Attn: Engine builders Abradable coatings for Pistons

[TRITecate350]

I have been testing a newer technology for pistons lately. I have had some successful feedback on them and wanted to share this info. I want people to know, this is "NOT" a molly coating, or Teflon or ceramic coating. It is described as an "abradable coating for clearance control, anti-galling, and low friction". Looks like they powder-coat the pistons just below the rings and it kinda reminds me of a hard rubber foam coating... You can bore your engine to the exact size of the piston and in some cases you will need to tap in the piston. When you break in the engine, the coating wears in until a film of oil is present, or when the stress is released from the coating being too tight. After break-in, your piston will have the perfect piston to wall clearance, thus improving performance, quieter engine, protects the cylinder wall from wearing. etc. They have a few coatings for the piston, first one is armor coating, then a super slick coating over that coating. Also ceramic for the top if you want that.
Another cool benefit, you can send in USED pistons to be coated. Just be sure the ring lands are in good shape, and use new rings....
The company doing the coatings are Line to Line coatings in Michigan. I have had good luck so far with there turnaround time and they are nice guys. Here is the website. http://www.line2linecoatings.com.
248‑625‑3052


This has become a valuable tool for me to use for the tri-z big bore kits I have sold. Instead of going from 76mm to 76.5mm, you can bore your cylinder 10 thousands over or just enough to clean up the bore. Then have a piston coated for your bore. So instead of 4 bores for your expensive engine kit, you can have like 15. But you cant have a trashed or gouged up cylinder. It has to be cleaned up with the bore and hone.

Here is an example: Josh Boyd, was one of my guinea pigs.... has a big bore triz that was wore with loose piston clearances and he was needing to rebore his engine to the next size piston. Instead of going to 76.5, he went to 76.25 using a .010" bore/hone job and coated his piston for the bore. He took it to the dunes and ran the crap out of it. On the fourth day, he had a intake boot failure (not my boot hehe) He ended up melting a hole though the piston and exhaust side rings. This failure would have seized up the engine and could have broke the rod and it might have went though the cases etc.... We both came to the conclusion, the coating helped keep the engine from seizing up and let it run long enough to blast its way though the top of the piston. Here are some pics, the coating did extremely good though this catastrophe...
168647
168648


I am offering these coatings on my pistons for the triz big bore kits as well as the other kits I build. Contact Greg at http://www.off-roadinnovation.com/ or Tammy @ http://www.cosmicquads.com/. aka Mrs Mosh. They will have some of these pistons in stock in the next few weeks.
If you have any questions call me at 573 721 2251
Corey

[Bryan Raffa]

Josh boyd needed more than that! gold dome coating....LMAO!

[barnett468]

Hello


I have been testing a newer technology for pistons lately. I have had some successful feedback on them and wanted to share this info. I want people to know, this is "NOT" a molly coating, or Teflon or ceramic coating. It is described as an "abradable coating for clearance control, anti-galling, and low friction". Looks like they powder-coat the pistons just below the rings and it kinda reminds me of a hard rubber foam coating...

You can bore your engine to the exact size of the piston


No you can’t, it would instantly seize, you misunderstood their ad and/or video. It would instantly seize.

xxxxx

in some cases you will need to tap in the piston.


Then scotch brite the high spots if needed as shown in video.

Xxxxx

When you break in the engine, the coating wears in until a film of oil is present, or when the stress is released from the coating being too tight.


An oil film is always present otherwise there would be instant damage to the coating and/or cylinder.

Xxxxx

After break-in, your piston will have the perfect piston to wall clearance, thus improving performance, quieter engine, protects the cylinder wall from wearing. etc.


Most of a cylinder walls wear is caused by the” hard” steel piston rings not the “soft” aluminum piston.

xxxxx

They have a few coatings for the piston, first one is armor coating, then a super slick coating over that coating. Also ceramic for the top if you want that.


Is super slick required or can you just use slick cc by itself?

xxxxx

Another cool benefit, you can send in USED pistons to be coated. Just be sure the ring lands are in good shape, and use new rings.... The company doing the coatings are Line to Line coatings in Michigan. I have had good luck so far with there turnaround time and they are nice guys. Here is the website. http://www.line2linecoatings.com.
248 625 3052


How much do they charge for coating a piston with Slick cc only?

Xxxxx

This has become a valuable tool for me to use for the tri-z big bore kits I have sold. Instead of going from 76mm to 76.5mm, you can bore your cylinder 10 thousands over or just enough to clean up the bore. Then have a piston coated for your bore. So instead of 4 bores for your expensive engine kit, you can have like 15. But you cant have a trashed or gouged up cylinder. It has to be cleaned up with the bore and hone.


