metal shavings in oil 200x [Archive]

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duck4twenty

12-10-2013, 09:07 PM

Jason125m

12-10-2013, 09:16 PM

Are they metal or aluminum? Did you test with a magnet?

duck4twenty

12-10-2013, 09:26 PM

Are they metal or aluminum? Did you test with a magnet?
aluminum jus checkd with magnet

trike savior

12-10-2013, 09:26 PM

I wouldn't worry about it on the first few oil changes. If its a rebuilt motor you have fresh piston rings moving against a freshly honed cylinder. The honing provides a surface for the rings to wear against and eventually seal properly. This process will cause some metal shavings in oil until the cylinder looses the crosshatch from honing. I would not worry about fine metal particulates. If it does not get better or you find large chunks you can start to worry.

Make sure you do not have your timing chain too tight. It can put too much tension on the cam bearings and begin to eat the bearing race on the cylinder head.

El Camexican

12-10-2013, 09:37 PM

Ditto on the above post. I know it sounds bad and I can't tell you where your's all came from, but small shavings and particals do occure. Some can even be from the new oil you put in (the metal drums it comes in are full of crud) Clutch baskets are a major source of junk and a lot of stuff gets left in the oil passages if they aren't properly chased after machine work has been done. There are also a number of open holes in the cases that the case bolts thread into. Often some threads get stripped off and pushed into the cases when you assemble the engine. If there is still a lot in the oil after the third change you might have a problem.

barnett468

12-10-2013, 10:34 PM

just changed my oil for the first time on rebuilt motr and it had ALOT of metal shavings in it is that BAD? i changed the oil and it ran fine, all 5 gears sounds and runs fine. wer did those shavings come from thought ?You have a problem, you should never ever have a LOT of metal shavings in any engine new or old.

i would yank the clutch cover and disassemble everything under it and see if something is obviously rubbing. Any metal will waste your new cylinder in no time as it splashes the metal contaminated oil splashes up on it.

atc007

12-10-2013, 10:41 PM

Agreed, a little yes,like black sand sifting for gold. But you said a LOT. Not right. Did you clean the strainer out when you rebuilt it? How far into the bottom were you?

El Camexican

12-10-2013, 10:48 PM

How about we get "A LOT" defined. A 1/4 teaspoon? More? Less?

duck4twenty

12-11-2013, 01:13 AM

El Camexican

12-11-2013, 10:07 AM

it was like a pinch of shavings
i got the bike off some kid that said it had the whole motr rebuilt top 2 bottem, but he let it sit for about 6 months and then i came and saved it. filled it with fresh oil and ran fine backyard crusing mostly execpt last week i hit the trails didnt really ride hard nevr even got to 5th, but i was getting ready to hit the trails againg and this came up, but it seems fine been crusing the back yard even hit the streets to stretch her out on all gears runs fine

If it was just a pinch I stand by my earlier comment. I have magnetic bung plugs on all my trikes & bikes and they always have something on them. On my drag bikes I changed oil every weekend they were run and a 1/4" teaspoon of shavings on the magnets were the norm. We also would open the oil filters if time permited and there was always plenty of aluminium in them. The only thing were worried about was finding bronze from the thrust washers on the connecting rod pins. That meant you had between 0 and 10 passes left before you threw a rod. Not a fun thing to find, but better than venting a set of cases. If your oil has been changed go ride it and if it doesn't make any weird noises or shift funny change the oil after an hour or two. Unless there is more than a pinch I'd keep driving it. Others may disagree, so listen to whoever you want.:beer

yaegerb

12-11-2013, 10:11 AM

Its normal to find metal shavings on a completely rebuilt motor. Do what El Camexican said...change the oil a few more times and if you keep seeing shavings somethings wrong, but I doubt you will.

barnett468

12-11-2013, 11:16 AM

just changed my oil for the first time on rebuilt motr and it had ALOT of metal shavings in it is that BAD?

How about we get "A LOT" defined. A 1/4 teaspoon? More? Less?

it was like a pinch of shavings

i got the bike off some kid that said it had the whole motr rebuilt top 2 bottem, but he let it sit for about 6 months and then i came and saved it. filled it with fresh oil and ran

change the oil a few more times and if you keep seeing shavings somethings wrong,

I agree with the quote above from yaegerb. Any amount of metal in the oil will positively cause at least some wear/damage to internal parts like the piston and cylinder in a very short time as I previously mentioned, but the cam lobes, cam bearing surfaces and crank bearings are also other significant areas of concern. It won't hurt the gears or gear shafts as much as some other parts.

Aluminum is not as damaging as steel.

barnett468

12-11-2013, 11:39 AM

As far as the type of oil goes, i would stick with thr following:

4 stroke motorcycle oil. it is designed for wet clutch engines.

any oil with zddp levels of between 1100 ppp - 1600 ppm, some motul, motorex, lucas and all valvoline vr1 oils fall in this category as well as some others.

if it is around 40 degrees or below when you ride i might run 10w-30 or 5w-30.

synthetics are xlnt but look for the zddp levesl in them, only a few synthetics have zddp. All the mfg's I mentioned have both std and synthetic motorcycle oil with the appropriate levels of zddp.

lucas and valvoline are the least expensive.

I looked up the following cold weather wet clutch 4 stroke motorcycle oils for those that might be interested. I prefer ones with zddp [with zinc akyl dithiophosphate].

Motul

5w-30 synthetic has 1.4% zddp this is very good
5w-30 synthetic blend has 3% zddp that’s a ton

http://www.motul.com/us/en-us/products?f[engine_type]=26&f[range]=21&f[viscosity]=33

Motul 300V 5w-30 synthetic motorcycle oil with 3% ZDDP 2.1 qt bottle

$30.00

http://www.fcpimport.com/products/300v-power-racing-5w30-2-liter-103128

$34.00

http://www.amazon.com/Motul-300V-5W30-POWER-RACING/dp/B005V2ADLI

$35.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/181265162745?lpid=82

Lucas

5w-20 synthetic has zddp in unknown levels call for info
5w-30 synthetic has zddp in unknown levels call for info
https://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=55&catid=16&loc=show

Lucas 5w-30 synthetic motorcycle oil with ZDDP 1 qt bottle

$7.25 1 qt bottle

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/320334863523?lpid=82

$8.99

http://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-10049-5W-30-Synthetic/dp/B001DKQ4HO

lucas products msds list

http://www.lucasoil.ca/products/motorcycle-products.asp

motorex pro 4t

5w-30 ? synthetic zddp?
10w-30 synthetic zddp?
http://www.motorexusa.com/musa/offroad.asp
http://www.ktmpartsonline.com/accessories/motorex-oils

El Camexican

12-11-2013, 12:33 PM

barnett468

12-11-2013, 01:46 PM

Hello Duck4twenty

The reason I posted the oil info was not because I was assuming you actually needed it, but instead, was just in case you were unaware of the things I mentioned. Very few non professional vehicle people I know of have ever even heard of ZDDP.

Unlike some others, I occasionally post info/suggestions that I think might be helpful to someone that are relevant to their problem but that they might not have thought of to ask about.

Also unlike some others that offer no information relevant to an op’s problem or question in their post such as one that has been posted by another person on your thread [which in my opinion is also unnecessary, unwarranted and abrasive/sarcastic etc.] I at least make some sort of attempt to be helpful and not go off topic and clutter up someones thread with posts that have 0 relevance to an op's problem or question.

