1984 ATC300R Fooler build

[bigdaddyvw185]

Last year i got my hands on a 84 250R for 340$ But it had a blown top end....little did i no it was not just any 250R, it had a 300R top end, i did not even realize what i had purchased as this was my first 2 stroke and first full size trike. So i posted up some pics over on .org and shocked by what i had in my hands. I was not going to do a full restoration project when i first got the trike, but once i realized what i had those plans went out the window and a full restoration was coming!!. well that was back in April and the project has since come almost full circle. some parts of the trike were in rather rough shape back when i picked it up. well here are some pics of how it sat when i grabbed it and then i will post more of the entire process up to how i have it sitting now!.
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[bigdaddyvw185]

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[bigdaddyvw185]

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[bigdaddyvw185]

now here are some pics of the transition from Fugly to fresh
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All of the yellow has house of color Metallic Red flake added (my best friend is a paint specialist and he did the paint job but did not mention that he was going to include the flake! lol, needless to say i was pumped when i first saw them!

[bigdaddyvw185]

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[hawaiirider]

nice trike, i had a 83 with a hondaline 300 kit on it, was in immaculate shape but after talking to the guys at airfoolers.com i decided to sell it right away as there is absolutely no replacing the rings/piston when they wear out:cry:
i would have had to go buy a 250cc stock jug and loose my shirt on it, so away it went...
they go for alot of money tho;)

[bigdaddyvw185]

I am a big boy and 310 ish pounds, so when it came time to pay attention to the rear shock i was not about to just leave it as is, So since i had a full build thread over on .ORG, i commented if anyone new a good place to have a rear shock rebuilt..... Manbearpig came threw in the clutch and suggested i send it to suspension 101 out in cali, so i got on the phone with george over at suspension 101 and then a couple days later the shock was on its way!. ended up having it re valved for 360 lbs and a new Eibach spring to match. i have not yet ridden with it since my build is not yet finished but i have sat on it installed on the trike and the bad boy barely flexes!
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[bigdaddyvw185]

181884181885181886here are some pics of it all assembled
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[bigdaddyvw185]

nice trike, i had a 83 with a hondaline 300 kit on it, was in immaculate shape but after talking to the guys at airfoolers.com i decided to sell it right away as there is absolutely no replacing the rings/piston when they wear out:cry:
i would have had to go buy a 250cc stock jug and loose my shirt on it, so away it went...
they go for alot of money tho;)

i no what ya mean man, you have to search hi and low for pistons but they ARE out there if ya look hard enough. :D
i was able to get my hands on a New OLD STOCK 300R cylinder, 76mm piston, rings, 76.25 rings, 76.50 piston and rings, and then 76.75 rings. i am just buying them as i find them. but you deffinatly have to look for them and in some cases pay for
Them! 181849181850181851181852181853181854181855

[bigdaddyvw185]

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[bigdaddyvw185]

i was going to go with the racers toy store mod with the original 300R cylinder that came with the bike if i couldnt find a 76.75 piston, a couple months back...... but when the New old stock cylinder came my way that thought process kind of went out
the window. i was having one hell of a time trying to get my hands on a 76.75 NOS piston. was able to get my hands on the
rings but no luck yet on a piston, i am still looking just to have on the shelf just to have for the potential need in the future.

[ONEBAD350X]

wow that is awesome!! It looks great and will sound even better!! Nice work!!

[bigdaddyvw185]

i paid some attention to the exhaust system also, the head pipe was rusting its coating away and then the silencer was in
pretty rough shape also, so i sanded the head pipe down then painted it high temp black, then polished the silencer up real
good and re packed it with some fresh packing. then did away with the original tip mounting hardware and made my own, i used 3 stainless steel machine screws that screw into a riveted on backing plate that installed in the inside of the tip. i still have to re paint the DG symbol on the silencer in red....just have not gotten around to it.
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[bigdaddyvw185]

about a month after i found this trike i found another 84 atc250r in long island (about an hour and a half away from me) for a
wopping 250$, needless to say it did NOT look pretty and was missing its gas tank, BUT it did have its rear working brake
caliper and the engine DID start right up after i swapped the clean carb from the 300R trike, it in no longer intact and together today seeing that i took the engine off of it to swap onto my clean 300R's frame...this was before the NOS 300 cylinder came my way by the way..... only problem with this engine was that the clutch would not engage. but i have it torn down at the moment to figure out what the deal with it is..... someone out it back together way wrong, the clutch retaining nut was not even tight!.
the damn swing arm pivot bolt was seized solid into the swing arm, so i had to cut the swing arm bear carriers half to hell in order to get the swing arm off to take the engine off the frame, as you can see in the pic's
but needless to say i got some good parts off of it and it helped out a heck of alot with my 300 build. i still have it sitting up stairs in the garage, all i would need to do is buy some swing arm bushing's from 3WW shop and press em into the swing arm and the frame / swing / rear axle / rear suspension would be good to go for another build.
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[bigdaddyvw185]

then as i am sure many of you guys have encountered.....finding a New old stock 2nd gen atc250R shift lever is almost as hard as finding NOS 300R parts..... so i gave up on looking for a NOS shifter ( my shift lever was beat its splines were toast and would no longer grip the splines on the shift shaft.) SoOoOo i made i made my own new shifter, i went out and bought a new shift lever off of the 85/86 R's and cut the spline section off and also cut the folding toe section off then transplanted them onto the 84's shift lever. and PRESTO new shift lever and its a little better than stock because of the folding toe!! lol.
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[bigdaddyvw185]

thanks for the kind words guys, it really does mean a lot to me!. i have put ALOT of time and effort into this build. i had a full
build thread over on .ORG but with that site in shambles i gave up on the build thread over there. everyone kept telling me i
needed to make a build thread over on 3WW....So here it is! i am glad to see that my work is getting approved by the triker's
over here! thanks again!

[bigdaddyvw185]

I have almost all of the parts needed to assemble the engine, shortline10 was nice enough to set me up with a full gasket kit and a new hot rods connecting rod kit, i am going to use CR500 crank bearings as they are a direct fit and will work fine, the advantage to the CR500 crank bearing versus the stock 250R bearings is that the 250R crank bearing's have 7 balls and the CR 500 bearing's have 8 balls. so that means better weight distribution and longer life, way i look at it they are cheep insurance as i dont plan on splitting the cases on this engine again any time soon. i am going to have the engine built by Ken O'Conner racing here in CT and he will be performing the "power player" modifications from the May 1984 issue of 3 wheeling magazine. here is the link if anyone wants to check it out http://airfoolers.com/?page_id=749
along with some minor trail port work, i went up to his shop last weekend and sat down with him for about an hour discussing what we are going to do with the engine, i stressed the point to him that i do not want a crazy race port job i am just
looking to get the most effectiveness that i can out of this NOS 300 cylinder comfortably without going crazy. he is going to take my engine and assemble it with the new cylinder and then flow match off the ports. He used the term when I get this
engine back form being built it will be "Blueprinted" so i am all for that!! lol. then ontop of all the cylinder work he is also
performing the power player mod's to the piston to help in cooling of the exhaust bridge that is in the 300R cylinder. they are known to form a hot spot in the exhaust bridge and drilling the holes into the piston on the exhaust side helps keep that
exhaust bridge cool.
the engine will be making its trip up to ken within the next week or so!! i cant wait!

[TecateDan]

NIce looking. If you plan on bringing it up to NH with the new england crew make sure you run an airbox. THe last 300 to go up there with an open air filament has never been the same since

[bigdaddyvw185]

i am planning on running an air box, tho i need to make a new tab for the back mount on my box as it is broken off. yea i would like to go up with the new England guys when the time comes. what happen'd to the last 300 that went up? i take it that it
injested something bad.....

[TecateDan]

ask Fabiodriven but yes it swalloed more water than it should have

[bigdaddyvw185]

......thats never a good thing. i wish him luck with his trike.....

[ebaccm26]

Nice looking build! What are you going to do about the gas tank?

[bigdaddyvw185]

Nice looking build! What are you going to do about the gas tank?

thanks, I actually just got a gas tank off of ebay Wednesday and brought it up to my sandblast guy the same day. my buddy who isthe painter said he wanted it clean and ready to paint for next week. As for colors we are thinking red up the middle of the tank, then black on the raised side panel's with the black panel's outlined with red along the pinch welds on the bottom of the tank. then red on the front of the tank by the triple tree's. it is kind of hard to explain without actually looking at the tank, but the black is going to follow the raised body lines on the sides then be outlined in red on the non raised area's of the tank. my buddy did not want to paint it just Red, he was like lets do something a little different instead of plain red.
we were thinking of doing the yellow on the side of the tank but ended up going against it, thought the black would be
better since the engine is going all black. then i am going to get a set of the 2nd gen supper scoops and paint them red to
match the rest of the red on the bike. it should come out pretty sweet.

[slashfan7964]

I'd say you got a really good deal on the entire package considering my friend just dumped $500 on an '83 R motor that was freshly rebuilt with less than 10 hours on it. It's going in his '91 250X.

[bigdaddyvw185]

i was hesitant on buying the trike in the first place as it is my first 2 stroke. Heck when i first bought it i new very little about 2 stroke trikes. so i was a little hesitant on buying it in the first place just from that fact. i could have made one good runner out of both the trikes that i ended up getting threw out the entire process but i really was dead set on the 300 kit. as you could imagine that NOS cylinder and its matching piston/rings were not that cheap. I had a 87 250X back about 10 years ago, it was a fun quad no doubt, that was what actually got me into wanting a 250R trike. his X will be pretty sweet with the 83 R engine. hell it will be like a trx250R on a budget haha. cant go wrong with that.

[nicker71]

Will the Cr500 crank seals work too?? I haven't been able to find seals. They are no longer available :(

Nice build. Looking forward to seeing it when it finished

[bigdaddyvw185]

i am having the same kind of trouble trying to find seals. I am having trouble trying to find a complete engine seal kit for that matter, i called racers toy store yesterday with hopes that Larry would dig one up, he said he would call me back later in the afternoon but i never heard from him, i dont no if he is working today but im going to give him another call. he said he sold complete kits years back but has not sold one in years.....but he said he was going to try and piece one together for me. as for the CR500 crank bearing seals, i was told that you use the stock atc250r crank seals with the cr500 bearings. here is the link where i found out about it form foolers.com http://airfoolers.com/forum/index.php?topic=2813.msg40302

so since the cranks seals are no longer available form honda (well you can buy one but not the other) which is nuts......, i am contemplating biting the bullet and picking up this kit from ebay, i dont really want to since i wont be using the bearings but the kit includes both crank seals....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Main-Crank-Shaft-Bearings-and-Seals-Kit-Honda-ATC250R-1981-1982-1983-1984-/330719017984?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0063bc00&vxp=mtr

[bigdaddyvw185]

Well as of now racers toy store is a no go, larry just called me back and said he doesnt have any seals available at all for the
fooler 250R's, tho he did say he was going to place some orders next week and start building complete seal kits again. but who knows when that will actually become available.....

[slashfan7964]

i was hesitant on buying the trike in the first place as it is my first 2 stroke. Heck when i first bought it i new very little about 2 stroke trikes. so i was a little hesitant on buying it in the first place just from that fact. i could have made one good runner out of both the trikes that i ended up getting threw out the entire process but i really was dead set on the 300 kit. as you could imagine that NOS cylinder and its matching piston/rings were not that cheap. I had a 87 250X back about 10 years ago, it was a fun quad no doubt, that was what actually got me into wanting a 250R trike. his X will be pretty sweet with the 83 R engine. hell it will be like a trx250R on a budget haha. cant go wrong with that.

Yeah it will be a pretty nice quad, I just wonder if he paid a little high on the motor. He says it was knocking a little when it warmed up.

[bigdaddyvw185]

knocking would scare me a lil bit, especially considering that it "only had 10 hours on it" that would sketch me out....hopefully he didn't buy someone else's screw up and it works out for him.

on a different not i got my tank back from the sandblaster, only has 2 little tiny dents that will be taken care of, one of them is barely noticeable but there non the less.
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[nicker71]

Sorry I don't mean to hi jack your post. But I just bought crank seals from ebay, I used the Dimensions to find some 38x62x10 and 28x50x7 double lip seals total was $13.52 shipped. This is basically what you get with the Boss bearing kit, they use the same cheap stuff as what I found here, I know this because I have their set in front of me. Notice they use 28x50x7 instead of the 28x50x8 as the Honda parts finch states. I just ordered a set and I will confirm these are exactly like the Boss kit.
I found the Honda seals for both sides on ebay and it comes out to about $30 for the set. But their was only two listings for the LH side left on ebay.

Thats a good looking tank, they are hard to find in decent shape. I used "Alvin Lab-Metal" as filler for the dents in my tank before I powder coated it and it worked alright.

Here's my 84
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t27/nicker71/Picture002_zps84bcdb37.jpg (http://s156.photobucket.com/user/nicker71/media/Picture002_zps84bcdb37.jpg.html)

[nicker71]

I love the foolers, Keep us posted!!


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t27/nicker71/th_Picture013_zps67e7b731.jpg (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t27/nicker71/Picture013_zps67e7b731.mp4)

[bigdaddyvw185]

nice lookin fooler!, post up the link for the seals you got off of ebay, ima grab me a set actually post up the links you for all of the
seals lol, honda ones included if it isnt too much trouble

[nicker71]

nice lookin fooler!, post up the link for the seals you got off of ebay, ima grab me a set actually post up the links you for all of the
seals lol, honda ones included if it isnt too much trouble

No problem, Here are the industrial oil seals
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161111734222?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161111767319?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Honda OEM seals
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321237901887?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370868076238?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[bigdaddyvw185]

thanks!, i made an offer on the larger honda oem seal http://www.ebay.com/itm/370868076238...84.m1423.l2649
so lets see what happens with that, now as for the rest of the seals all of the rest seem to be available from
rockymountainatvmc.com. they have these seals available,
91202-HA2-771 OIL SEAL (28X50X8)
91204-286-003 OIL SEAL (18X29X7)
91207-ML3-003 OIL SEAL (28X40X8) (NOK)

the only seals they dont have available are
91203-430-005 OIL SEAL (38X62X10)
91251-964-000 (replaces part #91206-329-000) DUST SEAL (16X22X3.2)

now i no this may be a dumb question but are there any other seals needed besides the ones i have listed that i should
pickup before i give my engine to the builder next week? because the less parts he has to buy the more money it will save
me lol. id rather go out and buy all the seals i need for the bottom end then have him buy them because they are going to be more expensive if he has to buy them. the seals i listed are all the seals that are listed for the bottom end on rockymountainatvmc.com

[bigdaddyvw185]

thats a nice looking engine you got there man, i was contemplating polishing my left side engine cover like yours is, but one
thing that is holding me back on it was the fact that I thought it would be a pain to keep looking clean and shinny, how long
have you had yours polished? do ya have to keep up on it alot? also what kind of exhaust do you have on your trike? the
engine builder that is going to be doing my engine said that the DG setup i have is no doubt better than the stock setup but he also commented on if i can find a better exhaust to grab it.