Slick cc can be applied up to a thickness of .006”, Armor cc can be applied to a thickness of up to .020”. You do not need to “bore” the cylinder you can simply have it “true” honed until it cleans up so you may get more over bores than you might think.

xxxxx

Here is an example: Josh Boyd, was one of my guinea pigs.... has a big bore triz that was wore with loose piston clearances and he was needing to rebore his engine to the next size piston. Instead of going to 76.5, he went to 76.25 using a .010" bore/hone job and coated his piston for the bore.


Which coatings did you use?

Xxxxx

He took it to the dunes and ran the crap out of it. On the fourth day, he had a intake boot failure (not my boot hehe) He ended up melting a hole though the piston and exhaust side rings. This failure would have seized up the engine and could have broke the rod and it might have went though the cases etc.... We both came to the conclusion, the coating helped keep the engine from seizing up and let it run long enough to blast its way though the top of the piston.


That’s an assumption there is no scientific evidence to support your theory, further testing must be done to make this claim.

It’s also possible that it seized due to the excessively tight clearance when the piston suddenly expanded quicker than the coating could wear off. They warn about this potential problem in their “break in” video that I just watched however they used the term “may cause excessive friction” instead of “may cause piston seizure”.

xxxxx

Here are some pics, the coating did extremely good though this catastrophe...


Except for where it’s missing along with the missing metal.

Xxxxx

I am offering these coatings on my pistons for the triz big bore kits as well as the other kits I build.


How much ADDITIONAL will they cost due to the process?

Does this mean that if one wants this process done on a piston other than the ones you offer they can simply contact the company directly as they suggest and pay them directly for the service?

How much does it cost to have them coat a piston?

[Dirtcrasher]

Maybe Rhino Liner would be a good choice :lol:

Looks great on Fabio's truck!

[MTS]

The coating did the job as it was supposed to, took up the slack ran great, perhaps if i was not having sooo much damn fun i would have caught it, but it was a very, very abrubt melt down, pretty much relized it was too late when the 250r i was racing pulled well away. As far as set up and break in i just honed till it just fit, break in was very short, no complaints, its definatly not a gimmick, i think one of my sleds will be getting this treatment before the next season with the used pro lites in it...look forward to not melting the next one :lol :beer

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Maybe I missed something in the OP, but "honing till the piston just fits" doesn't seem a reliable way to set up a cylinder to a piston to me... Not trying to bash or discredit, just thinking out loud...

[MTS]

When i said hone to fit, insted of setting up the boring bar, for a mear .010 or so cut, i straitend out the bore and oversized it with the hone, a proper rigid hone,,not a piece of crap you buy at autozone. the "just fit" was for 0 clearence wich is called for with the coating, or even a -0 TIGHT fit, you have to remember the piston under the coating is still the 76mm the coating on the skirt is another .010-.015 thicker , needs to wear in and seal to the bore for a proper fit. :beer

[TRITecate350]

Maybe I missed something in the OP, but "honing till the piston just fits" doesn't seem a reliable way to set up a cylinder to a piston to me... Not trying to bash or discredit, just thinking out loud...
I never said.... hone till the piston fits....
Let me make it simpler, take your worn out cylinder and bore and hone it to make it true, whether it needs .005" or .008" or .009"..... use a little common since. Then you can tell "Line to Line Coating" what your bore it. Then they can custom coat a piston for you.

Barnett
With all due respect... You need to do more research on this product before you try throwing me under the bus, and maybe in your limited experience, rebuilding a top-end with a bore and piston of the same size would seize up right away. I am assuming you have no experience with this coating because every point you have is wrong and shows your ignorance.
Since you like to mention their videos, maybe take a look at their video #3, at 2:45-3:00. The go into your coated piston having an interference fit, which means.... the coated piston is bigger than your bore. I have been "testing" this....which means...... I have tried it with success.
Next
When you break in the engine, the coating wears in until a film of oil is present, or when the stress is released from the coating being too tight.
An oil film is always present otherwise there would be instant damage to the coating and/or cylinder.

Most people with a brain, can figure out what I am saying. When you have enough clearance for the oil film to create a release from the friction of the coating, the coating will stop wearing in.

After break-in, your piston will have the perfect piston to wall clearance, thus improving performance, quieter engine, protects the cylinder wall from wearing. etc.
Most of a cylinder walls wear is caused by the” hard” steel piston rings not the “soft” aluminum piston.

