Interesting aluminum repair product, anyone ever use Alumaloy?

[ps2fixer]

I'm not sure how well this stuff works, but I bought some to try it if/when I need it. The pop can example is pretty neat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ5sD9hQTyw

Video didn't allow embedding :(

[barnett468]

Hello ps2fixer



I have used it a few times on a/c condensers. It is liquid over an extremely narrow range which made it very difficult to use. The guy filling the hole in the soda can has been doing it a long time.


It has been around a long time and is available at any welding supply store.


Your video link didn't work for me so I posted one that should.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ5sD9hQTyw

[ps2fixer]

That is interesting, so what happens if you over heat it, but not enough to melt the aluminum? I have an engine with an exhaust stud that was drilled out overly huge, so I'm hoping to save the head by filling it in with this stuff and redrill and tap it. Besides that, on their site they claim it works on cast aluminum too, so side cover repairs etc would be a nice option since welding them don't normally turn out very well.

[kb0nly]

It works but here is a tip, clean clean clean the surfaces your trying to fix or bond, and when you think its clean enough clean some more!! Seriously, i had mixed results with it, but i found that if i scrubbed the area clean then used some acetone to clean and degrease the area further then it would stick. It works ok for the most part, i wouldn't trust it for some really structural items but for fixing things like a crack in an aluminum case or side cover then yes. I had good luck crack fixing by using a dremel tool to make a V shaped fillet along the crack, then clean and degrease and fill with alumaloy and then file smooth and buff it with a scrotchbrite pad, you can just about make it disappear.

The best use i found for it? Fixing stripped holes out. I take a small tubing brush and clean the hole out best i can, use a little compressed air to blow it out and then some acetone on a clean brush and again blow out with the air. Then just fill the hole up and let it cool, drill and tap new threads, and your good to go.

[atc300r]

Would this work for center case repair.I have a set of liquid r ceter cases that a broken piston skirt broke out .The hole is between the crank area and the trans. about the size of a dime.On the left case half edge.

[barnett468]

Would this work for center case repair.I have a set of liquid r ceter cases that a broken piston skirt broke out .The hole is between the crank area and the trans. about the size of a dime.On the left case half edge.

Hello atc300r



It is like solder, solder sticks to the part but it does not melt the part and become one with it. It is not as hard as the case.


The potential problem you have is because it is on a sealing edge that will see pressure it may or may not crack or leak.


My guess is that it will not crack or break if properly applied but may leak at the mating edge. I would practice a lot before trying it then apply a heavy layer on the outside then leave that area thick for structural integrity then seal case with Yamabond after smoothing everything.


If I could get another case for $100.00, I would do that instead.

[barnett468]

Hello ps2fixer



That is interesting, so what happens if you over heat it, but not enough to melt the aluminum?

Sorry, I don’t understand your question but maybe this will help. Most aluminum including 6061 and your engine cases melt around 1220 degrees. The Alumalloy melts at 728 degrees. The temperature of a propane, butane or propane/butane combo torch is around 1900 degrees. Bottom line is that you can turn the item you are trying to repair into a piece of molten metal if you are not careful.






I have an engine with an exhaust stud that was drilled out overly huge, so I'm hoping to save the head by filling it in with this stuff and redrill and tap it.

Why don’t you just helicoil or timesert it?

It is soft and therefore should not be used in bolt/stud holes where high torque applications are needed.






Besides that, on their site they claim it works on cast aluminum too, so side cover repairs etc would be a nice option since welding them don't normally turn out very well.

It works on ALL aluminum.

[kb0nly]

That is interesting, so what happens if you over heat it, but not enough to melt the aluminum? I have an engine with an exhaust stud that was drilled out overly huge, so I'm hoping to save the head by filling it in with this stuff and redrill and tap it. Besides that, on their site they claim it works on cast aluminum too, so side cover repairs etc would be a nice option since welding them don't normally turn out very well.

I think it woudl work on the exhaust stud hole, just don't overtorque it. I looked at the specs of the alumaloy and it shows the strength in PSI, would be a stronger than the surrounding cast aluminum. Lots better than a helicoil or something like that, for a helicoil you have to drill the hole even bigger and i have had them pull out when the head heats up and the aluminum expands. Since the alumaloy is an aluminum alloy it should expand and contract in unison with the cast aluminum and not loose its hold.

[ps2fixer]

Hello ps2fixer
Sorry, I don’t understand your question but maybe this will help. Most aluminum including 6061 and your engine cases melt around 1220 degrees. The Alumalloy melts at 728 degrees. The temperature of a propane, butane or propane/butane combo torch is around 1900 degrees. Bottom line is that you can turn the item you are trying to repair into a piece of molten metal if you are not careful.



Why don’t you just helicoil or timesert it?

It is soft and therefore should not be used in bolt/stud holes where high torque applications are needed.


It works on ALL aluminum.

That is basically exactly what I wanted to know, so 728-1220 is the working temp at most extremes. I see it a lot like solder and the fact you can't over heat the electronics you are soldering, I'm pretty good at that, so my experience with Alumaloy shouldn't be too bad.


