350x/250es Ski Build

[kebby28]

So ever since I saw the ski scootertrash built I have been dreaming of making my own. Mostly so I can steer out ice fishing. I finally got all the parts together today and went to town. Keep in mind I studied scootertrash's pictures and tried to get it close.

I ran out of time today. I still have to cut the top of the frame down and cap it and then paint.
Not sure if I should paint the frame red and ski black or vise verse.

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[kebby28]

I want to put a wider plastic ski on there eventually but I picked this one up for $20. All I can afford right now.

[redsox]

i like it. 2 questions. what did you use for a ski? how do you get that axel out of the fork?

[kebby28]

I think its like a late 90's arctic cat ski.
I'm not sure what you mean about the axle. It comes apart pretty quick.

[kebby28]

i like it. 2 questions. what did you use for a ski? how do you get that axel out of the fork?

I see what you mean. I looks like I welded the axle into the frame. Its actually a pipe that the axle slides into snug that goes all the way through the frame.

[kebby28]

Done! Works awesome! Travels through the deep snow 10 times better and steers on the dime.

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This is going to be my next project with my old tires/rims and snowmobile tracks.

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[kebby28]

So I got it out on the ice today. I love it but my skeg has some pretty aggressive carbides on it. I'm going to try to grind them down to make them a little smoother. I think its because there is allot of weight on the one ski. Steers awesome though. Tested it out slow for a while to make sure my welds were good. I don't think it would be pretty if it broke off at high speeds. But I did get to go full bore after a while. A lot of fun.

I'm surprised no one is commenting on this thread.?.?
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[Scootertrash]

The ski darts so much because there's only one ski. If there was another ski 2 1/2 feet away along side of it, like on a sled, it wouldn't dart so bad.

If you grind the carbide flatter, post an update. I think flattening out the "V" on the carbide might help, but I would go a little at a time until you get the desired result. Too much and the flat spot would be too wide and you'd lose turning quality.

I switched to a 4 inch carbide instead of a 6 inch and it helped a little, but it still darts when on hard pack, even worse on a packed-snow covered road, probably because I'm grabbing blacktop from time to time. I'm able to do donuts on ice and not have the ski slip or slide.

Got a link to some info on that track setup?


ETA:I had the same type type of design for the 350X forks for clamping at the top of the shock, but I was gonna use something a little more heavy duty than muffler clamps. Keep us posted on how they hold up.

[kebby28]

ETA:I had the same type type of design for the 350X forks for clamping at the top of the shock, but I was gonna use something a little more heavy duty than muffler clamps. Keep us posted on how they hold up.

I was hoping you would chime in on this. The top clamps is where I was scratching my head. I had no idea how I was going to do it but I happened to have the clamps leftover from a muffler job and I held them in place and it just lined up perfect. I'm thinking they will hold good. The welds took nice. It is kinda sketchy going fast with this having an idea what would happen if it snapped.

I forget where I saw the track wheel. A link on here I think. $900 for the pair though!

[afdfirefighter]

I was hoping you would chime in on this. The top clamps is where I was scratching my head. I had no idea how I was going to do it but I happened to have the clamps leftover from a muffler job and I held them in place and it just lined up perfect. I'm thinking they will hold good. The welds took nice. It is kinda sketchy going fast with this having an idea what would happen if it snapped.

I forget where I saw the track wheel. A link on here I think. $900 for the pair though!

If you happen to find the link for the track wheel please pm that to me. I am getting ready to put dual skis on my 250es and was going to put snowmobile tracks on it but this is a much better idea. Love the big red man!!

[tri again]

So I got it out on the ice today. I love it but my skeg has some pretty aggressive carbides on it. I'm going to try to grind them down to make them a little smoother. I think its because there is allot of weight on the one ski. Steers awesome though. Tested it out slow for a while to make sure my welds were good. I don't think it would be pretty if it broke off at high speeds. But I did get to go full bore after a while. A lot of fun.

I'm surprised no one is commenting on this thread.?.?
183149

Lots of folks still on vacation?
Millions without power too.
Glad you found something fun to do.
I remember an old Heathkit minibike with some sort of front ski 'option', probably from the 60's or 70's. I'll try to look.
Yeah, neighbor lost a front wheel somehow and lucky enough to do a complete flip and land back on the wheels when the forks dug in.
How could your welds be failsafed? I mean, since you mentioned it a couple times.