First off, this coating carries a supply of oil with it, which will help keep the wear to a minimum. Next, the coating helps prevent the piston from rocking, which can cause your sleeve to crack or bridges to break. The coating also helps even out the side pressure of the piston during different phases of the stroke. Many cylinders and sleeve walls wear out where the rings never travel. Just because the piston is softer than the steel bore, doesn't prove anything. Wood is softer than aluminum, yet I can take a block of wood and scratch up a piston with it.

Is super slick required or can you just use slick cc by itself? This would be a great question for the techs at line to line
How much do they charge for coating a piston with Slick cc only? Depends on the thickness and other variables, call line to line.
Which coatings did you use? I use different coatings for different applications. My most popular coatings, are armor and the super slick.

He took it to the dunes and ran the crap out of it. On the fourth day, he had a intake boot failure (not my boot hehe) He ended up melting a hole though the piston and exhaust side rings. This failure would have seized up the engine and could have broke the rod and it might have went though the cases etc.... We both came to the conclusion, the coating helped keep the engine from seizing up and let it run long enough to blast its way though the top of the piston.

That’s an assumption there is no scientific evidence to support your theory, further testing must be done to make this claim. It’s also possible that it seized due to the excessively tight clearance when the piston suddenly expanded quicker than the coating could wear off. They warn about this potential problem in their “break in” video that I just watched however they used the term “may cause excessive friction” instead of “may cause piston seizure”.

This is not my first rodeo.... I can tell you, (scientifically) it takes a large amount to heat to melt a hole though the piston. Most of the time, an engine will lock up before the hole is formed (not always). Most people who are intelligently honest, would say the coating held up well considering the epic piston failure. Now to your assumption....
It’s also possible that it seized due to the excessively tight clearance when the piston suddenly expanded quicker than the coating could wear off. They warn about this potential problem in their “break in” video that I just watched however they used the term “may cause excessive friction” instead of “may cause piston seizure”.

Are you trying to be dumb on purpose? I stated: this was the 4th day of running the crap out of it. It has been broke in. 2nd: It NEVER seized up. Which means the piston didn't expand quicker than the coating could wear in. NOT wear out. There is a difference in that as well. After the melt down, he could rotate the engine over with his finger.... I dont know if I can get any more scientific for you...... But I can break it down even further. The engine started to heat up beyond the melting point of the piston. The top of the piston melted, the sides of the piston(where it was COATED) did not fail. In-fact if we could weld on a new piston top, then engine would once again run....

Except for where it’s missing along with the missing metal.I am offering these coatings on my pistons for the triz big bore kits as well as the other kits I build.

How much ADDITIONAL will they cost due to the process?
They will be about $50 per piston extra which will cover my shipping and coating charges, I am not looking to make money off the coating, but I believe in it enough to improve my products and make my customers happier. I am not putting a gun to your head, you dont have to buy it from me or even coat your pistons.

Does this mean that if one wants this process done on a piston other than the ones you offer they can simply contact the company directly as they suggest and pay them directly for the service?
I am sure you will want to contact and deal directly with them. I am not making money on the pistons, so I dont care. I am posting this info for you....not me.
How much does it cost to have them coat a piston? I think, regular retail is like $35 on a std coating (armor and slick)

[zmpolaristech]

I will have have one of these coated pistons in my big bore this week....it is a used 76.5mm piston (taken out of my bike after almost 2 seasons), coated to fit my "squared-up" 76.65mm bore. Most of you know how well my Dream-Z runs, and how hard I ride it. I will GLADLY post my results of this new venture, as I am convinced its better than $300 in a new piston and a bore job. If not, what the hell, it still only cost pennies compared to a new top-end.

[TRITecate350]

Sorry Red Rider, didnt realize you were taking to mts, also I didnt mean to sound so harsh with the common sense thing.... I just feel like I was being attacked, course I was, but not by you.

[KASEY]

I will have have one of these coated pistons in my big bore this week....it is a used 76.5mm piston (taken out of my bike after almost 2 seasons), coated to fit my "squared-up" 76.65mm bore. Most of you know how well my Dream-Z runs, and how hard I ride it. I will GLADLY post my results of this new venture, as I am convinced its better than $300 in a new piston and a bore job. If not, what the hell, it still only cost pennies compared to a new top-end.

i guess the only problem i see here is exprcting to get long life out of an already USED piston,, all it takes is a unseen hairline crack so for that reason i would never invest any money and time in a used piston,, especially if you ride as hard as you say.... the coating sounds interesting though..

[Dirtcrasher]

I would have thought at least SOME clearance would be desired but now that you explained it, it makes sense to me.

I imagine there is a small break in time??