The hole is at the wrong angle, not centered, and is already a good 5 sizes larger. All the promotion videos state it is stronger than aluminum, including the section about drilling and tapping, I would think the biggest problem with the product is to make is stick very well. I'll keep in mind it does not actually melt together with the aluminum, but is a surface hold, so sanding and ruffing up the aluminum helps keep it attached.

I wonder how well it would do for the common issue with the ATC125m shift issues where the raised aluminum spot breaks off where a bolt that holds the spring/arm that pushes against the shift drum goes. Should be fine to build it up a bit thicker than OEM/ down side is that I would have to split the cases to do it properly. Since that is the case, I might just get an even longer bolt and make it a though bolt + lock nut (or lock washer + nut) on the inside to make it stronger.

[atc300r]

Barnett you cant get a center case for $100 at least not one thats as good as Im tyring to repair.I could send it out to get welded and lap the case afterward. I might get some of this and try it on something else.I saw a similar product last year that you had to use map gas or acetelene tourch instead of propane.

[barnett468]

Barnett you cant get a center case for $100 at least not one thats as good as Im tyring to repair.I could send it out to get welded and lap the case afterward. I might get some of this and try it on something else.I saw a similar product last year that you had to use map gas or acetelene tourch instead of propane.


Hello atc300r


That's a bummer, I wasn't sure what they cost, I was just using that number as a point of pain where I might try this stuff or get it welded properly as you suggest which is obviously the best thing to do.


There's a few types that use flux which bond better and those might be the ones that use the gas you are referring to although they recommend using an oxy/acetylene torch with a "carburizing" flame.

[kb0nly]

I doubt it would work on the shift drum stopper boss on a 125, just way too damn much torque applied to that boss which is why they snap off. If the stopper arm doesn't break the boss does! I had one a while back the arm broke, replaced it, then the boss broke! I assume the arm broke but the boss was cracked and weakened also and didn't notice it. So the next hard hit it took and goodbye...

I took the whole trike to a local metal fab shop, pulled off the right rear wheel to give him a little more work room and just put it up on a bench, a little cleaning then he welded it up with his TIG and rods and man it was strong.

I have given thought about improving it as well, a longer bolt and machine a bushing to replace the shoulder the stock bolt has, you wouldn't even need a washer and a nut inside the motor, just a longer bolt. The hole is threaded deeper than the little bolt goes, so if you have a longer bolt that goes all the way to the bottom and into the case side the boss is on that would definitely improve the strength.

When i had that one welded he built it up around the bottom of it, adding layer after layer and it was damn pretty. I wish i would have taken a picture but i just didn't have the presence of thought to preserve that for others to see that day. I was trying to get it repaired, running, serviced and back on its wheels in a single day for its owner to leave for vacation with it.

[barnett468]

Hello ps2fixr



That is basically exactly what I wanted to know, so 728-1220 is the working temp at most extremes.

Oh, I never said that. There is a maximum point that a metal can be heated to after which it turns into junk. Alumaloy does not list the maximum working temp for their product. The other problem is that unless you have an infrared on the working area you never really know what the temp actually is.





I see it a lot like solder and the fact you can't over heat the electronics you are soldering, I'm pretty good at that, so my experience with Alumaloy shouldn't be too bad.

It was not user friendly for me for what I was doing and I can weld fairly well, others have a different experience with it.





The hole is at the wrong angle, not centered, and is already a good 5 sizes larger.

That’s a big area, I would tig weld it.





All the promotion videos state it is stronger than aluminum, including the section about drilling and tapping,

The key word here is “promotion”, what do you expect them to say? I could not find it independently tested anywhere so one only has their test results to go by. The site I looked on said Zinc had a lower brinnel hardness than most cast aluminums. But it’s possible Alumaloy is right saying it is harder.





I would think the biggest problem with the product is to make is stick very well. I'll keep in mind it does not actually melt together with the aluminum, but is a surface hold, so sanding and ruffing up the aluminum helps keep it attached.

That’s what I’d do.

[ps2fixer]

Good tips, here is the horror. It is a 200x head, I have another one, but wanted to attempt to fix this one instead if I can on the cheap. The whole machine don't value a whole lot after fixed good enough to be a rider, so I'm trying to fix it on the cheap, or I'll just add it to the machines to part out. Sadly I would probably make more parting both 200x machines I have, instead of trying to make 1 rider and part the other out.

[Gearheadtom]

I've used this stuff before, and the trick is you gotta heat the part enough to melt the rod, not heat the rod and melt it on, which makes it hard to do two repairs close to each other, or one big one. Since aluminum conducts heat so well, one spot you fixed could melt out while fixing another.
I tried fixing a broken case with this stuff once, but I couldn't get it hot enough with my propane torch, small parts are easy. Again because aluminum is so conductive, it sucks the heat away from where you're trying to repair it.

[barnett468]

Hello

I wouldn't even tig weld that unfortunately.

[fastatc70]

I have used this stuff with a good deal sf success. I get this stuff from work but it is called something else. I have used it to repair condensers on the new carrier roof top units.

The only thing that you can use to heat is a small propane torch. The oxy/ ace torch will not work or will a turbo torch setup. It is not as easy as it looks but it dose work.

Like it was said above clean. Degreaser. Carb cleaner, acetone then alcohol. You can't do it twice if you mess up the prep.