History channel told how buttons broke in the sub freezing weather when Napolean invaded Russia. Honestly the main reason they lost was freakin' Button failure.
History channel a couple days ago.

[tri again]

i like it. 2 questions. what did you use for a ski? how do you get that axel out of the fork?

You mean where the axle threads into the aluminum?
Yes, the axle can sieze into the aluminum. Now I walk around all the trikes with liq wrench once a month or so and my last one unscrewed but the sleeve (spacer sleeve?) on the axle itself had siezed to the axle. BUT I was able to weasel it out of there with about .020" to spare by spreading the forks.
Maybe that was NOT your question but a consideration for sure.

[TecateDan]

Okay I want some info on the converted snowmobile track tires !!!!!

[afdfirefighter]

Okay I want some info on the converted snowmobile track tires !!!!!

Was talking to a buddy.... He said what's the difference in those and using a big bar tread like the one attached. Would it really be that big of a difference? Anyone have any experience?
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[Dave Little]

Wouldn't track tires still prohibit you from using sled trails? They would around here.

[Caminofeld]

Awesome build! IMHO I'd stick with the aggressive rubbers over the track-tires. Prob not too much of a difference with traction and what if you had to negotiate some asphalt at some point? For the $900 price I'd save my cash and spend it on another trike.

[Scootertrash]

Well, mud tires aren't necessarily snow tires. At least from what I understand.
Here is a snow tire:
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You want to stay on top of the snow as much as possible, hence the track on a snowmobile. Wide and flat. (Heh. Reminds me of a girl I woke up next to after a good party one time.:naughty:) Mud tires chew. The paddles on a snow or sand tire are more like scoops and help to climb on top of the snow (or sand).

Anywhoooo.....My buddy's little brother did this on his 350X. I'm not sure why, but the pics may be a little distorted.:
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He says he can go anywhere like this. The "ski" set up he tried was to take a snowmobile skid plate and cut a hole in it for the tire to fit thru so he had a tire or a "ski". He said it didn't work. I'm not sure how he had the skid plate mounted, but I think the skid plate would be too flexible.
He used an old snowmobile track with 2 inch paddles that he got for free. let the air out of the tires, cut the track to fit, bolted the ends together, then aired up the tires to hold the track on. He says he can pop wheelies in third and shoot big a** roosters if he wants.

[kebby28]

Anywhoooo.....My buddy's little brother did this on his 350X. I'm not sure why, but the pics may be a little distorted.:
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Thats what i'm working on there with old snowmobile tracks. I have a set of woolyboogers on rims ready to do this to.

[CRAZY70MAN]

Well, mud tires aren't necessarily snow tires. At least from what I understand.
Here is a snow tire:
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You want to stay on top of the snow as much as possible, hence the track on a snowmobile. Wide and flat. (Heh. Reminds me of a girl I woke up next to after a good party one time.:naughty:) Mud tires chew. The paddles on a snow or sand tire are more like scoops and help to climb on top of the snow (or sand).

Anywhoooo.....My buddy's little brother did this on his 350X. I'm not sure why, but the pics may be a little distorted.:
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He says he can go anywhere like this. The "ski" set up he tried was to take a snowmobile skid plate and cut a hole in it for the tire to fit thru so he had a tire or a "ski". He said it didn't work. I'm not sure how he had the skid plate mounted, but I think the skid plate would be too flexible.
He used an old snowmobile track with 2 inch paddles that he got for free. let the air out of the tires, cut the track to fit, bolted the ends together, then aired up the tires to hold the track on. He says he can pop wheelies in third and shoot big a** roosters if he wants.

Now that is awesome!!! I always wondered if it had been done??? Been thinking of doing it myself. I love that front design! Just like the bush planes on a show I watched to land or take off in snow........ thanks for the pics..

[kebby28]

I have been looking at the 4-snows for months now. I'm just weary about spending the money on them. The treads don't look very deep and it doesn't look like they can be studded. They do look light though.