Sounds like real good stuff! :D

Our local Honda dealer uses a "Power Hone" which I wasn't comfortable with. I said you guys can take off .060 without a Sunen boring machine and just a "power hone"? When all was said and done I measured it up and it was fine. Maybe .003 thousandths clearance...........

[TRITecate350]

A good 4 bar hone and a good operator, can hone a cylinder that is true. A little egg shape can be taken out. But if your bore has any taper, you will need to bore with a boring bar. The break in procedure is normal with the coating.

[barnett468]

Hello tritecate350



WOW, You appear to me to be extremely defensive, assumptive and grossly misinformed. I also personally think that your first strike, unprovoked, sarcastic and condescending comments designed to incite and enrage me lack creativity and are therefore boring for me to read. My personal opinion is that the defensiveness I perceive you to have regarding this issue and negative comments you are making towards me show a serious lack of professionalism and may subsequently cost you a wider audience than you might have otherwise had and undermines your credibility.

Everyone can see by my first comment below which I pasted immediately from my ORIGINAL post, that I was CLEARLY stating that you can probably get more bores out your cylinder than you realize. I don’t see how you or anyone can POSSIBLY perceive this as trying to “throw you under the buss” as you suggest I am trying to do, however you seemed to have conveniently left this comment out of your attempted berating of me as evidenced by your comments pasted below my initial one.

Xxxxx

This has become a valuable tool for me to use for the tri-z big bore kits I have sold. Instead of going from 76mm to 76.5mm, you can bore your cylinder 10 thousands over or just enough to clean up the bore. Then have a piston coated for your bore. So instead of 4 bores for your expensive engine kit, you can have like 15. But you cant have a trashed or gouged up cylinder. It has to be cleaned up with the bore and hone.


Slick cc can be applied up to a thickness of .006”, Armor cc can be applied to a thickness of up to .020”. You do not need to “bore” the cylinder you can simply have it “true” honed until it cleans up so you may get more over bores than you might think.

Xxxxx

Barnett
With all due respect... You need to do more research on this product before you try throwing me under the bus,
If any reasonable, intelligent person reads my comments they can clearly see that I was NOT throwing you under the buss whatsoever. I was simply correcting obvious errors in your comments with facts, questioning your assumptions with logic etc, and posting direct quotes from the videos and home page for this company. It is my opinion that you are overly defensive.
You also forgot to beat up Bryan Raffa in your rampage also but I see you didn’t miss Ride-Red 250r whose questions seemed valid, straight forward, and innocuous to me.


You have no idea what I know about this and/or similar products or how many years I might or might not have known about them and whether I and/or any of my friends have used any of them.

xxxxx

and maybe in your limited experience,


OK expert please explain CLEARLY to everyone exactly how you know just what level of experience I have regarding anything. This is obviously another one of you MANY ASSUMPTIONS..

Xxxxx

rebuilding a top-end with a bore and piston of the same size would seize up right away.


Yes this is EXACTLY what I said so I’m glad you agree with me and that you learned something you apparently didn’t know before based on your comment pasted below from your original post.

“You can bore your engine to the exact size of the piston and in some cases you will need to tap in the piston.”

xxxxx

I am assuming you have no experience with this coating


I’ve learned that making assumptions like all the ones you have made in this and you original post are an “ignorant” thing to do [to use your own word pasted further below],but that’s just what “ignorant” people do.

xxxxx

every point you have is wrong


You have not disproven a single one of them and never will because you can’t . Your assumptions are not scientific evidence. Many of my comments are self evident and some others are supported the line to lines videos and home site but you wouldn't know the latter since it appears you never listened to the videos.

xxxxx

and shows your ignorance.


See second comment above.

xxxxx

Since you like to mention their videos, maybe take a look at their video #3, at 2:45-3:00. The go into your coated piston having an interference fit, which means.... the coated piston is bigger than your bore.


I don’t need to another look to know what they said. If I recall correctly this is the same video that shows him sliding two different pistons into a twin cylinder watercraft cylinder and the second piston is the one that he says is coated oversize and needs to have the high spots sanded down with quote “scotch brite”. I think it is also the same video where he shows their recommended break in/heat cycle chart and then WARNS about quote “excessive friction”. My comments from my previous post are pasted below.

“It’s also possible that it seized due to the excessively tight clearance when the piston suddenly expanded quicker than the coating could wear off. They warn about this potential problem in their “break in” video that I just watched however they used the term “may cause excessive friction” instead of “may cause piston seizure”.”

You might want to turn up the VOLUME on your tv when you watch these things. It’s amazing what one can learn by actually listening as well as watching, you should try it sometime.

xxxxx

I have been "testing" this....which means...... I have tried it with success.


