1985 Honda 200 m atc - no compression

[prairie redneck]

Hey all. New here. Just bought a 1985 atc 200m for the boy on the weekend. Used it for one full, hard day. Snow, water, mud, lots of water. On way home, bike kept dying. Had a bad squeak when fired up. Picked it up with truck. Turns over now. Seems like next to no compression. Has spark but plug not even getting wet. Any help appreciated.

[dougspcs]

Sorry Redneck, too man variables..

You are gonna have to dig into this and get us some basic info.

You can't just throw it at us and ask us what's wrong with your trike.

Did it run low on oil? Compression check results?

Get us some info and we can help..too many new members jump off their trikes and run into the house and go online to ask before checking anything.

Right now the ball is in your court!!

[prairie redneck]

Sorry about that. Just thought someone might have a quick point in the right direction. I am going to start removing the motor today. Oil was and is and is good in machine. Compression tester I borrowed does not have right adapter to check compression, but I can hold my thumb over the plug hole while it is turning over easily. Pulls over extremely easy with rope.(No resistance) Has good spark. Plug is not fouled. No apparent oil leaks, but if I recall, it was blowing smoke the last time it fired up.

[shortline10]

My crystal ball is telling me its time for a top end rebuild .

[dougspcs]

Yup, sounds like your gum ball machine is broken!!

Unfortunately you can't get the top end off with the motor in the bike like with the 200/225 Yamaha..I always like that about them.

Not feeling any compression with your thumb over the hole isn't a great start!!

Out on the bench and pop it open..grab some 411 and maybe some pics

My prediction is you'll need some parts..hopefully not your flux capacitor like 'kwheeler'..:w00t:

We'll help anyway we can..good luck.

[kb0nly]

Make sure its not a stuck decompression lever, right side front corner of the head, lift it up and make sure it drops when you pull the recoil, if not theres your problem. Also remove the valve adjustment caps, pull it over and see if the intake valve is moving, you said plug isn't getting wet, i have had two cases where the adjuster on the rocker came loose, the 10mm nut backed off and fell into the head by the valvespring, now the clearance starts to open up and you slowly loose operation of the valve. However this would not cause a loss of compression, but it would cause a loss of intake/fuel getting into the cylinder.

Sounds like you might have a stuck open exhaust valve, which is why i suggested the decomp lever, so check that out first. If it was smoking a bit it might just be time to toss it on the bench, get a top end gasket kit, timing chain and guides and check the bore, maybe if your lucky a hone and new rings, otherwise consider boring it out as well. Fix it right and it will outlast the kids... LOL

[prairie redneck]

Thanks guys. Got motor pulled yesterday. Drained oil and chunks of metal in filter. Motor is on bench but I am stuck in appointments for next two days. Will get some pics when I crack her open.

[barnett468]

Hello

Spray carb cleaner in intake while it is apart and see if valve weeps, do same to exhaust. Check cam it may have gone flat which would cause steel shavings not aluminum [piston] shavings but since it smoked it does sound like it at least needs a ring job.

Good suggestion by kb on the compression release also.

Hopefully the following will help you some.


OEM SERVICE MANUAL

http://www.kb0nly.info/ATC/index.php?dir=ATC200M%2F


OEM NOS PARTS FOR SALE OEM FICHE SHOWING OVERSIZE PISTON AND RINGS AVAILABLE ITEMS 2-4

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc200m-1985-usa_model7179/partslist/E++15.html#row13101958671


WIESCO OVERPRICED FORGED PISTONS

http://www.wiseco.com/ProductSearch.aspx

[D-dub]

Welcome to the site!, Where in Saskatchewan are you from?

[prairie redneck]

Well guys I finally got a chance to start on this motor.
Camshaft is out and appears???? to be ok.
My micrometer is to small to measure the lobes.
Cylinder head cover is off and I haven't noticed anything unusual.
I have never had one of these apart before, so not exactly sure what to be looking for.
Next step is cylinder head removal I guess??
Attached pic of camshaft.

169270

[kb0nly]

That cam is certainly not the worst i have seen, looks like some wear on the journals but not horribly so.

You mentioned chunks of metal in the oil, did you try a magnet on them to see if they were steel? If they are aluminum i would guess the timing chain is sloppy loose and wearing some metal out of the timing chain galley, i have seen them take off a couple pieces especially at the bottom just above the crank sprocket there is a bump out in the casting between the two sides of the chain, the chain gets slack and it wears against that spot and you get chunks of aluminum in the oil.

I would keep tearing it down, pull the head, inspect the bore and piston/rings, and look for the source of the metal. Inspect the valves good!

[prairie redneck]

Well...Got the cylinder head off. Filings are aluminum. Chunk missing on edge of piston. Can't seem to attach pics. Too big.

[kb0nly]

Dang, time for a new top end!