If you prefer that my post above be deleted for any reason, you will need to ask a moderator to do it because I do not have an edit button.

briano

12-11-2013, 01:50 PM

Barnett should sell oil for a living, he sure knows a lot about it and pricing.

On topic, I'd run it. You will be fine. Just change oil a couple more times after a few hours of riding. If you need help selecting a quality oil contact Barnett, he's a pro.

duck4twenty

12-11-2013, 02:12 PM

barnett468

12-11-2013, 02:22 PM

Barnett should sell oil for a living, he sure knows a lot about it and pricing. If you need help selecting a quality oil contact Barnett, he's a pro.The reason I posted the specific oils I did is because it is extremely hard to find oils in those weights that have high levels of ZDDP in it and that are designed for motorcycle use. it is also even harder to find synthetic oils in those weights that are not only designed for motorcycles but also have high levels of ZDDP in them. Synthetics rarely use ZDDP and instead typically use "antimony tris dipentylcarbamodithioato" as a substitute.

The oils I posted are also some that I would prefer to run in cold weather as opposed to Kernel Sanders recycled straight 50wt chicken extract that one can get from Wally World for only $1.99 per 2 gallon bucket along with a mail in refund of .03 cents.

I for one prefer to run high quality oils specifically designed for motorcycle engines as opposed to cheap ones that are not, simply so I don't have to replace my piston and bore my cylinder on a regular basis and also because I will stand a better chance of my clutch performing better and/or longer than it would with non motorcycle oil.

barnett468

12-11-2013, 03:24 PM

ive been using valvoline atv 4 stroke oil 10w-40, only 4 bucks a quart? Is that good enough or do i need bettrThat is good oil imo, and I would certainly recommend it as one option. There are better and there are worse. The "great" oils cost over $10.00 a qt and are overkill for recreational apps.

The only thing I would do as I mentioned in my previous post, is use a thinner oil than 10w-40 in extremely cold climates.

Once an engine is broken in on non synthetic oil one can switch to a synthetic blend or full synthetic. In general, without going into a lot of detail, both these types of oil offer better protection of parts and lower friction levels than a non synthetic of the same weight.

This means that if one “needs” 40 wt in a non synthetic oil, they can get similar protection from a 30 wt synthetic.

Also 30 wt oil offers less protection against wear than 40 wt oil but the use of lighter weight oil will allow the parts to move more freely. It is also not recommended to run oil that is much thicker than necessary. It won’t damage parts per se but it will reduce a vehicles hp.

Using an oil that is too light for an engine can obviously damage parts.

Since a 40 wt synthetic is more “slippery” than a 40 wt non synthetic, and 30 wt allows parts to move more freely than 40 wt then going from a 40 wt non synthetic to a 30 wt synthetic is a big reduction if “friction” per se.

Most chemical products have what is called an MSDS. This contains the ingredients of a product unless it is proprietary. You can look up the levels of ZDDP in oil by looking at this sheet. You can find most online.
Notice the words “zinc/phosphorous” at the bottom, this is the amount of what is typically called ZDDP. It is also called just zinc or Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate in some MSDS sheets.

FROM VALVOLINE

Valvoline ATV 4 Stroke SAE 10W-40 Oil

Valvoline ATV 4 Stroke Oil is formulated with the highest quality basestocks and additives to provide protection to the engine. ATVs place demands on oil that automotive oils are not designed to handle. The wet clutch system, high torque and loads, and the extreme operating environments of ATVs require oil with special properties for proper performance and protection. Valvoline ATV 4 Stroke Oil meets specific demands of ATV applications, providing the proper frictional properties for the wet clutch system, and the film strength for high running temperatures. Valvoline ATV 4 Stroke Oil contains a proprietary blend of premium base oils and advanced additive technology for outstanding performance and corrosion protection to help owners to get the most from their ATVs.

Valvoline ATV 4 Stroke Oil Advantages

- Extreme Condition Performance
- Wet Clutch Protection
- Excellent Corrosion Resistance
- Maximum Horsepower
- Minimal Wear

PARTIAL CONTENTS LIST

Sulfated Ash, .... wt.%.... 0.8
Zinc/Phosphorus, wt.% ... 0.102/0.093
Calcium/Sodium,. wt% .... 0.162/0.047

VALVOLINE 10W-40 MSDS

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/4_stroke_atv.pdf

Sorry for the lengthy reply. The unsolicited oil information contained in my previous post seemed to bother some people for some reason even though this is not their thread. I just thought you might find this info interesting since you asked for an opinion on the oil you are using. Now that you have this info you know how to find an oils ingredients yourself if you want.

tri again

12-11-2013, 03:35 PM

El Camexican

12-11-2013, 03:45 PM

The unsolicited oil information contained in my previous post seemed to bother some people for some reason even though this is not their thread.

Please don’t think I was annoyed in any way by your post. I just got a kick out of how you changed up the original topic of the post by writing an essay on oil right after suggested this guy tear down his engine down over a pinch of aluminum shavings. Please carry on, I enjoy reading oil posts as much as the next guy.

El Camexican

12-11-2013, 04:02 PM

May not mean much but my local motorcycle guy has been relatively shocked lately when doing break-in oil changes on new machines.
He said the amount of metal particulates is more than he's seen in 20+ years.
I'll have to see if I can get more info.
My first thought about the start of this thread might be related to an old, loose timing chain issue chewing on the case or head before the 'rebuild"?

A friend of mine was the Caterpillar rep for Central and South America about 8 years back. He told me that CAT was issuing notices suggesting that oil pumped directly from drums be avoided and that oil from plastic cans be used and not poured out completely. I think he even mentioned something about filtering the oil in the funnel. Apparently CAT was finding unexplainable foreign objects inside their engines. They did some tests and found all kinds of crud in the bulk oil drums because they aren’t being properly cleaned when they are made. Take a look in your plastic oil cans as you dump them, since he told me that I have seen a few dark particles in some. I have also seen a brand new Fram motorcycle oil filter that had a bunch (more than 5) of fingernail sized metal chips in it that looked to have come from the threading process. The good news is that our vehicles have oil filters and most of this crud never makes it up to the top end of the engines and that you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone who can prove a name brand motor oil noticeably shortened the life of their stock gasoline engine.

barnett468

12-11-2013, 04:33 PM

I just got a kick out of how you changed up the original topic of the post by writing an essay on oil right after suggested this guy tear down his engine down over a pinch of aluminum shavings.

post 1

just changed my oil for the first time on rebuilt motr and it had ALOT of metal shavings in it is that BAD? wer did those shavings come from thought ?

post 6

You have a problem, you should never ever have a LOT of metal shavings in any engine new or old.

i would yank the clutch cover and disassemble everything under it and see if something is obviously rubbing. Any metal will waste your new cylinder in no time as the metal contaminated oil splashes up on it.

post 7

Agreed, a little yes,like black sand sifting for gold. But you said a LOT. Not right. Did you clean the strainer out when you rebuilt it? How far into the bottom were you?

post 9

it was like a pinch of shavings

Hello duck4twenty

As you can see by the quotes above, my suggestion to inspect PART of your engine was made after your FIRST post where you said you said had a "LOT" of metal in your oil. You even typed the word "lot" in bold type to emphasize the amount. My suggestion for inspection was immediately followed by atc007 who agreed with me.

This suggestion was made BEFORE your post number 9 in which you redefined your initial use of the phrase "A LOT", as "A PINCH".

Had I seen your comments in post 9 prior to replying, I would not have recommended removing anything for inspection.

