Another 'not starting' thread! Atc 110

[bludshifta]

So i've read through a bunch of them and can't find stories that resemble mine.

Bought this 83 110 a couple of months back. Since then its started 1st almost every time. I take it out to the deer lease this weekend and use it for getting about, exploring the land. It was starting up well and no issues multiple times. I go back to camp, let it sit for a couple of hours and then go to start it. It just wont start. I'm getting a put put put but it just doesn't feel like it will start. I go at it for 10 minutes, fiddling with the choke an so on, scratching my head. Eventually i decide to just let it sit for a while. So 30 minutes later go at it again and after 10 attempts it fires up and runs fine.

The day ends, i bring it home.. Since then it hasn't started. I've checked the spark (its blue), i've done the basic compression test (thumb over the hole and pull, it seems to have compression and i don't see why it would have suddenly lost it).

So i assume my next step is to whip off the carb and take a look. I've not done this before but i know there's a bunch of threads on it.

Just as a caveat, prior to my trip to the lease, i did replace the air filter (sprayed with K&N filter oil) & fiddled with the idle speed a little. Nothing crazy.

So anything jump out at you knowledgeable folk on why a machine would go from hero to zero with little few changes?

Also, what are these two holes on the carb ?

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o555/bludshifta/IMG_1303-WindowsPhotoViewer_2013-10-16_09-34-55_zpsc93c6638.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/bludshifta/media/IMG_1303-WindowsPhotoViewer_2013-10-16_09-34-55_zpsc93c6638.jpg.html)



http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o555/bludshifta/IMG_1308-WindowsPhotoViewer_2013-10-16_09-34-21_zps22aacb91.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/bludshifta/media/IMG_1308-WindowsPhotoViewer_2013-10-16_09-34-21_zps22aacb91.jpg.html)

this one had a longer piece of pipe on it but was unconnected to anything, it snapped when i gave it a wiggle.

Thanks in advance all!

[MonkOFox]

When you replaced the air filter, did you buy OEM? Or at least a foam (2 - stage) filter? If so, the K&N oil isn't suitable (really). In the specs it calls for SAE 30 saturation and the squeezing the excess out. They make dedicated filter oil for that now though (little more sticky for better filtering).

The bottom one is just a drain hose.

From looking at http://www.cowboypowersports.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2567442&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1983&fveh=132965

Looks like the top one is another overflow or breather port of some kind.

[3wheelrider]

top one is a vent- bottom is fuel drain/overflow.

problem sounds like stator/exciter- intermittent problem.
replace it after u check all else.

[bludshifta]

When you replaced the air filter, did you buy OEM? Or at least a foam (2 - stage) filter? If so, the K&N oil isn't suitable (really). In the specs it calls for SAE 30 saturation and the squeezing the excess out. They make dedicated filter oil for that now though (little more sticky for better filtering).

The bottom one is just a drain hose.

From looking at http://www.cowboypowersports.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2567442&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1983&fveh=132965

Looks like the top one is another overflow or breather port of some kind.

The filter was OEM, or atleast it was the recommended on for the 110 on ATC heaven. Given the fact the bike ran perfectly fine before and the previous filter was a mess, i don't feel like thats the issue. Unless the filter oil that i used has somehow been sucked into the Carb and blocked it up somehow, although that seems unlikely.

The way it sounds is like when you try and pull it without the ignition on if that makes sense. The put put put is there but there's something stopping it actually firing.

Very confusing.

[Vealmonkey]

I'm a little confused here. You took the machine back home and checked the spark and all was well. You got a new air filter and all is well. Why didn't you check an alternative fuel or fuel source?????? The engine needs fuel to run as well, right? So why didn't you try making sure the fuel lever is off, but spraying some engine starting fluid down the carb while holding the thumb throttle wide open and the choke off and then try pull starting the recoil starter??? You didn't mention a single thing about that.

[bludshifta]

I'm a little confused here. You took the machine back home and checked the spark and all was well. You got a new air filter and all is well. Why didn't you check an alternative fuel or fuel source?????? The engine needs fuel to run as well, right? So why didn't you try making sure the fuel lever is off, but spraying some engine starting fluid down the carb while holding the thumb throttle wide open and the choke off and then try pull starting the recoil starter??? You didn't mention a single thing about that.

I didn't check those things as I wasnt aware i was supposed to. Im new to trikes, and new to working on engines in general.

So I take off the air filter boot and spray the starter fluid through the back of the carb? Or is there another place I should spray it in? If it were to start, I presume that would suggest its not getting fuel. But the wet spark plug after 10 minutes of pulling suggests to me it is. Again, I'm new to this so I that's not the case please explain.