Great this is one good way to test it.

xxxxx

When you break in the engine, the coating wears in until a film of oil is present, or when the stress is released from the coating being too tight. An oil film is always present otherwise there would be instant damage to the coating and/or cylinder.

Most people with a brain, can figure out what I am saying. When you have enough clearance for the oil film to create a release from the friction of the coating, the coating will stop wearing in.


It is my opinion that anyone with a “brain” [to use your word], would have made that statement more accurately the first time as you did the second time if they knew what they were talking about in the first place instead realizing that they were wrong after someone pointed it out to them and then possibly doing some research so they can rephrase it and make it sound like they knew what they were talking about all along just like it looks to me that you have done with your many new updated comments.

xxxxx

After break-in, your piston will have the perfect piston to wall clearance, thus improving performance, quieter engine, protects the cylinder wall from wearing. etc.
Most of a cylinder walls wear is caused by the” hard” steel piston rings not the “soft” aluminum piston.

First off, this coating carries a supply of oil with it, which will help keep the wear to a minimum.


This is not what you said in your original post and is still yet ANOTHER one of your many comment corrections.

Xxxxx

the coating helps prevent the piston from rocking, which can cause your sleeve to crack or bridges to break.


Out of the over 500 2 and 4 stroke cylinders I have dealt with in my limited experience, I personally have never seen a crack or broken bridge in any of them including any of the factory works MX cylinders.

xxxxx

The coating also helps even out the side pressure of the piston during different phases of the stroke. Many cylinders and sleeve walls wear out where the rings never travel.


See my previous comments regarding this issue.

xxxxx

Just because the piston is softer than the steel bore, doesn't prove anything.


WOW I can’t even think of a reply to that.

xxxxx

Wood is softer than aluminum, yet I can take a block of wood and scratch up a piston with it.


OK, Cool, good to know, so when you invent the first wooden engine cylinder let us know.

xxxxx


Is super slick required or can you just use slick cc by itself?

This would be a great question for the techs at line to line


You seem to have a “factual” answer for everything else so why don’t you have an answer for this one?

In my opinion this is one of the most accurate and “factual” answers you have given yet and that you probably should have simply referred people to the video in the the first place instead of making inaccurate statements and supplying incomplete, comments regarding the product.

xxxxx

How much do they charge for coating a piston with Slick cc only? Depends on the thickness and other variables, call line to line.


Ok.

Xxx

Which coatings did you use?

I use different coatings for different applications. My most popular coatings, are armor and the super slick.


Since you were referring to a particular person in your original post that you used as your “guinea pig” as you called him, I thought that it might be reasonable to guess that anyone with a “brain” [to use your word again] would realize his piston was the one I was specifically referring to and give me a specific answer to my question.

xxxxx

I use different coatings for different applications. My most popular coatings, are armor and the super slick.

He took it to the dunes and ran the crap out of it. On the fourth day, he had a intake boot failure (not my boot hehe) He ended up melting a hole though the piston and exhaust side rings. This failure would have seized up the engine and could have broke the rod and it might have went though the cases etc.... We both came to the conclusion, the coating helped keep the engine from seizing up and let it run long enough to blast its way though the top of the piston.

That’s an assumption there is no scientific evidence to support your theory, further testing must be done to make this claim. It’s also possible that it seized due to the excessively tight clearance when the piston suddenly expanded quicker than the coating could wear off. They warn about this potential problem in their “break in” video that I just watched however they used the term “may cause excessive friction” instead of “may cause piston seizure”.

This is not my first rodeo.... I can tell you, (scientifically) it takes a large amount to heat to melt a hole though the piston. Most of the time, an engine will lock up before the hole is formed (not always). Most people who are intelligently honest, would say the coating held up well considering the epic piston failure. Now to your assumption....

“It’s also possible that it seized due to the excessively tight clearance when the piston suddenly expanded quicker than the coating could wear off. They warn about this potential problem in their “break in” video that I just watched however they used the term “may cause excessive friction” instead of “may cause piston seizure”.”


My comment above that you pasted from my original post is not an ASSUMPTION as any reasonable, intelligent person can CLEARLY see, which is supported by the that FACT that this is the exact inference they make in their video as I mentioned in a comment further above.

Once again I suggest you either turn up the volume on your tv and actually listen to what they are saying or have someone that understands the physics better than you apparently do, watch AND listen to the video and have them explain it to you in “laymans” language. You can look up this word as well as the word inference for an explanation of their meaning on the internet if you need.