I also did not suggest you "tear your engine down" as I define the term. I simply suggested removal of the clutch cover ONLY and inspection of the parts under there.

I am only mentioning this because the post made by another person, which is the first one pasted above, is factually inaccurate and I simply wanted to post the facts so there is no misunderstanding by anyone.

I also in no way consider myself one of the most knowledgeable people regarding oil and therefore encourage you to do more research on your own if you want and I also encourage others that might see an error in the oil info I posted, to offer a correction supported by facts or offer additional oil related info they might think will be helpful to you.

duck4twenty

12-11-2013, 04:57 PM

well a pinch to me is alot more then ive seen when doing oil changes maybe 1 or 2 little flakes,(never on a rebuilt motr though) but a pinch of shavings that was too much for me, but thats y i posted on here to try and gets some help/info frm u guys, u guys really helped me out. been riding my backyard all day gonna do anther oil change latr tonight and see what it looks like ill keep u guys posted

tri again

12-11-2013, 04:59 PM

My favorite oil shock was the reduction in zinc/phos.
Supposedly to decrease contamination of catastrophic converters in the name of pollution control.
Supposed to be real hard on cams and flat faced lifters.
Pretty sure Volvo pioneered flat cams in the 70's. I remember watching random valves opening and closing, engine running with the valve cover off.
Yeah, x2 w/ elcam, Freaks me out when someone upturns either oil or gas cans completely.
Water and stuff Loves to hang out in the bottom.
Keep up the good work Barnett. The more we know, the better.
I've gotten some great insight from posts like these.

barnett468

12-11-2013, 06:05 PM

Please don’t think I was annoyed in any way by your post. Please carry on, I enjoy reading oil posts as much as the next guy.

The good news is that our vehicles have oil filters and most of this crud never makes it up to the top end of the enginesSome bikes have no oil filter system which obviously is less than optimal, some use a centrifugal system which is still less than optimal, others use an actual filter that the oil is pumped through.

If your particular oil filter system is so great as I am interpreting the quote above to suggest, then why do you have metal in your oil since the filter system “should” filter it out?...Anyone?...Hello?...

It is my understanding, as wrong as it might be, that an oil filter is supposed to just that...filter oil. It appears that in your case, it didn’t. One of the possible reasons it didn’t other than the fact that your particular oil filter system might SUCK, is because there is actual wear occurring in your engine which is continually putting metal in the oil.

Obviously there might be a bit that does not get picked up by the system but I certainy would not extoll the "quality" of these particular systems.

and that you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone who can prove a name brand motor oil noticeably shortened the life of their stock gasoline engine.
I notice the use of the phrase “name brand motor oil” in the quote above as opposed to the phrase “any brand of motor oil” so I won’t address that comment specifically but instead will offer the following info.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, the use of any oil in an engine with a flat tappet camshaft will result in a shorter life of the cam and lifters than the use of a comparable oil that has ZDDP.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, a synthetic oil offers greater protection against wear than a comparable non synthetic oil.

One exception to this is on a flat tappet camshaft, where the labs as well as other sources, have proven that oils with ZDDP increase the life of this type of cam and lifters over comparable oils without ZDDP.

One of the ways they determine these things is by doing actual wear tests on different metals.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, the oil that comes from the Quaker State oil fields is of higher quality than oils that come from other areas. One of the reasons is because, for lack of a better term, it “sticks” to things better than all other crude oils. Yes, they actually have a test for this as hard as it might be to believe.

This means that due to its inherent “stickyness”, it stays on the parts longer than the other oils thereby protecting them better.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, a conventional oil filter does not filter out 100% of the contaminates in oil including metal.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, a "nano" filter like the ones made by Mobil, filter out smaller particles than any other non "nano" type filter.

There are a few of these scientific test reports available online if one is interested in learning more facts about oils.

atc007

12-11-2013, 06:29 PM

El Camexican

12-11-2013, 07:45 PM

If your particular oil filter system is so great as I am interpreting the quote above to suggest, then why do you have metal in your oil since the filter system “should” filter it out?...Anyone?...Hello?...

At the risk of hurting your feelings let me enlighten you with a few “scientific facts”.
Metal weighs more than oil and some oil pickups are set just high enough off the oil pan that they won’t run dry at maximum flow volume. There are also screens on some pick-ups that prevent larger particles from entering and damaging the pump. There are also instances when particles of steel passes over a magnet before getting to the oil pump where they remain until the next oil change. All this means that some larger fragments will never get picked up by the pump and taken to a filter. Perhaps they didn’t teach this in engineering school, but let me assure you it’s a fact. As far as the other little bits and pieces that are found in a well-used ATV crankcase many can be attributed to the design compromises of these engine. In the simplest of terms it not practical to put a smooth, rounded automotive style sump in an ATV as it would mean that the cylinder head would end up when the gas tank normally sits. Instead the pickups are usually located sideways, or in a slightly recessed portion of the cases between crank and the transmission. This leaves all sorts of webs nooks for particles to hide in. I don’t know if you even own a trike or bike that you can go look at to confirm my claims, so let me assure you, it’s a fact.

Proud owner of an edit button since 2011

oscarmayer

12-11-2013, 07:45 PM

i like Pennzoil, Valvoline and Castro oils. i prefer 10w30. i have used it for many years and even under racing conditions with never any engine issues due to oil type. I think the best i have used for the Honda stuff is Pennzoil. I have tried the high dollar and even after engine tear downs i have not found any evidence they do a better job on my motors than the 3 I listed. if spending $10-$35 a quart makes you feel better, then that's ok too. to each's own. But me I do what i know works for me any my motors.

OP,
i think some metal on first change is normal, but as mentioned it should quickly subside once the engine brakes in. if that was the first time oil has ever been in the motor since rebuild you would have more than just particles form parts wearing in, you would also have particles form machining on the rebuild. When I rebuild any motor, ATV, ATC, Car, ETC. i always do a start up, let it come to temperature, then shut it down while hot and drain the oil. I then let it cool, and refill and then start my normal break in. I honestly typically for that first start up use the crappy auto part store brand oil because it only stays used for like 5 min at max so no point spending $3.89 a quart when a $1.29 brand will do for initial "cleaning" is what I refer it too.

that being said, I would assume you probably ran into that same issue with this. I bet the next change will look much better. also got for a ride and after the next ride session change it again and look for particles. i would assume you would see very little.

oscarmayer

12-11-2013, 07:57 PM

I have a 200e that we have beaten the living tar out of for the last 7 years. it probably has well over several thousands of hours of ride time on the motor. only oil ever used was Pennzoil. I'm not going to debate your scientific fact here, but I will state that the piston rings will far wear faster than the cam lobs will on these motors. I have done many motors and i hardly ever see top end issues unless they did not do proper maintenance. and that has nothing to do with oil types. so please for the love of the trike gods, GET OFF your soap box and move on?
We have better things to do than debate oils and additives with you in a tread about a newbie to trikes and motors and asking a questions about particles on first oil change.
I'm sorry if you think i'm a jerk face, but lets face it this is you going off the deep end, hell bent on trying to force some moot point down our throats. please stop. we do not want your moot point shoved any more at us. K? thanks.
have a evening.

Some bikes have no oil filter system which obviously is less than optimal, some use a centrifugal system which is still less than optimal, others use an actual filter that the oil is pumped through.

If your particular oil filter system is so great as I am interpreting the quote above to suggest, then why do you have metal in your oil since the filter system “should” filter it out?...Anyone?...Hello?...