[nicker71]

thats a nice looking engine you got there man, i was contemplating polishing my left side engine cover like yours is, but one
thing that is holding me back on it was the fact that I thought it would be a pain to keep looking clean and shinny, how long
have you had yours polished? do ya have to keep up on it alot? also what kind of exhaust do you have on your trike? the
engine builder that is going to be doing my engine said that the DG setup i have is no doubt better than the stock setup but he also commented on if i can find a better exhaust to grab it.

Thanks, It will probably dull rather quickly, but I don't plan on ridding it much. The polishing looks better in the picture than it actually is.
It's a Bassani Exhaust system. Some of the air fooler guys talked highly of it as being a good old school exhaust. I had a dg exhaust and ran it before this one and I with my 250 jug and was pleased with it. The dg is the only one still available to buy new, but If you keep an eye on ebay you'll find a bassani and some others pop up from time to time.

[slashfan7964]

knocking would scare me a lil bit, especially considering that it "only had 10 hours on it" that would sketch me out....hopefully he didn't buy someone else's screw up and it works out for him.



That's what I was saying, especially for what he got. He said the oil had some light metallic in it...either it's parts wearing in or he's got some serious issues. I'd think maybe parts wearing in with low hours like that, but I'm not sure. I told him to check the timing, and he said it was spot on to factory specs.

[barnett468]

91203-430-005 $20.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/S77-NOS-GENUINE-HONDA-CR250R-ATC250R-CRANK-SEAL-OEM-91203-430-005-/281066984830#ht_1063wt_1214


heres a nos oem supplier that has both, prices are english lbs.

91203-430-005

http://www.cmsnl.com/atc250r-1983-usa_model7188/91203-430-005-oil_91203430003/


91206-329-000

http://www.cmsnl.com/products/91251-964-000-oilseal_91206329000/


partzilla 91251-964-000 $3.90

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-91251-964-000.html

[barnett468]

hi, don'y know where you are in your build or oif you are aware of the followig but you might be interested in the following thread.

i would reliebve the ex port and drill holes in the front of the piston to reduce the chance of seizing on the ex side.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/163199-Relieving-the-exhaust-bridge-on-a-freshly-bored-85-250R

[bigdaddyvw185]

i just got a bunch of seals order'd last night, here is a list of what i have order'd. all are oem honda seals.
91202-HA2-771 OIL SEAL (28X50X8)
91203-430-005 OIL SEAL (38X62X10)
91204-286-003 OIL SEAL (18X29X7)
91251-964-000 (replaces part #91206-329-000) DUST SEAL (16X22X3.2)
91207-ML3-003 OIL SEAL (28X40X8) (NOK)

now i think that is all of them, if i am missing one by all means please let it be known thanks for everyone's help!
As for the thread you mentioned i was aware of such modifications, except i found the info from a different source, tho it is basically the same information. http://airfoolers.com/?page_id=749
i am going to perform all of the mods in that article including the cylinder port work, i am having the engine built by ken O'Conner racing here in Ct, i sat down with him last weekend for about an hour discussing the engine. only difference from what i am going to do different from the article is not knife edge exhaust port. it will have a nice smooth curve instead. it was nice because right when i brought up the exhaust bridge in this cylinder to ken he new right off the bat about drilling the holes into the piston and releiving the exhaust port. he is going to give this cylinder a full port job front and back.

[barnett468]

i just got a bunch of seals order'd last night, here is a list of what i have order'd. all are oem honda seals. now i think that is all of them, if i am missing one by all means please let it be known thanks for everyone's help!

There might be an 0 ring on the countershaft but i didn't look.




i found the info from a different source, tho it is basically the same information. http://airfoolers.com/?page_id=749
only difference from what i am going to do different from the article is not knife edge exhaust port. it will have a nice.Yeah, you likely don't really gain any much if any additional flow or reduce turbulence much by doing that mainly because the face of the bridge is flat so the air basically rams into it and blows off to the side and this side air obstructs some of the air from smoothly flowing out the port and because the tail of the bridge is so close to the face where the turbulent air is being created it may not have enough time to smooth out sufficiently for the shape of the tail to have much effect. This idea is a bit if a guess and no one knows for sure but one could run dyno tests to get an idea of what effects doing any of these changes might have. The prob is complicated by the fact that the ex gas is also trying to expand. A wind tunnel test of this would be fun to see, just need to pump some extremely hot air at it.

Imagine the bridge as an airplane wing but both sides are convex instead of one being concave. If you narrowed and rounded the face [steel liner]to resemble the leading edge of an airplane wing the air would travel much more smoothly thru the port which means that more air could travel thru the port.

When one relieves the ex bridge the ring no longer touches it. The primary purpose of the bridge is to keep the ring from expanding into the port and catching on the port. Once the bridge is relieved the only thing keeping the ring from catching is the transition from where it was relieved to where it returns to the size of the bore.

This means that one could actually remove all but around the last 1/8" of an ex bridge on the top and bottom [including the aluminum portion in the port if one wanted] where the "relieved" portion transitions back to actual cyl size. One could also put a radius into the bridge then bull nose the whole thing.

If I still worked at kawai i would do this [since all the parts were there and free] and dyno the cyls first and if it helped anywhere in the power band then ride the bike and let the pro mx guys try it just to see what it does.

All our Kawi factory works cylinders had the ex ports polished to a mirror finish. Harry Klemm and Dave Miller did the same.

[C.J]

That's what I was saying, especially for what he got. He said the oil had some light metallic in it...either it's parts wearing in or he's got some serious issues. I'd think maybe parts wearing in with low hours like that, but I'm not sure. I told him to check the timing, and he said it was spot on to factory specs.

Not trying to hijack BD,, but metalic looking paste in the oil is 90% of the time clutch material and if its "knocking" that is more than likely because most people hone an aircooled motor a little farther than a liquid cooled motor to allow for the "inefficient" heat dissipation. In other words the piston will be a hair too small for the actual bore size and you'll hear it rattle a little. OR it could be spark/heat knock cause from low octane/low quality fuel and/or premix. Lots of variables that could cause a fresh engine to "knock". You can always grab the flywheel and turn it back and forth just a few degrees really fast and if either of the rod bearings are out you will feel them tap through the crank.

Bigdaddy,,, I've been putting off reading the thread cause it seems like all threads that i read always end up not finishing so i was trying to give you some time LOL But its a reeeaaalllll sharp looking bike man!! You did a good job on polishing that silencer! You could probably get a decal made that looks just like the original DG decal but in the color that you want

[bigdaddyvw185]

I am with ya Barnett, the air plane with example was a good way to explain it. ill tell ya having modifications done to this cylinder stresses me lol, it cost be a boat load!, that is one of the main reasons why it is going to the builder to get all of the work done. i feel i am capable of doing the assembly of the engine but when i was told about that power player article from foolers.com i was not comfortable with doing the mods listed in that article. i wanted a builder to do the port work and give the entire engine a once over and assemble it so everything is fresh and at the top of its game. When i went up to talk to Ken (engine builder) last weekend i brought a printed copy of the power player article with me. he read threw it and was all for performing the modifications listed in the article and agreed it would be a good thing to do. but was totally against the knife edging that they described in the article. he was describing what you were describing with the air plane foil. he didnt use that terminology persay but it was the same principals.
I have so much invested into this engine that i just want to get it to the best performing level it can comfortably, not looking to go race madness by any means. just want to make it perform and get the quirks out / fix the problem area's that could come up down the road. Ken was the solution to these stresses for me, he's been in business for 30 or so years, and from the looks of his shop made me more than comfortable with having him perform the work. I just couldnt bring myself to attempt any serious kind of mods to this cylinder Personally with me doing the mods.... as there is ZERO chance i am going to buy another one. lol.......

[bigdaddyvw185]

since i am currently unemployed... I spent the day down at my best friends shop who is doing all the paint work for the trike, and assisted him with getting the tank all baby's bottom smoooooooth lol. tomorrow it will be going in for primer and last inspection before getting a full covering of red, then the tape goes on to edge out the black side pannel's. i think it is going to look pretty sweet when it all gets said and done which we are thinking will be by the end of the week. then for the seat i am going to get a 2 tone cover, Red in the middle then black on the sides, this is the seat cover i am going to get except the colors will be reversed.
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My buddy brought up a good point, i am going to be horrified if i take a tumble on this trike and damage this tank once its finished, he made the suggestion of when i want to have it pretty put this tank on, then when i want to go on an extensive ride swap it out for the 2nd already dented up tank i have. which i thought was a great idea. it would be a tad bit of a hassle but one good roll over and this tank wont be so pretty.... so i see some tank swaps in this trikes future lol.

[barnett468]

hi big daddy

i tried the link to the article in your post but it didn't work. if it's avail online can you post the link. i like to read this kind of stuff fir fun. there's always something new to learn.

[bigdaddyvw185]

http://airfoolers.com/?page_id=109
here is the entire page of magazine articles, the one i was reffering to is at the bottom,
Powerplayer – the Hondaline 300R – May 1984 – ’3 Wheeling’ Magazine.

hopefully it works this time
:beer

[barnett468]

http://airfoolers.com/?page_id=109
here is the entire page of magazine articles, the one i was reffering to is at the bottom,
Powerplayer – the Hondaline 300R – May 1984 – ’3 Wheeling’ Magazine.

hopefully it works this time
:beerhi thanks but it dfoesn't work.

if you paste it in the reply window and then erase the http://www. then i can add it and it should work.

the site shortens all links, for a link to work the entire thing must be in blue once you post it. if you loik at yors it is not all black.

when you remove the http it will still not be blue but it can fix it.

thanks

[bigdaddyvw185]

Go to airfoolers.com and click on the magazine section at the top of the home page you will be all set.

the site keeps auto correcting the website name, its foolers not aircooled250r's.com

[barnett468]

i clicked "vintage magazine articles" and around 20 appeared but i don't know what the title is

thanks

[barnett468]

ok sorry went to the wrong site.

aircooled250rs.com is not a site

[barnett468]

Go to airfoolers.com and click on the magazine section at the top of the home page you will be all set.

the site keeps auto correcting the website name, its foolers not aircooled250r's.com


ok got ya. i think.

i pushed the button to post your quote and it says airfoolers.

i need the titke of the article

thanks

[barnett468]

ok it auto-corrected on me too.

i think the mods do not like those guys so they won't allow the "f" word to be posted, lol.

[barnett468]

is it "power player 300r"?

[barnett468]

ok i give up, lol.

the print is too small to read and it gets fuzzy if i blow it up.

[bigdaddyvw185]

yep thats it lol, take a look at your private message box.

[bigdaddyvw185]

[QUOTE=C.J;

Bigdaddy,,, I've been putting off reading the thread cause it seems like all threads that i read always end up not finishing so i was trying to give you some time LOL But its a reeeaaalllll sharp looking bike man!! You did a good job on polishing that silencer! You could probably get a decal made that looks just like the original DG decal but in the color that you want[/QUOTE]

yea its becoming a long process CJ but its almost there! lol, i posted up some pictures of the gas tank progress from today its on page 3.. As much as i would like to take the credit for the silencer i cant.... my dad brought it into work and handed it off to a polisher he works with, i was shocked on how good it came out tho! lol i just dont no how long it will stay clean like that once the day comes where i actually start riding it. but none the less its still fresh now. as for the DG symbol its not a decal, its painted on to a piece that is riveted onto the silencer, the DG symbol is counter sunk onto the piece then painted black, then the whole piece is just riveted on. tho it is not counter sunk into the piece all that much, very little as a matter of fact
182154

[djm0242]

That is awesome, build your own modern shifter! Ha! I built an 84 last year but it wasn't nearly as nice as your bikes gonna be... There's pics of it on the 2nd Gen 250R pics page it's black and blue. I really liked it alot when I was done. However, I'm a trail and mud rider and I'm also a big guy so I need electric start and reverse, know what I'm sayin? ;)

[bigdaddyvw185]

I no the deal i have a 4X4 yamaha kodiak that is my big mans toy, im also a trail mud rider myself tho this trike will not be seeing much of the mud if i can do anything about it lol. i have never had something that could really get up and GO with me on it so when this project came my way it was a great fit for me. i am excited to see what riding this R is going to be like, i have yet
to get any seat time on any R so this should put a big smile on my face when the time comes!. I will for sure check out the pics of your trike

[JasonB]

coming along nicely man!

[bigdaddyvw185]

So i need some suggestions on what size carb to get guys..... i no the PWK air striker is the one to get but i am torn on what size to get, been told 35mm is a good choice but on the other hand heard 38mm was an awesome fit, i have heard great things from both sized. also heard that the 39mm non air striker worked well also. the cylinder will have a mild trail port.... so what size do you guys recommend.....

i also need to make a decision on a reed cage, have heard mossbarger cages were awesome. and i am fairly sure they are still in business. i no they make different thickness's of reeds, and different materials.... can anyone chime in on what would be a good fit for me?...

[barnett468]

So i need some suggestions on what size carb to get guys.it depends on what your goal is. do you want a stock eng with slightly improved performance or 250 ported for high rpm only or big bore kit. hers some ideas.

port 250 cyl

install stock or ported big bore kit

high perf ex pipe.

remove the stock silencer and replace with non spark arrester type if you do not need it in your area.

increase carb size 2 mm over stock with pipe and mild port job.

increase by 3 mm if ported for high rpm.

it is extremely easy to over carburete an engine.

orig or barnett clutch plates.

stiffer barnett clutch springs if a big bore kit and/or heavy porting is used.





i also need to make a decision on a reed cage, have heard mossbarger cages were awesome. and i am fairly sure they are still in business. i no they make different thickness's of reeds, and different materials.... can anyone chime in on what would be a good fit for me?...i don't know about his reeds but he is a legend. he made the first privater reed valve 1974 cr125 which holeshot 1 of the nationals over marty smith and warren reid etc. i had one of his works kits on mine. he knows his stuff

look at boysen also.