I suggest you call line to line coatings and tell them they are assuming and that their assumptions are wrong, not me. Perhaps an engineering and physics class may be of benefit to you also.

xxxxx

Are you trying to be dumb on purpose? I stated: this was the 4th day of running the crap out of it. It has been broke in. 2nd: It NEVER seized up. Which means the piston didn't expand quicker than the coating could wear in. NOT wear out. There is a difference in that as well. After the melt down, he could rotate the engine over with his finger.... I dont know if I can get any more scientific for you...... But I can break it down even further. The engine started to heat up beyond the melting point of the piston. The top of the piston melted, the sides of the piston(where it was COATED) did not fail. In-fact if we could weld on a new piston top, then engine would once again run....Except for where it’s missing along with the missing metal.


Irregardless of his cylinder condition the piston is what is in question here however why don't you post a CLEAR photo of his miraculously TOTALLY unharmed bore before it gets honed out for all to see to support your CLAIM?

PISTON HOLE - Well you must have posted a photo of the wrong piston then because the one in the photo appears to have no hole in the top [hard to see the top though] but clearly has a hole BETWEEN the piston rings so unless they have some new high tech piston design I think the rings are actually located on the SIDE of the piston but again I probably am wrong and therefore “dumb” at least regarding this issue anyway.

UNHARMED PISTON SIDES/COATING – Their video clearly shows coating from the bottom of the piston skirt to the bottom of the lower ring land. Your photo CLEARLY shows damage to the SIDE of the piston BELOW the bottom of the lower ring land. There are calculators available online which are free so you can “do the math” since it is OBVIOUS by your statement that you have not yet.


Hope this information helps

[barnett468]

A good 4 bar hone and a good operator, can hone a cylinder that is true. A little egg shape can be taken out. But if your bore has any taper, you will need to bore with a boring bar. The break in procedure is normal with the coating.


Hello again tritecate350



A good 4 bar hone and a good operator, can hone a cylinder that is true. A little egg shape can be taken out.


Congratulations you got this one right, please enjoy the free set of steak knives you will be receiving in the mail soon as your prize.

xxxxx

if your bore has any taper, you will need to bore with a boring bar.


Absolutely positively WRONG and again yet another example of your inexperience and lack of understanding of the boring/honing process. I have pasted a video below which shows a PROFESSIONAL engine builder actually REMOVING TAPER FROM A CYLINDER and CLEARLY EXPLAINING how it is done while he is SHOWING how it is done. Although this process is being done on an automotive cylinder, the process is identical for a motorcycle or compressor cylinder etc.

Just because you may have been told this by some cylinder boring “expert” , it does NOT make it true does it?

Below is the link to the INFORMATIVE boring and honing video I referred to for your enjoyment and EDUCATION. Advance video to 15 minutes exactly for a visual and audio explanation of the cylinder taper removing process. I can supply several others if requested.

http://vimeo.com/65266614

xxxxx

The break in procedure is normal with the coating.


WOW that’s another one you got right, you’re ALMOST on a roll now, keep up the quality research and you may get “somewhere” yet someday. Unfortunately we can only offer 1 set of steak knives per winning contestant, however I am authorized to offer you a beautifully embroidered, paper decorative "Doily" for your table top, would you like one of those?


Hope this information helps

[barnett468]

Hello tritecate350

I just realized that perhaps if you see someone honing a KAWASAKI MOTORCYCLE cylinder, and checking it in the top and bottom of the cylinder with a bore gauge to determine if it has any taper for which the hone operator would need to use the “phasing” [taper removing] option on his honing machine to remove, you might just start to believe it is not only possible to do but even common to do on MOTORCYCLE cylinders as well as the automotive engine shown in the video I provided in my previous post.

Even though according to your statements in post #8 I am quote,”dumb”, “ignorant” because I “show my ignorance”, “inexperienced”, “have limited experience”, “have no experience”, suggest that I “don’t have a "brain” and that you can tell me something quote (scientifically) [did you have to look that big word up to see how to spell it?], I’m going to go WAY out on a limb here and “guess” that the taper removing process CLEARLY shown in the video I pasted the link to in my last post not only works on a 1971 455 Pontiac engine as proven by the honing video I provided in a my previous post and a Kawasaki motorcycle cylinder [as suggested by the top and bottom cylinder measurements made by the hone operator in the video], but that it just might work in different years, makes, models and types of cylinders also, but again, I could be wrong.

I did actually see one for a honing video for a water cooled Honda 2 stroke cylinder also which I would be more than happy to post for you also if you like.


SEE TIME 2:23 AND 2:45 FOR BORE TAPER CHECK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuzBQlYFgXo&feature=endscreen&NR=1


PS

I guess Kasey is the next one on your berating list now. God forsake anyone that has a correction, or logical, reasonable comment and/or suggestion regarding your claims/statements etc or those made by the mfg of this product.