It is my understanding, as wrong as it might be, that an oil filter is supposed to just that...filter oil. It appears that in your case, it didn’t. One of the possible reasons it didn’t other than the fact that your particular oil filter system might SUCK, is because there is actual wear occurring in your engine which is continually putting metal in the oil.

Obviously there might be a bit that does not get picked up by the system but I certainy would not extoll the "quality" of these particular systems.

I notice the use of the phrase “name brand motor oil” in the quote above as opposed to the phrase “any brand of motor oil” so I won’t address that comment specifically but instead will offer the following info.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, the use of any oil in an engine with a flat tappet camshaft will result in a shorter life of the cam and lifters than the use of a comparable oil that has ZDDP.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, a synthetic oil offers greater protection against wear than a comparable non synthetic oil.

One exception to this is on a flat tappet camshaft, where the labs as well as other sources, have proven that oils with ZDDP increase the life of this type of cam and lifters over comparable oils without ZDDP.

One of the ways they determine these things is by doing actual wear tests on different metals.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, the oil that comes from the Quaker State oil fields is of higher quality than oils that come from other areas. One of the reasons is because, for lack of a better term, it “sticks” to things better than all other crude oils. Yes, they actually have a test for this as hard as it might be to believe.

This means that due to its inherent “stickyness”, it stays on the parts longer than the other oils thereby protecting them better.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, a conventional oil filter does not filter out 100% of the contaminates in oil including metal.

It is a scientific fact proven by several test labs that in general, a "nano" filter like the ones made by Mobil, filter out smaller particles than any other non "nano" type filter.

There are a few of these scientific test reports available online if one is interested in learning more facts about oils.

barnett468

12-11-2013, 08:59 PM

The good news is that our vehicles have oil filters and most of this crud never makes it up to the top end.

I assume you haven't cleaned the God awful strainer/filter setup this bike has? It is utterly assanine the way Honda did it.

well a pinch to me is alot more then ive seen when doing oil changes maybe 1 or 2 little flakes,(never on a rebuilt motr though) but a pinch of shavings that was too much for me, but thats y i posted on here to try and gets some help/info frm u guys, u guys really helped me out.

One of the possible reasons it didn’t other than the fact that your particular oil filter system might SUCK, is because there is actual wear occurring in your engine which is continually putting metal in the oil.

Obviously there might be a bit that does not get picked up by the system but I certainly would not extoll the "quality" of these particular systems.Seems kinda self explanatory to me.

Obviously there might be a bit that does not get picked up by the system
I assume some larger fragments will never get picked up by the pump and taken to a filter.The person in the quote above obviously agrees with me.

I assume some larger fragments will never get picked up by the pump and taken to a filter. Perhaps they didn’t teach this in engineering school, but let me assure you it’s a fact.Sorry, but I’m confused, you say “I assume some larger fragments will never get picked up by the pump” followed by “let me assure you it’s a fact.”.

If I understand your comment correctly, you are “assuring" me that your “assumption” is a “fact”.

Perhaps they didn’t teach this in engineering school, but let me assure you it’s a fact.Another unwarranted, unprovoked, abrasive and sarcastic remark.

RIDE-RED 250r

12-11-2013, 09:21 PM

This is getting ridiculous....

barnett468

12-11-2013, 09:54 PM

Keep up the good work Barnett. The more we know, the better.
I've gotten some great insight from posts like these.Thank you going out of your way to say that, I greatly appreciate it. Unfortunately it seems much easier for some to criticize others than to even just say nothing at all, especially when it's not their thread.

I also thought the whole purpose of replying to a thread in this particular area of the site is to try and help the op and not to make unwarranted, unprovoked abrasive comments to others who are doing nothing more than offering suggestions, opinions or other information they think might help the op.

In my opinion, it looks to me by some of the comments made by others on this thread as well as comments I have seen on other threads, that I might be mistaken.

tri again

12-11-2013, 11:04 PM

Almost forgot.
I discovered neodymium magnets.
Size of a pencil eraser and fool around with 2 of them and they'll draw Blood!
So I bought 20 on eb and put them on all my drain plugs, incl. the rear gear oil drain on the 85+ models.
No kidding, these things will pick up a 12" crescent wrench.
Just don't use them to attach notes to your computers...may even mess up the control circuits in the fridge.

El Camexican

12-12-2013, 12:02 AM

Almost forgot. I discovered neodymium magnets.

So are you K. J. Strnat or G. Hoffer?

El Camexican

12-12-2013, 12:31 AM

Sorry, but I’m confused, you say “I assume some larger fragments will never get picked up by the pump” followed by “let me assure you it’s a fact.”. If I understand your comment correctly, you are “assuring" me that your “assumption” is a “fact”.

Actually what I wrote was as follows. Anyone who wants can look it up (no I did not edit my post)
All this means that some larger fragments will never get picked up by the pump and taken to a filter. Perhaps they didn’t teach this in engineering school, but let me assure you it’s a fact.

So what have you to say for yourself sir? Why would you completely change my sentence and try to pass it off as a quote and then belittle your own words? Are you sick? This is not normal behavior. I may have to report you to the moderators. At the very least you have removed all doubt that you have serious issues with self-importance to the point that you are willing to lie to feed them. Here’s a little free advice for you; Get help!

Mickey Dunlap

12-12-2013, 02:21 AM

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Mickey Dunlap

12-12-2013, 02:36 AM

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duck4twenty

12-12-2013, 06:21 PM

all good just changed the oil again and its clean well not clean but theres no shavings just maybe a few little particals u can barely c

barnett468

12-12-2013, 07:01 PM

all good just changed the oil again and its clean well not clean but theres no shavings just maybe a few little particals u can barely cGreat, better to be safe than sorry especially if one is uncertain whether the engine in the bike they bought was built by a pro shop or billy bob and bobby bob out in the dirt next to the still.

fallguy666

12-13-2013, 05:41 AM

Barnett468 I'm starting to get PM's and e-mails about you being some what of a dick on here again. This post still stands if you don't knock it off .

"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ,it's a duck.

I talk with a lot of people in the industry because there are a lot of us still in this industry.In talking with them they gave their view of you. Trust me I was being nice the way I said it on here. And no I'm not going to PM you. You told me to ask everyone about you and I did. Did you ever wonder why you were let go,my guess is no because you don't really hear what people are telling you so you really can't understand it. You really have no clue and you are too old to change now.

Yes I raced SaddleBack,I won the championship their for Honda in 84',The Baja Cross,Jimmy got second over all. That was the last race there.

If you want to keep posting your little dribble back and forth then I will give out your name,then they can look into your back ground a little more. I would stop now if I were you,this is not what this forum is for."

OK Mike?dang mickey,its like that huh?

Mosh

12-13-2013, 08:06 AM

Boasting about being a R+D engineer at Kawasaki during one of their worst spats of reliability , is equal to bragging about being the Plant Manager during the Chernobyl meltdown...

We still have yet to see any evidence that backs up any of these claims. I would venture a guess that something from Barnett substantiating these claims , a picture of even owning a trike , or racing one...hell even a parking lot pass that proves you were allowed in the complex...even if you were a janitor or just delivering a pizza.....

May get some folks off your back..

Mickey Dunlap

12-13-2013, 10:58 AM

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Dirtcrasher

12-13-2013, 04:50 PM

We all remember another person that quoted multiple people and stuck by his thoughts only.

He is no longer here.