You might have to resize the pictures. A good free image editing program i use all the time is irfanview its a freebie, has a quick resize on the menu, and best of all did i mention its free? LOL

[prairie redneck]

Thanks man.
Think I got them this time. Going to pull the piston next. What do you estimate the cost of this little project??


169591169592

[barnett468]

Hello


Here’s .050” OEM piston and rings in case you need this size and don’t find anything cheaper. Try partzilla.com also.


OEM item 3 .050” piston 13103-958-670

http://www.xtremeusa.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=HOM#/Honda/ATC200M_A_(85)_ALL-TERRAIN_VEHICLE_(ATV)%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_JH3TB054-FK400001/CRANKSHAFT_%2b_PISTON/ATC200M-85-JPN-A/2Y14VM3EE14VM3E15A


OEM item 2 .050” rings

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc200m-1985-usa_model7179/partslist/E++15.html#results


Hope this info helps

[dougspcs]

Thanks man.
Think I got them this time. Going to pull the piston next. What do you estimate the cost of this little project??


169591169592

A bit early to talk $$$, you haven't finished your damage recon..get that finished and make of a detailed list of the parts you'll need.

There'll be more..you haven't found the really bad stuff yet!

[prairie redneck]

Having trouble removing the piston pin. Any suggestions???
Also, is it normal to have a little side play in your in your piston?

Thanks.

[prairie redneck]

Having trouble removing the piston pin. Clips are off each side. Moves back and forth about 1/4". Any pointers??? Just didn't want to force it too much. Also, how much side play should there be in the piston?

[shortline10]

Up and down play their should be none , side to side is ok . Tap the pin out it shouldn't take much effort .

[kb0nly]

If that pin don't come right out with little force tap it out but be careful not to scratch up the inside of the rod end with whatever you use to punch it, it shouldn't take much effort.

My cost estimate... $150-$200 depending on the condition of the cylinder, if you can get by with just a hone and a stock piston and rings and a top end gasket kit your more on the $100-$150 range, if the bore is scored up from the piston coming apart your going to have to bore and hone, either way you need a new piston and rings so the cost stays the same as far as gaskets and parts, its just whether or not you need a shop to do a bore and hone on it.

Also don't forget to rebuild the head, at least clean it and remove all the carbon buildup from it and the exhaust port, remove the valves and clean up the seats and lap them in if they measure up ok, main thing is replace those damn valve stem seals while you have it this far down, cause otherwise you will be doing it again later when they start leaking!! LOL

[dougspcs]

I've had a couple that were pretty stuck before..

I use a couple small pieces of wood between the piston and the jug pins to steady and support.

Then a 3/8 socket extension piece as a punch..a few taps with a hammer. At this point you aren't too concerned about your piston and pin, they're already casualties..you just don't want to bend or damage your connecting rod..

[prairie redneck]

Got it!! Definitely needed the hammer. It all looks to be in very rough shape. The piston pin is even bad in the middle.

169646169647169648

[my1423]

From the look of the pin, you may need a new rod.
Check it for missing chunks.
Maybe able to hone it smooth, but it may make it out of tolerance.

Did you run out of oil? Looks like it. Damage along with the cam.
Might also want to pull the right case and check the oil singer and oil pump for damage.

[ps2fixer]

Ouch that looks like pretty major damage there, my guess would be a bore is in order. I agree with my1423, atlast pull the side cover off for the oil pump pickup and do some cleaning up.

[my1423]

If you do fix this engine and want to buy a piston kit ect, Rigid hone the cylinder prior to having it boarded or ordering a piston.
This will remove the chunks and make sure there are no deep gouges cracks in the sleeve.
Do not want to buy a piston then find out the sleeve is to far gone and you need to buy the next size up piston.
Probably ok but better safe then sorry.

If you want a little more power and want to save a few bucks get an xr200 kit.
10-1 compression, more power, harder to pull start. Stock 8-1
Stock size 65.5 Your bore should be 65.0 mm
Ebay has wiseco top end kits for 100$
Stock xr200 wiseco kit part number 4156M06550 next up 4156M06600 then 650 700

While you are at it get a new timing chain. I always change the chain when doing a piston. 20$ and prevents certain issues
Check the valves and guides. Local shop can give a free estimate on the head and tell if anything is needed.
Have them also check the cam and bearing sleeve. Might have to emry cloth the journal a bit.

The rod might clean up with emry as well.
Get it miced

[tri again]

Sorry about that.
I don't see much of an indicator for the 'aluminum filings' you describe so far.

I'd be seriously tempted to pull side covers and clean real good but also
look for the source, as mentioned.

[prairie redneck]

It was not out of oil, but got VERY warm. I believe the aluminum would have come from the piston. Either way, it's a major. Thanks for everything so far. Just looking for a shop now to take it to.