[Mosh]

For the love of all internet forums Barnett...Please, Please, please, use the friggin quote button. Trying to read your 1 mile long post filled with small arrows makes my brain hurt and is harder than translating ancient Egypt symbols..The bottom right of every post there is a reply quote button. Try it. I have to say I doubt anyone even tries to read your text it is so long, and confusing..



It is my opinion that you are overly defensive.If any reasonable, intelligent person reads my comments they can clearly see that I was NOT throwing you under the buss whatsoever. I was simply correcting obvious errors in your comments with facts, questioning your assumptions with logic etc, and posting direct quotes from the videos and home page for this company.
You also forgot to beat up Bryan Raffa in your rampage also but I see you didn’t miss Ride-Red 250r whose questions seemed valid, straight forward, and innocuous to me.

There are reasons for that..You may find in your stay here, that umbrellas shield some from the rain, while others get drenched..It may not be fair, but it happens.

Sprock has done tons of stuff for this forum. Even if they have not all been perfect, he has put his neck out there, been attacked and ridiculed for reasons of his own doing, and reasons out of his control. After a person does so much, gives so much, and gets attacked by people repeatedly over and over again, you get defensive.
You, came on here claiming to be a Kawasaki engineer from the old days, but have never provided any PROOF to any of us. Nor have you sustained a 10th of berating that Sprock has.( And there is way more evidence of his accomplishments and even failures on here than anything you have shown us) To me, until I see different, you are just the current record holder of long, unreadable, drawn out posts. No offense is meant to you and I do feel you have some decent things to say..But who the hell can sift it out of 66,000 lines of text? IF you want to continue to hash it out I won't stop you..But please use some post structure we can all read...In a timely manner if you would..:p

[KASEY]

WHAT HE SAID!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^ I NEVER EVEN READ THOSE NOVELS .. sometimes less is really more,, short and sweet to the point,,,

[barnett468]

Hello MOSH


I have at least a vague idea of the support you and your mom have from at least some if not most of the members here and have no wish to debate or ____you off. I personally believe that if one puts aside friendships and reads my original and “rebuttal” posts here one can easily see that I had no intention of “attacking” tritecate350 whatsoever and I apologize to him if my “matter of fact tone” in my original post may have been misinterpreted that way by him however it is my opinion that either way my comments did not warrant nor justify his attempted berating of me.

Xxxxx

“For the love of all internet forums Barnett...Please, Please, please, use the friggin quote button.”


It just bunches everything up in one paragraph then if I reply in one paragraph I personally think some of the context can get lost besides it’s easier for me at least to do it this way so I can keep track and reply/respond to each comment I choose to.

xxxxx

“Trying to read your 1 mile long post filled with small arrows makes my brain hurt and is harder than translating ancient Egypt symbols.” “The bottom right of every post there is a reply quote button. Try it.”


I actually use it often as I’m guessing you have seen before and I am truly not trying to be sarcastic to you when I say this [and I already see the “dislike” posts coming which I could care less about] but I am not forcing ANYONE to read my posts, one does that by choice. I do appreciate the time that some like yourself take to read my posts irregardless of what you and/or others think of their content and whether you amd/or they agree with their content or like them or not.

xxxxx

“I have to say I doubt anyone even tries to read your text it is so long, and confusing.”


It’s not as important to me if others read them or not as long as the original poster they are meant for can understand and benefit in at least some small way from them. Most ALL comments made by original posters vas well as ALL the PM’s I have received from original posters show me that for the most part my posts are understood and appreciated. All the original posters comments are there in their original posts supporting this statement for ANYONE that would like to search for and read them. You can start with a recent topic by grunter.

xxxxx

“Quote Originally Posted by barnett468 View Post
It is my opinion that you are overly defensive.”

“You also forgot to beat up Bryan Raffa in your rampage also but I see you didn’t miss Ride-Red 250r whose questions seemed valid, straight forward, and innocuous to me.”

“There are reasons for that..You may find in your stay here, that umbrellas shield some from the rain, while others get drenched..You may also find that some members here are perfectly able to bombard some of the moderating team with a barrage of F BOMBS and threats, and even get away with it while moderators are restrained from doing their job.”


Aside from Billy Golightly [I guess he is a moderator at the least and maybe a supervisor and or originator of the site etc], I don’t really know who the moderators are so I don’t know who is berating who, lol.

Xxxxx

“You will find that Sprock has done tons of stuff for this forum. Even if they have all been perfect, or not, he has put his neck out there, been attacked and ridiculed for reasons of his own doing, and reasons out of his control. After a person does so much, gives so much, and gets attacked by people repeatedly over and over again, you get defensive.”