This forum is here to educate people and to be humble enough to accept criticism and the possibility that YOU may be wrong.

Barnett, I have seen some of your posts that taught me a thing or two, but don't come on to a old board and act like the trike master.

I don't see Mickey flaunting his crap around, does anyone?? Pretty humble seemingly easy to get along with type of guy.....

barnett468

12-13-2013, 05:37 PM

Well, the following post from MOSH is obviously WAY off topic in my opinion, which I have recently been informed by a moderator I have a right to post, and I fail to see how it benefits turkey4twenty, the op,…Does anyone remember him?…guess not. Anyway, since MOSH, who was a moderator here and may still be, has imo, asked me for some type of response, I’m guessing, as strange as it may seem to me, that it is acceptable by the sites rules that I reply to his post on this thread. If I am wrong please feel free to delete my response to him, or I guess he can do it himself or he can just ask his wife to, I really have no idea and really don't want to know. I cannot do it myself because I do not have an edit button.

Boasting about being a R+D engineer at Kawasaki
If anyone reads all of my replies to po’s other than the ones posted on my initial thread, they will easily see that less than 1% of them have any reference to me being an engineer, ex pro racer or having worked at kawi. In other words, the op’s I reply to have absolutely no idea who I am therefore I don’t understand why anyone would think or suggest that I am boasting about anything to anyone.

during one of their worst spats of reliability ,
1. In all but a few atv and motorcycle cases, the bikes were designed, built and initially tested in Japan then sent to us for further development. This means that on these particular vehicles, we were allowed 0 input on the initial design.

2. Occasionally they would send 1 or more engineers from Japan to do design work with us on a specific project so they could do any changes we requested. This sped up the process and also allowed them to see first hand how the bikes were tested so they might better understand some of the forces involved and improve designs from there etc.

There was a major problem overheating and the clutch in the klt 110 on the prototype. They sent 4 engineers to us to fix it. The engineers thought we would ride it like a 10 year old with his first bike. Well when they saw me flogging the thing on the Saddleback baja course and bumpy hillside course at wot in 100 degree heat they nearly had a cow and instantly understood why the clutch would only last a day and also why it overheated.

3. During my time there, all race vehicles were flogged to the max around 90% of the time which included many hours in temps over 80 degrees.

All recreational/non race vehicles were flogged to the max at least 50% of the time.

They were all tested by both pro level and intermediate skill level riders with weights from 150 to 190 lbs and heights from 5’ 4” – 6’ 2”.

Both the prototypes and pre production models were tested for a minimum of 100 hours.

The early model T3 I raced was a pre production bike that had around 150 test hours on it. The main thing I did to set it up for racing was get a pipe and cyl port on the used cyl from harry klemm, had him modify the head, new rings, bigger carb, steering damper, change shock oil etc. and that’s about it. I never changed any internal gears, ignition shock or valving etc.

With the exception of the klt 110 there were never any huge reliability problems during testing of the prototypes. There were virtually 0 big problems during testing of the pre production models and any problems we did find were corrected by the time production started.

The first tecate bottomed like a pig in the rear, I was not allowed to change the leverage ratio to reduce the problem for some unknown reason, I could only change the shock valving. I spent around 50 hours trying variable rate springs with different valving and the engineers even had one rider wear a 50 lb telemetry pack to try and figure out what the problem was. We all finally agreed the best band aid was to put a super long bottoming cushion on it, nice huh? They allowed us to change it on the 85 model.

The clutch chattered but I used the best plates out of the test ones they gave me.

The engines pinged/detonated upon initial throttle application under load in the heat. This is because of the high perf eng combined to a restrictive spark arrestor muffler. To Japans credit, they refused to de-tune the thing. I spent around 50 hours along with several test parts including a head modified by harry klemm to reduce it but nothing worked. If you have a stock tecate and you replace the stock muffler with a racing one and either rejet your carb or out a 36 on it, it will haul a_s.

The magnets never flew off the flywheel even after around 300 hours of use including professional level racing abuse.

is equal to bragging about being the Plant Manager during the Chernobyl meltdown...That’s an unfair thing to say about him imo, it was not his fault, someone spilled a soda on the control panel. I know this to be true because I saw it on Saturday Night Live. They called it “The Pepsi syndrome.”.

We still have yet to see any evidence that backs up any of these claims. I would venture a guess that something from Barnett substantiating these claims , a picture of even owning a trike , or racing one...hell even a parking lot pass that proves you were allowed in the complex...even if you were a janitor or just delivering a pizza.....I am one that takes people at their word for the most degree. I also have no desire to prove anything to anyone. I don’t care in the least whether anyone believes me or not. This should be evidenced by my lack of reference to any of my history/experience in around 99% of my posts.

Boasting even if you were a janitorThat’s something I am probably NOT qualified for, way too hard of a job imo anyway.

Boasting or just delivering a pizza.Unfortunately neither that nor the beer would ever get to their destination in one piece so that one’s out to.

May get some folks off your back.As I mentioned, I don’t care and besides the only person I know that is currently “on my back” about ever working there is you.

So in brief summation:

1. I am being accused of being solely responsible for all reliability problems that did not exist after hundreds of hours of testing by myself and occasionally others which were also occasionally viewed by the engineers from Japan that originally designed the vehicle, even if those failures came way after warrantees expired and possibly didn’t occur until up to 16 years after they were sold, ok.

2. No one in US R and D had total control over any project unless it was an in house one.

3. If someone thinks they are more qualified than anyone else to do the job I did and be mentally prepared for that level of responsibility working for one of the biggest motorcycle, atv and watercraft mfg’s in the world then I suggest you simply put in an application the next time they’re hiring and I’m sure that out of around 100 applications they might receive for the job you will be the one they pick. That’s what I had to do.

Oh, I forgot, after narrowing it down to just a handful of people, the final “contestants” all ultimately went through a series of 4 interviews. Two were strictly verbal, both were to determine the level of mechanical and riding experience/ability along with personality, communication and interpersonal relationship skills we had. The other 2 were actually a riding skill and performance evaluation test on a POS Kawi KX-500 in the middle of summer on the un-prepped hard as a rock Saddleback MX course.

4. I was solely responsible for determining acceptable levels of performance for around 80% of ALL ATV’s and was jointly responsible for determining the same for around 20% of the off road bikes, around 30% of the watercraft and 100% of the new projects including the Mule.

5. I occasionally ran out of needed development time and/or parts because Japan thought the bike that looked good to them on paper would do the same in reality but in actuality, occasionally had some significant problems. This was the case with the 84 and 86 T3 test bikes and the POS T4 they produced without ANYONE’s stamp of approval from US R and D including mine.

6. Since you want to talk about "unreliable", then how about the Honda cdi boxes for starters. Kbonly has helped literally over 75 people on this site alone telling them how to fix their "reliable" ole' Honda when the cdi box goes out by buying a $5.00 cdi off ebay and explaining to them how to wire it up.

There are 4 threads in the last week alone with ignition problems and likely a few hundred in just the last few years. Simply type "cdi" into the search box, lol.

Let's also not forget about how many HONDA shift bosses have broken off the engine case too.

RIDE-RED 250r

12-13-2013, 05:54 PM

Still running OEM CDI's in all of my Hondas. Whether or not they are the 25+ year old originals, I do not know. But they aren't very new! LOL!