[bigdaddyvw185]

i am running a new old stock hondaline 300 big bore top end, full dg exhaust, and am going to perform the power player mods in the article that i showed u the other night barnett. my goal is to make this one mean trail bike, i will be doing little to no racing with it, just want to make it a beast in the trails

[yaegerb]

38mm airstiker

[bigdaddyvw185]

that is what i was leaning towards myself..... it is neck and neck with suggestions for what size to go with. by all means guys chime in and give me your opinion...

[C.J]

Don't go with a 38 if you want trail power. 36mm mikuni is what you want. Mikuni is super forgiving on the jets and the 36mm still give you good top end while not sacrificing bottom end like a 38 will. The airs truckers are really temperamental (not as bad as a PJ but still finicky). Just my .02

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Nice build Bigdaddy!

I remember the thread you posted when you first procured this old Air-Hammer! Looking forward to seeing the finished build and hearing your ride report being that this is your first wing-dinger! Cheers brother! :beer

[bigdaddyvw185]

Don't go with a 38 if you want trail power. 36mm mikuni is what you want. Mikuni is super forgiving on the jets and the 36mm still give you good top end while not sacrificing bottom end like a 38 will. The airs truckers are really temperamental (not as bad as a PJ but still finicky). Just my .02

See that is exactly what i have been told about going with the 38's..... it would be sacrificing the bottom end.... JEEZ there are so many different suggestions lol.... quite a few people that has given their .02 on the subject said that the 38 would be sacrificing in the bottom which isnt good for what i want, trail all day every day!! but at the same time other guys said it worked great for them, tho i did not no what style of riding they were doing...... as for the mikuni your the first person i have come across to actually stand up for them lol but none the less i will take it into mind CJ!

Ride-Red,
yea i had to ditch my build thread over on .ORG which was rather upsetting.... it got to the point where i tried to post updates and such for over a month and everytime i went to post it was plagued by error message's. sent PM's to administrators about it and never heard anything about it. it was a bummer that was the first site i came to back when i got the 185s when this whole trike situation started. I was not happy about cutting my losses with my other build thread..... glad to see your over here tho. The first ride report will be something lol, ima gunna be smiling like a 5 year old on Chrismas morning haha!
cheers :beer

[barnett468]

Don't go with a 38 if you want trail power. 36mm mikuni is what you want. Mikuni is super forgiving on the jets and the 36mm still give you good top end while not sacrificing bottom end like a 38 will.
See that is exactly what i have been told about going with the 38's..... it would be sacrificing the bottom end....quite a few people that has given their .02 on the subject said that the 38 would be sacrificing in the bottom which isnt good for what i want, trail all day every day!!Use a 36 mm.





but at the same time other guys said it worked great for them, tho i did not no what style of riding they were doing.Even if they were riding the exact same trail as you their opinion might be different because their performance preference might be different. It’s also possible that at least some of the people that suggested a 38 mm for trail riding have their bike geared lower than stock which would at least partially compensate for any noticeable loss of bottom end that using a 38 mm instead of a 36 mm might have caused.





but as for the mikuni your the first person i have come across to actually stand up for themYou now have 2. Mikuni's were also used on multi series 3 wheeler champion jimmy white's bike along with donnie luce's, chris white's and mine.

[TecateDan]

So I got a tecate 250 mostly stock. I've run MiK 34 and 36's and after two year of nothing but problems bought a kiehen 38mm AS and after that I threw out all my brand new Mik's and jets etc and will NEVER GO BACK. As for size the 35 is not a bad carb but I ride some super technical stuff and the 38 has alomsot no noticiable loss of power. Once you are doing anyhting over 3 mph it is better in every way. Below 3 mph the 36 is a tiny tiny bit better but once you run a 38 there is no going back

[El Camexican]

For trail riding I’d get something in 34-36mm range. As far as brands and style you may want to avoid carbs that have the air and idle adjustments on the same side as your pipe. Another thing you might want to consider is that the Mikuni VM carbs have paper base gaskets whereas new designs use reusable O-rings. Personally I prefer working on Keihin carbs, but there is nothing wrong with Mikuni’s, Bings or Amal carbs either if you want to be different.

[bigdaddyvw185]

Now when all this carb talk started i was pointed to the quad vent air striker series, is that what you have Dan? or did you go with the traditional air striker? i am going to be ridding up in MA on your home turf, (i am a big fan of pittsfield by the way) and would like to register up in NH this year so i can go with the group of you guys!. so ima make a guess and say that NH is just as technical if not more so than the trails in MA. As for the qaud vent version's, i am fairly sure that they are only available in the 35 and 38mm sizes.

El cameican, i have always had heihin carbs on all my toys, not by choice lol but because they all came factory with keihin's. So the keihins are my comfort zone as result. as far as sticking out and being different that is not really important to me i just would like to get the carb that is best suited for my situation. being user freindly is important also, so i have to look into what ya said about the idle / air adjustments on the exhaust side as that would be a pain.

All of this is great info guys keep it coming! thanks!

[TecateDan]

yup I got a 38AS on my 250 and a borred 40mm AS on my 500.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I'm not sure they make the Air Stryker version of the PWK in conventional 2 vent?? Pretty sure all Air Strykers are quad vent, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that.

It's the straight PWK (non-AS) that you can get with either 2-vent or quad vent.

I ran a PWK/AS 38mm on a stock liquid R with just reeds and pipe upgraded. It was not lacking for power down low. If your Fooler was not a 300, I might be thinking a 38 might be a little much given the riding style you are after. But since you are doing the 300, I would most likely go with the 38.

Just my opinion, take it for what ya paid for it! ;)

[bigdaddyvw185]

just looked that up on keihin, you are right that the air strikers are all quad vents Ride-Red, its the standard pwk's that are 2 vent. as for you running a 38 on your stock liquid and it performing well i dont see why a 38 would not work out well for my big bore but there is a guy over on foolers.com that has a 300 fooler and he ended up getting a 35 and says everything is working out great that is one of the big things that is keeping me with the 35, that and the fact that its going to be almost strictly a trail bike... but then again you running a 38 on a liguid 250 and it working well pulls me the other direction to go big with the 38..... i mean it is going to have a mild port job and the full DG exhuast... ughh this is stressin me out lol.

I also need to figure out what reed cage to get. i tried sending an E mail to mossbarger but the E mail they had posted in there contact section is not working...... then when i go to look up V force 3 cages they seem to be only listed for the liquid R's...... but i am fairly sure that the liquid R's have the same bolt pattern and can be used without issue on the foolers.?...... someone please correct me if i am wrong with that thought. if i cannot get in touch with mossbarger then the v force 3 cage is my second option, but then there are boyesen's.... i dno i am seriously about to just buy new reed pedals for my stock cage for this first go around....

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well, IMHO, the carb is just one component of many that contributes to the power curve characteristics of your engine. Maybe a 35-36 would be better suited to your build being that you are going for a trail port. I don't think its going to be an extreme night and day difference though.

You could always get a 36 and if you don't like it, get it bored to 38.....

That stock waterpumper I was running my 38 on was stock ported too. Only mods on that engine were the bolt-ons: FMF Fatty pipe and Powercore silencer, reedblock, CR head gasket mod. It had terrific mid-range but ran out of legs when getting to top. Probably due to the high compression setup with the thinner head gasket.

Oh, and I believe you can get a quad vent, non-AS PWK too. Been a little while since I looked at carbs lately... My next carb will be a 40.5 PWK for the big bore, and the 38 thats on the big bore now will go on my sleeper 250 ;)

[barnett468]

heres the east coast supplier for keihin pwj, pwm and pj carbs.

mikuni vm, tm, tmx, tms carbs.


http://www.carbparts.com/mikuni.html

[El Camexican]

Well, IMHO, the carb is just one component of many that contributes to the power curve characteristics of your engine. Maybe a 35-36 would be better suited to your build being that you are going for a trail port. I don't think its going to be an extreme night and day difference though.

You could always get a 36 and if you don't like it, get it bored to 38.....

That stock waterpumper I was running my 38 on was stock ported too. Only mods on that engine were the bolt-ons: FMF Fatty pipe and Powercore silencer, reedblock, CR head gasket mod. It had terrific mid-range but ran out of legs when getting to top. Probably due to the high compression setup with the thinner head gasket.

Oh, and I believe you can get a quad vent, non-AS PWK too. Been a little while since I looked at carbs lately... My next carb will be a 40.5 PWK for the big bore, and the 38 thats on the big bore now will go on my sleeper 250 ;)

I guess another thing to consider is that he could start with a 38 AS and if he didn't like it it would be easy enough to sell.:beer

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I guess another thing to consider is that he could start with a 38 AS and if he didn't like it it would be easy enough to sell.:beer

This is true. :)

[nicker71]

Yes the liquid R's vforce fit perfect on the 81-84 250r, that is what I use on mine. Getting an intake to fit a 38mm carb isn't easy to find either.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yes the liquid R's vforce fit perfect on the 81-84 250r, that is what I use on mine. Getting an intake to fit a 38mm carb isn't easy to find either.

Piece of cake with this.. http://www.eddie-sanders-racing.com/product_p/upp%20intake.htm

[barnett468]

Yes the liquid R's vforce fit perfect on the 81-84 250r, that is what I use on mine. Getting an intake to fit a 38mm carb isn't easy to find either.look at pages 220 thru 223. universal intakes are on 223m might be something there.

http://www.sudco.com/Catalog37PDF.pdf

[bigdaddyvw185]

Piece of cake with this.. http://www.eddie-sanders-racing.com/product_p/upp%20intake.htm

true, i thought about grabbing one of these also. BUT would the tilt from this intake for the liquid R's effect the ability to install the induction tubing to my intake box.?.... that was a major concern for me as i really want to run this with a box since it will be in the trails / water possibility's.... last thing i want to do is suck in some water and deal with that...

[RIDE-RED 250r]

true, i thought about grabbing one of these also. BUT would the tilt from this intake for the liquid R's effect the ability to install the induction tubing to my intake box.?.... that was a major concern for me as i really want to run this with a box since it will be in the trails / water possibility's.... last thing i want to do is suck in some water and deal with that...

That I am not sure of. I have one on my waterpumper and it works just like OEM to connect to the airbox. I am not sure if the Foolers had a different angle or not.

[bigdaddyvw185]

look at pages 220 thru 223. universal intakes are on 223m might be something there.

http://www.sudco.com/Catalog37PDF.pdf

thats a potential good situation you found right there barnett, i am wondering if this would work out from page 223
FL250 Odyssey 77-84 Rubber Flange M-VM-36-200K 36, 38 each 002-054
too bad they didnt have a darn picture of it, i no the fl350 intakes are direct swap for the fooler's but i dont no about the fl250's
also on the next page there are the UPP intakes available on page 224, but they are for the liquid R's and again the question of the tilt in the manifold comes into question?....
ATC250R 85-86 PWK 38 - 39mm each 005-831

I actually sent an E mail to UPP directly, according to there website they can make custom pieces. i wanted to see if they could make me a custom intake for the 81-84 for a 35-38MM a couple days back but i have not heard back from them as of today. if i dont here from them by Monday i am going to call them directly and see if they can make me one. they say they can make custom pieces soooo..... i even said in my e mail that if needed i could send them the stock intake that i have so they have it as a refferance while building the larger one for the 35-38.... but of course i have yet to here from them..

[bigdaddyvw185]

That I am not sure of. I have one on my waterpumper and it works just like OEM to connect to the airbox. I am not sure if the Foolers had a different angle or not.

the foolers are straight out from the engine, NO angle what so ever. so that has the potential to be a serious problem! lol.....

[RIDE-RED 250r]

the foolers are straight out from the engine, NO angle what so ever. so that has the potential to be a serious problem! lol.....

That being the case I agree and would not use the intake I posted the link to

[bigdaddyvw185]

:beer we are thinking alike, that would have been a sweet solution tho ill tell ya! lol. i needa get in touch with UPP industries directly and see if they can make me a custom one for the fooler's.

here is the link for there custom area, not alot to see but hey...
http://www.uppracing.com/index.php?cid=119

[nicker71]

Here is mossenbergs number. Someome from airfoolers.com gave this too me. They supposedly still make a intake, I ended up finding a old old school one for my 38mm carb so I never gave the number a shot.

(856)435-1977 they are out of new jersey

Let us know if it works

[bigdaddyvw185]

thanks!, i will give them a call on monday. that would be sweet if i could get an intake and a reed kit, hopefully it works out.

[bigdaddyvw185]

well i am making the trip to Ken's shop to bring him up this engine this morning!! going up with a nice bundle of new parts,hot rods kit, new cylinder,piston, hardware, bearings, seals. pretty excited to see it come back and looking all brand new!. although it is going to be a hurry up and wait situation, he will have it for at least until the end of Janurary if not into February.

[bigdaddyvw185]

Well I made the trip up to Ken's shop this afternoon and dropped him off the goods, we got to talking about what is to be done and such, He said he had 5 engines in line before my engine BUT cannot work on any of them because he is waiting for parts to come in on all 5 of them!. So to my surprise he said he will start right in on my engine tomorrow!, he also said he will have it ready to be picked up by friday or monday at the latest! :w00t: and ontop of it all after looking at the components i brought up like the new cylinder as an example he gave me a total less than what he even quoted me for. I was like well hot damn lol i guess it was meant to be with me bringing it up this morning!

[Bren_downe]

Early Christmas for you dude!! Ken sounds like a nice guy. I like the videos on his website. Maybe you can get in some ice racing!

[bigdaddyvw185]

my birthday is December 22, So this is an awesome birthday / Christmas present! :D
Ken is a really nice guy, i stressed to him the fact that i didnt want a crazy port job and to just clean it up to his comfort level lol. he was breaking my stones on it lol he was like relax its in good hands. very knowledgeable on the subject way more so than me, so i feel its in good hands.
He actually advised me against running it in the cold temps as i would run the risk of cold seizing the engine up. which is something that i would NOT want to do. actually 3 of the 5 engines that were in the shop that he is waiting to get parts for were blaster engine and in for cold seizing issues while ice racing..... So once he said that i was like nope i dont want to have to deal with that lol...

[HondaRidr]

If you have a forged piston you need to let the engine get nice and warmed up before you rip on it to avoid cold seizing it.

[Bren_downe]

I can't blame ya on that, protect your investment. I'm looking forward to seeing pics.

[barnett468]

He actually advised me against running it in the cold temps as i would run the risk of cold seizing the engine up. which is something that i would NOT want to do. actually 3 of the 5 engines that were in the shop that he is waiting to get parts for were blaster engine and in for cold seizing issues while ice racing..... So once he said that i was like nope i dont want to have to deal with that lol...


Hi bigdaddy;


Don't know why I feel a little weird saying that to a guy, lol.

Congrats on your good fortune with your engine builder and happy b day and merry holidays.



