightest sign of piston scoring, even after 25+ hours of racing, dyno-passes and high speed testing. You cannot abuse a piston harder than we abused these…. But we did give the rings a long gentle break-in.

About “Dry Top End Assembly” - One step that helps reduce break-in times is to assemble the top end with no oil at all on the piston skirt or cylinder walls. This step has a history worth telling.

In the middle 1960s and early 1970s American muscle-cars were a very popular item on automotive showroom floors. At that time, it was standard procedure for Detroit manufactures to assemble all automotive engines with a generous helping of oil on the cylinder bores and pistons. When these muscle-cars were first fired up, the assembly oil on the bores would burn onto the bores as a glaze that took a very long time for the rings to wear through before sealing.

Unfortunately, this assembly process caused problems for salesmen in the showroom. When prospective buyers took a muscle-car out for a test drive, it was a given that there would be at least one full throttle blast involved. During that full throttle blast, the poorly sealing rings allowed considerable oil to pass, and the brand new muscle-car would leave a big plume of unattractive blue oil smoke that could be seen in the rear view mirror…. Buyers were understandably put off by anything that appeared to be “already burning oil”.

This was a very real problem that Detroit had to address. In time, they learned that if they assembled the top ends dry, with no oil on the bores or pistons, they could avoid this initial burned on cylinder glaze. The result was much shorter ring sealing times (because the rings didn’t have to wear through that glaze), and the absence of blue smoke from those important test drive blasts.

This same rule applies to two-strokes … vintage or not. Some owners shy away from this assembly process because they fear scoring the piston … but it is an unfounded fear. On such assemblies, we do apply assembly oil to all the lower end bearings. In the first moments of initial combustion, that lower end assembly-oil disperses on the bore in even quantities that are easily enough to avert any kind of scoring. In addition, it bears noting that the lubrication needs of an unloaded engine spinning at very low rpm’s are very minimal. We have been assembling high performance two-strokes in this way since the early 1970’s. It works … and it results in greatly reduced ring sealing / break-in times.

Hope this info helps.

[barnett468]

Hello


Sorry I did see the second page. My post was a response the the first page only.

I do not have and edit button so I can't delete it.

Glad you got your bikes up and running ok.

[barnett468]

#$#@ No edit button.

I meant "I did NOT see the second page."

[09RappySE]

Thanks for the info Barnett, I really have NO experience with 2 strokes....I have friends that have been doing it for a while to help me...I am running a 32:1 mix of 93 and Klotz super techniplate oil....from ESR it came with a 185 main and a 48 pilot...when I first rode it it would hit hard on the bottom and mid and shortly after fall off, with advice from the guys I dropped the main to 170 and increased the pilot to 52. The powerband became much longer and it continued to pull up top...so that is where I left it, although the guys have said I need to go to a 160 main and 55 pilot. I did do three heat cycles on the engine prior to ridding it and it has only had about an hour of run time so far.

Here is what I have:

310 stg 2 ESR kit(no PV)
TRX 9 porting
ESR reed block and reeds
ESR side mount pipe
ESR airbox eliminator kit
38 PWK carb

[threewheelin-feelin]

the only difference in are builds are im using a air striker carb and stock air box. im also wonder what would be the best sprocket combination for 300ft drags with 20 inch tires

[09RappySE]

I am pretty sure we have the same carb....don't about gearing yet.

[threewheelin-feelin]

I am pretty sure we have the same carb....don't about gearing yet.

i tell you what if your buddie is real good at tuning 2 strokes i would be willing to pay him if he knows what hes doing

[09RappySE]

He would be more than happy to help, but he won't take any money....he just loves to work on these things...we have already reserved a full hook up spot at busco for memorial weekend if you want to come on out.....we will be in spot C29, just in front of the house near the drag strip. I have only been ridding in 300ft for a while.....I am looking forward to some trail ridding and relaxing.

[threewheelin-feelin]

He would be more than happy to help, but he won't take any money....he just loves to work on these things...we have already reserved a full hook up spot at busco for memorial weekend if you want to come on out.....we will be in spot C29, just in front of the house near the drag strip. I have only been ridding in 300ft for a while.....I am looking forward to some trail ridding and relaxing.

id love to come back out that weekend but we have already made our plans to head back out june 15th. if i can work out a change to that weekend that would be great. if you tell me a time and a place that i can bring it to him i will. and i would have to at least get him a case of beer or if he dont drink then a case of coke lol or something if he can get it dialed in