Putting things in places they ought not to be (250R Hybrid Motor build)

[Billy Golightly]

My old man keeps saying "I hope I live long enough to see and hear this piece of trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro run..."

:lol:

[aldochina]

well that ought to keep you motivated on the project! thanks Pops!!

[Billy Golightly]

Here is a video that finished uploading last night - its kind long and rambles, but gives you a good idea of the true size of this thing and how it fits around on there, as well as a half assed summary of the tools and process to make the pipe;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XhZVbsvqI

[250rRoostmaster]

Great work Billy, can't beat hanging with the old man and fabbing up stuff!

[rdonald1979]

Your a lucky man to have him around to help with this type of stuff. Mine dose not understand my obsession!

[Billy Golightly]

Just wanted to give an update - I started welding on this thing and using the MIG wire was just frustrating the ever loving trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro out of me, always bending and twisting the oposite direction I needed it to be for the weld pool, so I gotta swing by the local welding supply store and buy some .035 ER-70s2 rod/straight wire and then get back on it. I also did get some silicon bronze rod to play around with - I don't think I'll do this one in it but will keep playing around and perhaps try the next one (Stainless) in it, to see how it would look and turn out.

[El Camexican]

If you ever decide you must weld it with a MIG check out a pulse machine. They weld the light stuff much better than the standard MIG machines.

[Billy Golightly]

OMG...4 hours of welding later (and something like 96 total weld beads I think it is, I have not counted them)

http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-PsK8tNJ/0/L/Teaser-L.jpg (http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-PsK8tNJ/A)

More pictures coming soon...

[jays375]

Well did it pass final inspection?The inspector seems to be really looking it over pretty hard.

[tecaterob]

Can wait to see more pics... Looks awesome

[Billy Golightly]

Dads not real sure about this one yet...

http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-Wr3WQnL/0/L/IMG_7169-21-L.jpg (http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-Wr3WQnL/A)

http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-NDVv6Q8/0/L/IMG_7167-19-L.jpg (http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-NDVv6Q8/A)

http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-nBj2gFB/0/L/IMG_7168-20-L.jpg (http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-nBj2gFB/A)

http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-XNrqZGR/0/L/IMG_7166-18-L.jpg (http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-XNrqZGR/A)

http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-7NL4KHh/0/L/IMG_7164-17-L.jpg (http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-7NL4KHh/A)



Seems to pass muster! :D:beer


BTW, Pic #4 gives you an idea of just how massive that thing really is...

[Billy Golightly]

http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-LH22Tr9/0/L/IMG_7139-2-L.jpg (http://wgolightly.smugmug.com/Rotax-250R-build/Exhaust/i-LH22Tr9/A)

[jays375]

Does it interfere with the kicker at all?I love the facial expression in pic 4.

[Billy Golightly]

Its very, very close. It will probably need a little bit of massaging (like 1/16th) for it to never interfere any. When I pieced everything together it was just barely glazing by it but I have a feeling after everything is mounted and solid it will have shifted a bit and I'll need to roll that edge of the pipe in a bit. It is what it is - this pipe is basically twice the volume of the stocker so some concessions have to be made!

[Blizzard420]

That is one super sexy pipe Billy, and your dad looks so much like my grandfather (RIP). Cant wait to hear the sound.......

[Billy Golightly]

Testing of a reply from Tapatalk - new mobile app for the forum.

[Billy Golightly]

That is one super sexy pipe Billy, and your dad looks so much like my grandfather (RIP). Cant wait to hear the sound.......

Sorry about your Grandpa...I was pretty late in dads life (he will be 82 in March) but we've always had a good enough relationship to atleast be able to go to the shop and tinker around with things and build stuff :)

[atc007]

This thing will be barbaric once dialed in. I would love to throw a leg over it someday. Great perseverance here for sure! LOVE the pics of Dad. Pipe aint too shabby either lol. Wow.

[Billy Golightly]

Catching up on gold rush this morning... :)

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[C.J]

That pipe is HUGE! Jeeeezzzzz,,, this is gunna be one AGGRESSIVE looking bike lol

Have you given any thought to hammering the welds flat as you're welding the pipe together? So it's smoother and all ya know?


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Billy Golightly]

While I was about half way through - yes. I think I will try that on the next one as that seems to be a bit of a missing link between the finished look of mine and most others I've seen. There is already an incredibly amount of start and stopping though, so I'm not really sure adding more to do that will work out the best, but clearly the real pipe builders do something a bit different to flatten and smooth out their joints a bit more. Part of it may be using a O/A torch setup and making a wider bead? Not sure..

[Dirtcrasher]

It's somewhere between beautiful or the tail end of some crazy underground dwelling creature :lol:

[manbearpig]

i heard the owner of BDT talking about how Kenny Roberts uses some type of fusion with no welding media. sections are fused together leaving no inside or outside bead. just a clean joint. dont know, im not a welder or "metal fuser" but it sounded legit when he was describing it

good lookin pipe Billy

[Billy Golightly]

That is interesting. .. if you have perfect joints you can do a fusion weld with no filler, but your setup has zero room for error there then. I just wonder if the tig or o/a them. Arlen on led performance Facebook said they use tig to tack and o/a to finish. Would love to pick one of those guy's brains sometime.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[C.J]

I would think the o/a would be the way to go. You get a smoother bead and better heat dissipation vs a super narrow bead with the heat just on the joint. I've noticed with like the raw SCP, LED, PSI, Jolly Moto pipes the heat discoloration is way wider vs the heat discoloration with a for-sure TIG welded pipe. I'm sure Arlen or Mat would give you some pointers if you asked nicely and explained you're just doing a couple pipes for yourself.

Side note: REALLY loving being able to use Tapatalk now!!


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[fabiodriven]

That's absolutely fantastic William. I'd like to tackle a pipe build someday myself. We'll get in-depth in June while assembling the grill. I need the skinny on how you figure this all out and put it together. Then shortly thereafter we'll go throw some big bore roost around.

[Billy Golightly]

I would think the o/a would be the way to go. You get a smoother bead and better heat dissipation vs a super narrow bead with the heat just on the joint. I've noticed with like the raw SCP, LED, PSI, Jolly Moto pipes the heat discoloration is way wider vs the heat discoloration with a for-sure TIG welded pipe. I'm sure Arlen or Mat would give you some pointers if you asked nicely and explained you're just doing a couple pipes for yourself.

Side note: REALLY loving being able to use Tapatalk now!!


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

I believe you're right. I really wanted to try a silicon bronze rod for the joints (I brought some recently) but I just didn't feel like I knew enough yet how to use it and I was getting anxious on putting this thing together. The other down side with using the yellow material is if it ever cracks or breaks anywhere, you're kinda effed to stick it back together without the same filler and setup. That'd be my luck to have it shake apart at trikefest or out in the dunes and have no way to repair it (like finding a tig welder or o/a torch is hard enough).

[Billy Golightly]

That's absolutely fantastic William. I'd like to tackle a pipe build someday myself. We'll get in-depth in June while assembling the grill. I need the skinny on how you figure this all out and put it together. Then shortly thereafter we'll go throw some big bore roost around.

:lol::lol: I'll bring the wind and rain again for that endeavor.

[Billy Golightly]

Ladies and gentleman, men and women, children of all ages, I am most pleased to announce to my most esteemed fellow cohorts in moto science and bench racing studies.......



I have ordered the (I believe) last parts necessary to complete and assemble this motor.

It was a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro expensive order;


Complete case bearing kit
Blind bearing puller
shift-shaft needle bearings (for my experiment)
A freshly plated cylinder
A new +4mm stroker crank
A new 39mm PWK Carb
An angled coolant elbow since I have to re-do my planned routing because of the size of the pipe.

I have to place a second order to McMaster Carr for a couple little odds and ends (couple heli-coils, a metric drill to try out that needle bearing on, etc.)



I have set a self imposed deadline of January 1 to finally hear this trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro run.

:)

[Buster Brown]

That is interesting. .. if you have perfect joints you can do a fusion weld with no filler, but your setup has zero room for error there then. I just wonder if the tig or o/a them. Arlen on led performance Facebook said they use tig to tack and o/a to finish. Would love to pick one of those guy's brains sometime.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk



Billy,
Rob Selvy explained to me that pipe guys like Kenny and Matt fusion weld their pipes with a gas torch, then hand pound each weld seam to smooth them out. Like a Chinese walk, but with seams. I'm going to spend a week with Kenny and Rob in February, and look forward to seeing the process.

[Billy Golightly]

Oh man! I'd love to see that in person! Not sure if you'll be able to take any pictures or video, but that surely is some once in a lifetime first hand experience you'll be getting there.

[bkm]

Billy,
Rob Selvy explained to me that pipe guys like Kenny and Matt fusion weld their pipes with a gas torch, then hand pound each weld seam to smooth them out. Like a Chinese walk, but with seams. I'm going to spend a week with Kenny and Rob in February, and look forward to seeing the process.Can I stow away in your luggage?

[Buster Brown]

Funny Bryan. Rob's got me packing an extra jumbo bag filled with short track parts.... Good thing Southwest allows a second bag without charge ;-)
I'm not only suprized, but obviously honored to be invited. I'm actually staying with them at Kenny's place so it will be extra fun! We have plans to go to the Imperial dunes over Presidents Day weekend. My first trip to the dunes, and I get to embark with these two! Pretty sure what ever they have for me to ride won't be any slowch. I plan to take plenty of pics and maybe video. I'll feel out the temperature, but I get the vibe they're up for fun.
Anyway enough of my gloating, back to Rotax pipe building 101.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

So Billy,

We have a Hond-Ax with a bore and stroke of 82x76.... 401cc. :D :beer

And also, you are running the R.A.V.E. valve, correct???