I would be interested in knowing exactly what conditions these seizures are occurring under just for interests sake.

I posted the following for you since it sounds like you are concerned about cold seizing your engine and simply thought it might be interesting to you. I apologize in advance for posting info you didn't request.

One way to reduce seizures of all kinds is to use a super high quality 2 stroke oil. The much venerated Klotz Super Techniplate is a good oil, but not nearly as good as the ones professionals use in engines that are operated at high rpm’s for extended periods of time such as go cart racers and road racers.

Unfortunately, these “super” oils have 2 major draw backs, which are, high cost, and the fact that they tend to crud up the spark plug if an engine is run at around 3500 rpm or less for very long.

In other words, they are good for racing but not good for trail riding.

Even though the "great" oils are expensive, the additional cost seems to be offset by the added protection they provide to those that can use them.

Another thing a lot of people don’t realize is that the higher the rpm, the richer your oil gas/ratio needs to be.

Along with that, in general, just because on oil mfg. says you can run their oil at 80:1, you simply can’t.

All that being said, another way to reduce the potential for any type of seizures is to simply run a "rich" oil/gas ratio. The recommended ratio on an 84 250r is 20:1. In general this is considered a "rich" mixture and is what the factory Kawi MX team used to run using factory Kawi oil.

If you run any of the "'good" oils like Klotz or Maxima 927, one rule of thumb that is accepted by some, is to run around 32:1 for engines that typically run at "lower" rpm’s for the most part, with occasional high rpm burst’s, and 20:1 for most mx, desert and other similar racing apps.

Even though you might hear people say this is "hogwash" and that they run their bike WOT in the dunes all day at 32:1 or leaner and have never seized it, it does not negate the fact that the richer your oil/gas mix is, the more resistant to seizure your engine becomes.

If the oil/gas ratio becomes too rich, your fuel simply won't ignite with enough power to start your bike if it even ignites at all. Once this point is reached, I can guarantee you with 100% confidence that your piston will never, ever seize...ever......never.

I would suggest that if you do want to run it leaner than the factory recommended 20:1, that you do not go leaner than 28:1 for general trail riding. Other opinions will vary.

Some of the racing go carts mix at 15:1.



There are dozens of articles online regarding seizures. The one in the link I posted below is one of the ones I like and think covers a lot if bases in one brief article. Harry Klemm also has some good info on his site.

http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-21089.html

:Bounce

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Just for the record, cold sieze can occur in warm weather as well.

Make sure your jetting is dialed in proper and always allow ample time for the engine to warm up before slapping the happy-lever too hard.

And as previously mentioned, select and oil and premix ratio you want to run and stick with it. Tons and tons of opinions on oil so I'm not going to go there. ;)

[bigdaddyvw185]

well for the pre mix, i was told 32:1 was a good suggestion, tho when i go and pick the engine up from ken i will for sure see what he tells me. As for the oil, i was directed to blue marble oil. obviously i have yet to use it but i did go out and buy a gallon of it for when the time comes. but yea the oil suggestion / ratio topic i am sure can be quite extensive. i was suggested blue marble by another member so thats what i went with...
as far as the engine brake in is concerned, Ken told me to bring it up to 200 degrees and shut it down let it cool to ambeiant temperature, then repeat the process 4 times total. and while bringing it up to temperature to vary the throttle, not to just let it idle but on the other side of the coin not to race it ether, just a mild range threw the rpm's until its up to about 200 degrees.

i hesitate to ask lol, but Ride - Red, what are you using for oil? your in my kneck of the woods so we deal with fairly close to the same conditions.

[JasonB]

i like klotz techniplate. when you mix it with 93 octane or race gas it smells sweet like perfume almost. i love the stuff, theres two gallons of it sitting on my work bench at home waiting for the 500 and 310's. I run 40:1 and jet accordingly. And like Barnet and Ride-Red said; you wont seize it if you jet right. Cold Seizes happen in any weather, just depends on if you romp on the motor before the cylinder warms up. Cold Seizes happen because the piston warms up faster than the sleeve and actually lock up in the cylinder. You can seize an engine up from poor jetting though, just not technically considered a cold seize. I always used to wonder how the guys that ice race got away with it, they just jet accordingly. no way they can go rip around an iced lake like they do over and over again. air coolers and water pumpers are the same, just jet for the conditions.

[barnett468]

well for the pre mix, i was told 32:1 was a good suggestion, tho when i go and pick the engine up from ken i will for sure see what he tells. i was suggested blue marble by another member so thats what i went with...

Blue Marble is a mineral oil as opposed to a castor bean oil. They suggest some special instructions prior to use. I don't think they are on the bottle so I posted the link to them below in case you were unaware of them.

This process can increase piston ring seating time. Your builder will have the best suggestions for you.

http://www.bluemarbleoil.com/Products/2Cycle.htm

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well since you asked, I'll tell you what I run.

My 350r is set up for 108 octane minimum per ESR's specs (the maker of the big bore cylinder kit). I run 110 octane at a ratio of 32:1 with Maxima 927 Castor. It is available locally near me for the most part, but I order it by the half gallon from Rocky Mountain ATV. They sell a half gallon for just a few bucks more than the shop near me sells a liter for (which is just an ounce or so over a quart).

My 250r is mainly stock with simple bolt-ons. Due to the fact my OEM Honda shop manual calls for 92-100 octane in a bone stock engine, I run a blend of 60% 91 octane with no ethanol and 40% 110 octane. I run that at 32:1 with Maxima 927 Castor as well.

The only thing to be careful about from what I researched about the castor oils is using it at low temperature. Pretty sure they even post a warning on the oil bottle as well. So do your research. I don't run my R's in winter, they are summer toys for me, so the cold temp issues with the castor based oil is a non-issue for me.

[bigdaddyvw185]

Well hit a small setback with the engine today, got a call from ken this morning telling me i needed to order some parts (if i could find them) He thought they were too far gone and wanted to replace them but good thing is that these parts are the only things he found that needed to be replaced so thats a good thing!. so here is the list of Part numbers that he gave me
clutch pressure plate - 22351-430-000
clutch inner hub - 22120-961-000
Clutch lock washer - 90461-961-000
Thrust washer B 22MM - 90455-ML7-000
Circlip (outer) 24mm - 94510-24000
Thrust washer 22mm - 90450-961-000
washer (24X36) - 90459-430-000
Counter shaft collor - 23225-430-000

I was able to find everything else from various places around the country, the thrust washer (22mm) - 90450-961-000 is coming all the way from freakin alaska! that was the only place i was able to find one lol. then the Washer (24X36) - 90459-430-000 came from Missouri, then the countershaft collor (22mm) - 23225-430-000 came from Massachusetts. and the pressure plate - 22351-430-000 and lock washer - 90461-961-000 came from Michigan. then the thrust washer B (22mm) - 90455-ML7-000 and Circlip (24mm) -94510-24000 just came from hondapartsnation.com.

only thing i couldnt find new was the clutch inner hub - 22120-961-000, so i had to sacrifice the one from the spare 250R engine i got with a parts bike, so i stripped that off and got it in the mail to him this afternoon. more likely than not this will push the pickup / finish date back a couple days if not more. but that is what it is, it could be worse...... could have gone without finding anything new available.

the saga continues...:beer

[barnett468]

only thing i couldnt find new was the clutch inner hub - 22120-961-000,

Here’s a new one $50.00

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/CENTER-CLUTCH-HUB-TO-FIT-1981-84-HONDA-ATC-250R-/261263848896

same guy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CENTER-CLUTCH-HUB-TO-FIT-1981-84-HONDA-ATC-250R-/261263848896#ht_82wt_910


They might have one here, call.

http://www.westernhonda.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2568542&category=ATVs&make=HONDA&year=1981&fveh=132991

[bigdaddyvw185]

i actually saw this clutch center on ebay shortly after i sent my center out to him! lol. figures right....
thanks for the tip for the dealer, always glad to take any tips for dealers that could potentially have parts. i have gathered quite a list threwout this entire process and will gladly add this one you suggested to it.

also got some pictures of the progress on the gas tank today, its looking pretty!
182585182586182587

[barnett468]

[QUOTE=bigdaddyvw185;1272634]thanks for the tip for the dealer, always glad to take any tips for dealers that could potentially have parts.



Below are three of the biggest discontinued oem parts stocking dealers in the world. Most other oem "suppliers" typically buy from one of these here once orders come in then resell them to the one that ordered them. I thought I posted them much earlier for you but can't remember.

cmsnl.com

partzilla.com

xtremeusa.com


Hope your holidays are safe and fun.

Your paint work looks very nice.

:Bounce

[djm0242]

You can also try Partzilla too if you haven't already. :)

[bigdaddyvw185]

You can also try Partzilla too if you haven't already. :)

that was one of the the first places i tried, they only had 2 of the 8 things i needed, the idle gear cir clip - 23225-430-000, and the washer (B 22mm) - 90455-ML7-000.

[Daddio]

This is the first I've seen of this thread. I read through it quickly so if I missed something, forgive me.
You are correct in the fact that an fl350 intake boot would be a direct bolt on. It would be your best bet. I know for a fact that the 38 air striker will fit on it nicely. There will, however, be an issue with the throttle cable clearing the frame. You will eventually encounter this. The next thing you will encounter is that the airbox will not fit with this combination without some serious modification if at all.
If this is your first 2stroke, you may want to read as much as you can tolerate about 2stroke tuning / jetting. It might save you several expensive trips to your engine builder.
I would also recommend using more oil rather than less. I wouldn't use any less than 32-1 and when you finally decide on the type and brand of oil and the mixture....stick with it. After you have that all figured out it should be safe to tune it. With a 2stroke , any time you change something, you will probably have to mess with the jets or maybe a carb adjustment. They are a blast but they do take just a little more work.
Something else I didn't see mentioned was tire size and type and gearing. I'm sure that is something that will come up also and that along with jetting etc. is all part of the tuning process.

I've seen plenty of guys over the years throw gobs of money and put tons of effort into their 250Rs and in theory they should be the biggest and baddest one out there only to be giver up on because the owner was never able to get everything dialed in properly and they either ruin a perfectly good top end or they just don't run worth a crap.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage you on this build. It's just that I know what these machines are capable of, when properly set up. It just takes a little more effort in the set-up and tuning than some people are willing to put into it.

This is my sons 84 300R. He built it when he was in his mid 20s. I believe it was finished in 2008. I'm not sure if you have ever seen it or heard about it before but I know there some guys on this forum that have and some that have raced against it. Every detail was gone over and over and over before it reached this point. We spent countless hours bouncing ideas back and forth and watching videos of it in action in the process. The only mechanical failure it has had since it was finished was a broken clutch cable.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/lrdunlap/100_0510.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/lrdunlap/media/100_0510.jpg.html)

[JasonB]

I can personally say that Hartley's (Daddio's son) 300R bike has beaten not only my 300r but any other bike I raced him on. over and over again lol. that bike was mean! Really well put together, you two knew what it took to build a runner

[bigdaddyvw185]

Not going to lie, i am nervous as all hell about the tuning process. and yes it is my first 2 stroke which makes me even more nervous.... i am down right horrified lol.... i am not planning on running it until the spring time when temps get warmer, and so i can read as much as possible on the jetting / tuning process. last thing i wanna do is rush into it and have it end bad... i am working on having my builder walk me threw the process of tuning, i even talked with him about bringing the trike back up to him in the spring time to assist in the initial start up and tune.... i have done research on tuning but i am not about to even say that i am even remotely comfortable with the process....i am much more comfortable with 4 strokes. I am almost positive i have seen your sons trike before daddio, by chance is you and your sons trike on the Flotek website, i am almost positive that is where i saw it. awesome trike by the way!

i wish i even knew someone nearby me that has owned a 2 stroke for a long period of time that i could turn to for help when the time comes to tune. i just need to keep reading up on the subject!

[JasonB]

Here's a shot of my 300r with Hartleys 4snows on it at tf2008 since we are posting 300's in here lol Hartley was awesome enough to let me borrow his mid drag race so I could race!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/sleepin-mr2/FCB15DF5-352E-4D36-8DC0-44775F94A8E4_zpspbohh4yw.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/sleepin-mr2/media/FCB15DF5-352E-4D36-8DC0-44775F94A8E4_zpspbohh4yw.jpg.html)

[JasonB]

http://www.edj.net/2stroke/jennings/2stroketunershandbook.pdf

[JasonB]

http://www.jetsrus.com/FAQs/FAQ_rejetting_101_how_to_rejet.htm

Get reading! These things have helped me learn a little, the basics is a big part.

[bigdaddyvw185]

http://www.edj.net/2stroke/jennings/2stroketunershandbook.pdf

thanks man! I saved it to my computer, now i need to figure out how to rotate it so i can read it without have to tilt my head lol. easy enough, saved it to my documents and rotated that bad boy

[JasonB]

print that trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro off and go read on the couch lol

[JasonB]

http://www.bannedcr500riders.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=203

here is an exellent one. I would recommend you START here. its from the cr500 boards, but its universal and not cr5 centric. go get reading! I read this one over and over, it covers everything you really need to know for any carb tunning

**EDIT sorry for whoring up your thread lol. Jetsrus.com is where i get my jets and needles from, just go buy a handful of sizes up and down from your projected setting so you can tinker. thiat is the fun part!

[bigdaddyvw185]

thanks jason, will be reading!!

got the gas tank all finished up this afternoon
182610182611

[Daddio]

Not going to lie, i am nervous as all hell about the tuning process. and yes it is my first 2 stroke which makes me even more nervous.... i am down right horrified lol.... i am not planning on running it until the spring time when temps get warmer, and so i can read as much as possible on the jetting / tuning process. last thing i wanna do is rush into it and have it end bad... i am working on having my builder walk me threw the process of tuning, i even talked with him about bringing the trike back up to him in the spring time to assist in the initial start up and tune.... i have done research on tuning but i am not about to even say that i am even remotely comfortable with the process....i am much more comfortable with 4 strokes. I am almost positive i have seen your sons trike before daddio, by chance is you and your sons trike on the Flotek website, i am almost positive that is where i saw it. awesome trike by the way!

i wish i even knew someone nearby me that has owned a 2 stroke for a long period of time that i could turn to for help when the time comes to tune. i just need to keep reading up on the subject!
Yes. That is the one. I think that was in 08. He raced all summer that year and by the end of the year we had everything on that thing dialed in, including him. The following year it was a real hand full.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Daddio: That is ONE SWEET AIR-HAMMER! Very nice! :beer

Now knock it off guys! You are all getting me wanting one BADLY! LOL! ;)

[El Camexican]

Not going to lie, i am nervous as all hell about the tuning process. and yes it is my first 2 stroke which makes me even more nervous.... i am down right horrified lol.... i am not planning on running it until the spring time when temps get warmer, and so i can read as much as possible on the jetting / tuning process. last thing i wanna do is rush into it and have it end bad... i am working on having my builder walk me threw the process of tuning, i even talked with him about bringing the trike back up to him in the spring time to assist in the initial start up and tune.... i have done research on tuning but i am not about to even say that i am even remotely comfortable with the process....i am much more comfortable with 4 strokes. I am almost positive i have seen your sons trike before daddio, by chance is you and your sons trike on the Flotek website, i am almost positive that is where i saw it. awesome trike by the way!

i wish i even knew someone nearby me that has owned a 2 stroke for a long period of time that i could turn to for help when the time comes to tune. i just need to keep reading up on the subject!