[Scootertrash]

The 4-Snows work very well in snow because, well, they were designed for snow ;) You don't want aggressive treads for snow, you'll chew yourself down and get stuck faster. That's why the tread is a shallow scoop shape, to help you climb on top of the snow, not chew through the snow to the ground for traction. Some guys use Sand paddle tires, but I've heard from others here that the 4-snopw does almost or just as well as a sand paddle tire, I've never personally tried it, just going by what I was told here. Even at that they have their limitations, like any other tire. After the snow gets deeper than a few inches the 4-snows work better in snow than my bear claws. I'm not sure about studding, but according to Maxxis if you turn the tire around (or simply switch sides on the trike)they are designed to get better traction on ice. I can't verify that since most of our ice is snow covered and I can always find some traction by changing my route, so I haven't bothered trying reversing the tread.

From Maxxis:

For improved acceleration, the Maxxis 4-Snow expands up to 40% during use. It features a reversible tread design for optimum traction on snow and ice. The soft compound remains flexible in cold weather for better grip.

Tire diameter expands up to 40% during acceleration for additional traction and ground clearance; reduces the need for shifting
Reversible tread design offers optimum traction: Use the scoop side for snow and back side for increased surface contact on ice
Special soft compound stays flexible in cold weather for amazing grip and a smooth ride
Drag racer’s first tire choice on ice, snow and pure sand

[kebby28]

Got her out fishing today. Before I headed out I grinded down the front of the carbide a little bit and it was a major improvement. This thing is so much fun out there. I did notice that my steering bearings are shot. I don't know if this just happened or had been that way...?

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[Scootertrash]

How much did you grind off of the carbide?

[kebby28]

Only a little bit. The carbide was kinda square in the front so I rounded it so it would glide better.

I want to weld up some sort of a steering stabilizer so when I wheelie the ski stays straight.

I also rolled it upside down this afternoon messing around on a snow bank. Just came down it at an angle and it went right over. The thing was laying on its handlebars and rack. I felt like such an idiot! :(

[redsox]

the 4snos are so much better in snow than the bear claws. not even in the same catagory. not even close. i want to order a ski. what do i order?

[kebby28]

I would say if you have the money order a wide plastic ski. It doesnt have to be too long either

[fabiodriven]

4 Snows will not be beat by any mud tire in the snow, not even a chance. As Scooter said, they're designed for snow. Nobody is less than amazed after having used them.

[Scootertrash]

the 4snos are so much better in snow than the bear claws. not even in the same catagory. not even close. i want to order a ski. what do i order?

If you just want a single ski, You may have to order an OEM ski from whatever sled manufacturer you want, either that or get a used one off of ebay or craigslist. I use a Camoplast All Terrain ski, 7 inches wide by 41 inches long. They also make a touring ski that is 5 inches by 39 inches. Buuut.. You have to order them as a pair, then you also have to order the mount kit for your sled and order the carbides.

kebby:
What do you mean your ski doesn't stay straight when you wheelie?

[kebby28]

kebby:
What do you mean your ski doesn't stay straight when you wheelie?

When I lift the front end the front of the ski just drops. I didn't have a spindle to use with rubber dampeners, so my square stock just goes down to the ski with a bolt through it. I rounded the square stock and capped it, so the ski can go all the way up and touch the fender or all the way back...

[wonderboy]

When I lift the front end the front of the ski just drops. I didn't have a spindle to use with rubber dampeners, so my square stock just goes down to the ski with a bolt through it. I rounded the square stock and capped it, so the ski can go all the way up and touch the fender or all the way back...

As a quick fix, you could probably just use a couple limit straps. One in front, one in back. Leave enough slack in them to allow a certain amount of pitching of the ski, but short enough to stop the ski from flipping all the way around.

I do have a question (sorry if it was discussed earlier in the thread): Did you experiment and find the best attachment point for the ski to be so far back, or is this what worked out? At first glance, it seems to me to be too far back on the ski. Would it be better to fix your post to the ski more at the midpoint, so there is the same amount of ski in front of and behind the attachment point?

[kebby28]

I do have a question (sorry if it was discussed earlier in the thread): Did you experiment and find the best attachment point for the ski to be so far back, or is this what worked out? At first glance, it seems to me to be too far back on the ski. Would it be better to fix your post to the ski more at the midpoint, so there is the same amount of ski in front of and behind the attachment point?

Good question. I just put it where the hole already was and the ski was designed for. I am happy with it as far as that goes so I don't think I would change it.

[Scootertrash]

I do have a question (sorry if it was discussed earlier in the thread): Did you experiment and find the best attachment point for the ski to be so far back, or is this what worked out? At first glance, it seems to me to be too far back on the ski. Would it be better to fix your post to the ski more at the midpoint, so there is the same amount of ski in front of and behind the attachment point?