I am SO looking forward to the test run report!!! :D :beer

Congratulations! I hope all of your hard work pays off in spades! Might be the next big thing!! :D

[Billy Golightly]

Yup, rave valve. I think the bore is 83.5mm but I could be wrong it's been so long since I started working on this thing I am not sure haha.

I'm thinking I'll call it the Rotonda

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[fabiodriven]

Is a RAVE valve Rotax's power valve? What actuates it?

[Billy Golightly]

Its spring loaded, basically just the exhaust pressure itself either raises or lowers it.

[MIK6]

I'm thinking I'll call it the Rotonda

I LOVE IT!!
I cant wait to see that thing at TF! Good luck on the startup!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yes, the Rotax Adjustable Variable Exhaust (R.A.V.E.) is arguably one of the best, simplest, and most reliable exhaust valves going.

It works on exhaust pressure and is widely and easily adjustable to the user's liking by adjusting the depth of the red inner spring retainer, or changing to stiffer or lighter springs. I have had a few Ski-Doos in my day and have a fair bit of experience with them...

As with any exhaust valve though, they do require a cleaning every now and then.

[Billy Golightly]

Since I will (hopefully) be to that point soon - where is a good place for me to buy some different springs to try out? Are these things numbered like main jets? :lol:

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Since I will (hopefully) be to that point soon - where is a good place for me to buy some different springs to try out? Are these things numbered like main jets? :lol:


Unfortunately they are not numbered like jets..... Probably the best place to get springs would be from a BRP OEM parts supplier.. They only run $6.. http://www.skidoopartshouse.com/oemparts/a/ski/500c264cf87002314436e6fb/cylinder-exhaust-manifold-reed-valve-793

I could have sworn Crankshop sold mod Rave springs... but it seems they no longer offer those..

But what you will notice is that there will be different part numbers for the Rave springs for different models that use the same engine.. IE: MXZ800 and Summit 800 in the link I provided.. The Summit is a mountain sled and the Rave springs are likely to be lighter for high elevation operation.

It looks like your only option for different spring rates would be experimenting with different springs from another model running the same engine. I don't think there is a difference as far and length and diameter with the springs in the smaller 500, 600 and 700 cc engines.. But Im not 100% positive on that so I don't want to suggest running springs from a 500 on your 800 cyl...

But, I doubt you would find the need to run different springs. The Rave adjuster cap offers a pretty wide range of adjustment

[Billy Golightly]

As Honnerlaw said - 20lbs of trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro in a 10lb box, basically.


206452206453206454206455206456206457206458206459

[El Camexican]

I think it would look super cool if you passed and welded a metal tube through the pipe and routed the coolant hose through it.;) Like running steering rods through the oil pan of a Hemi:lol:

[ironchop]

Call it The Hotax.

Sounds like something the Bunny Ranch owes the IRS

[Billy Golightly]

I think it would look super cool if you passed and welded a metal tube through the pipe and routed the coolant hose through it.;) Like running steering rods through the oil pan of a Hemi:lol:

My old man actually suggested that :lol: a pass through for it.

I'm gonna just run it off the left side and use a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro-ton of coolant line. I have to mod the cylinder some more to make that happen even though.

[bkm]

And I think my Pro-x 250r is cramped. lol Working on that thing would send me into lunar orbit.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

As Honnerlaw said - 20lbs of trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro in a 10lb box, basically.




But I'm going to bet that's going to be 20lbs of hard hitting s***! :beer

[Billy Golightly]

I'm starting to get some parts in. Enough that I can work on finishing buttoning up a few things while the rest is in transit (hopefully).

My new cylinder is here, so I get to build the water spigot interface on it, and the helicoils came so I can finish 2 spots on my case there and have them ready to work on the needle bearing around for my shifter shaft also over the course of the next couple days.

[Billy Golightly]

I am still waiting on parts with the Holidays - so the 1st of Jan was a bit ambitious perhaps :lol:


Looking more like middle/end of January realistically.

[Billy Golightly]

Haven't gotten to do much yet, my shift shaft needle bearing hasn't shown up so eff it, I'm gonna assemble without.

I finished heli-coiling the back to cylinder studs, as a precautionary mostly. I think the threads in the cases I did originally with a tap would have been okay, but it would have sucked to have gotten this thing all the way together and lifted the cylinder off the deck :lol:

And I just finished doing the final lapping on my cases, I did have one minor air leak in the counter balancer chamber which is very very common in my experience in any set of cases thats been worked on or repaired or not had an easy life (these literally were in the scrap aluminum pile and got kicked all around the shop and barn for about 4 years before I started this project). I had worked on these before using a couple squares taped down on a piece of thin glass but didn't get the results I needed or really wanted.

I've been wanting a granite surface plate just for this kind of work bad, and I just haven't been able to make myself justify buying one, so I wound up using a large marble dinner table :lol:

I learned a tip from John Tice over @ www.everything2stroke.com (http://www.everything2stroke.com) about using a big belt sander belt, instead of trying to tape together shitty sand paper squares to work from. I bought this 18x36 belt off of McMaster Carr for like, $13? Cut it in two and clamped it to each end of table.

207347

I then took a sharpie marker and went over the entire gasket surface to black it out, so I could see where my high and low spots were. After about 15-20 minutes between each case, I had the counter balancer chamber area sufficiently evened out and pretty much every other spot, save for the area around the drain plug I had to weld up and re-tap, but oil is a lot less likely to leak than air in the vacuum of the crank case. Each half has 2 places on it welded. Let this be a lesson that cases are salvageable, although for any other build you'd probably want to just buy ESR ones. Send your damaged 250R cases to me if you're going to throw them away! :D


207349

Partially there, still have some low looking places that need addressing.


207348

Completed! Pretty much everything resolved.


Basically, I need to pull all the old bearings and seals I used to mock up with. Clean the hell out of the cases, and then put in my bearings and start assembly. I still have not completed the water spigot change on the new ready-to-use nikasil cylinder I bought as I just can't decide exactly how I want to do it. I am going to go ahead with bottom end assembly (Including the new +4 crank) and then do the water spigot on the cylinder last I guess since I keep procrastinating/figuring on it.

[jays375]

Out the cases in the dishwasher when nobody is home.I had a old dryer for cleaning gas tanks.

[El Camexican]

I sure hope everything spins and turns freely for you, you've put a lot of work (and heat) into those cases. Can't wait to hear that pipe growl!

[fabiodriven]

It will be just fine Debbie downer! Jeez Louize!

Looking great William!

[Billy Golightly]

I sure hope everything spins and turns freely for you, you've put a lot of work (and heat) into those cases. Can't wait to hear that pipe growl!

If the crank spins, It'll put everything else into alignment shortly thereafter....

:D:lol:

[Samjp22]

I don't think you'd be able to salvage this case Billy lol water pump tore it apart just a bit 207444

[atc500x]

You think? a man with a welder and good tool can repair anything......

[Samjp22]

true, wouldn't see me trying to fit that though, missing a huge chunk, inside scored and missing chunks as well

[El Camexican]

You think? a man with a welder and good tool can repair anything......

Or as it applies to me the saying goes " A tool with a good welder can ****-up anything"

[Dave8338]

Just re-read this entire thread. Looking forward to the first kick on that monster! :beer

Can't believe it has been a year, already. One would think you were build a motor from scratch or something...


GREAT work. Love the pics of your father, too.

[Billy Golightly]

I don't think you'd be able to salvage this case Billy lol water pump tore it apart just a bit 207444

If I was a little bit better machinist and had the DRO working on my mill, I'd tackle that no problem. Building back up the surface area isn't a problem but machining the area back out for the counter balancer bearing needs to be done with a boring bar. And without a DRO to center up on that hole...no thanks right now :) Definitely a possibility though for someone better than I am!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

My father was a machinist for 30 years. What a good machinist can do never ceases to amaze me. Back in 1995 I bought my first 85 R for $200, just needed an axle carrier.. It was missing. Dad brought his calipers home, took some measurements on the axle and swingarm and 2 weeks later came home with a steel carrier for me! Blew my mind! Everything fit right the first time. Only thing was he wanted to take another .005" off the OD because it was very hard to turn in the swingarm for chain tensioning.

Sorry about the hijack Billy... All this machinist talk just reminded me of what Dad did for me when I was a broker than broke teenager....

[Billy Golightly]

Just re-read this entire thread. Looking forward to the first kick on that monster! :beer

Can't believe it has been a year, already. One would think you were build a motor from scratch or something...


GREAT work. Love the pics of your father, too.

Thanks for that! We fight like cats and dogs occasionally but he is pleasure to be around when we aren't and probably will be the most knowledgeable person I'll ever work with in my life when it comes to equipment, tools, and working on metal. He'll be more glad than I to finally see this thing run I bet!

[Billy Golightly]

Got all my old mock up bearings and seals remove from both cases. Tapped every hole on both case halves. Really trying to decide how I want to clean these things, I've never had to deal with a pair of engine cases that have been subjected to so much grime and metal shavings before...:lol:

Thought about making a poor man's hot tank and using a turkey fryer with simple green it, let them soak at boiling temp for a while and see if that lifts and releases everything? Would really like a big ultrasonic cleaner but...about $500 for one of those.

[C.J]

I've done the same thing with a small fryer and purple power to clean a carb. Works pretty damn well actually


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Billy Golightly]

I think I'll give it a whirl sometime this week and see how it turns out!

[C.J]

I meant purple power,,, lol

It cuts grime better than simple green, IMO.


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Billy Golightly]

I meant purple power,,, lol

It cuts grime better than simple green, IMO.