I just posted this for you. http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/163528-Jetting-38mm-Keihin-PWK-Air-Striker-Carburetors-250-300-Two-Stroke?p=1272867#post1272867 I hope it helps you get that beast up and running.

[bigdaddyvw185]

Daddio: That is ONE SWEET AIR-HAMMER! Very nice! :beer

Now knock it off guys! You are all getting me wanting one BADLY! LOL! ;)


Get that CR125 moving on craigslist :naughty:, repost that bad boy lol.

[bigdaddyvw185]

I just posted this for you. http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/163528-Jetting-38mm-Keihin-PWK-Air-Striker-Carburetors-250-300-Two-Stroke?p=1272867#post1272867 I hope it helps you get that beast up and running.

Thanks!!!!!

that was a hell of a write up!! cannot thank you enough.

[bigdaddyvw185]

Well i am going to pickup the engine tomorrow morning!:w00t: Ken called me this afternoon and said it was good to go. cannot wait to see it!!

[bigdaddyvw185]

the engine looks great! ill tell ya it was great to walk into his shop and to see it assembled for the first time.
183039183040183041183042

[slashfan7964]

Now you just have to file off some of the paint on the cooling fins :D

[bigdaddyvw185]

got the engine bolted up this afternoon, now i just need to get my hands on a carburetor
183077183078183079

[JasonB]

Looking awesome man! So close

[bigdaddyvw185]

i just want to be sure, Can a stock throttle cable be used with a 35 PWK carb? i am pretty sure that i heard a stock cable cannot be used... i am looking to get a new cable and carburetor as a bundle any suggestions on a place to get both besides ebay?
Jets R us has the carb for 186.15, which is good but i am not sure if i can get a cable form them also.

[yaegerb]

so are you settling on a 35MM? I know its ebay, but this is the most competitive price I could find for my 38MM with cable and it comes pre-jetted...(you call the company to get it set up..really nice guy that runs this shop). I still think you should go with 38

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keihin-PWK-38mm-Airstriker-carb-Honda-CR250-01-07-/331100780274?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d1724f6f2&vxp=mtr

P.S. I love the work so far. Very nice indeed!

[bigdaddyvw185]

i am still sitting on the fence as far as it comes to size..... tho it is getting down to the wire and i need to make a choice soon. considering the trail port work on the cylinder and all there are more guys suggesting the 38 over the 35. so the 38 may very well be the choice that i go with. way i look at it is if the 38 doesnt work out i could just sell it in the classifieds. its just the talk of the 38 lacking in the low end that keeps me from not springing on it. As the low end is what i am looking for more so than top end being a trail bike. but then again guys running 38's on 250's is a little encouraging that it would be well fit for my situation.

thanks for the tip on the ebay bundle, thats the best price i have seen yet.

[yaegerb]

Lacking in the low end? I don't know about that. My R with the 38 has as much power down low as the stocker did. Where the 38 is going to shine is up top...night and day difference. My opinion is once get it dialed in, you won't go back.

[bigdaddyvw185]

well what the heck im going to pull the trigger on the 38 and be done with it. their is just too much support for the 38 to turn my back on it.

[yaegerb]

well what the heck im going to pull the trigger on the 38 and be done with it. their is just too much support for the 38 to turn my back on it.

Glad to hear it!

[barnett468]

i am still sitting on the fence as far as it comes to size.

well what the heck im going to pull the trigger on the 38 and be done with it. their is just too much support for the 38 to turn my back on it.
Hello bigdaddy;


On a naturally aspirated engine, the engine alone controls how much air it will accept at any given rpm.

The main reason a smaller carb will provide more bottom end than one that is bigger than an engine needs, is simply because few riders rarely roll the throttle on slowly. It is frequently wide open or closed.

When a rider quickly opens the throttle all the way at mid rpm and lower, in general, the engine still sucks almost, if not the exact same amount of air in as it would with a smaller carb but it will not suck in more with the bigger carb. This might cause one to think the engine would still have the same amount of power down low with a 42 mm as it would with a 32 mm. It will actually have less. This is partially due to the poorer atomization of the fuel caused by the lower air velocity/speed.

The velocity becomes lower the more the tube/bore size of the carb is increased. The larger the tube is, the more air it will flow for any given velocity.

If a rider had a carb that was way bigger than the engine could use at peak rpm, in general, the eng would still have the same bottom end performance as a smaller carb up until the point where the throttle slide was opened to a point where the venturi/bore size was larger than the venturi/bore size of the smaller carb.

In reality, you could put a 72 mm carb on it and set the throttle so it only opens 1/2 way which will make it a 36 mm carb. Doing this, will in general, cause it to perform like a 36 mm carb at the same throttle slide openings but not necessarily at the same throttle position on the bars unless it is set up to do so.

In general, the bottom line is, if you get a 38, 39 or 40 mm etc., and think it’s too big, just don’t open the throttle all the way and you will in effect have a smaller carb.



2 STAGE REEDS - If you don’t have these I suggest you get them or ask your engine builder about them.

One of the purposes of dual stage reeds is to improve a 2 strokes performance at low rpm’s without sacrificing top end power.

One of ways two stage reeds improve power over a wider range than a single stage reed is by increasing air velocity at low rpm’s.

[El Camexican]

In reality, you could put a 72 mm carb on it and set the throttle so it only opens 1/2 way which will make it a 36 mm carb. Doing this, will in general, cause it to perform like a 36 mm carb at the same throttle slide openings but not necessarily at the same throttle position on the bars unless it is set up to do so.
A little 6th grade math for the Kawasaki engineer… The surface area of the throat of a 36mm carburetor is 1017.87mm. The area of a 72mm carburetor is 4,071.50mm. Therefore it would stand to reason that if one were to open said 72mm carburetor half way that it would offer a surface area of 2,035.75mm, or an area equivalent to that of a wide open 50mm carburetor, would it not?


In general, the bottom line is, if you get a 38, 39 or 40 mm etc., and think it’s too big, just don’t open the throttle all the way and you will in effect have a smaller carb.

I should add to this that when a carburetor is too large for a specific engine it won’t create enough negative pressure in the throat of the carburetor to allow fuel to come up from the bowl, creating a lean condition. To try and operate a vehicle with an abnormally oversized carburetor by only opening it partially as this poster seems to be suggesting would be asinine.

[barnett468]

Hello bigdaddyvw185;


I hope your holidays were good.


A small group of people “attempt” to berate me at every opportunity they get for making posts that they consider overly lengthy and/or overly detailed. Unfortunately, you might see more of those types of posts on your thread. My previous post was just a general example to give you a little info on carbs since you were asking for info on them. I wanted to keep it fairly simple and therefore simply felt no need to clutter up a page with calculations like PI X R2 and E = MC2 etc..


My comment about a 72 mm carb in effect becoming a 36 mm carb if opened only half way was merely intended to be a general example and not an exact number. Since imo, one person seems to be unhappy with my generalization, in the interest of accuracy, I will supply a much more accurate estimate for the size which is 50.92 mm, not a 50.0 mm as stated by another or the 72 mm size stated by me.


I calculated the 50.92 number in my head, therefore, unfortunately, it still might be off by around .0001 mm or so either way. The member that seemed to take exception to my post might voluntarily calculate the number to its final digit for you.





To try and operate a vehicle with an abnormally oversized carburetor by only opening it partially as this poster seems to be suggesting would be asinine.I never suggested that anyone do this as a matter of common practice. Imo, as this particular person occasionally does, they are "attempting" to twist my comments around and make unwarranted abrasive comments to, or about me, simply to serve their own agenda.




The quote posted below is inaccurate due to what imo, is its ambiguousness which is “created” by its lack of detailed information.


I should add to this that when a carburetor is too large for a specific engine it won’t create enough negative pressure in the throat of the carburetor to allow fuel to come up from the bowl, creating a lean condition.

My interpretation of said quote, is that the author is suggesting/implying that running a carburetor that is too “big” for a given engine will cause it to go so lean that one’s engine might become damaged. Since this is not necessarily the case, imo, for the benefit of at least this person, it appears that another brief physics lesson is required.


Since as I previously mentioned, I feel it is unnecessary to fill the page with a bunch of numbers, I will once again simplify and generalize my comments.


There are several ways to say the following, I have only mentioned a few.


All carburetors need to be PROPERLY jetted irregardless of their size. For all intents and purposes any carburetor can be jetted to avoid a dangerously lean condition, it’s simple physics. I should also hope that it is unnecessary to say that a 70 mm carburetor is too big for a 250 cc engine.


When a carb is too “big” for an engine, it will, in general, have no adverse effect on idle. This is because the throttle is closed and one can typically set it to flow exactly the same amount of air as a smaller carb at this speed.


A large carburetor will only affect performance differently than a smaller carb once its throttle slide/butterfly etc. is opened to a point where its area [the amount of air it is capable of flowing] is greater than the maximum area of a given smaller carb when its throttle slide/butterfly etc. is opened to its limit. This is one of the points I was trying to express in my previous post.


To determine/calculate what the optimal size carb for ones engine is, one of the factors they would need to know is the volumetric efficiency of their particular engine.




PS – Bigdaddyvw185, although, my understanding of your question is that you are not looking for info on how pressure waves, elevation, air density and humidity, etc. affect carburetion, I apologize for not posting this info for those that might have had an interest in it. Perhaps the author of the quotes above would like to accurately explain their effects in detail if they are able to.

[El Camexican]

Hello bigdaddyvw185;


I hope your holidays were good.


A small group of people “attempt” to berate me at every opportunity they get for making posts that they consider overly lengthy and/or overly detailed. Unfortunately, you might see more of those types of posts on your thread. My previous post was just a general example to give you a little info on carbs since you were asking for info on them. I wanted to keep it fairly simple and therefore simply felt no need to clutter up a page with calculations like PI X R2 and E = MC2 etc..


My comment about a 72 mm carb in effect becoming a 36 mm carb if opened only half way was merely intended to be a general example and not an exact number. Since imo, one person seems to be unhappy with my generalization, in the interest of accuracy, I will supply a much more accurate estimate for the size which is 50.92 mm, not a 50.0 mm as stated by another or the 72 mm size stated by me.


I calculated the 50.92 number in my head, therefore, unfortunately, it still might be off by around .0001 mm or so either way. The member that seemed to take exception to my post might voluntarily calculate the number to its final digit for you.




I never suggested that anyone do this as a matter of common practice. Imo, as this particular person occasionally does, they are "attempting" to twist my comments around and make unwarranted abrasive comments to, or about me, simply to serve their own agenda.




The quote posted below is inaccurate due to what imo, is its ambiguousness which is “created” by its lack of detailed information.



My interpretation of said quote, is that the author is suggesting/implying that running a carburetor that is too “big” for a given engine will cause it to go so lean that one’s engine might become damaged. Since this is not necessarily the case, imo, for the benefit of at least this person, it appears that another brief physics lesson is required.


Since as I previously mentioned, I feel it is unnecessary to fill the page with a bunch of numbers, I will once again simplify and generalize my comments.


There are several ways to say the following, I have only mentioned a few.


All carburetors need to be PROPERLY jetted irregardless of their size. For all intents and purposes any carburetor can be jetted to avoid a dangerously lean condition, it’s simple physics. I should also hope that it is unnecessary to say that a 70 mm carburetor is too big for a 250 cc engine.


When a carb is too “big” for an engine, it will, in general, have no adverse effect on idle. This is because the throttle is closed and one can typically set it to flow exactly the same amount of air as a smaller carb at this speed.


A large carburetor will only affect performance differently than a smaller carb once its throttle slide/butterfly etc. is opened to a point where its area [the amount of air it is capable of flowing] is greater than the maximum area of a given smaller carb when its throttle slide/butterfly etc. is opened to its limit. This is one of the points I was trying to express in my previous post.


To determine/calculate what the optimal size carb for ones engine is, one of the factors they would need to know is the volumetric efficiency of their particular engine.




PS – Bigdaddyvw185, although, my understanding of your question is that you are not looking for info on how pressure waves, elevation, air density and humidity, etc. affect carburetion, I apologize for not posting this info for those that might have had an interest in it. Perhaps the author of the quotes above would like to accurately explain their effects in detail if they are able to.

If you are going to make absolute statements like “in reality” and “it will” and then use examples that are almost 100% off the mark then perhaps you should consider using model verbs to allow for the gross miscalculations in your comments.

As far as belittling, or berating your posts need I remind you of how many times you have defended your erroneous posts with claims of being an “engineer”, or “dealing only in facts”? If you’re going to come on here and sing a song at least learn the words before you ask others to clap and dance and to it.


Bigdaddy, sorry to have messed up your thread. I'm sure your 38mm will work great.

[bigdaddyvw185]

It is what it is guys, tho we all should just get along here, sometimes it just does not work out like that lol.

On a different note,
reading back over the previous posts about the PWK carb swap, id like to see if any more information could be brought up about what Daddio said about the throttle cable having clearance issues with the down tube of the frame. the information i was able to dig up involved people cutting holes into the frame and then intern running the throttle cable down threw the main tube of the frame and out right above the carb.
then the second solution to this clearance problem was to install something like this,
http://www.jetsrus.com/individual_parts/007_731_su.html
according to jetsRus this 90 degree bend will fit on all Keihin and Mikuni carburetor caps, here is another link that give a little bit more info, its at the bottom of the page. http://www.jetsrus.com/carburetor/carb_keihin_PJ_series.html

can anyone who has dealt with this chime in and give some info on how the clearance issue turned out for you? thanks

[JasonB]

These are what i run, they have the bend in them already. i believe they clear the frame on the foolers, i was always close with mine it was a royal PITA to the the top of the carb off to pull the slide so I could clock the carb to check out the pilot and main jets. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-Thumb-Throttle-Cable-Keihin-TRX250R-ATC250R-TRX250-TRX-ATC-250R-250-R-/201004240566

[JasonB]

01-0604 part number for that motion pro throttle cable incase you want to do some shopping around.