Most any bike or ATV engine runs the risk of sustaining damage due to a violent chain derailment. None are exempt. No particular brand is to blame. Most times the blame is on the rider for running an overly sloppy chain and/or bad axle and/or swingarm bearings.

rg97

12-13-2013, 06:22 PM

For God's sake, can we PLEASE get this locked or closed... I'm tired of it, and EVERYONE else is too. I'm not taking any sides here, but I'm sure that the OP would not want all of this, from a simple rebuilt engine query. We all need to grow up a little! Step back, take a deep breath, and STOP

El Camexican

12-13-2013, 06:22 PM

El Camexican

12-13-2013, 06:27 PM

Barnett, I’m still waiting for you to explain why you completely changed my sentence a few posts back in order to tear it apart. Seems you have plenty of time to type, but you’re lacking the testicular fortitude to explain that. Let’s hear it big boy, how do you justify your lie?

Mosh

12-14-2013, 10:43 AM

Okay I can do post breakdown too. I am going to get up on my soapbox here and just tell it like I see it. I don't really care if I get reprimanded for it, but I feel the un-silent majority rule should apply here with you, and I will be their volunteery spokesman.
And I appologize to the OP for this thread just going way wrong, but it was on that approach before I posted a comment strictly for comical relief.

Well, the following post from MOSH is obviously WAY off topic in my opinion, which I have recently been informed by a moderator I have a right to post, and I fail to see how it benefits turkey4twenty, the op,…Does anyone remember him?…guess not. Anyway, since MOSH, who was a moderator here and may still be, has imo, asked me for some type of response, I’m guessing, as strange as it may seem to me, that it is acceptable by the sites rules that I reply to his post on this thread. If I am wrong please feel free to delete my response to him, or I guess he can do it himself or he can just ask his wife to, I really have no idea and really don't want to know. I cannot do it myself because I do not have an edit button. I used to be a moderator. I quit due to a number of reasons that I will not discuss, but I can assure you that you were one of the reasons. After 6 years of doing a thankless, mind numbing job there was zero patience left for you. Personally I would have flat out banned you on week one, and even pushed for it, but met resistance with other staff members for my desire to throw your BS spouting ass to the curb. So I can assure you that I am no longer a moderator with edit or ban abilities or this discussion would not even be happening.;)
Now to follow up with my wife still being on board, she does not have the capacity or endorsement for the position she used to IMHO, and mostly I am to blame for that. So she is very careful to tread lightly and not twist or bend rules in my/our favor, But I can assure you that your 88 friggin PM's whining to her over the last 6 months has gotten a little old. She used to babysit 3 year old kids and could calm down pretty fast. But you sir cry and whine more than all of them with a case of the green pea runs. Can any of you imagine being in the woods hunting for 3 days and your phone vibrating PM alerts some 13 times in 24 hours while you are trying to get a deer? I would have shot my phone if it was me.:crazy:

I am one that takes people at their word for the most degree. I also have no desire to prove anything to anyone. I don’t care in the least whether anyone believes me or not. This should be evidenced by my lack of reference to any of my history/experience in around 99% of my posts.

If anyone reads all of my replies to po’s other than the ones posted on my initial thread, they will easily see that less than 1% of them have any reference to me being an engineer, ex pro racer or having worked at kawi. In other words, the op’s I reply to have absolutely no idea who I am therefore I don’t understand why anyone would think or suggest that I am boasting about anything to anyone. Uhh wrong..
Your first thread was nothing but a "Hey look at me escalate my hero status"..
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/152985-kawasaki-factory-r-and-d-engineer-and-rider

People come on here and ask you about known problems with Tecate's and you act like a deer in headlights to the most common failures anyone has seen.
You were asked repeatedly to identify yourself, which you never did. You tout yourself as some former big wig in the industry. All I can think of is, why is this guy that was a R+D guy for Kawi, screen named after a well known clutch company, and so unwilling to disclose information or provide proof of who you are?
Let me give you a clue..You have no EDIT button because people don't want you to be able to go back and change your LIES..
Mr, NOT FOR PUBLICATION, NOT FOR Reprint.
What is next? "Batteries not included" wtf?

3. If someone thinks they are more qualified than anyone else to do the job I did and be mentally prepared for that level of responsibility working for one of the biggest motorcycle, atv and watercraft mfg’s in the world then I suggest you simply put in an application the next time they’re hiring and I’m sure that out of around 100 applications they might receive for the job you will be the one they pick. That’s what I had to do. Holy run on sentence...Was that a prerequisite?

Oh, I forgot, after narrowing it down to just a handful of people, the final “contestants” all ultimately went through a series of 4 interviews. Two were strictly verbal, both were to determine the level of mechanical and riding experience/ability along with personality, communication and interpersonal relationship skills we had. The other 2 were actually a riding skill and performance evaluation test on a POS Kawi KX-500 in the middle of summer on the un-prepped hard as a rock Saddleback MX course.
Well good for you..I guess everyone in this whole community is a bunch of 5th grade educated morons that could never apply for, or even be up to par for a job at KAWI or Honda. We are all just a bunch of idiots are we not?

We have guys on here that have undone shotty engineering overlooked by the "elite applicant's", re made parts that were long gone, and ramped up levels of performance and engine tuning that I am sure some of those old Mechanics for the factories would love to run on their machines. But these guys here are all "too inadequate" to even apply for a job like that..I guess we will all continue to just mop the bathrooms at Subway.

I am just an internet hick. I have a killer set of tools (If you can hear my Spacolly voice from Fast Times). I am nothing special, probably more hated than loved. I build bikes, but I do not re invent the wheel. I have posted pics of my interaction in this sport over the last 8-9 years, riding, racing, builds, products, hanging out with major players in the industry, and try to help someone when I think I can.
You come on here and tell people to adjust their timing on a machine with no timing adjustment. Then get all butthurt when someone disagrees with your post and call for them to be banned for a disagreement with no mal-intent.
To me you just are a web crawler. You read a question, google it, then copy and paste a bunch of info that someone else wrote, but have the audacity to type things like "NOT FOR REPRINT or PUBLICATION"
There was one psychopath I have had the displeasure of encountering on the net. You make number two..

The beauty of not being a mod anymore is now I can exploit my IGNORE list.
I say good day to you and go piss up a rope..

duck4twenty

12-14-2013, 01:25 PM

Whoa lol maybe I should change the thread title

Mickey Dunlap

12-14-2013, 02:03 PM

[*******************

atc007

12-14-2013, 02:24 PM

The good thing out of all this is you have a good motor! :w00t: The bad news is, just like your oil there is a little crap in it too!:lol:

That is a freakin CLASSIC right there :)

barnett468

12-14-2013, 09:26 PM

After this I will no longer reply to your posts on this thread and have no desire to anger you or anyone else like others seem to like to. I again apologize to duck4twenty as I also did in a PM I sent him yesterday for any off topic replies I made to other peoples off topic replies on his thread.

I was thanked a total of 12 times for 7 different posts by 5 different people in this thread. 5 of those times were by the op on 5 separate posts.

You along with several others were not thanked by the op at all. I am not certain why.

Did the op thank anyone for any of the negative posts? No!

Have I threatened anyone on this thread? No!

Have I called anyone names on this thread? No!

Even though you [and a possibly a few others in particular] have posted on this thread, have either you or they posted anything that is even remotely relative to the op's question/problem? No!

Have I been threatened by someone on this thread? Yes!

Have I tried to help the duck4twenty [the OP] on several occasions on this thread? Yes!

Did the op thank me several times for some of my? Yes?

Did others thank me for some of my posts? Yes!