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

How much did you cut with water? Seems like that might give off more nasty fumes in the steam vapor than simple green (Could be wrong though)

[C.J]

I set it up outside my motor shop and let it cook while I worked on my frame,, every hour or so I would check on it and if it were getting low I would top it off with water. I did that until the water fairly clear and there was a decent amount of scum on the surface.


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[El Camexican]

After I did the case stuffing on my bike engine everything was full of aluminum and JB Weld dust.

I took a bottle of liquid dishwashing soap and lathered the engine with a tooth brush. Then I bolted the case halves to 2' X 2' piece of 3/4" plywood and went at them with a pressure washer. By the time I was done every bearing was sparkling clean and spun freely. It takes a while and you'll be best off to wear rain gear, but it works great.

Then just blow all the holes and bearings out with air and warm the cases with a heat gun to get rid of any moisture. The last thing is to lightly oil the bearings and your ready for paint.

[atc007]

Agreed^^ Purple degreaser in a spray /mist bottle. And a steam cleaner/jenny. You will be dirtier than the cases you started with. But they will be spotless. Getting closer!!

[onformula1]

Carb cleaner in a can is your friend, them spray & soak with foamy engine degreaser in a can, then tooth brush or better a small brass brush, then simple green and pressure washer her down, use dawn soap to clean off any residue, rise, dry with compressed air.

[oscarmayer]

your build is looking great sir! really impressive! looking forward to hearing it run!

[Billy Golightly]

Here is something I dreamed up at about 730am this morning - http://instagram.com/p/xw6r_0oaSW/

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[Billy Golightly]

My scheduling has been awfully screwed up lately but I DID manage to get all my new bearings put in the cases yesterday. I now have to tear down the donor motor and start putting the trans and other parts into the rotax cases. We've had some really gnarly overcast and raining days here, and about half the ballasts in the shop lights are out, so it makes working on smaller intricate trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro difficult lately. Hoping to get atleast the donor motor tore down today after running some other errands and taking care of things, maybe a few things put over into the other cases :)

[whitetail hunter]

one step closer, cant wait to hear that beast come to life.

[Billy Golightly]

Okay, big update after today, first big one in a while! :D Had some errands and other thing to attend this morning, so I really got started on this thing about noon time, and pretty happy with the amount of progress I was able to make given the time and what I was doing. So lets get this show on the road and let ya'll see what I was able to accomplish!

First stop, getting the welding/dissasembly/everything else table kinda half way cleaned off and somewhat organized!


208225

208226



208227
I was able to press my bearings in one day last week, maybe it was yesterday, hell I don't remember :lol: Whatever day it was, I wasn't able to do much more than that. I used the Boss brand bearing kit off of ebay, I liked that it came also with the ones to rebuild the counter balancer which I will be doing also. Not sure why that one trans bearing has a seal on one side, the opposite side towards the clutch is open, I figured they knew better and more than I do about such things so I left it in there. After all the time and effort spent getting that center case surface evened back out, I tried to treat them like an artifact that was to be on display in the Louvre, lest I nick or damage them in someway. During bearing installation, I used a propane torch to warm and expand the cases. All but one transmission bearing just fell into place. Literally, not figuratively, I dropped them in the hole and they went to the bottom. I hate pressing bearings anyways, and putting crankshafts in bearings is worse yet. More on that later.


208228

Here is my donor motor, with a Paul Turner top end (Believed to be circa old school, as its on lest bore and half way worn away with the etching, and it ran really, really, really good for a 250 top end). I'm gonna shelve the top end and I'm certain it will end up on something else eventually, maybe one of my other hill climbing bikes or something else entirely, who knows? I have a few oldschool cylinders like this in my collection/hoard. The porting on this one is really, interesting to me. Its rougher than hell in side, the grinding, but it ran awesome. You'd look at it from the bottom and be like "Da trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro kinda hack job is this?!". Who knows.

208229208230Here is something below I want to show you guys, its what I call the "case splitting notch" on 250R cases. Most of you probably already know this, some don't. This little tab's specific purpose is to give you something externally on the cases to wedge them apart to aid in the process of splitting them. Basically you get it started, and then can go to the front and back motor mounts, and finish from there. Or you can use one of them $200 motion pro case splitter tools. I've used this method and never had issues. Don't be an idiot with the screw drivers though, your mileage may vary.

208232208231
I just wedged a punch in there, gave it a little bit of a tug, and whop, first little opening of the cases. Yes they're dirty. You wouldn't believe me if I told you I already burnt a can of carb cleaner and hit them with the air nozzle for about 20 minutes before splitting them, but I did.

Moving on...


208236208233
I get the donor motor split, get the trans out into my Rotax cases, pull the dowel pins (save I realized later reviewing these pictures I was short one and totally forgot about it...wtf). I installed my +4mm stroker crank into the one half as well. Speaking of that, allow me to rant for a moment. This is my second Hot Rods crank kit. For the money, I will keep the complaining to a minimum, but they fit RETARDEDLY tight into the main bearings. Every time I put a motor together with one I wonder if I am going to break the cases in two before I get the thing pulled together. The last one (not a 4mm stroker) I had to actually setup the tool post grinder on the lathe and trim down the right hand side of the crank journal because it just would not go in the bearings. Its ridiculous how tight they make these things, I know they dont want them to spin in the bearings, but I mean, really?


So, then this happened shortly thereafter -



208235208234
I guess I'll express my ignorance here again for a moment. I always thought the 4mm stroker cranks were drop-in. I made no arrangements or had given zero thought to having to clearance anything. A paltry .090 difference in height, never occured to me. Especially seeing as how I had already machined and done so much on these things. I looked at it several times, ran it through, kept looking at the angle of the rod. After a while I decided if you kept the small end EXACTLY parallel with the crank during rotation it would clear. So I figured I would stick a couple bolts in the opposite case, set my cylinder on with a piston and run it through, see what happens. I hate pulling main bearings of a Hot Rods crank, did I mention that before? Some frustration later...

208241

Aaaaand...nope :lol: This was as far as the piston would come to TDC before the rod started dragging on that top edge of the case. Back apart she goes.

208237
It sucked that I already had all my brand new bearings installed, had cleaned the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro out of these cases, and here I was gonna have metal shavings all over again, of course. So, I tapped everything up, and decided I'd use some files instead keep from rapping a rotary bit up in the tape and getting crap all over in the bearings again, which would be my luck.



208238208239208244
So, after taking a pretty large amount of material out, I figured that it would have been enough, but actually, it wasn't. And I had to take it back apart for a second time, and do some more because this is what I still had, after I bolted it together.


208243
I did get smart enough to atleast mark out where the width of my rod was, and I made it bang around on the case enough to mark it well so I knew exactly where it was hitting and dragging at.


208240
Taped everything back up, AGAIN!...and this time I got the rotary tool out and got serious.


208245208246
And then I put everything BACK together again, for the 3rd total time. Did I mention how much I hate putting main bearings of a Hot Rods crank? It sucks.


208247
Well hey, What'ya know! It made it to TDC this time after I got it all assembled!
208252
And room to clear for my squish clearance and deck height even with the cylinder bolts snugged down, awesome! I had done some figuring with the 4mm stroker crank based off of the stock one and figured I'd be okay, but my math aint that great, so I don't rely on it until I see things actually put together.



208251208250
When I was having the spacer plate made by Cometic over a year ago now (:crazy:) I had a couple different thickness base gaskets made also, so I could play around with my deck and port heights. It looks when I go to do final assembly, I can swap out the thicker gasket for another thin one to bring the piston closer to the top, and to also get the transfers better lined up with the edge of the crown on the piston at BDC, as it goes about that much below the bottom edge of the transfer ports right now. 2 thin gaskets should about do it. I can come back and really tweak things later on once I know it runs. I will still check the squish clearance, I don't want to run it too tight, or too wide right off of the bat. I do not want a high compression motor.


And now, for your viewing pleasure, some engine pornography.

208242


208253
208249
208248

[El Camexican]

Lookin good! Have you have a chance to shift it yet? If the drum turns you're home free!

I think that trans bearing seal come like that when they buy them in bulk. Have seen it on other engines. I'm guessing you could remove it if you wanted.

When do you hope to fire it?

[Billy Golightly]

I ran everything through the gears while it was in the one half amongst the rod/case issues, and everything cycled good. I have not gotten the shift star onto the end of the drum to cycle it completely through the gears since putting it together. I did thread the lock bolt into the end of it and turn it around some back and fourth (seemed free) so I should be good there but will know for sure once I can go through all of them.

Probably another week or two to fire. The list is getting shorter, but I still have to -

Install crank/oil seals everywhere.
Check squish clearance, adjust as necessary.
Put coolant line/elbow on my "new" cylinder (I have a plan, I think) and route hoses.
Rebuild water pump (I have to order a seal, because I'm dumb and forgot to get one before).
Surface the cylinder head.
Make some mounts for the pipe (I'll do this after it runs for me probably)

[El Camexican]

Once you get the transfer port height where you want it can you perhaps just skim the cylinder to the height (if not so much as to mess up the o-ring groves) so that you don't have to cut the head to keep the clearances where Rotax planned them?

I'm sure you posted this before, but rather than speed read 329 posts I'll just ask if that's the Rotax piston in there?

[Billy Golightly]

Haha, yeah that was back on page 1-5 somewhere...:lol:

Odyssey piston. Original Rotax piston has a larger diameter wrist pin, which means I have to go to a larger rod, which has even more clearance issues. Especially with a +4 crank.

[El Camexican]

Haha, yeah that was back on page 1-5 somewhere...:lol:

Odyssey piston. Original Rotax piston has a larger diameter wrist pin, which means I have to go to a larger rod, which has even more clearance issues. Especially with a +4 crank.