[barnett468]

Hello bigdaddyvw185;



You can also call Sudco to see if they have anything.

http://www.sudco.com/CatalogPDF.html




Post 137.

A small group of people “attempt” to berate me at every opportunity they get for making posts that they consider overly lengthy and/or overly detailed. Unfortunately, you might see more of those types of posts on your thread.
Post 138.

If you are going to make absolute statements like “in reality” and “it will” and then use examples that are almost 100% off the mark then perhaps you should consider using model verbs to allow for the gross miscalculations in your comments.

As far as belittling, or berating your posts need I remind you of how many times you have defended your erroneous posts with claims of being an “engineer”, or “dealing only in facts”? If you’re going to come on here and sing a song at least learn the words before you ask others to clap and dance and to it. Looks like I was right.





Imo, the above person, has at the very least, done the following things on your thread:


Made unwarranted, abrasive comments, to and about me, even after the quote below was posted on another thread by one of the sites overseers a few weeks ago which they must have seen since they posted on the same thread just before and after it.

Billy was also thanked by the following members for his post quoted below, kebby28, dougspcs, hatc200x1, and manbearpig.


Guys, easy up here a bit. Mr. barnett strikes me as the odd type a bit, for sure, and I don't see any serious name calling or denigrating stuff here in this thread technically, but does it make a good impression for other people reading it?

Obviously hijacked your thread to use for his own agenda.

Obviously tried to twist my words to make it look like I am wrong and they are right.

Obviously make inaccurate [erroneous] statements as evidenced by their posts on your thread.

Obviously complained about my posts but refuses to use the sites “ignore” button for some unknown reason.

Disrupted your thread.




Imo they also frequently won't stop making these types of negative posts until they feel like they have the upper hand and had the last word, just watch.

Imo they also appear to become agitated when I am thanked by others for my posts, which happens frequently, just put my name in the search engine and see.




Below are just 2 pm’s I received in the last week from other members. I removed the names of the senders so people like the one above cannot badger and berate them for saying what they think.


Hey Barnett468,

I just wanted to send a PM and say thanks for your information in my thread about "…………….". I liked your info and am taking your advice as much as possible.

I'm just sending this because I was reading on another thread and saw some very negative comments towards you and feel that they were a bit out of line.

I just wanted to say thank you. I hope you have a very nice Christmas!



Hey how's it going barnett.

I just wanted to thank you for all the help and advice you have given the community at 3ww.

I know i have been missing from this site and have focused on other areas of my life, but I really hope to get back into the sport as soon as time permits.

Once again thank you for everything. Your words are much appreciated.







If you’re going to come on here and sing a song at least learn the words before you ask others to clap and dance and to it.

I don’t have a clue what this means, lol.

[El Camexican]

Sorry Bigdaddy, we have to share the forums with people that have, well, let’s just call them issues. I won’t respond to the babble above and mess your thread up anymore, but I can’t promise the same of others.

Or the babble 3 posts below...

[stroberts22]

It is what it is guys, tho we all should just get along here, sometimes it just does not work out like that lol.

On a different note,
reading back over the previous posts about the PWK carb swap, id like to see if any more information could be brought up about what Daddio said about the throttle cable having clearance issues with the down tube of the frame. the information i was able to dig up involved people cutting holes into the frame and then intern running the throttle cable down threw the main tube of the frame and out right above the carb.
then the second solution to this clearance problem was to install something like this,
http://www.jetsrus.com/individual_parts/007_731_su.html
according to jetsRus this 90 degree bend will fit on all Keihin and Mikuni carburetor caps, here is another link that give a little bit more info, its at the bottom of the page. http://www.jetsrus.com/carburetor/carb_keihin_PJ_series.html

can anyone who has dealt with this chime in and give some info on how the clearance issue turned out for you? thanks
I run a 39 pwk similar to Hartley's 300r on my 84 and had no problems with the cable interfering with the down tube and binding but I can see where it could be a problem. The top of the carb is right under the tube.

[bigdaddyvw185]

I am not here to start drama, or any other nonsense....:crazy: That being said....I welcome any help / suggestions that i can get... Especially with this build god knows i could use it, I new nothing of 2 strokes back when this build first started and i would not have it in its current condition without the help of the fellow members on these boards....without a doubt...iv learned everything i no on the subject from these forums!... now without kicking dirt on Anyone's feet... can we please keep this kinda stuff to a minimum. i have kept my nose out of the drama for good reason, As this is not what we should be here for. We are all here for the love of our trikes.

lol i dont no how else to say it... So with that being said lets just keep it civil and keep it to the point of helping each other out...

[barnett468]

Hello bigdaddyvw185;


I sent you a private message.



Post 137.

A small group of people “attempt” to berate me at every opportunity they get for making posts that they consider overly lengthy and/or overly detailed. Unfortunately, you might see more of those types of posts on your thread.
Post 142.


Imo they also frequently won't stop making these types of negative posts until they feel like they have the upper hand and had the last word, just watch.

Post 143.

Sorry Bigdaddy, we have to share the forums with people that have, well, let’s just call them issues. I won’t respond to the babble above and mess your thread up anymore, but I can’t promise the same of others.

Imo, he is hijacking your thread once again by making even more unwarranted, abrasive comments about me in a post where imo, he is attempting to disguise his intent by making an artificial apology for previously hijacking your thread to use for his own agenda to make abrasive comments to me. He then says that I “have issues”...? lol.

I rest my case.

[bigdaddyvw185]

I run a 39 pwk similar to Hartley's 300r on my 84 and had no problems with the cable interfering with the down tube and binding but I can see where it could be a problem. The top of the carb is right under the tube.

thank you for chiming in man, i was actually looking up your thread over on foolers for your 300 build this afternoon and saw the post where you mention'd you didnt have to drill the hole like 1upfront had too and you were able to sneak it right on in, Hopefully i will run into the same luck! lol.

[DohcBikes]

The three wheeler build that you started this thread to showcase is looking really good bigdaddyvdub. Excellent work!

[barnett468]

I welcome any help / suggestions that i can get... Especially with this build god knows i could use it, I new nothing of 2 strokes back when this build first started and i would not have it in its current condition without the help of the fellow members on these boards. ...So with that being said lets just keep it civil and keep it to the point of helping each other out.Hi bigdaddyvw185;

Did you get or ask about 2 stage reeds for it?

[bigdaddyvw185]

I have yet to get a set of reeds, i am still shopping around. still need to get in touch with mossbarger, have to call them one of these days, i found a phone number for them from the foolers website, so i will be giving that a shot. Also from what i understand they still make the bolt on metal intakes with the rubber in whatever size is needed, so thats a even bigger plus.

found a post on foolers with the info regarding the subject so i was like yep i need to give them a call.

[90guy]

I have yet to get a set of reeds, i am still shopping around. still need to get in touch with mossbarger, have to call them one of these days, i found a phone number for them from the foolers website, so i will be giving that a shot. Also from what i understand they still make the bolt on metal intakes with the rubber in whatever size is needed, so thats a even bigger plus.

found a post on foolers with the info regarding the subject so i was like yep i need to give them a call.
I have also heard that they have a metal intake set up. Should let me know if they have one or not. Might go that route and put it on the shelf just incase the fl350 starts cracking.

[bigdaddyvw185]

lol i heard about it from the article that you started over on foolers, something along the lines of "WTB a intake that will fit a 300 kit" haha. thank you for starting that post other wise i would not have found the info! so with that thank you, and laidout2times for the phone number lol

[bigdaddyvw185]

heres the east coast supplier for keihin pwj, pwm and pj carbs.

mikuni vm, tm, tmx, tms carbs.


http://www.carbparts.com/mikuni.html

So i gave them a call today to place an order for the carburetor and throttle as both you and Yaegerb suggested, Also for the fact that they have the best prices i could find. Turns out the PWK's are on back order until the end of February! and they have over 50 Pre orders placed already So it looks like i wont be seeing a carb until then :wondering. I need to call back tomorrow and actually place the order, hearing that their was such a wait kind of made me want to search else where for a deal but for the amount that the carb / throttle cable / jet kit is from them is hard to beat.
Also after talking with the engine builder I will be going with a 35mm, Like quite a few of you guys had suggested he also said 34-36mm range would be what he would use for my situation so im going with that Thank you everyone for the suggestions and info on what you all are running on your trikes to help me decide on which size.

[barnett468]

So i gave them a call today to place an order for the carburetor and throttle as both you and Yaegerb suggested, Also for the fact that they have the best prices i could find. Turns out the PWK's are on back order until the end of February!

Also after talking with the engine builder I will be going with a 35mm,

Thank you everyone for the suggestions and info on what you all are running on your trikes to help me decide on which size.Good deal, you're almost there.

How much is it from Sudco?

Check out the following to see if it helps.


Amazon has 1 in their warehehouse for $182.19 with free shipping. How much was sudco?

http://www.amazon.com/Keihin-016-160-35mm-Striker-Carburetor/dp/B00C178K6G


Try these guys too, they are an esast coast distributor for Keihin and Mikuni.

http://www.carbparts.com/keihin/katv.htm

[barnett468]

here's the other model

$170.00

http://www.amazon.com/Keihin-016-150-PWK-35mm-Carburetor/dp/B00C178IZE/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1

[HondaRidr]

From what I have read you can use a 78-80 cr250 intake boot for a 38mm carb on a fooler. The best part is you can still get new ones for 55$! I was going to order one soon and try it out before posting it up just to make sure it works but figured I would let you know!

[bigdaddyvw185]

Well i placed the order today from http://www.carbparts.com/keihin/katv.htm sealed the deal on the 35mm air striker. included was a new throttle cable, and jet kit with jets from 40-55 for the pilot, and 168-182 for the main. and the carb is going to have a 48 pilot jet installed and a 175 main, i am going to start from there.

HondaRidr, let me no how the 78-80 cr250 boot works out and thanks for the tip, I still need to get in contact with mossbarger about purchasing a reed cage / manifold. if they can make the manifold's in whatever size intake boot is needed that is going to be the way i am going to go. I just wanted to get the carb order'd before i contacted them, that way i no what size carb i have and can intern tell they what size intake tube i would need if they can still make them.

[bigdaddyvw185]

I was browsing ebay this afternoon and came across this and ended up making an offer and the seller accepted my offer. Anyone have any idea what brand it is? i have seen this style intake one time before but still have no idea on the brand. the boost bottle port is threaded so a block can be installed if you do not want to use the boost bottle. the intake throat is 38mm and the stud spacing for the rubber Carb mount is 60mm, I was able to find a mikuni carb mount that is the correct size (thanks for the tip Paul), So i picked that up today also.
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[Jheezy7]

Ahh sweet! I saw that thing on ebay too..I believe it's either a DG or Helm and Son..it should have a stamp on the inside part that would attach to the cylinder..always wondered how those things worked..you get your new 35mm airstryker yet?

[bigdaddyvw185]

The intake is in transit to me, but here is a pic of the area that you are describing that the seller posted... Not seeing any stamp or anything that would give info on the brand. As for the Carburetor, its still on back order from the east coast distributor and will not get shipped out till the end of the month.
185562

[1upfront]

check out these threads closely and look at the pics in them they show alot of the things I had to do to make things work on both my bikes over the years everything from clutches to carbs its all there.


http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/77227-300R-new-for-08-drag-season?highlight=300r+drag+bike
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/72280-project-83-250r?highlight=300r+dragtrike
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/68835-Thunder-Valley-Dirt-Drags?highlight=300r+drag+bike
http://airfoolers.com/forum/index.php?topic=156.0
http://airfoolers.com/forum/index.php?topic=88.0
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/84154-Billitt-Clutch-Basket-For-Airfoolers?highlight=mitaka+clutch

[1upfront]

heres another interesting thread about a punched out stock cylinder.
http://airfoolers.com/forum/index.php?topic=151.0

[bigdaddyvw185]

So I FINALLY!! got my 35mm PWK in today along with a selection of other Goodies!. Along with the carb came a full assortment of Genuine jets (40-55 Pilot) and (170-182 Main) The carb has a 178 main jet and a 48 pilot jet installed as a starting jet selection for initial startup. (Thanks for the initial Jet selection El Camexican, if i should tweak it for initial start guys please let it be known! i extremely appreciate any help / suggestions). The carb also fits like a glove with the Helm and son intake, thanks for the help / tip for the mikuni carb adapter Paul. A new Motion Pro throttle cable with a 70 degree bend at the carb inlet. A N.O.S clutch cable, Mossbarger Power Groove Reed cage kit with spacer, Gaskets and new hardware. And Id like to confirm that Mossbarger is still around and they ARE taking Phone order's so if any of you guys have been considering contacting them here is their phone number (856) 435-1977. I also asked them if they made the DG style intakes for the ATC250R's and they do not BUT they do make them for CR250's but I am fairly sure the angles of the intakes are different. And Last but Not least an AWESOME set of 300R decals thanks to Pantera!! they came out great i could Not be happier with them! thanks alot Jeff!!. I think it is about time for me to starting getting down to business! :D
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[ShaftDrive225dx]

[QUOTE=bigdaddyvw185;1269470]Last year i got my hands on a 84 250R for 340$ But it had a blown top end....little did i no it was not just any 250R, it had a 300R top end, i did not even realize what i had purchased as this was my first 2 stroke and first full size trike. So i posted up some pics over on .org and shocked by what i had in my hands. I was not going to do a full restoration project when i first got the trike, but once i realized what i had those plans went out the window and a full restoration was coming!!. well that was back in April and the project has since come almost full circle. some parts of the trike were in rather rough shape back when i picked it up. well here are some pics of how it sat when i grabbed it and then i will post more of the entire process up to how i have it sitting now!.


That's one hell of a job bigdadyvw185 if I had near enough guts I would restore mine lol... keep up the great work heres some pics of mine no wear near as nice as yours but it will keep you motivated none the less lol! Btw that's one badass rear end setup you got with the swingarm and all; awesome detail cheers bro!!!

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[bigdaddyvw185]

So i take one step forward and two steps back... The Helm and Son intake is WAY to large of an intake to work with the 300 cylinder / mossbarger Reed cage and spacer / AND the PWK. i Need to get my hands on an intake that is at least half the length of the helm and son. The helm and son comes out about 4 or so inches from the cylinder and leaves virtually no room for the carburetor to be mounted. Does anyone have a DG or Rocky intake available?.
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Had a feeling the Helm and son intake was going to be too large....