I am nothing special, probably more hated than loved.Ok.

Let me give you a clue..You have no EDIT button because people don't want you to be able to go back and change your LIES..

This is INACCURATE, I HAVE NEVER POSTED A LIE HERE, I challenge you to PROVE it which is obviously IMPOSSIBLE because it NEVER HAPPENED.

Quoting LIES, inaccurate and/or out of context info one might have seen posted here or that one received in a PM, phone call or email etc. is NOT proof so you will have to do much better than that.

First you challenged my comment that I worked at Kawi in a way that sounded to me like you thought I was lying about it and suggested I "prove" it. Now that you have the "proof" per se that you suggested I provide, you have now decided to try something else to discredit me by simply coming straight out and calling me a liar but providing NO PROOF.

You have also made other negative claims about me that are contained in this post which I have also proven to be inaccurate.

These comments which imo are "attacks" on me seem extremely unfair and unjustified imo to say the least.

Fortunately I lack the capacity to understand why anyone would be bold enough to call another a liar here for ANY reason unless the one being called a liar was personally attacked by another who was making inaccurate claims about them like has been done to me here and that person said it in a rebuttal which I have still NOT done BECAUSE I prefer to use the term "inaccurate".

I also was not raised to lie and see no purpose for it unless some mugger wants to know where the rest of my family is etc..

Then get all butthurt when someone disagrees with your post…I never get get "all butthurt" when someone disagrees with any post I made. To the CONTRARY, I made it BLATANTLY clear in a PM I sent to a moderator recently that I could care less if someone disagrees with my opinions.

I have also found over the years, that simply telling someone that my but was hurting never seemed to relieve any pain I had and that Preparation H seemed to do a much better job.

The following is part of that PM.

“I could care less if someone does not agree with my opinions. It does not upset me or bother me in the least. I do not “attack” people for differing with my opinions. Contrary to how you might interpret my posts, I am almost impossible to p__s off.”

and call for them to be banned for a disagreement with no mal-intent.

This is INACCURATE. NO SUCH THING EVER OCCURRED. To the CONTRARY I recently made it BLATANTLY clear that I did NOT want anyone banned now nor have I ever. The following is part of a reply I recently sent to a moderator.

“I did not ask for you to ban anyone,…I think he or anyone should be warned first prior to being banned, contrary to some peoples belief, I am not an a hole.”

There is another member here that referred to a specific race of people in an extremely negative way around 6 months ago and also referred to their race using an extremely derogatory word. I DID take EXTREME exception to this at the time and DID notify a moderator who erased the post entirely and even though this particular post did bother me I do not recall asking for that member to be banned either.

Boasting about being a R+D engineer at Kawasaki…
We still have yet to see any evidence that backs up any of these claims…

If anyone reads all of my replies to po’s other than the ones posted on my initial thread, they will easily see that less than 1% of them have any reference to me being an engineer, ex pro racer or having worked at kawi. In other words, the op’s I reply to have absolutely no idea who I am therefore I don’t understand why anyone would think or suggest that I am boasting about anything to anyone.

Uhh wrong..
Your first thread was nothing but a "Hey look at me escalate my hero status"..

Your post immediately above suggests to me that you either did not happen to see the following comment in my post above that one, [which is the one you are referring to] or you did not understand what I was saying. I apologize if it was unclear. I was referring to all posts I made with the EXCEPTION of the one you are pointing out.

…other than the ones posted on my initial thread, …

…other than the 3. If someone thinks they are more qualified than anyone else to do the job I did and be mentally prepared for that level of responsibility working for one of the biggest motorcycle, atv and watercraft mfg’s in the world then I suggest you simply put in an application the next time they’re hiring and I’m sure that out of around 100 applications they might receive for the job you will be the one they pick. That’s what I had to do.

I guess everyone in this whole community is a bunch of 5th grade educated morons that could never apply for, or even be up to par for a job at KAWI or Honda. We are all just a bunch of idiots are we not?This in an extreme exaggeration imo and is NOT what I was implying at all. The general point of the comment I made regarding this seems clear and simple imo which is, It is not as EASY to get a job there as it seemed to me you were making it sound like. This is due to their extremely high standards, or at least they were for the specific position I applied for.

They placed an ad for the job in Cycle News and the local paper. I can assure you that even though there was a mass of unqualified applicants there were also MANY other highly qualified ones. One if them was a friend if mine I hadn't seen for around 10 years. I felt EXTREMELY fortunate to get it.

I had to meet ALL of the following requirements:

1. be a top intermediate or higher level motorcycle rider. I was a pro.

2. have at least around 5 years of motorcycle riding experience. I had around 16,

3. have several years of professional level mechanical experience.

4. show job stability by being at the same job for several years. This is because they did not want to hire someone after all this effort on their part then have them leave shortly after.

5. have good verbal/communication skills. This meant to be articulate and in general be able to explain something that can be done in a few brief sentences, in those few sentences instead of taking ten minutes to say something simple like "The cylinder seized because it was run with too lean of an oil/fuel mix etc..

6. have at least some type of report writing skills. I had fairly extensive report writing skills and studied technical report writing.

7. have at least some type of fabrication skills. I had fairly extensive fabrication experience.

8. have extremely good vehicle evaluations skills. I was a pro rider and had done a ton of testing on my own bikes over the years to see what worked best.

They set up the lovely KX 500 I referred to in an earlier post with a few problems. Well the pos had problems when it was set up as best it could be so it was an even worse pos when they were done.

Since it was a high perf bike designed for high perf riding we all had to be able to ride it at least close to the speed it was intended to be ridden at.

In other words you can’t have a slow rider testing a bike that will be sold to pros. I was the only pro there but the others weren’t terribly slow and did a good job just to hold onto the pig.

After all of us had ridden it we were asked individually what we thought was wrong and how we would go about fixing it.

We also had to be articulate and technical in our description, which basically meant we could not say “Well ya know man, the rear shock like really sucks on that thing ya know, it beats the livin c__p outa me when I hit the bumps so it needs to be softer.”.

They preferred something like, “The rear shock feels harsh when hitting sharp edged holes. It doesn’t feel like it compresses enough and kicks the back of the bike up. I think it needs the compression damping reduced [or spring rate and/or rebound damping if that’s what it feels like etc]

Many pro level riders aren’t as good as one might think about knowing what changes they should make to improve their bikes handling or how to describe the problems etc. I know more than a few that are like that and all were faster than I was.

So since it sounded to me like you think it wasn’t as hard as I might of made it seem for someone to get that particular job or similar and then made a comment about a janitor and pizza man I thought it might be helpful if I elaborated a bit.

PS - I am grateful to have the privilege to post on this site and do not take it for granted. I am aware that I or anyone here can be banned for however long the site overseers want for absolutely no reason at all because there is no law that prevents them from doing so.

I simply want to keep trying to help those that I think I might be able to.

El Camexican

12-14-2013, 09:46 PM

I never get get "all butthurt"
I guess you can attribute that to using the proper oil
Sorry, didn’t correct your “get get” typo. Changing someone’s post would be unethical like lying. Wouldn’t want to stoop to your level.

http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y434/lucky1366/1975%20Kawasaki/Crying-girl1_zps0684f9fb.jpg (http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/lucky1366/media/1975%20Kawasaki/Crying-girl1_zps0684f9fb.jpg.html)

fabiodriven

12-14-2013, 10:02 PM

Barnett you suck. I'm sorry but I've been skipping over everything you write since about two weeks after you got here. If I were you, I'd be looking into some sort of political career specializing in filibustering. You're about as long winded as my arse in the wee hours of the morning but not nearly as entertaining.