So now the question that's really got me wondering. Was the Rotax piston a flat top or a dome? If it was flat does that not change the shape of the combustion chamber you need?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

So now the question that's really got me wondering. Was the Rotax piston a flat top or a dome? If it was flat does that not change the shape of the combustion chamber you need?

Going from memory from about 5 years ago when I had my MXZ800 apart.. I'm pretty sure they were domed pistons... I would have to dig through some old pics.. not sure if they are on the old computer that doesn't work any more though..

[fabiodriven]

Is there any reason you don't, or perhaps you are, put the the crank in the freezer overnight prior to assembly?

[Billy Golightly]

Normally keeping something cold when handling it here in FL is about the same as keeping something warm up there where you guys are at. I've tried it before and by the time I get it out and handle it enough to get it into the cases, its already almost room temperature. Its been a few years since I did it (The one I had to grind the journal on was the last one) so maybe I was doing it wrong somehow but I never noticed any difference with it.

[El Camexican]

Can't be much worse than here Billy. Only thing I'd add to the freezer trick is that I remove the frost with a a rag and then dry it with a heat gun as soon as its together to keep it from rusting. Liquid nitrogen is another option.

[Louis Mielke]

Dry Ice, and put your part in a plastic bag to prevent the frost/condensation

[Billy Golightly]

Never thought of trying dry ice before! Might give that a whirl the next time I need to do one.

[Billy Golightly]

208545

There is my squish test. About .090 clearance +/- right now. I should be able to know about .025 off of that by just going to the thinner base gasket on both sides of the spacer plate. Beyond that, I don't want to make too tight of a motor off the bat, but that is a pretty wide squish clearance right now. Wouldn't hurt to try that and start off with it. Might end up with a 10k rpm rev monster or something...:lol:

[Billy Golightly]

I also did bolt on the shift start to the shift drum, and ran it through every gear with the cases bolted together too :)

[C.J]

I wanna see that mofo rev to 10k LOL That would sound WICKED!!!

Did you happen to weigh the rod/piston against the counterbalancer?

Not a lot of people (that I've seen) do anything with changing the cb weight when they are building these huge hybrids and to me, if you kept it all balanced (at least in stock weight ratios) it would rev smoother and higher?


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Billy Golightly]

I wanna see that mofo rev to 10k LOL That would sound WICKED!!!

Did you happen to weigh the rod/piston against the counterbalancer?

Not a lot of people (that I've seen) do anything with changing the cb weight when they are building these huge hybrids and to me, if you kept it all balanced (at least in stock weight ratios) it would rev smoother and higher?


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)


No but that is a great topic and a *very* valid suggestion! I do know that I'll be unbalanced crank wise running this larger piston. I've heard varying degrees of success and thought, some people go all out and rebalance the cranks for the bigger pistons, and a few guys just drop in the 4mm ones and kinda say the heck with it. You're right though, very few do anything with the balancer itself. I might have to check into that with this motor at some point. Good thinking.

[Dirtcrasher]

Looking GREAT Billy!!

As long as it's ready for a 7 second run up the backbone, all will be well :D

[C.J]

No but that is a great topic and a *very* valid suggestion! I do know that I'll be unbalanced crank wise running this larger piston. I've heard varying degrees of success and thought, some people go all out and rebalance the cranks for the bigger pistons, and a few guys just drop in the 4mm ones and kinda say the heck with it. You're right though, very few do anything with the balancer itself. I might have to check into that with this motor at some point. Good thinking.

If you do ever get a hair up your bum and tear it down, I would be VERY interested to see what the weight/balance is of it.

I wonder if there's anyway to do a rotational balance test with it all in the cases. Other than the 'nut numbness and itchy hands' test. Lol


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[fabiodriven]

I'm not terribly familiar, but isn't there some sort of mallory metal or something that you can drill out areas and fill with that? It's heavy metal or something if I'm not mistaken. If this doesn't make sense I've been awake far too long. I'm just going by memory, no time for Googling or anything right now. Time for bed.

[oscarmayer]

dang billy, that think looks awesome!!!!
best stuff yet sir!!!!

[Billy Golightly]

I'm not terribly familiar, but isn't there some sort of mallory metal or something that you can drill out areas and fill with that? It's heavy metal or something if I'm not mistaken. If this doesn't make sense I've been awake far too long. I'm just going by memory, no time for Googling or anything right now. Time for bed.


Yes in fact I believe alot of the crank weights are holes drilled that then have tungsten rods pressed into as it is denser/heavier than regular steel. I'm sure there are other proprietary types also.

The thing is, with the Honda cranks with the "tins" on it, you are kinda limited to what you can do vs others that do not have that.

[fabiodriven]

My thoughts were adding mallory to the counter balance. Too small is it?

[C.J]

You could drill plugs out and refill them with it. It would be a bit tedious, but would be worth it in the end


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Billy Golightly]

Some more progress. I think I finally got my coolant lines figured out, did the second spigot mount on my mock up cylinder. AND I put on a full size regular tank and shrouds. Now that I know it is possible, I will finish putting the bottom end together, drill and tap the "good cylinder", and then, basically, try and figure out where the hell my electricals will go....:wondering:lol:


208959
You can see here my original location for the water neck, but wouldn't work after I had the pipe made. The new location just BARELY clearances the pipe. I will still probably put some reflective heat sheathing around the hose (and maybe backside of the pipe too even)

208968208967208966
Words cannot adequately describe how rewarding it was after cutting up half a dozen coolant lines and staring at this thing for the last month to finally lay my head down on the concrete shop floor, looking up, and actually see light between the pipe and that coolant line. Everything is so tight and such a cluster, I really needed to see that...
208965208964208963208962208961208960208975

I think it looks like I have an octopuss in my frame now, basically.


208971

Found a couple more close calls. You see how close the petcock there is to the side of the intake, which should really give you guys a good idea of how much bigger around this cylinder and engine really is than the standard 250R.

208979Another spot, this is the corner of where I had to weld the head up. I pulled it back off and hit it with a big rasp file and have the corner rounded off much more. The Short-track tank I mocked up with before wasn't close here, so I guess that is another spot the must have trimmed some size and weight from on them! And now for your viewing pleasure, full size tank and shrouds. Will definitely need some reflective heat wrap/tape, but hell, it fits and bolts down which is better than I had expected!!



208974208973208972208970


208969

[Dirtcrasher]

Awesome, just awesome!!

[tecaterob]

Man that looks sweet!!!!!

[onformula1]

Really cool!

It looks like someone Photoshopped a HUGE barrell, head and a pipe on a 250r.

[Billy Golightly]

Really cool!

It looks like someone Photoshopped a HUGE barrell, head and a pipe on a 250r.


That would have been much much simpler...:lol: :D

[onformula1]

Thank you for keeping the power valve, I can't believe you made it fit, but it is the coolest part of the build...To me.

That and you didn't have someone else build it for you.

[oscarmayer]

looks bad @$$ sir!
is it too late to make 1 recommendation on the cylinderhead water spout?
i had a simular issue on our ATV race motor. I found it easier to move the water spout to the left side of the motor (sittign on the bike) and then routing the water lines. this allowed me to have a straighter connection to the inlet on the rad as well as it got it out of the way of the mounting spots for the tank.
not sure if ti will help, but that is what we did. the bike is town down now (welding on final lower mount and preping for powder), but i hope that gives you an idea.

it does look nice sir. i knwo how hard it is to do custom stuff and make it fit. I am just worried about the viberation on the hose causing you leaks after the metal wears the rubber out. i would hate you to be halfway down the track and you loose your coolant on your leg. tha5t woudl suck and burn at the same time.

keep up the awesome work sir! it looks great!

[Billy Golightly]

I actually mulled over something very similar, but I couldn't figure out how to make the water pump turn backwards, to make it flow that direction. I was going to make the back part of the water pump go to the radiator, and the front go to the cylinder (Opposite of how it is now) but after consideration I figured the enigneers had a reason for looping it the direction they did and decided I'd better try and stick with it.


looks bad @$$ sir!
is it too late to make 1 recommendation on the cylinderhead water spout?
i had a simular issue on our ATV race motor. I found it easier to move the water spout to the left side of the motor (sittign on the bike) and then routing the water lines. this allowed me to have a straighter connection to the inlet on the rad as well as it got it out of the way of the mounting spots for the tank.
not sure if ti will help, but that is what we did. the bike is town down now (welding on final lower mount and preping for powder), but i hope that gives you an idea.

it does look nice sir. i knwo how hard it is to do custom stuff and make it fit. I am just worried about the viberation on the hose causing you leaks after the metal wears the rubber out. i would hate you to be halfway down the track and you loose your coolant on your leg. tha5t woudl suck and burn at the same time.

keep up the awesome work sir! it looks great!

[C.J]

Hey Billy, you know what's next after this one, Huh? You need to build a Krankenstein style Honda engine ;)


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Billy Golightly]

Hey Billy, you know what's next after this one, Huh? You need to build a Krankenstein style Honda engine ;)


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)


Intake towards the front, and exhaust facing backwards, you mean? I tell ya, after working on this thing, I have a whole lot better understanding an idea of what all is involved for something like that. As sad as it is, if I had a good set of cases to work with and I had to do this again, I bet could almost do it in a day. (Definitely NOT INCLUDING THE PIPE) And its taken me a year, lol.

[Ol Deuce]

Intake towards the front, and exhaust facing backwards, you mean? I tell ya, after working on this thing, I have a whole lot better understanding an idea of what all is involved for something like that. As sad as it is, if I had a good set of cases to work with and I had to do this again, I bet could almost do it in a day. (Definitely NOT INCLUDING THE PIPE) And its taken me a year, lol.