I have no idea who “Sprock” is. My comments were a response to being attacked by tritecate350 with all the words and terms posted as quotes in my previous comment etc. I made no such comments or inferences towards him in my original post. I also don’t make first strike sarcastic remarks towards any members like 4 or 5 members here commonly fo. You know exactly what I mean and you, I and they know who I am referring to. You’ll likely see one of them post here replying to this and make a “dislike” post.

xxxxx

“You, came on here claiming to be a Kawasaki engineer from the old days, but have never provided any PROOF to any of us.”


Yeah, I thought it might be fun to join and didn’t expect the immediate unfounded attack’s I received by some, nice group you have here.

People that need to know who I am do and who I am should be irrelevant to most others. I personally think there are WAY bigger things in this world to worry about besides “who I am”.

I have nothing to gain by making a false claim like that so I don’t understand the point of your comment besides I didn’t know it was a requirement for ANYONE to prove who they are here. Plus I don’t care in the least whether people believe me or not. I have no ego to satisfy and no point to prove in this regard.

For all anyone knows I don’t even really exist and am simply a computer program much like the Deep Blue computer program designed by IBM to play chess at the highest level which was subsequently pitted against ex World Chess Champion Garry Kaspsrov [although I’m definitely not anywhere near as good at chess as that program is].

I also never would have even been hired by Kwaasaki if I disguised opinions as facts and/or made inaccurate claims/statements etc. I was just 1 of over around 200 applicants for the job and the interview process took around 4 weeks from start to finish and included communication, technical report writing, interpersonal relationship, engineering, fabrication, mechanical, and high skill level riding and diagnostic skills etc.


DEEP BLUE IBM CHESS COMPUTER

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_(chess_computer)

xxxxx

“Nor have you sustained a 10th of berating that Sprock has.”


Why should I or even he?

xxxxx

“( And there is way more evidence of his accomplishments and even failures on here than anything you have shown us)”

See my comments above.

xxxxx

“To me, until I see different, you are just the current record holder of long, unreadable, drawn out posts.”


Well hey, that’s one of the best compliments I have gotten recently from a non original poster, at least I seem to be some sort of “record holder” here and better at, at least one thing here than anyone else is.

See additional comments above.

Xxxxx

“No offense is meant to you”


Doesn’t exactly sound that way to me.

Xxxxx

“I do feel you have some decent things to say.”


Thanks that’s nice to hear, contrary to some peoples belief I am actually at least part human.

xxxxx

“But who the hell can sift it out of 66,000 lines of text?”


Again as long as the original poster gets some benefit that’s all I really care about.

Xxxxx

“IF you want to continue to hash it out I won't stop you.”


First of all I have no intention of “hashing it out” with ANYONE. I prefer to make friends rather than enemies but that choice is not always up to me. Second, if you read my posts carefully you may see that I never argue, I never have in my life because I see no point in it. Opinions are NOT debatable simply because they are OPINIONS. Facts are also not debatable because they are simply FACTS. The problem ALWAYS occurs when one poses OPINIONS DISGUISED AS FACTS or poses something that one may understandably believe to be a FACT because someone who is SUPPOSED to be an expert told them “it is so”. Tritecate350’s statement saying quote “A good 4 bar hone and a good operator, can hone a cylinder that is true. A little egg shape can be taken out. But if your bore has any taper, you will need to bore with a boring bar. The break in procedure is normal with the coating.” is a perfect example of a grossly inaccurate statement which I have PROVEN wrong with video evidence from PROFESSIONALS. My opinion is that anyone that cares to still believe tritecate350’s statement regarding this issue after seeing the evidence I provided has substantially less than average intelligence.

Am I to assume by your comment that you are a moderator, great that’s just what I need? Irregardless of that, my opinion is my opinion and facts are facts [not subjective opinions disguised as facts] so if someone doesn’t like me for either, the last time I looked we were still in America and and people are still free [sort of] to form and express their own opinions.

Xxxxx

“But please use some post structure we can all read...In a timely manner if you would.”


It’s not that I’m trying to be defiant or resistant to your request but unfortunately for you at least this is the best overall way I know of on how to make some posts. If you are suggesting that I use a > symbol to show that a particular phrase is a quote from another than I suppose I might try that if you really think it is a universal sign that others will understand and benefit from.

Xxxxx


Regards

[Mosh]

Hello MOSH


I have at least a vague idea of the support you and your mom have from at least some if not most of the members here and have no wish to debate or ____you off.

I can assure you with utmost certainty, I did not marry my mother...

"Not for reprint"