Mosh

12-14-2013, 10:29 PM

After this I will no longer reply to your posts on this thread and have no desire to anger you or anyone else like others seem to like to. I again apologize to duck4twenty as I also did in a PM I sent him yesterday for any off topic replies I made to other peoples off topic replies on his thread.

I was thanked a total of 12 times for 7 different posts by 5 different people in this thread. 5 of those times were by the op on 5 separate posts.

You along with several others were not thanked by the op at all. I am not certain why.

Did the op thank anyone for any of the negative posts? No!

Have I threatened anyone on this thread? No!

Have I called anyone names on this thread? No!

Even though you [and a possibly a few others in particular] have posted on this thread, have either you or they posted anything that is even remotely relative to the op's question/problem? No!

Have I been threatened by someone on this thread? Yes!

Have I tried to help the duck4twenty [the OP] on several occasions on this thread? Yes!

Did the op thank me several times for some of my? Yes?

Did others thank me for some of my posts? Yes!

Ok.

This is INACCURATE, I HAVE NEVER POSTED A LIE HERE, I challenge you to PROVE it which is obviously IMPOSSIBLE because it NEVER HAPPENED.

Quoting LIES, inaccurate and/or out of context info one might have seen posted here or that one received in a PM, phone call or email etc. is NOT proof so you will have to do much better than that.

First you challenged my comment that I worked at Kawi in a way that sounded to me like you thought I was lying about it and suggested I "prove" it. Now that you have the "proof" per se that you suggested I provide, you have now decided to try something else to discredit me by simply coming straight out and calling me a liar but providing NO PROOF.

You have also made other negative claims about me that are contained in this post which I have also proven to be inaccurate.

These comments which imo are "attacks" on me seem extremely unfair and unjustified imo to say the least.

Fortunately I lack the capacity to understand why anyone would be bold enough to call another a liar here for ANY reason unless the one being called a liar was personally attacked by another who was making inaccurate claims about them like has been done to me here and that person said it in a rebuttal which I have still NOT done BECAUSE I prefer to use the term "inaccurate".

I also was not raised to lie and see no purpose for it unless some mugger wants to know where the rest of my family is etc..

I never get get "all butthurt" when someone disagrees with any post I made. To the CONTRARY, I made it BLATANTLY clear in a PM I sent to a moderator recently that I could care less if someone disagrees with my opinions.

I have also found over the years, that simply telling someone that my but was hurting never seemed to relieve any pain I had and that Preparation H seemed to do a much better job.

The following is part of that PM.

“I could care less if someone does not agree with my opinions. It does not upset me or bother me in the least. I do not “attack” people for differing with my opinions. Contrary to how you might interpret my posts, I am almost impossible to p__s off.”

This is INACCURATE. NO SUCH THING EVER OCCURRED. To the CONTRARY I recently made it BLATANTLY clear that I did NOT want anyone banned now nor have I ever. The following is part of a reply I recently sent to a moderator.

“I did not ask for you to ban anyone,…I think he or anyone should be warned first prior to being banned, contrary to some peoples belief, I am not an a hole.”

There is another member here that referred to a specific race of people in an extremely negative way around 6 months ago and also referred to their race using an extremely derogatory word. I DID take EXTREME exception to this at the time and DID notify a moderator who erased the post entirely and even though this particular post did bother me I do not recall asking for that member to be banned either.

Your post immediately above suggests to me that you either did not happen to see the following comment in my post above that one, [which is the one you are referring to] or you did not understand what I was saying. I apologize if it was unclear. I was referring to all posts I made with the EXCEPTION of the one you are pointing out.

This in an extreme exaggeration imo and is NOT what I was implying at all. The general point of the comment I made regarding this seems clear and simple imo which is, It is not as EASY to get a job there as it seemed to me you were making it sound like. This is due to their extremely high standards, or at least they were for the specific position I applied for.

They placed an ad for the job in Cycle News and the local paper. I can assure you that even though there was a mass of unqualified applicants there were also MANY other highly qualified ones. One if them was a friend if mine I hadn't seen for around 10 years. I felt EXTREMELY fortunate to get it.

I had to meet ALL of the following requirements:

1. be a top intermediate or higher level motorcycle rider. I was a pro.

2. have at least around 5 years of motorcycle riding experience. I had around 16,

3. have several years of professional level mechanical experience.

4. show job stability by being at the same job for several years. This is because they did not want to hire someone after all this effort on their part then have them leave shortly after.

5. have good verbal/communication skills. This meant to be articulate and in general be able to explain something that can be done in a few brief sentences, in those few sentences instead of taking ten minutes to say something simple like "The cylinder seized because it was run with too lean of an oil/fuel mix etc..

6. have at least some type of report writing skills. I had fairly extensive report writing skills and studied technical report writing.

7. have at least some type of fabrication skills. I had fairly extensive fabrication experience.

8. have extremely good vehicle evaluations skills. I was a pro rider and had done a ton of testing on my own bikes over the years to see what worked best.

They set up the lovely KX 500 I referred to in an earlier post with a few problems. Well the pos had problems when it was set up as best it could be so it was an even worse pos when they were done.

Since it was a high perf bike designed for high perf riding we all had to be able to ride it at least close to the speed it was intended to be ridden at.

In other words you can’t have a slow rider testing a bike that will be sold to pros. I was the only pro there but the others weren’t terribly slow and did a good job just to hold onto the pig.

After all of us had ridden it we were asked individually what we thought was wrong and how we would go about fixing it.

We also had to be articulate and technical in our description, which basically meant we could not say “Well ya know man, the rear shock like really sucks on that thing ya know, it beats the livin c__p outa me when I hit the bumps so it needs to be softer.”.

They preferred something like, “The rear shock feels harsh when hitting sharp edged holes. It doesn’t feel like it compresses enough and kicks the back of the bike up. I think it needs the compression damping reduced [or spring rate and/or rebound damping if that’s what it feels like etc]

Many pro level riders aren’t as good as one might think about knowing what changes they should make to improve their bikes handling or how to describe the problems etc. I know more than a few that are like that and all were faster than I was.

So since it sounded to me like you think it wasn’t as hard as I might of made it seem for someone to get that particular job or similar and then made a comment about a janitor and pizza man I thought it might be helpful if I elaborated a bit.

PS - I am grateful to have the privilege to post on this site and do not take it for granted. I am aware that I or anyone here can be banned for however long the site overseers want for absolutely no reason at all because there is no law that prevents them from doing so.

I simply want to keep trying to help those that I think I might be able to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

bkm

12-14-2013, 10:32 PM

Mosh, I approve of the advise you gave to barnett in your last sentence.

RIDE-RED 250r

12-14-2013, 10:32 PM

EPIC Mosh!! LMAO! :w00t::Bounce

El Camexican

12-14-2013, 11:45 PM

EPIC Mosh!! LMAO! :w00t::Bounce

That clip just made me buy the DVD!

barnett468

12-15-2013, 01:24 AM

I say good day to you and go piss up a rope..

Mosh, I approve of the advise you gave to barnett in your last sentence.

Unfortunately, do to a significantly reduced urine flow caused by an enlargred prostate, I am unable to comply with your request.

82 250r

12-15-2013, 04:55 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

I don't care who ya are...THAT'S FUNNY!

Mickey Dunlap

12-15-2013, 06:53 AM

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