Tehehe That's time well spent !!!:D:Bounce:Bounce:Bounce:Bounce Ol Deuce

[C.J]

Intake towards the front, and exhaust facing backwards, you mean? I tell ya, after working on this thing, I have a whole lot better understanding an idea of what all is involved for something like that. As sad as it is, if I had a good set of cases to work with and I had to do this again, I bet could almost do it in a day. (Definitely NOT INCLUDING THE PIPE) And its taken me a year, lol.

That's EXACTLY what I mean! I'm working on doing a Suzuki engine like that. And by 'working on' I mean I haven't started it yet but have it all planned out lol

It's crazy how "easy" it is to learn these things if you just take some time to think and actually start working on it. Your engine is coming out KILLER and I can't wait to hear that big f****er bark!!


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Billy Golightly]

Tonight I finished fully assembling the bottom end (clutch, counter balancer, shift mechanism). I have the cylinder bolted down, and the head. Somehow I lost a couple of head bolts, so I have to buy a few of those and some washers tomorrow. I have all the engine seals in also. I had forgotten along the way that I needed a clutch cover, as the mock up one I was using is broken all to trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro, and the other one I had had 2 holes in it from the main crank bolt backing out on me on another motor about 2 years ago at Hernando.So for the initial test fire in the next day or two, I'm going to borrow one. I did a little gasket scraping and clean up on the intake, I have to make a gasket for the V-force reed cage. Finish welding together my revised exhaust flange when I first started the pipe, I had forgotten it is only kind of tacked. Will probably match port it up to the cylinder some also. I never did make any permanent mounts for the pipe or finish the silencer. Really wanted to hear the thing run before I spent anymore time on that exhaust, as I have more into it than pretty much the whole rest of the engine project just about at this point.

What do you guys think - should I pick a day once I've got everything ready and do a Youtube Live Broadcast of me trying to fire it up? I think there is some way to do that now.

[SUPERBEAST]

Hell yeah go live


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[C.J]

Live feed FTW!!!!

We gotta have a good bit of notice though man!


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[El Camexican]

What do you guys think - should I pick a day once I've got everything ready and do a Youtube Live Broadcast of me trying to fire it up? I think there is some way to do that now.

Maybe get yourself an account on one of those peep show webcam sites and charge us to watch;)

[onformula1]

Yeah, a webcam account would be cool call it-

puttingbiggirthythingswheretheyarenotsurposetogo.c om

[Billy Golightly]

It hasn't ran yet, I maybe could have this evening but I encountered a rather embarrassing issue with my drain bolt...(:lol: more on that another time perhaps) but here is some new engine pornography for your consumption;


209340209341209342

Red Rider asked back on page 2 or 3 whether I was going to go with the Frankenstein or clean and polished look...well, I guess its Frankenstein :lol:


Maybe I'll make the rest of the bike really clean and pretty and leave the motor butt ugly like it is.

[Dirtcrasher]

Live feed would be awesome.

Billy, I imagine you know that the left crank seal has to be seated (I think) 5mm's more or you'll be on the taper.

I haven't done an R for awhile but I recall that as the rest is pretty simple. Not that whole motor though!!

Carry on :D

[Billy Golightly]

Yup, i usually use the stator plate as I bolt it on also do the job of pushing the seal into its final resting place actually.

[C.J]

That mill is butt-fuggin-ugly... I LOVE IT!!!! Ugly engine, super nice chassis,,, that's where it's at ;)


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[El Camexican]

Red Rider asked back on page 2 or 3 whether I was going to go with the Frankenstein or clean and polished look...well, I guess its Frankenstein

"Patina" has a nice ring to it

[onformula1]

I love the word- "Patina"

Leave the engine the way it is and when the quad guys ask you what motor that is say-

With a straight face, its a old prototype Honda ATC500R motor I found in a junkyard!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Rat trike!!!

The squarish shape of that Rotax cylinder reminds me of the looks of the 450s....

I can't wait to see it run! And I hope that after all of your work its a runner! :beer

[Red Rider]

The squarish shape of that Rotax cylinder reminds me of the looks of the 450s...I agree, it looks very 4-strokish until, of course, you bolt up that boa that just ate a deer.

[Dave8338]

I'm already making "rap-ring-a-ting" sounds in my head, as I type.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I agree, it looks very 4-strokish until, of course, you bolt up that boa that just ate a deer.

And what is sad is that he will actually have some people think its a 450 sooner or later..... I have had people ask me why my R "sounds so funny!" LOL!

[Billy Golightly]

Well guys I got anxious and selfish and ran it with out live feed...:naughty:

Video later tonight or first thing in the AM probably. Precarious as trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro on my stand in the shop, I need to get it in a whole bike

[Samjp22]

Deepa.....

[El Camexican]

Well guys I got anxious and selfish and ran it with out live feed...:naughty:

Video later tonight or first thing in the AM probably. Precarious as trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro on my stand in the shop, I need to get it in a whole bike

Tuned it and ready to watch:Bounce

[Billy Golightly]

While its still uploading, I'll just leave this one here;


209455

[El Camexican]

Those carb vent lines look out of place in that photo;)

[Billy Golightly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjsOX1bKM1Q

[C.J]

It sounds like a fockin rotary!!!! You ever hear the 6-rotor on YouTube? That's it EXACTLY!!

HELL. THE. FRICK. YES!!!!


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Dammit man! To hear it run if even for a couple seconds is amazing after watching everything that went into this build!


Now you better get to work designing a quick-release right side foot peg.. LOL! :beer

[El Camexican]

I love it! You kicking that beast in the air with all those loose parts dangling off it reminded me of the greatest racer in the galaxy! Sounds killer!!!
209458

[atc007]

Maybe get yourself an account on one of those peep show webcam sites and charge us to watch;)

And go to the gym or go off your diet lol. She's gonna be a horse :)
Edit,I typed this before scrolling down and seeing the video :). That has to be a GREAT feeling hearing it run :). Great job.

[Dirtcrasher]

That is AWESOME. I started feelin for ya at one point after all this work!! Your gonna snap that damn kicker shaft!! Get that BEAST on the ground!!

[MTS]

metric trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro ton...bahahaha, i think the comentary was great, that is soo sweet !!! cant wait to hear it "ON" the pipe!!! Good work billy!!! that is such a RAG!!

[tecaterob]

I suggest you install a compression release valve like I did on my KX540 build.
209515

[jays375]

Congratulations!Major accomplishment no doubt.

[j013N]

wow man I've followed this thread since the beginning and it's awesome you basically build an engine!! You've got the right to be proud !

[bkm]

Congrats. I was hoping that vid didn't end with an ambulance ride.

[fabiodriven]

Congrats William!

I was going to suggest the compression release as well. I have one on my KX500 engine. Best money I ever spent. It looks a lot like the one posted, but it goes right through the jug, water jacket and all, and it is worth its weight in gold I can tell you. You would be able to run a really short throw kick starter, it would save you so much trouble. If I can make any recommendations before your final assembly, you wouldn't regret it.

[Dirtcrasher]

Yeah, he's got a mill. He can get r done.....

[Red Rider]

I thought you were going to rip the neck off of the frame, :eek: kicking it over like that, prior to supporting the engine cradle with the jack stands. Congrats on getting it to fire. I know that must have been very satisfying! :beer:

[Billy Golightly]

Not one of my brightest ideas and moments for sure :lol:, but hey, the point was to hear it run a little bit, and that it did.

Big thing now is figuring out what to do with the motor. I think I am going to put it in my main hernando hill climbing chassis just to be able to ride it and dial things in more. A dedicated chassis with that chrome frame and swingarm is down the road as I have pretty much no other 250R parts left to build another bike with.

[Dave8338]

it runs ! !! !

[oscarmayer]

OMG!!! i just got wood...
that sounded awesome sir!!!! dam that was some serious porn sir!!!! Dam serious!!!!! Schaaaaaa----wing!!!!!!!!

[NeverLift]

209557
Enough said.

[Russell 350X]

Awesome job Billy!! You sure have put alot of time into it, you should be proud! Can't wait to see it at Trikefest!

[Billy Golightly]

It should be there! How good it really runs after I've had some time to play around with it is yet to be seen though :lol:

[Billy Golightly]

So I had planned to do this update before I did the running video, but I got excited and did things out of order. Lets go back and pretend it hasn't ran yet...:lol:



I mentioned in an earlier post that I had an embarrassing incident regarding the drain plug. Basically, I had the engine bolted in my frame and stand and started pouring oil in from the fill and then found it running right out the bottom because I did not have a drain plug in it :crazy:. Even worse, I couldn't' find my drain plug bolt, and I couldn't remember what size and pitch I had tapped it to months earlier :drool:. I actually had to let it sit overnight because I really could not remember what I had done there for a setup...

So the following day, I tried a couple bolts, I found a tap and about 5 coarse thread bolts in a ziplock on the work bench and figured that might have been it. It fit but the threads were really loose, so I had too small a bolt, or something. Whatever I had tapped it before when it was all apart, I remembered being a good fit. But I had no idea what pitch it was. I got the thread gauge out and 1.75 seemed to fit it, but the bolt still didn't seem to start right. I was digging for a tap to cross reference with in my toolbox, when I found a large diameter bolt, with a tap tapped to it. Nothing else and it had been taped together for a long time as the tape was more like glue now. So I peeled it apart, and low and behold, I had the right one!




