Changed to 5 Pin CDI....HELP

[deuce228]

I changed from the round 6 pin to the updated 5 pin. I bought the CDI from the link in the sticky and another member generously provided the plug. I got the 200ES started but only on full choke and full throttle. It will stay running off throttle and most of the choke but it is running VERY rough. Any ideas?

Before the CDI change it ran great after tapping the CDI box with a screw driver.
After the change it runs like crap.

[tripledog]

Are you sure you got a cdi without an electronic advance? If it has electronic advance, it will not be compatible with the mechanical advance of the 200es ignition.

[deuce228]

I guess not. I bought one off the link in the sticky thread. The link took me to a specific one and I bought it.

This is the one that I bought. I am not sure if it is mechanical or electronic, it doesn't say. http://www.ebay.com/itm/321095193713?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[tripledog]

Double check the wiring position if you followed the sketch I sent you. I have been wrong before, and I am sure to be wrong again. Where is kbOnly when you need him? That is the guy that can help you out.

[deuce228]

I confirmed wiring with Dr ATV image to be sure. I will double check when I get back home.

[deuce228]

Confirmed again. It is wired the same as to your diagram and dratv

[kb0nly]

Here i am! Sorry been busy as heck here...

Ok, so it was running 100% before the swap but now it runs rough? Let me ask this, did you pull of the gas tank to get to the wiring and do the swap, or was the entire fuel system left alone? Because the fact that you have to put on the choke and full throttle sounds more like a fuel issue... But! lets troubleshoot this a bit.

Wiring i see has been confirmed, so no issues there that we know of. Those CDI's that i linked to in that post, and the one you bought, is the exact one i have on my 200ES and it runs so smooth its scary. There is no electronic advance in that unit.

Now the only suggestion i can make, other than could it be a fuel issue from tearing off the tank and possibly shaking some crud loose that got into the fuel system and the carb, is that its a bad CDI. There has been a couple guys on here that mentioned they had a CDI brand new, one of these cheap ones, that had issues. So its not impossible.

Also, check your firing timing, i know i know, it ran good with the old CDI, but who knows if someone adjusted it in the past to make it run good with that CDI that was going to crap. Set the flywheel to the F mark and then check the alignment of the advancer and the pickup, move the pickup if you need to and get the lines on them lined up. Also inspect the advancer, there is no telling if its just a coincidence that something else happened.

You can get the contacts back out of that plug, they can be released and removed and then plug the contacts back onto the pins of your original CDI, you could do that and see if it goes back to running perfect, if so then its just a bad new CDI, if not then its something else yet.

We will figure this out!

[deuce228]

Any chance you could shoot me your number in pm and I call you tomorrow?

[tripledog]

Did I tell you kb was the man? YES I DID!

[deuce228]

I can get it to idle off choke. It still runs like crap when given any throttle.

To clarify the only thing that changed from running good and now is installing the new harness and Cdi. I had the harness pulled down already so I could tap to start. Nothing on the rest of the bike has changed. My second Cdi box should be here later this week.

Unless I try to wire outside the harness to the old one I can't go back. The terminals are bigger than the old ones and won't fit in the round plug. Anyone have that wiring diagram?

[my1423]

Bad grounds will do odd things.
Like make them not want to rev up ect.
Check your grounds!

Did you put dielectric grease on all the connections?

[deuce228]

No on dialectic

[deuce228]

check your firing timing, i know i know, it ran good with the old CDI, but who knows if someone adjusted it in the past to make it run good with that CDI that was going to crap. Set the flywheel to the F mark and then check the alignment of the advancer and the pickup, move the pickup if you need to and get the lines on them lined up. Also inspect the advancer, there is no telling if its just a coincidence that something else happened.

All Greek to me. Is this located near the pull start?


Hoping the second Cdi I ordered comes tomorrow. Will advise if its any different

[deuce228]

I pulled that cap and set it to f. Not sure what to do now or if I should wait for that second box before making adjustments.