[nicker71]

That sucks!! I checked and didn't see a single one one eBay right now. Maybe you can get a stock intake to fit with some persuasion?

[bigdaddyvw185]

That sucks!! I checked and didn't see a single one one eBay right now. Maybe you can get a stock intake to fit with some persuasion?

I just had to bite the bullet....:mad: there was a DG intake on ebay and it was without a doubt up there $$$ wise but after a little bit of haggling i ended up coming to a deal with the seller. I still paid a tad bit more than i was willing to spend tho. But at least i was able to get my hands on an intake that will work! lol and its half the thickness if not more than the helm and son. Looks like the helm and son intake and boost bottle are going up for sale in the Classifieds!.
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[Jheezy7]

Chris, Chris, Chris...That guy was asking wayyy too much for that intake and that boot wasn't even good..you didn't even look at the chariot intakes did you???
$80. Shipped. And it came with 2 sets of bolts, gaskets, and the boot is carb specific..I'd be lying if I said I didn't think that DG one was pretty cool tho...
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[bigdaddyvw185]

Rest assured Justin I did NOT pay his asking price. I would be lieing if i said i looked at the chariot intakes :wondering:cry: If i had i prob would bought one of them.... Tho The chariot intake you posted is without a doubt not as large as the helm and son i have it still will come out a bit far from the cylinder when installed tho i bet i would have taken the chance on it anyways. At least with the DG intake it is nice and skinny which is what i need. You have to keep in mind that the mossbarger Reed cage has that 3/8 inch spacer so that takes up some much needed space also. I guess some times ya win some and ya loose some.... Ughhh lol.

[Jheezy7]

Lol...no worries man..just tryin to hook you up..I like how we're both in like the same exact spot in our builds..I just picked up the head and cylinder from the powdercoaters today then picked up the fixed and painted gas tank from the shop..I'm a 38mm pwk air striker cap and cable adjuster away from an extreme makeover..:D..here's a couple recent pics..two things..the red looks really bright cause the sun was beamin on it and the intake setups missing the spacer otherwise will be the exact same..not to hijack your thread..

[bigdaddyvw185]

The DG intake worked out great! everything fit like a glove Now i just need to wait for the new carb boot since this one has a wicked tear in it (should be in on Monday). One Major step forward.... Not to many steps left. The throttle cable could be a little bit tight tho but i will be dealing with that within the next couple days or so.
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[Jheezy7]

Yeaa buddy!! All you need is one of those angled adjuster/cap's..no biggie...will the airbox work with that setup?

[czac]

its looking good Chris.... this is going to be an awesome ride when its done, and its gonna look sweet as f***!

[JasonB]

looking awesome man! everything's so clean, real nice. You already crossed this bridge, but did you consider the fl350 intake boots at all? I had to run one on my 300R because the stock book just wouldnt accept the 39pwk i had. anyways, looking great man keep it up! Summer's coming and it will be time to ride!

[bigdaddyvw185]

Jason: I did have my eye out for an FL350 boot but I did not see one for sale.

Have been doing some work on the 300 the past couple days especially with the throttle cable, It does fit between the down tube of the frame when installed but it presses the carb down a bit, Now what i was thinking in order to free up a little bit of room between the carb and down tube is to cut off 1/16th - 1/8 of an inch of the throttle cable tube that goes into the carb which would intern lower the tube and would no longer come into contact with the down tube of the frame. then just adjust the cable up at the thumb throttle to make up for the section of tube i would cut out on the carburetor side.
What do you guys think???

With the throttle cable installed now it makes the carb sit in the intake boot in a way that i dont really like, I maybe just being anal at the moment but i dont like how the intake boot is over the little block on the carb, dont want any air leaks....

Here is without the throttle cable installed
189787

Then here it is with the intake installed, The throttle cable being pressed against the frame is tilting the carb forward into the intake boot.
189788

I was about to trim 1/16th - 1/8th inch off the bottom of the metal bend piece a bit that goes into the carb this afternoon but i just wanted to post my thoughts up and see what you guys thought on the subject. Other than the throttle cable situation i got the clutch cable and Sunline clutch lever all hooked up and started taking measurements and such to make a carb boot to go from the carb to the intake box. Its getting close!! tho i hear that we are going to have ANOTHER snow storm next week!...... i want spring! lol.
189789

[DohcBikes]

I don't know if its just me Chris but the attachments are not workin for me.

Glad you got an intake that works!

Edit: OK I can see them now!

[bigdaddyvw185]

Here is a pic of the cable end / metal piece i would like to cut down 1/16-1/8" inch to free up some room between the top of the carb / throttle cable and the down tube of the frame.
189796189797189798

[DohcBikes]

I think your idea will work, and obviously you want to be super careful not to cut the cable. The only concern would be running out of adjustment on the other end, so you'll have to decide if you have enough threads to spare. The amount you remove will directly correlate to the amount of adjustment you will have to sacrifice.

Cut only what is necessary if you go this route!

[nicker71]

I was thinking about your issue a little bit more and then it hit me, what if you remove your reed spacer? This will move your carb closer to the engine giving more space for your hoses and more room for your cable.

[DohcBikes]

Some of the guys running the 300r setup like yours drilled a hole in the frame backbone just above the carb cap and run the throttle cable inside the backbone . 1upfront has his setup like I mentioned . He put a rubber insert into the hole and run the cable threw it.189820Excellent. Got some trikes with engines that are TOO BIG lol.....I'll be trying this soon!

[bigdaddyvw185]

I stopped in at my local autozone today for a fuel filter for my tractor and started browsing for an intake tube to go from the intake box to the carb, 3'' on the air box side and 2 1/4" on the carb side. and to my surprise they had a spectro step down that worked rather nicely! ended up having to trim 1/2 of an inch off of it on the intake box side for it to fit properly but i am happy to report that it is going to work great!
Also want to add a special thanks to DohcBikes for supplying me with a functioning front brake caliper since i discovered that the previous owner of my caliper had ground down the caliper body which made the outside pad sit crooked when the brakes were applied. But anyways some replacement parts for the caliper will be here within the next couple days so that will be all good to go!
I have not been able to get out in the barn much lately (started a new job at a local motorcycle / powersports shop) so when i was able to barn today and get the air box all figured out i figured id give the thread an update.
191285191286

[Jheezy7]

Nice! good stuff brotha..looks like I'll be making a trip to autozone here soon..you gotta be gettin close..and why the heck would anyone grind the brake caliper like that??

[czac]

awesome!!! So whens it going to be up and running? lol...

[bigdaddyvw185]

your guess is as good as mine Justin lol, only thing that i could think of is for using some different set of brake pads :crazy:
And Craig sOoOoOon lol. My front brake caliper parts will be in any day so once they come in that will be all set. I am waiting on some bushings for the swing arm / torque link that attaches to the brake caliper / swing arm then once they are done the rear caliper is going on and i can finally torque down the rear end / axle and install the chain.

[bigdaddyvw185]

So i got my rear brakes and axle all squared away last night! I ran into a small problem last week while installing the rear brakes. I am using a boss bearing carrier from ebay and since it is not the OEM carrier it was not allowing the brake rotor hub to be installed in the correct position on the axle. I ended up having to use 1/4" shims between the caliper and mounting bracket. But when i did this the problem was still there for the fact that since the brake rotor hub was not in far enough on the axle the 2 axle nuts could not be tightend properly.... So i decided to have a local machine shop turn down 1/4" on the inner side of the brake rotor hub and chamfer a new area for a O ring, Needless to say this solved all the problems that i was dealing with and everything bolted up perfect!

So as an FYI for any of you guys planning on buying a boss bearing carrier off ebay the inner side of the brake rotor will need to be trimmed down a tad bit. But it does work nicely once it is trimmed, I spoke with a member over on foolers.com and was he informed me that he also had to do the same thing and was glad to hear that he was not the only one who ran into this minor problem lol.

but anyways The rear end has been squared away along with the brakes, just need to set the chain tension and tighten up the carrier bolts after the chain tension is set. So last night while burning the midnight oil along with a buddy of mine we decided to sit the fenders / gas tank / seat on it for the first time while having it sit as a roller. To decide on what we are going to do for the color scheme of the rear fenders for the new set i will be ordering in the near future we came up with a couple different ideas that i think will be pretty awesome!.
Here are some pics of how it sat last night.
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[DohcBikes]

DAAAAAAAMN!!!!! I bet youre gettin excited!!

Looks GREAT bro, and good stuff on the brake hub mod. This thread is about as informative as it gets on the 2nd gen R's in my opinion, know lots more about them now, thanks Chris.

:beer

[Jheezy7]

^^^^I gotta second that...I'm biased of course but this is easily one of my favorite build threads..lookin good buddy..it's soo close!!!!!:beer

[slashfan7964]

Looking seriously wicked dude. Love it.

[JasonB]

dude its soooo close! you have been wrenching on this way to long, finish it and go for a damn ride already! looking real good

[bigdaddyvw185]

dude its soooo close! you have been wrenching on this way to long, finish it and go for a damn ride already! looking real good

I was actually looking threw my pictures from when i first got it and I bought it April 4 2013, So just over a year now, you have been watching from the start.. At least throw me a bone for the fact that it was in Really rough shape when i got it lol.... its Almost done. I still have the tuning process on my mind but have been doing my homework Jason lol. Plus now that i am working at this motorcycle shop i have already gotten the OK to bring it in to the shop and the techs / owner will help me out with the tuning process. They want me to bring it into work and put it outside in the line of bikes in front of the store for a couple days to show it off lol since we are one of the few shops in my area that will actually even take in a 3 wheeler for service :D I was like yea we can work that out.

[czac]

Plus now that i am working at this motorcycle shop i have already gotten the OK to bring it in to the shop and the techs / owner will help me out with the tuning process. They want me to bring it into work and put it outside in the line of bikes in front of the store for a couple days to show it off lol since we are one of the few shops in my area that will actually even take in a 3 wheeler for service :D I was like yea we can work that out.

lol Im gonna wait till you go for lunch then im gonna go bug him by asking if its for sale and how much then im gonna offer some huge amount of $$ for it, then im gonna tell him ill only buy it if he'll change the tires! lol, lol, lol... Did you get the new "Goodies" on it yet? I gotta start like, showing up at your work with a lawn chair and be like them old guys who hang around garages and just break stones and talk s**t all day...lol, lol, lol... well, until they toss me out of there.

Seriously though, if you put your trikes out-front, Im sure there will be tons of people stopping to look at it.
Are those bikes all for sale?

[czac]

oh yeah... I found this and thought of you.. lol http://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-1982-HONDA-250R-ATC-QUAD-CONVERSION-ASTRO-3X4-BOLT-ON-KIT-81-82-ATC250R-/301166467938?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item461eeb9b62&vxp=mtr

and theres a guy on Craigs list who is trying to trade off 2 250R's turned to quads... lol

[czac]

oh yeah... I found this and thought of you.. lol http://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-1982-HONDA-250R-ATC-QUAD-CONVERSION-ASTRO-3X4-BOLT-ON-KIT-81-82-ATC250R-/301166467938?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item461eeb9b62&vxp=mtr

and theres a guy on Craigs list who is trying to trade off 2 250R's turned to quads... lol Im almost wishing it would fit the YTM...lol

[bigdaddyvw185]

So today i got the PRM skid plate installed and started mocking up the bills exhaust along with my DG tip. It looked like it was going to work nicely off of the trike but when installed the angles are slightly different. I have to bend the DG tip about 15-20 degrees out towards the outside of the trike. I really dont want to bend up this DG tip tho since i still have my DG expansion chamber and it fits great with that pipe.... I am going to check out Ebay and see if their are any listed for a decent price, If anyone has a silencer available please by all means give me a shout.

Also does anyone happen to have a 2nd gen exhaust gasket that goes inside the expansion chamber??????? I fab'd up my own out of an espesdus gasket i found at work but i feel that with it i am not going to be able to get the expansion chamber fully seated onto the exhaust flange because it is 2 times the width of the stock OEM gasket and takes up the whole rim of the exhaust flanger versus the OEM that takes up only half.
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[bigdaddyvw185]

Here is a pic of the gasket i fab'd up, then a pic of the OEM gasket that i was able to get from a buddy on the forums for mockup / comparison to while trying to find something that will work.
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[czac]

I fab'd up my own out of an espesdus gasket i found at work but i feel that with it i am not going to be able to get the expansion chamber fully seated onto the exhaust flange because it is 2 times the width of the stock OEM gasket and takes up the whole rim of the exhaust flanger versus the OEM that takes up only half.

whats it made out of?

[bigdaddyvw185]

Long time no report, the trike is ready to start but I went to go and torque down my swing pivot bolt that I had made at a local machine shop.... Well needless to say It was not strong enough and it snapped. Now the machine shop does not want to take it on and supply me with another swing arm bolt because I broke it and he thinks that he isn't going to be able to make it any stronger... So here I am with the trike ready to start with no swing arm bolt :mad: But anyways here is a pic of how it sits nowadays. 196731
If anyone happens to have a spare 83/84 swing arm bolt that they could stand to part with it would be greatly appreciated!!

also got the air lines for the PWK all ran nicely into the air box, a new set of fenders and a set of Black ITP Baja wheels with ITP mudlite SP tires that I have yet to install onto the trike, Pics will come one of these days!
196732

Well I have been holding off on this post because I wanted to post after I actually was able to take it for a ride but this swing arm bolt situation has had me in a rut for the last 3 weeks :mad: so I figured id just at least post the picture of it being done and ready for the first start lol.

[DohcBikes]

It looks fantastic bud! Im going to post an ad on craigslist here tomorrow morning to see if we can find you a bolt.

[bigdaddyvw185]

The 300 has been started! Overall it went without much of a headache and ran rather good on the initial jet setting of a 48 pilot and a 178 main, I ended up bumping it up to a 180. I still haven't had the chance to really take it for a good ride besides taking it for a quick run down the street. long story short I am now working as a parts rep at a local motorcycle shop, I was able to bring it over the house of the best tech we have and do the initial start up / heat cycles. Once it had some heat cycles we both took it down the street and I was happy to hear that he said it was running rather well tho he did suggest to bump it up to the 180 main jet.
I am thinking about taking it for a little riding trip in PA this weekend at the lost trails, has anyone ever been???
also could someone tell me what standard operating temperature or close to it is for the 300 kit? since this is going to be the first real riding day with this trike I am going to be bringing my infrared thermometer with me and am going to be paying close attention to the temp.

Also want to give a big thanks to Manbearpig for the Westcoast swingarm! and assorted clutch parts!! I should be receiving them this afternoon thanks again man!