209564
Problem was, as you can see, it was about a half mile too long. Trimming the length of bolts is sometimes hit or miss for me. Usually I am pretty decent at it, but this seemed to be the only one I had that actually fit what I had tapped into the cases, so I was a little anxious. I lined it up with an OEM drain plug for length, marked it, and then hack sawed the end off in the vice. I then took a very small flat file and cleaned as well as redressed the threads so it had an easy start. After a few minutes, here is what I had;



209565

Started in nicely! Just had to be perfectly square with the bottom but that was okay, went in and back out with my fingers no problem. I then took the tap, wrapped some masking tape on it, an wrote on it, what it was so I could cross reference another bolt or easily use it again if I ever needed to.



209563

Afterwards, it was time for me to start sourcing parts to facilitate running it. I've had a CR250 ignition with an adapter plate I've had stashed and been saving mostly specifically for this project.

209566
209569209568

Next up was getting a throttle rigged. I had bougth a new carb, but neglected to get a new cable or another thumb throttle. Luckily, I was able to procure a Magura 1/4 twist and appropriate throttle cable for the PWK from my days of the ATC500R I had built.

209571
(I really like this picture also for some reason - It kind of symbolizes riding and fab work at the same time with the files. By the way, that first one is a fricken MACHINE. I call it my hand grinder because it cuts and works so good, you can watch the flakes of metal get shaved off with every pass fall in the area, its crazy how good it cuts on things)

209570
Next up - I finally trimmed my carburetor boot to length using a vertical band saw. Made a good clean and nice cut. Funny story with this thing better told in some video I took with dad and I in the shop many months ago when I first started messing with the intake setup, but I actually FOUND the original piece of hose this was apart of LAYING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD on my way into town one morning. I actually saw it and thought "I wonder if that is the size of hose I need for my Rotax intake boot" stopped, back up, threw it in the bed of my truck where it rode for several days till I got back into the shop and tried it, and it was EXACTLY the right size. It was a piece of radiator/coolant line off of something, it had a spring in it to keep from getting flattened out in a bed I just pulled out in discarded, but I legitimately found the thing laying in the middle of the road and put it on the motor...:lol:


209567

Water spigot location on my final "Good" cylinder, pretty much the same place, a little bit different than the test cylinder but essentially the same location. A little bit more of a flair out, and i got really good threads tapped in this time, it took a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro-ton of force to get that fitting threaded in, its not going to vibrate and fall out thats for sure...



209572
Figuring out where to put all the electrical really is still a challenge - I basically shoved the CDI box up where the coil would normally mount and got a little bit creative by hanging the coil off of the head-stay hole here as you can see. I am not real sure how the tank will fit over that, I will probably end up doing a little bit different permanent type mount, but again I just wanted to get stuff mounted enough to hear it run. I think doing something similar in that area has the capacity to be a permanent mount. It would make me happier if the coil wire was a hair bit longer because its really stretching it to fit it in there and reach the plug now...

209573

And finally - everything ready to go before I finally fired it up!

[onformula1]

Are you going to build a head stay?

[fabiodriven]

You know how and where to cut a bolt and also how to taper it, but one thing I always do when cutting a bolt is thread a nut on it that I can take off after the bolt is cut to straighten the threads somewhat.

[C.J]

You know how and where to cut a bolt and also how to taper it, but one thing I always do when cutting a bolt is thread a nut on it that I can take off after the bolt is cut to straighten the threads somewhat.

Yup!! Especially when cutting all-thread!

I seriously am envious of the fact that you found the "intake boot" laying in the middle of the road. THAT made the entire build worth it LMFAO


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[onformula1]

You know how and where to cut a bolt and also how to taper it, but one thing I always do when cutting a bolt is thread a nut on it that I can take off after the bolt is cut to straighten the threads somewhat.

Me too, then I clean it up on a belt/disc sander you can make it look factory.

[Billy Golightly]

I had planned to use a nut, but I couldn't find one, and at this point I was not making a special trip into town for just for that. Normally I try and do the same if I have on available.

[Billy Golightly]

Are you going to build a head stay?


Not for the immediate future - maybe down the road. A lot of people seem to take the head stays off and throw them away on the big bores anyways (I read something one time about them warping the base from torsional stress if they couldn't freely torque around?) Dunno whether thats true or not. It looks like a good place to mount the coil at for now, maybe some sort of a pipe mount on the opposite side also.

[Billy Golightly]

Yup!! Especially when cutting all-thread!

I seriously am envious of the fact that you found the "intake boot" laying in the middle of the road. THAT made the entire build worth it LMFAO


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)


Screen cap from a video about a year ago - at some point I'm going to put together a little 15 minute or so documentary type thing on the build, and this is captured from one of those clips...

209598

[C.J]

Not for the immediate future - maybe down the road. A lot of people seem to take the head stays off and throw them away on the big bores anyways (I read something one time about them warping the base from torsional stress if they couldn't freely torque around?) Dunno whether thats true or not. It looks like a good place to mount the coil at for now, maybe some sort of a pipe mount on the opposite side also.

That's what we do with the Suzuki's. The frames flex a good bit and if you tie the head in to a flexy frame then you're looking at blown head gaskets and possibly a crack head or cylinder. I wouldn't run one on this build either, just make sure it's all tightened down real well


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[oscarmayer]

i think billy found the hose first and decided, "Hey, i bet I could build a motor around this hose". ;-)

[C.J]

i think billy found the hose first and decided, "Hey, i bet I could build a motor around this hose". ;-)

More than likely LMFAO


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[onformula1]

I had planned to use a nut, but I couldn't find one, and at this point I was not making a special trip into town for just for that. Normally I try and do the same if I have on available.

Look in the middle of the road for one...LOL

[onformula1]

Not for the immediate future - maybe down the road. A lot of people seem to take the head stays off and throw them away on the big bores anyways (I read something one time about them warping the base from torsional stress if they couldn't freely torque around?) Dunno whether thats true or not. It looks like a good place to mount the coil at for now, maybe some sort of a pipe mount on the opposite side also.

Ok, but keep it in mind.

Head stays tie the motor in with the frame making it stronger and it cuts down on vibration, in fact kawasaki works teams for- MX, SX and off road teams tested different types, thicknesses, and materials to cut down on vibration & add strength to the frame. I have also seen these on other factory bike brands. All factory bikes are hand shimmed to perfection as well.

Just my two cents.

[El Camexican]

You might want to drill and wire that bung plug due to the course threads.

[Billy Golightly]

Yeah...that is one thing I had noticed I did not think of at the time, was using finer threads. I'll definitely take that into consideration.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[ironchop]

.... but I actually FOUND the original piece of hose this was apart of LAYING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD on my way into town one morning. I actually saw it and thought "I wonder if that is the size of hose I need for my Rotax intake boot" stopped, back up, threw it in the bed of my truck where it rode for several days till I got back into the shop and tried it, and it was EXACTLY the right size.

THAT, my man, is Divine Providence

[onformula1]

Yeah...that is one thing I had noticed I did not think of at the time, was using finer threads. I'll definitely take that into consideration.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Use a copper, soft, crush washer & Teflon tape the threads. Works like a dream.

[thcowboy]

Wow nice!:drool: took me three days to read this

[NeverLift]

Anything more than a 5 second run yet?

[Billy Golightly]

No, not yet...Had a lot of other trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro going on. Maybe this weekend? Next weekend I'm out of town, and then the following weekend is prepping for the Imperial Invasion, and then I'll probably have to work for a couple weekends in a row after I get back from there, and then it'll probably be Trikefest before I know it...:lol:

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Take your time man.... Do it right. :beer

[Billy Golightly]

212775

Any ugly engine in an ugly chassis. And i got some more clearance issues I have to address with the carb and the rear shock canister.

[C.J]

Absolutely PERFECT!!! Those two go together like white on rice!!!


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Thorpe]

I think it's sexy... So freakin cool to hear it run billy! Congrats!

[Billy Golightly]

212793212794212795212796

[Billy Golightly]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153804781064237&l=2199108637235661959

Video

[Billy Golightly]

I have a few more tweaks I have to do (build the stinger tube for the silencer and hook it up, etc) put some reflective heat tape on the bottom of my tank, a few other things and I can take it for a test ride!

[Dirtcrasher]

We will keep waiting patiently Billy!!

[Billy Golightly]

21316221315421315521315621315721315821315921316021 3161213153

[Russell 350X]

Saweeeeeeeet!!!!! Looks killer Billy!

[xrider]

We need a ride report STAT

[Keith Salyer]

The Mongrel is a fitting name for something so mean looking.. I bet it rips Billy

[onformula1]

How's the vibration at the grips?

I am curious with changing so many things.

Looks cool in a Mad Max type of way

http://www.madmaxmovies.com/mad-max-interceptor/

[MIK6]

Billy that thing is incredible! I cant wait to see it in person at TF!

[Billy Golightly]

How's the vibration at the grips?

I am curious with changing so many things.

Looks cool in a Mad Max type of way

http://www.madmaxmovies.com/mad-max-interceptor/


Initially I didn't think it was that bad, but its got some shake to it. Not quite into 500 territory - but not super far off either

[Mr. Clean]

It made it!!!!!!

The customs slip says "Sheet metal puzzle - 90 pcs" :lol::D Thanks Hagen!


198824

Billy, After spending some time with Kenny Roberts I have had the chance to get some insight into his pipes. He does not start with flat sections that get rolled. He starts with a straight "sectioned pipe". One piece of the sectioned pipe is in the attached pic from Buster Browns 200r thread. You can see the piece he is cutting is one piece, but picture a 3 or 4 foot piece of pipe that has different diameter sections. Where he gets these pipes I do not know but will ask next time I am in California. He slices off sections as he goes in the diameter and or shape he requires. As Buster Brown also stated he uses oxy/acetylene torch to fuse each section, no filler material. I asked to watch one being built and he said no problem. At some point I will witness and record the process, should be quite the show.