If its not getting fuel, what are typical reasons for this that would take a perfectly fine and running trike that's been left for 30 minutes to a complete nonstarter ?

Thanks in advance

[Yamaha_Rules69]

It may be as simple as needing a new spark plug. Be sure to get an NGK plug, don't use champion, they are junk. You can have bright blue spark with the plug out, but none under compression load. I have seen this before, the plug is wore out or fouled. The other thing is, how much oil did you put on the filter, and what kind? I know if you use the spray oil, you should spray the filter in a LIGHT coat to cover all of it, then "message" it into the pores. If you put way too much, you could cause a rich condition, and it will foul the plug. If you put too much oil on it, or dipped it, you can always give it a good cleaning, let it dry, and re oil it lightly. I hope something here helps, and let us know what you figure out!

[rg97]

Umm sorry but did anyone else see that his fuel is OFF in his original post?


I'm getting a put put put but it just doesn't feel like it will start. I go at it for 10 minutes, fiddling with the choke an so on, scratching my head. Eventually i decide to just let it sit for a while. So 30 minutes later go at it again and after 10 attempts it fires up and runs fine.

That sounds like its not getting fuel through the petcock (its the three-way switch that is coming out of the bottom of the fuel tank) , just make sure that its on ON or RES, just not OFF. maybe, once you let it sit, some fuel was leaking into the carb and it would run again, but only for a short period of time. that makes sense IMO

The same thing happened to me once, I was running and suddenly it died. I was dumbfounded, i searched all over, tried choke, tried everything. Finally gave up and pushed it back to the house, only to realize that i had turned my fuel lever to OFF when i had finished riding last time and forgot to turn it back on. turned it to ON, let it sit for 10 seconds, and it ran like a champ. that is sure what your symptoms sound like...

[bludshifta]

Umm sorry but did anyone else see that his fuel is OFF in his original post?



That sounds like its not getting fuel through the petcock (its the three-way switch that is coming out of the bottom of the fuel tank) , just make sure that its on ON or RES, just not OFF. maybe, once you let it sit, some fuel was leaking into the carb and it would run again, but only for a short period of time. that makes sense IMO

The same thing happened to me once, I was running and suddenly it died. I was dumbfounded, i searched all over, tried choke, tried everything. Finally gave up and pushed it back to the house, only to realize that i had turned my fuel lever to OFF when i had finished riding last time and forgot to turn it back on. turned it to ON, let it sit for 10 seconds, and it ran like a champ. that is sure what your symptoms sound like...

I wish that was it! Unfortunately it's off in that photo because I always set my fuel to off when not using my trike. I've tried to start this thing on about 5 different occasions since Saturday and always have my fuel set to on. That being said, it still sounds like it might be a fuel delivery issue.

[bludshifta]

It may be as simple as needing a new spark plug. Be sure to get an NGK plug, don't use champion, they are junk. You can have bright blue spark with the plug out, but none under compression load. I have seen this before, the plug is wore out or fouled. The other thing is, how much oil did you put on the filter, and what kind? I know if you use the spray oil, you should spray the filter in a LIGHT coat to cover all of it, then "message" it into the pores. If you put way too much, you could cause a rich condition, and it will foul the plug. If you put too much oil on it, or dipped it, you can always give it a good cleaning, let it dry, and re oil it lightly. I hope something here helps, and let us know what you figure out!

Thanks for the response. I already have a new ngk plug in the mail, hopefully should be here in a couple of days. It would be great if it was that simple.

As for the oil, it was spray stuff, I put it inside and out of the filter. It had had a coat but wasn't dripping. Maybe I should take it out and clean once I've got the new plug.

Thanks

[Vealmonkey]

In your first posting, there is absolutely no mention of removing your spark plug or finding it wet If you want people to help you, you should provide all the info you have. As far as any fire goes, you need: AIR-FUEL-SPARK. Remove any of the 3, and you will have nothing. The basic fire triangle. Please don't make things harder than they need to be.

[zppeacock]

I recently rebuilt my 83 110 and I had spark, but I could never get the trike to run. Triple checked my timing and carb, tried starting fluid.... I was searching here and found it was common that the stator coil goes bad. So one a whim I got a new one off ebay $15 soldered it on and the bike started on the first pull and has ran great since.

Just a thought

[bludshifta]

In your first posting, there is absolutely no mention of removing your spark plug or finding it wet If you want people to help you, you should provide all the info you have. As far as any fire goes, you need: AIR-FUEL-SPARK. Remove any of the 3, and you will have nothing. The basic fire triangle. Please don't make things harder than they need to be.