OK, so I'm not an engineer, I don't play one on TV, and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night. This is just my take on the design based on my many years of experience of missteps, mistakes and wrecking stuff that other guys smarter than me designed. ;)

When I designed my ski I used pretty much everything as it was designed by the manufacturers of the parts I used. The mounting point for the ski was predetermined by the engineers of the ski and/or the snowmobile manufacturers. The mounting point on the ski and the location of the wear bar combine to keep the weight of the machine over the carbide so the carbide "bites" on hardpack and ice. In powder and softer snow the keel provides the "bite" for steering. Older skis didn't have much for a keel and the ski would push in a hard turn sometimes when in powder. That's why I went with the Camoplast ski, it has a 7/8 inch keel on it.

I believe the reason for the longer portion of the ski being in front of the mount allows the ski to travel up and over bumps, snowbanks, etc, easier that if it was shorter out front. Ice racing sleds have very short skis, but they are just racing around a flat track. No bumps, banks, etc.
I also wanted to maintain the stock rake of the forks when I installed the ski, that's why the main downtube for the ski is parallel to the forks. If you look at a snowmobile, the ski spindles also have some rake to them, which looked very close to the rake on my 200S.

[wonderboy]

I didnt' realize you guys were just using the stock location for the mounting. Scootertrash, yours looks like I'd expect (in the pic immediately above). One of the pics of kebby28's on the second page of this thread (out on the ice with the trailer in tow) looks like there is 3 feet of ski in front of the mounting location and only a few inches of ski behind it. I'm guessing that there must just be snow obscuring the rear portion of the ski...

edit: yea, I just looked at the first page again at the initial build pics and see the mounting location very clearly. I guess my perception is just off a bit, I'm used to looking at the skis on my snow machines and it seems like the mounting position is just a bit more forward.

Cool build though, very nice!

[Scootertrash]

I also welded the ski mount end of a ski spindle on the end of my downtube so that the rubber bumper under the ski would limit the tipping of the ski like it was designed.

I'll try to get more pics up today. Been busy with work, cars breakin down, saving the world, etc. Haven't had time to pursue my fun projects. :I

[kebby28]

Well, I took it to the next level...
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I should have it finished tomorrow after work!

[emmie357]

Can't wait for a ride report :naughty:

[Scootertrash]

Kebby you beat me to it I don't have a 200X I have 200S so I dont have a rear suspensionon the track wont workout on mine so yeah let's hear it works like a video dude

[kebby28]

http://youtu.be/UqBD-zrPI1k

[kebby28]

I wish my track had some deeper treads. I think that would make a big difference. It also has been raining all week and the snow sucks.

[kebby28]

Just bumping this up in case someone was interested.

[Scootertrash]

Your video doesn't work on my phone
Whats the scoop?

[kebby28]

Your video doesn't work on my phone
Whats the scoop?
Oh no! I exported it as a mp4 for mobile so everyone could watch it. Its also right next to yours on you tube when you search ski wheeler

[redsox]

started my build today. more to come.

[Scootertrash]

redsox - did. You get my last pm?
our Internet is supposed to be back up today then I'll be back online. surfing and typing suck on the phone

[kebby28]

The tracks are great because they sit on top of the snow. I can go on snowmobile trails without leaving a mark. But. They are coming off untill I really need them. They build up snow on the hinge and then its horible. I also think they are destroying my hubs. I have allot of play in them now... They do go good in the snow but I think my wheeler would have been happier to sit all winter...

[kebby28]

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Got some snow coming this week. Gunna have to put the track tires back on...

[3-for-Me]

Great post. Here is my 350X ski-version. I mounted a 10" wide ski from an older snow hawk on 84 250R forks. Easy to switch from front wheel to ski. Unhook the front brake master cylinder, unstrap the headlight, loosen up the fork pinch bolts, slide out the forks with the wheel, slide in the forks with the ski mounted on, tighten the pinch bolts, strap on the headlight and ready to ride in the snow. The ski runs on 7 carbide skags. You really know when you ride across a bare spot or a stone. Rode in 8" fresh snow today.

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[waynekreitzmann]

I was thinking of doing the track thing but I thought the track wouldn't lay flat so like every third rib I was gonna put a piece of small angle iron on kinda like the old artic cat cleeted track