[Mr. Clean]

More pics of the starting pieces, again thanks to Buster Browns 200r build thread.

[Billy Golightly]

You talk him into getting a show, let me know because I wanna fly out and learn myself, Seriously!

Its interesting that is the method he uses, because that is what I started off with actually but I could not ever get the pieces to mate back up right. I ordered those two from Grand River Racing about 3 years ago for a CR500 pipe I tried to build, and I just could not ever get the band saw cuts to match up worth a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro, and thats why I moved to rolling and making individual sections.

213224

[Mr. Clean]

You talk him into getting a show, let me know because I wanna fly out and learn myself, Seriously!



You bet. When are you available to take time away from work? My next trip is in mid to late April. :)

[Billy Golightly]

Right now the weekend of the 11th of April is already booked, but other than that, as long as I have about 2 weeks notice, right now I can go whenever. For booking tickets, the further out the better of course, but within 2 weeks I can still make it work.

[Billy Golightly]

I just came back from my first real test ride on it - I am SUPER happy all things considered! Best way to describe the power is like a well tuned 265 motor, but more power EVERYWHERE. It has incredible low RPM lugging torque thanks in part I'm guessing to the RAVE valve. Its like CR500 torque, I can put it in 3rd gear and just lug lug lug it around and then roll onto it. Its like its got a big fat flywheel weight, but it still rings out and spins up like a 250. The power is really broad, and the power range is very similar to what I like to have in a 250R, its almost identical how the power comes on to the 265 motor I pulled out, but it just pulls and pulls and pulls. I have my 10 paddle skat-trak extremes on in the yard and its just blowing them away, no hook up through like 4th gear when I got out of it :lol:

I was really afraid I was gonna end up with a high RPM peaky drag racing type motor, but so far, it couldn't be further from that! I have some more carb tuning to do and its cooling down right now so I can pull the plug and put an eyeball on it, but man, for building this thing out of scrap and what it is, it runs pretty damn good for a first ride

[oscarmayer]

Awesome man!! Totally awesome!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RIDE-RED 250r]

So good to hear it's working well Billy!

I would also have thought it would be more of a mid/top loving cylinder. Maybe it is though.. My ESR 350 is ported for mid/top but is still no slouch down low. Sheer displacement is nice for that. ;)

Can't wait to see some vids of fly-bys with the Hond-Ax! ... Or was it Rot-Onda?? I forget....

[onformula1]

HOTAX or RONDA

[Billy Golightly]

I need an education on power valves.

Was checking my plug after richening things up a bit, and saw this little bit of aluminum at the bottom of a dark plug.

213308

Which led me to pull the plug and shine a flashlight down in on the piston, afraid I had some detonation going on. Turned out, everything looked okay from the top, top of the piston looked like brand new all around, still could see the laser etched part # on it, etc. So I pulled the pipe and looked up in the exhaust port.

213309 Which actually didn't look bad! The front exhaust side of the piston looks mint also, and I also ran it all the way down to the bottom so I could look across the top edge. (Excuse the splooge, it happened when I was first running it with the choke on)

What I did notice is the fresh scraping on the corners of the power valve. I guess in talking to afew people, this is somewhat normal, but I wouldn't think that the aluminum from there would make it back to the plug unless pipe is scavenging like a mofo? What do you guys think?

[El Camexican]

Did you bore the cylinder and are you sure that's aluminum in the plug and that it wasn't there from new?

[Billy Golightly]

No it was a fresh replate one with good piston clearance.

And no...I did not check the plug before I put it in, but it does seem very odd it wound up way down in there when the rest of the plug is the color it is...

[onformula1]

The power valve can hit the piston if it is not fitted on many motors, the rotax engines (motorcycle, PWC & snowmobile) are more know for this than the Japanese engines especially if it is bored. If a non stock valve was used in your cylinder it can be worst.

The fix is easy just pull the valve out and clearance it with a dremel with a sand roll or the round end of a belt sander. (I prefer this method)

Clearance should be .016-.020 in. I prefer to run it tight but it should not hit and remember piston expansion when the engine is hot as well.

I use a feeler gauge bent at a approx. 90 degree angle, it will ruin your feeler gauge but buy another one just for this purpose & keep it around as a "special tool" for future rebuilds.

Its a easy fix.

[onformula1]

Billy, After spending some time with Kenny Roberts I have had the chance to get some insight into his pipes. He does not start with flat sections that get rolled. He starts with a straight "sectioned pipe". One piece of the sectioned pipe is in the attached pic from Buster Browns 200r thread. You can see the piece he is cutting is one piece, but picture a 3 or 4 foot piece of pipe that has different diameter sections. Where he gets these pipes I do not know but will ask next time I am in California. He slices off sections as he goes in the diameter and or shape he requires. As Buster Brown also stated he uses oxy/acetylene torch to fuse each section, no filler material. I asked to watch one being built and he said no problem. At some point I will witness and record the process, should be quite the show.

Jerry Hall at- Hall's Precision Racing Glendale, AZ does the same thing he has premade cones and sections stacked up like cord wood and uses a bandsaw or large disc sander to cut them or make tweaks to the angles.

Like Kenny Roberts and a handful of others he makes some beautiful pipes.

[RubberSalt]

This is awesome. I've read through most of the 30 pages now. You've tackled some of this the same way my brother has on his rotunda/hondax build. He's been slacking for some time now. He does plan on using a different rod and the mxz piston. He wasn't aware of the potential case trenching required until tonight. His is for the 89 trx, maybe there is more free space for the crank.

As a heads up, big bore kits are available for the mxz :)

[Billy Golightly]

The power valve can hit the piston if it is not fitted on many motors, the rotax engines (motorcycle, PWC & snowmobile) are more know for this than the Japanese engines especially if it is bored. If a non stock valve was used in your cylinder it can be worst.

The fix is easy just pull the valve out and clearance it with a dremel with a sand roll or the round end of a belt sander. (I prefer this method)

Clearance should be .016-.020 in. I prefer to run it tight but it should not hit and remember piston expansion when the engine is hot as well.

I use a feeler gauge bent at a approx. 90 degree angle, it will ruin your feeler gauge but buy another one just for this purpose & keep it around as a "special tool" for future rebuilds.

Its a easy fix.

I had checked it during assembly and found I had about .010 which is similar to what you clearance the exhaust bridges normally so I figured that was good enough at the time. I really am not so sure its the powervalve contacting the piston, because the top corner of the piston looks too perfect still, I mean there isn't any markings of any kind around on it.

Wonder if I am having contact somewhere else like on the crank webs or something...because there was zero indication of detonation on the piston everywhere I looked around at it from the exhaust and from the plug hole.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Oneformula1 is correct about checking/adjusting clearance when boring these engines... However, being this particular Rotax top end is plated and not boreable by conventional means, and you had it freshly replated, I really do not believe this is an issue for you.

Did you buy the PV used/separate from the cylinder??

[Billy Golightly]

Yes. the PV and cylinder came separately to me.

[atc007]

I would much sooner think it traveled up from the cases... JMHO,,,

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yes. the PV and cylinder came separately to me.

Any possibility the PV had those scuff marks when you got it and didn't notice?

Or any chance it is a PV for a smaller bore 5/6/700??? (I'm doubting this being as your piston shows no corresponding wear)

[oscarmayer]

Billy it sucks, but ya may consider taking the motor apart. Better to find no issue now than there be one and it get missed. Also finding it now also means easier to fix than when it pops.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[onformula1]

Billy, did you get the piece out of the plug?

Is it definitely aluminum? It's hard to tell form the picture, but it kinda looks like a burned up piece of epoxy.

[oscarmayer]

Lets hope that is all it is, if it's alloy, I would defiantly want it torn down.

Any updates to what it is billy?

[Billy Golightly]

I did not get to work on it any yesterday. Maybe today. I didn't dig that chunk out of the plug or cut the threads off to look any closer at it but I will. I don't think it could be epoxy - the only places I used that are completely covered up by the base area of the cylinder. I did not put any in the transfer ramp areas. Only thing I can think of its either rubbing a tiny bit on the top corners of the crank case where i clearanced it for that stroker crank, or somewhere else? I mean the crank turned through freely with the rod and piston on final assembly after I went back and had to "fix" that area those couple times to make it clear.

I just gotta decide whether to run it a little bit more and keep checking it or tear it down. I really don't want to tear it all the way back down but I'm sure that is the most intelligent thing to do.


Also, does anyone have one of these sleds, or a buddy with one that could look up and tell me what the timing is suppose to be? Unrelated to this issue at hand at the moment, but I did quite a lot of googling and could not come up with a degree BTDC number, but I'd like to find one so I can make sure my CR ignition is as close to it as possible

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Billy, these engines do not use degrees of crank rotation BTDC to set ignition timing. They go by mm or thousandths BTDC using a dial indicator. (measured from piston top right through sparkplug hole) I'm sure that you, being an accomplished machinist, will have no trouble finding TDC with your dial indicator and checking timing using this method.

Post #2 of this thread from Dootalk.com lists timing and a few other specs you may find useful. http://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/384392-mxz-800-top-end-rebuild/

In case the link doesn't get you there, timing is stated at .138" BTDC.

You got me strolling down memory lane searching topics over there. When I had my Doo's I spent as much time there as I spend here now! LOL!

Trikes are better!!! :beer

[Billy Golightly]

Perfect. Thats something I can work out

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Perfect. Thats something I can work out

I have timed my Rotax sled engines a time or 2 using this method. Once the dial indicator is set, I found this method very easy to work with. :)

[MTS]

I got a whole manual for the 2001 here billy if you need any other info, all sorts of good stuff in it. Hoping that ball of crap was just something that got left behind upon assembly...cant wait to hear a video of it on the pipe!!