I understand that its frustrating for the more experienced members when people like me post what appear to be obvious questions. But if I accidentally miss something out, justask for it, or if you dont have the patience to ask nicely don't waste your time replying at all. There's no need for the condescending tone. This place has been a great resource for me so far and a few guys have clearly taken the time to try and help me out as best they can in a friendly manner. I tried to include what i thought was the most pertinent information at the time, I clearly forgot something.

Back to the point -

From the checks i've done (albeit rudimentary), it looks like i have fuel & spark. Blue spark on cylinder head when pulling and then fuel on spark plug after many starting attempts. Presumably the compression test is the 'air'. Which again, the rudimentary test i did would suggest is there and it would be strange for compression to just disappaer after an hour of very casual 1/2nd gear riding . So the conclusion is that maybe my tests need to be a little better!

I'll start small (try new spark plug) and move on from there. I presume the next step after that is the carb.


I recently rebuilt my 83 110 and I had spark, but I could never get the trike to run. Triple checked my timing and carb, tried starting fluid.... I was searching here and found it was common that the stator coil goes bad. So one a whim I got a new one off ebay $15 soldered it on and the bike started on the first pull and has ran great since.

Just a though

Thanks for the info - This is on my list of things to check now.

[Vealmonkey]

Since you have spark with what you have now, you can try spraying some starting fluid down through the carb to make sure it's not a fuel problem before even changing the plug. You have to remove the rubber tube between the carb and the airfilter. Then you have to make sure the choke is off (open) and you have to hole the thumb throttle wide open so the carb slide is all the way up (open) as well. Then spray some starting fluid through the open carb. Once the starting switch is on, then trying to pull on the recoil starter, see what happens. Let us know. It may take a couple of times pull or a couple shots of starting fluid.

[Cornholio]

Simple thing. Switch it to reserve, then try.

[CRAZY70MAN]

I agree with veal ^^^^^^^ Start small. Trace your steps for the fuel as you go. Start with a spray of carb cleaner or ether directly in the plug hole. If it starts....you know it it is a fuel issue. If it is a fuel issue....make sure you have flow thru the petcock and the tank is not full of junk. Check the filter screen on bottom of carb, it is a nut molded onto the filter bowl. It has a screen in it. I f you have fuel to at least there, providing it started on either.....you need to disassemble carb and clean,clean,and clean it again...... Sounds like a fuel issue to me. Is your fuel cap venting properly and not vaporlocking?? Try and loosen it up just to make sure. And I would not spray the inside of a air filter ever. Spray the outside lightly and work it in with both hands. You may have sucked up oil in the carb?? Good luck...do you need a manual???

[bludshifta]

Vealmonkey & CRAZY70MAN.

Thanks for the info. Off to buy some starter fluid now and i'll give it a shot and let you know.

[bludshifta]

Just an update on the status here.

Tried the suggested starter fluid in. First from the rear of the carb with air intake boot taken off. Choke open and throttle open. Second i tried it through the plug hole. Both times i sprayed for about 1-2 seconds at most.

No luck. Does that suggest this is not a fuel issue?

Heres's a video of the spark. I've no idea on this but, should this be sufficient spark to get it firing?

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o555/bludshifta/th_IMG_1310_zps9577c4de.jpg (http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o555/bludshifta/IMG_1310_zps9577c4de.mp4)

[kb0nly]

Hard to tell with it jumping around but it looks like the spark plug is firing off to the side instead of to the electrode. I would try a new plug if thats the case. Good spark outside but could be bad once its under compression in the motor. The color of the spark is certainly good in that video though! Looks healthy voltage wise.

[bludshifta]

Hard to tell with it jumping around but it looks like the spark plug is firing off to the side instead of to the electrode. I would try a new plug if thats the case. Good spark outside but could be bad once its under compression in the motor. The color of the spark is certainly good in that video though! Looks healthy voltage wise.

Thanks for looking. New spark is in the mail.. I had a brand new one lying around but I somehow have lost it so waiting on another.. Think it might be time to buy in bulk!

[zppeacock]

Im placing my bet on the stator coil.

[bludshifta]

Hi Guys,

Just a quick update. New NGK spark plug arrived in the mail today replacing an old NGK. Plugged it in and old blue fired up within 2 pulls and is running like a dream.

The amazing thing was, when unplugged from the hole, the old plug actually looked like it had a stronger spark than the new one. You clever chaps will understand this better than I but i suppose the lesson is - Even if it appears to have a strong spark, under load it might be reacting differently.

Thanks for all the input. Next time i'll have a new spark plug on hand so i can test straight away.

Nick

[kb0nly]

Yup, its always a good shot to replace the plug to rule it out! I just went through this on my 90 yesterday to, pulled four times no fire, usually fires up in one or two pulls. Replaced the plug and fired first pull. I think its the time of the year for a hotter plug again!