[pipeline triker]

Looking good, I have been working on my 84 300 lately also. As far as running temp I do not know, seems cooler than a OEM top end, but I know the 300 takes longer to warm up.

[czac]

I saw that bad boy last Saturday... its really sweet up close and personal... lol here it is hanging out with the Yamahumper ! (Notice the 3WW Hat on the Humper...lol)

http://www.brokenfencephotography.com/Other/Yamaha-225-DXN/i-DLdfpq4/0/L/trikes1-L.jpg

http://www.brokenfencephotography.com/Other/Yamaha-225-DXN/i-fVZqGqB/0/L/trikes%202-L.jpg

[bigdaddyvw185]

So I had the trike running for a bit last night and after I shut it down I noticed a small quarter size (or smaller) drip underneath the front of the engine, I traced it back and it seems to be coming from the exhaust manifold area / upper section of the center case gasket. I also noticed a small wet area underneath the carburetor also that seems to be smack dab ontop of the center case gasket.
Now I am running amsoil dominator as a premix which is a Red oil, and I am running amsoil 10/40 synthetic as tranny oil which is a amber color. this oil that seems to be leaking / seeping is Red without a doubt. So here is where I am confused....why does it look to be that my case gasket is leaking but if it was my case gasket that was leaking why is it the Red premix oil!??!?.
The exhaust side leak / seep I could see having it be just oil expelled from the engine running and normal operation and the carburetor side leak could very well be coming from the carb itself / reed cage area.

Also my case gasket is 100% dry on the bottom of the engine which also makes me lean towards the fact that the leaks are coming from a different area, ontop of the fact that the seeps / leaks are without a doubt red oil = premix. I just saw this last night and got all kinds of bummed out lol so here are some fairly crappy pics of what I have found so far.
Any suggestions would be great appreciated, I was told that oil seepage like that on the exhaust side is par for the course which I could very easily see, then for the area underneath the carb / intake manifold more like than not could very well be coming from the carb.

I just instantly went to worst case scenario with it being the case gasket then got a bit fusterated last night... but thinking about it this morning I want to keep myself positive since it is red oil and not the tranny oil. is this something to instantly panic about? like I said I assume that some oil underneath the exhaust flange is a semi normal thing, underneath the carb on the other hand.... well that is a little bit different.
lemi no what you guys think
Thanks
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[manbearpig]

im not sure if i see a hose attached to the crank case breather.. if there is no hose, that may explain the oil under the carb

[bigdaddyvw185]

hose is attached to the crank case breather, that was my first initial thought that it was the crankcase breather that was leaking. but ill tell ya it seems to be that the oil is seeping from the center case gasket then working its way over to the crankcase breather then down the side of the engine. It very well could be that the crankcase breather is leaking then going both directions, into the center of the engine / crankcase gasket area AND working its way down the side of the engine

[El Camexican]

Protruding gaskets make great trails for oil and gravity will take it a long way. If you are sure it's pre-mix oil don't worry too much. Did you silicon the exhaust before you put it together? I would dry the engine up real good and run it. Keep wiping it up and looking for the source till you find it.

[czac]

could it be due to Gasket shrinkage MR. Costanza? lol...

seriously, maybe since its been all taken apart and put back together, now that its been hot and cool a few times maybe some bolts need to be re torqued?


"I WAS IN THE POOL, I WAS IN THE POOL!"

http://media.giphy.com/media/yA8HRFteUCTEA/giphy.gif

[bigdaddyvw185]

Well I went out and checked on it before work this morning and sure enough its seeping from both spots. And that was with the engine dead cold and not starting in 2 days. Another thing is that the leakage oil has no smell of Gas but has the red tint of the Amsoil dominator premix. I am starting to wonder if my premix is mixing with the tranny's amber colored 10/40.

Also the exhaust flange was 100% dry, the seepage / leakage in the front starts where the cylinder base gasket / case half's meet then flows down to the flat portion of the engine case's.

As for the back portion, their was a good 3 inch puddle leaking down from the top case half / crankcase breather area. This area is without a doubt producing more oil leakage / seepage.

the fact that it is Red oil tells me premix but the fact that it does not smell like gas trouble's me.

[czac]

Hmmmm ... can you run out a bit of tranny fluid and see what it looks like?

So on your trike, it mixes the oil and gas itself? no mixing in a gas can before filling the tank like the old days?

[DohcBikes]

No craig it's premix.

If the it is the base gasket leaking that bad then unfortunately you'll have to take the motor apart again. As you know I'm not a two stoke guru but it sounds to me like your case halves might not be perfectly lined up. It were in my shop I would do a leak down test first.

[bigdaddyvw185]

Protruding gaskets make great trails for oil and gravity will take it a long way. If you are sure it's pre-mix oil don't worry too much. Did you silicon the exhaust before you put it together? I would dry the engine up real good and run it. Keep wiping it up and looking for the source till you find it.


Protruding gaskets make great trails for oil and gravity will take it a long way. If you are sure it's pre-mix oil don't worry too much. Did you silicon the exhaust before you put it together? I would dry the engine up real good and run it. Keep wiping it up and looking for the source till you find it.

Long time no update....
You were spot on with the oil traveling, turns out that the source of the oil was the bottom center bolt hole for the reed cage (which is a threw hole on the 300 cylinder) it is directly above the center case gasket. I removed the cage to check how the gaskets were holding up (the gaskets between the cage spacer / reed cage and cage spacer and cylinder were soaked by the way) well once the cage was out of the cylinder I had a better look at the bottom bolt hole which is a threw hole. It was full of oil, I threaded a bolt threw it and pushed out enough oil to completely coat my finger.
Now I am running a mossbarger reed cage and spacer, I am also running the gaskets that mossbarger supplied which I think are vesrah gaskets. But they look to be trimmed... I would not go far enough to say that they are home made but they are certainly not the same width as the oem gaskets on the sides on the reed cage and the inside Edges are certainly not straight.
That being Said I have oem gaskets and I will be using those but the oem gaskets are slightly pulled when installed over the reed cage / spacers (intern the trimming on the gaskets that came with the reed cage. I am thinking about using a tiny tiny bit of rtv just around the bottom bolt hole that was causing this leak just to hole the gasket in place perfectly around that bottom hole. I am just pondering the idea using the rtv what do you guys think? A big part of me says to just run it without it but I just wanted to throw out the idea.

Anyways on a different note my air scoops are all painted up and the black sided gas tank paint scheme is complete now I just need to play with my decals. I am also very Happy to report that this thing is a BLAST to ride lol. I have not been able to really enjoy it yet since I have always been looking over my shoulder when I ride it and don't have access to a nice open "legal" area To really get on it. None the less it put a rather large smile on my face the few times I have taken it out lol.

[czac]

the first time I took my carb apart to look inside it, I noticed it had one of those new fangled O-ring type gaskets between the top and the float bowl instead of the nice, old school paper type flat gasket the OEM carb had... when I tired to put the thing back together, the rubber O-ring gasket fought me all the way, one side would line up but the other side would flop off the side... it was as iff the gasket were a bit too big for the little channel that was cut into the carbs bowl for it to sit in. so, I said screw this, Im too old to be fussing with this thing. Out came the super glue! lol just a tiny little dab at the offending areas was all it took to hold that sucker in place so I could put the two halves together. it worked like a charm. id say a touch ov RTV wouldn't hurt you at all. Just don't go getting all crazy with it like the previous owner of my trike did...he even tried to seal the rear wheel beads with it! lol

[bigdaddyvw185]

Well long story short I threw on some Suzuki 1207B liquid gasket onto the bottom center reed cage bolt and I am happy to report that it did the trick. I have run the bike quite a few times since and I have seen no sign of any leaks. Over the last couple months I picked up a Westcoast swingarm and a +4 finishline axle. I had the axle Zinc plated in black and boy did that bad boy come out looking fresh!. The swingarm is going in for powdercoating along with some other little parts like the brake pedal and seat mounts this month im thinking about having it done to match the paint scheme on the gas tank but :D. Also recently received my air scoops back from being painted, the gas tank color scheme is now complete.

Will have pics of the swing arm all done up in the red and black color scheme around Christmas time as it is a Christmas present and I cant even see it after its powdercoated lol....girlfriend wont even let me lay eyes on it until Christmas
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[manbearpig]

so FRESH :beer

[czac]

looking great! that black zinc coating is nice.... who did it?

[bigdaddyvw185]

bass plating in bloomfield CT this is their website http://www.bassplating.com/home.html
I dropped it off and picked it up the next morning and out the door it was only $50. I called all over CT looking for a shop that could plate something as big as the axle and I finally got pointed to this shop by another shop. Turns out this is the place he sends his larger items to. End of the day I was very happy with the whole situation.
I just wish I had taken some pictures before I had it plated for a before and after comparison.... Hey Paul do you happen to have Any???? lol

[czac]

nice... lol ill have to put that site in my faves... lol is that the same axel you had at the show that day? do they do other colors too or does it just come in black?

[bigdaddyvw185]

Long time with no post's.
I have been working diligently trying my best to source some goodies for the 300. Over the past couple months I have been slowly refinishing a +2 Westcoast swinger to match the color scheme on my gas tank. It had some minor chain rub on the bottom side and it went in for some fresh powdercoat. Also got some other odds and ends powder coated. The brake pedal in red, rear shock linkage in black, the front wheel in black, seat mounting bracket in red, brake stay / brake line rod in red, and the footpegs in Red.
207301207302207303207304

now the powdercoat with the black and red color scheme
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and matching decals! also have NOS swing arm pivot bushing's and a new all balls bearing kit waiting to be installed.
207313


Then a while back I came across a headlight guard on ebay that was fairly bent.... My dad and I were looking at it one day and we decided to copy it and make a new one out of stainless which we then gave a nice little polish to ;) I think it came out pretty sweet!
207308207309

One day at work I decided to have the Honda dealership we work with at the shop do a part number search for a hondaline speedo.... found one NOS siting on a shelf in Utah for a great price and snatched it up quick! then was able to find a NOS installation kit with the help of members on the forum!
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Want to say a BIG thank you to Manbearpig, Blue27, Petesatc, And the guys who helped with the Part numbers for the Speedo related items!

[bigdaddyvw185]

I forgot!
my girlfriend surprised me for my birthday and got this! its a dealer confidential brochure for the Fooler!
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sorry the pictures aren't the greatest, I need to scan them into my computer and post them up properly

[yaegerb]

Long time with no post's.
I have been working diligently trying my best to source some goodies for the 300. Over the past couple months I have been slowly refinishing a +2 Westcoast swinger to match the color scheme on my gas tank. It had some minor chain rub on the bottom side and it went in for some fresh powdercoat. Also got some other odds and ends powder coated. The brake pedal in red, rear shock linkage in black, the front wheel in black, seat mounting bracket in red, brake stay / brake line rod in red, and the footpegs in Red.
207301207302207303207304

now the powdercoat with the black and red color scheme
207305207306207307
and matching decals! also have NOS swing arm pivot bushing's and a new all balls bearing kit waiting to be installed.
207313


Then a while back I came across a headlight guard on ebay that was fairly bent.... My dad and I were looking at it one day and we decided to copy it and make a new one out of stainless which we then gave a nice little polish to ;) I think it came out pretty sweet!
207308207309

One day at work I decided to have the Honda dealership we work with at the shop do a part number search for a hondaline speedo.... found one NOS siting on a shelf in Utah for a great price and snatched it up quick! then was able to find a NOS installation kit with the help of members on the forum!
207310207311207312

Want to say a BIG thank you to Manbearpig, Blue27, Petesatc, And the guys who helped with the Part numbers for the Speedo related items!

Starting to look very nice indeed. Watch out, she's encroaching garage queen territory ;)

[bigdaddyvw185]

Starting to look very nice indeed. Watch out, she's encroaching garage queen territory ;)

I no......:wondering:wondering:lol: that was not my intention when I first got this trike!

[bigdaddyvw185]

Hope everyone had a good weekend....
I no I did! ;) I installed my black powder coated front wheel and speedometer
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Then I was browsing craigslist and came across another 84 300R for sale!
long story short I went on Saturday morning and scooped it up!
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the guy I purchased it from was the second owner and bought it back in 89! it hasn't run in 2 years but feels like it has good compression (haven't done a compression test yet), he stopped riding it bc the chain kept popping off and the sprockets were SHOT! he started to replace the sprockets and then never finished..... and that's how it sat until I came along. Front and rear brakes systems work tho i will be swapping them out for fully rebuilt calipers. As you can see it came with a HI FLITE seat tho it does have a rip, and it even has the OEM tool box!, the rear fenders are not cracked at all but are certainly showing some age..... going to try and bring them back to their former glory (going to use darious1502's method). overall this trike does not seem to have been seriously molested in any way. The wire harness is still installed with factory wire ties in their factory locations which is nice, it even has the factory gas line still installed lol the gas tank cosmetically is in darn good shape, some minor rust inside but hey...
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So I am now the proud owner of Twin 84 300R's
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[bigdaddyvw185]

o and check out the Rot on the stock expansion pipe
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the front lower portion of the frame is not in the greatest shape cosmetically as you can imagine from the shape of the pipe lol. but thankfully their was a boat load of built up grease and dirt on a lot of the trike which kept some of it looking somewhat decent after i cleaned some of the crap off but overall id have to put it into the crusty category no doubt lol.

[yaegerb]

very nice big daddy. Is the second one going to be your daily driver or a full resto-mod?

Another question...where did you get that lift?

[bigdaddyvw185]

the second 300 at this point in time I think is going to be a rider. I am still going to try and clean it up a bit so it doesn't look SOOO crusty but i don't have plans to do a full blown resto mod like on the original 300. when i first saw the second 300 the first thing that popped into my head was the fact that i could go out and beat on it and not feel bad about it while im doing it lol.

Now as for the lift i contacted Clark Heintz of New Hampshire's NHPROEQUIP.COM just because we were shopping for a dedicated ATV lift at the motorcycle shop i work at and after talking with the man i ended up buying one for myself and having it shipped to the shop.
this is the lift that i ended up getting
http://www.nhproequip.com/pro-1200semax-motorcycle-lift-package-free-shipping
it comes with the side extensions which makes it 48'' wide, a front extension that could be installed to make it adjustable in length from 84'' to 97'' and finally 110'' long. then a rear roller plate, rear drop out plate, a front tire vise, and a service pad jack, an extended loading ramp, and pneumatic footpedal. AND it comes with a 2 year FULL warranty!!!. O and by the way max height is 32.5''
Clark is a really nice guy to deal with
I LOVE this lift.... it made me instantly think why i didn't get one a long time ago lol.