[Billy Golightly]

Billy, these engines do not use degrees of crank rotation BTDC to set ignition timing. They go by mm or thousandths BTDC using a dial indicator. (measured from piston top right through sparkplug hole) I'm sure that you, being an accomplished machinist, will have no trouble finding TDC with your dial indicator and checking timing using this method.

Post #2 of this thread from Dootalk.com lists timing and a few other specs you may find useful. http://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/384392-mxz-800-top-end-rebuild/

In case the link doesn't get you there, timing is stated at .138" BTDC.

You got me strolling down memory lane searching topics over there. When I had my Doo's I spent as much time there as I spend here now! LOL!

Trikes are better!!! :beer
Can you verify that timing? I'm looking at this thing this afternoon, and seems like an awful lot not sure I have enough room in my stator plate for that.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I can't seem to find the page I downloaded service manuals from for my sleds and I no longer have the computer that has those files.

Hopefully MTS sees this and can verify those numbers for you.

[Billy Golightly]

I ended up advancing the timing a bit more this afternoon and got it to clean up pretty good and was running AWESOME, took it for a spin and was whacking on it pretty good when it started to make some noise. Think I souped the transmission...:lol:

I am gonna pull the clutch cover off and take a look, but something definitely didn't sound right from that area. Maybe later this evening or tomorrow, we will see.

[Thorpe]

That sucks! Hope it's something minor!

[Billy Golightly]

I pulled the clutch cover last night. Found quite a bit of fine metal, some medium pieces but mostly fines. The basket nut had worked itself loose. I had reused the nut lock (I knew better really but ignored reason in this case) and it had started to back off. It looks like it came into contact with the kicker gear as it was wobbling around. I did also notice though even after tightening it down that it still was pretty damn loose. I have found even "good" ones have some play, but this seemed like it could still wobble around into the kicker gear tightened down. I had replaced the 2 little needle bearings but not the bushing they rode on.

Turns out the bushing (28242-HA2-010) is discontinued, so I might make a new one out of some brass or something. I have a suspicion it is worn down is part of my problem. I ordered 2 new needle bearings again, and also a new pancake bearing for the pressure plate (89 style). Aaand 4 of those nut locks just so I have spares for the future :lol:

I did run the trans through all the gears with the clutch off and everything in there seemed to turn and move smoothly, so I'm I'm 99% sure that is the noise I heard and I'm hoping thats where the metal came from also, was it bumping and getting into the face of the kicker gear.

[oscarmayer]

that sucks man. what about the metal in the piston area that was on the plug?

[Billy Golightly]

I ran it some more in the shop and did not discover any other material on the plug, so that is when I decided to take it for the test ride and heard the trans noise.

Not saying its "fixed" but I ran it in the shop for 15 minutes before going out for a ride and didn't find anything on the plug or in the pipe

[08rap]

At least thats all it was. I know it sucks but it could of been worse!

[onformula1]

I pulled the clutch cover last night. Found quite a bit of fine metal, some medium pieces but mostly fines. The basket nut had worked itself loose. I had reused the nut lock (I knew better really but ignored reason in this case) and it had started to back off. It looks like it came into contact with the kicker gear as it was wobbling around. I did also notice though even after tightening it down that it still was pretty damn loose. I have found even "good" ones have some play, but this seemed like it could still wobble around into the kicker gear tightened down. I had replaced the 2 little needle bearings but not the bushing they rode on.

Turns out the bushing (28242-HA2-010) is discontinued, so I might make a new one out of some brass or something. I have a suspicion it is worn down is part of my problem. I ordered 2 new needle bearings again, and also a new pancake bearing for the pressure plate (89 style). Aaand 4 of those nut locks just so I have spares for the future :lol:

I did run the trans through all the gears with the clutch off and everything in there seemed to turn and move smoothly, so I'm I'm 99% sure that is the noise I heard and I'm hoping thats where the metal came from also, was it bumping and getting into the face of the kicker gear.

Check out Bronze Light Bushing Material-

http://www.nationalbronze.com/oil-impregnated-bearings.php

[MTS]

I can't seem to find the page I downloaded service manuals from for my sleds and I no longer have the computer that has those files.

Hopefully MTS sees this and can verify those numbers for you.

Yes that is correct .138", 3.36mm for the 800

[Billy Golightly]

Okay cool. Well the bushing the needle bearings ride on is out of stock everywhere, so I guess I'm gonna wait till my new needle bearings get here, take some measurements of the one I have, see if I can't tighten things up a little bit with a new one and go from there.

[Billy Golightly]

Well after getting my needle bearings and replacing that stuff in the clutch, tightening it all back up, I cranked it up and ran it. Still had some noise....


So I pulled the pipe and plug again and found an aluminum slurry in the combustion chamber. Don't know what. Almost looks like it had coolant mixed with it somehow. So, obviously, gotta pull it and tear it back down, see what I find.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Awe man!!!! :mad:

[Billy Golightly]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/14/1dbbc70e6f36b2bc8602f5fcca64e9e0.jpg

I'm hoping this was just caused by a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro type new bearing.

[yaegerb]

ooooooo....is that an exploded counterbalancer bearing?

[oscarmayer]

dang billy. that totally suck man. i feel for ya.

[Billy Golightly]

ooooooo....is that an exploded counterbalancer bearing?


Yes. Brand new aftermarket with about an hours run time total on it.

[Billy Golightly]

It ran suprisingly smooth and quiet for that to be the case. I was pulling it apart to inspect the crank chamber and when I went to slip it out, thats what I found...

[onformula1]

I am curious, what country was that bearing from?

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

[Billy Golightly]

I can't remember that one in particular, but it came out of a Boss Bearing kit (Which I had really liked actually). Most all of the bearings in the kit from what I remembered were marked as NTN / Japan on the races. There was one for the trans with the retainer lock groove cut in it that didn't have any markings at all on it which was a little bit spooky but the rest of them were marked well and looked good.

[C.J]

NEVER!!!!! Use Boss Bearings for anything!!!!! I bought some 110 rear end bearings from them and didn't make it out my yard before they completely failed! They are alllll China-China made and shitty quality. Not to mention that the email you get from boss bearing after ordering carries a nasty computer virus


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Billy Golightly]

I ordered OEM bearings, some more gaskets ( I started with a large supply and have had this thing apart/together to test fit and look at things so many times I'm about out of them) and a big sert thread insert to repair one of the helicoil cylinder bolt holes that pulled out while I was taking it apart. Stuff be here in about a week I suppose and we will reconvene then!

[Billy Golightly]

Bearings and new bearing holder came from ESR quicker than I expected (2 days from the westcoast, whoa) so I'm gonna get it ready to put back together. Forgot I gotta fix a heli-coil that pulled out also.

[yaegerb]

Bearings and new bearing holder came from ESR quicker than I expected (2 days from the westcoast, whoa) so I'm gonna get it ready to put back together. Forgot I gotta fix a heli-coil that pulled out also.

Hey Billy, have you thought about a time sert instead of using that helicoil. Helluva lot stronger.

[Billy Golightly]

Hey Billy, have you thought about a time sert instead of using that helicoil. Helluva lot stronger.


Indeed. I had already heli-coiled the stud holes as a precaution but went ahead and bought a time sert kit to redo the one that pulled out.

[Billy Golightly]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/20/0b5409040fb8e15a797d0d37cef29bb2.jpg

Just waiting on gaskets now but at least I can get started

[yaegerb]

Now we're talking sir! I want that kit as well

[Billy Golightly]

It was an expensive little pos...but hopefully it does the trick.

[Billy Golightly]

Well I have not gotten as much accomplished this weekend as I would have liked, but I did get this done.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/25/1464b9040f0dfe875294eae6988ddcbe.jpg

[C.J]

With the gap between the plug you made and the timecert, do you think it's going to hold enough pressure over to keep it from just pulling out again?


92 JP Outlaw hybrid (in progress)

87 LT265R (not much left stock)

[Billy Golightly]

I dunno. The other 3 holes are helicoiled and are holding up fine so far. In the future, I know now to do my plugs a little bit different than those. Ithink it'l be okay, that timsert is actually very long (like 24mm) and I also loctited it in there, so I think we'll be okay. If not I'll have to make a new plug, weld it up, and start over again :lol:

[oscarmayer]

Fingers crossed for ya sir


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Billy Golightly]

Got it running again. I gotta pull the clutch cover and redo the brand new assembled water pump seals which pisses me off, but took it for a quick ride and running pretty darn good.

https://www.facebook.com/wggolightly/videos/10153986404334237/?l=800573330015743014

[bandito90]

Billy, are you bringing the the Trike to Trikefest?

[Billy Golightly]

That is the plan :)

[Billy Golightly]

Got the waterpump seal replaced again, doesn't leak this time. Its running ridiculously good, I'm gonna dial back the jetting a little bit, its scary how quick crisp and good running the thing is right now. Its just about dumb, its got low went grunt like a 500 and pulls enough up top I'm afraid to stay into it still. Took my 10 paddle haulers and blew them away like they were slicks shifting into 4th gear.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Got the waterpump seal replaced again, doesn't leak this time. Its running ridiculously good, I'm gonna dial back the jetting a little bit, its scary how quick crisp and good running the thing is right now. Its just about dumb, its got low went grunt like a 500 and pulls enough up top I'm afraid to stay into it still. Took my 10 paddle haulers and blew them away like they were slicks shifting into 4th gear.

LMAO!! "Just about dumb"... Awesome! :beer