[kb0nly]

Ok first off, all the info you have been asking for is in the Service Manual, click on the link below in my signature to take you to my manual server, click on the 200ES folder and then download the service manual PDF file, all your questions and prayers will be answered.. LOL

As for timing... Ok, the flywheel is set to F, now take the cover off up on the head, the one that says CDI on it. Inside there is the spark advancer and the pickup coil. With the flywheel set to F the advancer and the pickup coil should line up perfectly, they both have a line in their center, those lines should be lined up. If they are not you loosen the two phillips screws holding the pickup coil plate and rotate it until they line up. Thats how you check the ignition timing, really simple.

I would check the timing, if thats all perfect then wait until your second CDI shows up. It could just be as simple as a flaky CDI. The fact that you say it will go off idle a bit but not rev up only means two things... One the advance is not working, or two the carb isn't giving enough fuel. But as you said it ran good before, when the CDI wanted to work, then its probably not fuel related.

My CDI did the exact same thing, although i didnt use a screwdriver, i would take it off and smack it on the sidewalk a couple times then put it back in and it fired right up. The contact size was the same between my original and my replacement CDI. If yours are that much bigger i would make sure they are correct and making good contact with the CDI pins. If they are too big to fit into the round plug then just place the contacts directly onto the pins of the original CDI without the plug, thats how i did it with my CDI to make sure it was working before replacing the plug.

[deuce228]

I tried to put the new contacts into the old plug by hand. They touch. I pulled them and wrapped with vinyl tape and they wouldn't fit. I will check the advance and see. If I need to I will buy new smaller terminals and try the old one again. Thanks for clarifying

[deuce228]

Found little metal pieces and a rusty dust inside the cover labeled Cdi. Normal? Guessing not. Aligning did nothing BTW

[deuce228]

Inside the cover174546

[deuce228]

My guess is the pulse generator is toast or the advance. The material had a slight curve to it.

[my1423]

Common to see those bits loose in there on a stock bike.
Old buffers on the advance. Get old and fall apart.

Since it ran good prior to the cdi change and bad after, would point to a wiring issue.
Check the connections, ohm the coil, pulse unit, primary, ect.

[kb0nly]

Those little pieces are usually parts of the advancer, the little stops break off.

[deuce228]

Do I need to replace?

[kb0nly]

I would replace it, but i know guys that have run them with the stops missing and they still do work. But check the springs and make sure its working.

[deuce228]

Does anyone have one for sale or have an affordable source

[kb0nly]

Check with Howdy on here, last time i needed one i bought it from him. Otherwise eBay is a good source, they are spendy as heck new.

[deuce228]

Ok. New CDI finally came in the mail. It is running the same. Difficult to start. With this most recent unit I had to pull start it. It would not fire the first time with my starter.

I am really confused. Saturday I will go get some dialectric grease and also terminals that are sized for the old CDI so I can back track.

When it is running it will idle for a while and not miss. As soon as you give it gas it is missing like crazy and makes a hell of a racket so I don't run it long like that. I don't want any damage.

I cannot check everything without buying a new machine, I am going to ask around and see if I can borrow a unit. My amprobe checks continuity but not resistance.

[kb0nly]

Sounds like your advancer is bad then. You give it some gas and it misses because the timing is not advancing with the extra fuel to rev up. You might just need an advancer. I would pull the pickup coil and the advancer and have a look at it. To remove the pickup remove the two philips screws holding it and remove the mounting plate, then remove the 10mm bolt from the center of the advancer, the advancer then pulls off the camshaft end. Be careful not to loose the tiny little pin that sits in the side of the shaft to key into the advancer. Otherwise it won't spin with the camshaft. I suspect you lost your stops and its got other issues, might be jammed up. What happens is nobody ever services them, they seize up and won't freely turn to advance the timing.

[deuce228]

Ok. Sent message to howdy to see about an advance. I thank you for your help.

[deuce228]

Received the advance from Howdy today and will be installing it tomorrow. Anything I should know? I pulled the old one. The only discernable difference is the stops on my old one are toast. Hoping this fixes the problem and it isn't a timing chain issue. My wife is ready to kill me.

[kb0nly]

Just be careful tightening the bolt that holds it on the cam, its only like 6-8 ft lbs i think, snug it down is about it. I use a mini torque wrench for small bolts like that, you don't want to snap it off!

Oh i know about the wife bit, thats why i don't tell her what i'm doing on the trikes... LOL

[deuce228]

I installed it with my stubby wrench. See my new thread. More info