History Question - What did they do with all the recalled Three Wheelers

[afdfirefighter]

I am aware of the ban and that it has expired but I am curious to some of the details. It says they were made illegal for new and used sales and they recalled the unsold ones. Where did all of these go? Did the manufactures have to destroy them? I have been searching for some time for some photos of things such as: old Honda warehouse, production line, old Honda showrooms, etc. I love old pictures and like to see how they manufactured and warehoused these back in the day. Has anyone came across that recently that know where I could take a look. Thanks guys, just want to learn a little more about these back when they were new. Was 15-20 years before my time...

[BOB MARLIN]

I don't think it was ever "Illegal" to sell a 3 wheeler. It was more of a volentary thing. I do know someone that claims to have found some of the fender molds, but honda won't release them.

[afdfirefighter]

I don't think it was ever "Illegal" to sell a 3 wheeler. It was more of a volentary thing. I do know someone that claims to have found some of the fender molds, but honda won't release them.

Well you know what I mean. The industry agreed to not produce them. Fender molds as in already made fenders? Where did he come across this? This is the type of stuff that interests me big time.

[kb0nly]

They put a ban on the Manufacturing of them, they didnt put a ban on selling them. A lot of dealers pulled their stock though, i remember the Honda dealer we used to have here pulled the last of them off the showroom floor because they were just bad for business at that time.

I know the dealer here eventually sold them though. I have heard stories and seen ones that were chopped up after the manufacturing ban. Motors and main components removed and shelfed, and the frame junked. One old dealer told me once they would cut off the front downtube with the VIN stamped in it to send to Honda as proof of destruction, they would then get credited for it, etc.

The Honda production lines just regeared to quads and stopped making them.

What Bob is talking about, Molds, is the large metal Molds that were used to produce the plastic parts, fenders, etc. There was big talk about that a while back, evidently Honda shelved the molds because they were a large investment to make in the first place. I suppose they figured they could make replacement parts for a while to recoup costs. After all making the fenders is not manufacturing of a three wheeler so the law wouldnt have stopped that.

[afdfirefighter]

They put a ban on the Manufacturing of them, they didnt put a ban on selling them. A lot of dealers pulled their stock though, i remember the Honda dealer we used to have here pulled the last of them off the showroom floor because they were just bad for business at that time.

I know the dealer here eventually sold them though. I have heard stories and seen ones that were chopped up after the manufacturing ban. Motors and main components removed and shelfed, and the frame junked. One old dealer told me once they would cut off the front downtube with the VIN stamped in it to send to Honda as proof of destruction, they would then get credited for it, etc.

The Honda production lines just regeared to quads and stopped making them.

What Bob is talking about, Molds, is the large metal Molds that were used to produce the plastic parts, fenders, etc. There was big talk about that a while back, evidently Honda shelved the molds because they were a large investment to make in the first place. I suppose they figured they could make replacement parts for a while to recoup costs. After all making the fenders is not manufacturing of a three wheeler so the law wouldnt have stopped that.

I can't believe Honda hasn't pulled those molds out and started reproducing plastics. I would think they would sell plastics like hot cakes and beat all the aftermarket prices.

Has anyone ever seen any old pics from Honda when these were being built on the line or a warehouse of crates of ATCs.

Wish I could have purchased one of these brand new back in the day and put it together from the crate.

[Larry T Moore]

we purchased a 110 new in 1980....it was the gateway drug for my addiction....then we sold it in an estate auction and went straight to the dealer and bought a new 200s in 85.....I still have all the brochures from every dream trip..when they sold the Honda dealership in town to NAPA i was supposed to get all the vcr tapes of the promotion for the trikes...never happened...but I do remember the dealer had pics from the shows of new trikes on the bulletin board and he was as excited to get them in..then all the crap happened and they never came..now..the story of whether there was this last 250r sold in Canada gets a heated discussion like NASCAR or religon...

[El Camexican]

I fall into the “I was there when” category and my recollection is that the agreement to stop offering three wheelers to the public was a long drawn out process, it wasn’t like everyone woke up one morning and couldn’t buy or sell a trike. During that period there was plenty of time to ramp down production and sell what they had on the water.

Case in point, Yamaha and Honda stopped selling their 250 racers in 1986, but other trikes keep selling in 1987. The damming data and legal problems were well publicized long before this report came out in 1987 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1I5DweHlnQ I remember my parents discussing the media reports of the dangers as far back as 1984 while debating if it was safe for me to continue riding ours (I won that argument by the way).

The idea that large cargos of trikes were dumped into the ocean, or sold for scrap is intriguing, but I suspect it is more urban legend that fact. Look at it this way; if Honda was selling Big Reds in 1987 and Kawasaki was still selling Tecates why would Honda have scrapped any leftover 1986 250R trikes? It would make no sense.

There is one thing I would like to know that perhaps someone (Mr. Dunlop?) could tell us and this is; did the AMA ever ban three wheelers from its events and if so what year did they do it? Maybe that is why most of the 250 racers stopped being sold in 86? I think production of the Tigers and Tricky Dick’s trikes were all but done in 85/86, but I don’t know if that was because there was nowhere to race, or if they were looking to steer clear of legal problems.

[fabiodriven]

I do know someone that claims to have found some of the fender molds, but honda won't release them.

This statement makes absolutely no sense.


I can't believe Honda hasn't pulled those molds out and started reproducing plastics. I would think they would sell plastics like hot cakes and beat all the aftermarket prices.

I understand you are young and you have a lot to learn. Just because all of us in here are nuts about trikes, that doesn't mean the rest of the world is. The whole reason they stop producing this stuff is because it gets to the point that profit is questionable, not because they're big doody heads. Watch a group fender buy on here go down. It's hard enough to track down 15 people who will put the money up for a buy.

[HairyJR]

Back in the late 80's the owner of Hy-Tech when it was a motorcycle salvage business in Fontana, CA. had a boat load of 350x suspension parts from the disassembled trikes. I also believe that's when Honda donated all the motors to schools auto shops.

[DohcBikes]

Isn't it possible that Honda Kawi etc. just pulled as much stock as they could, and sold what was left in countries other than the U.S.... I mean, why would they just throw their money away when they could just go ahead and sell them somewhere else?

[fabiodriven]

Because it isn't that much money to them. Add a wheel to the machine and continue selling. It was a speed bump at best.

[atc007]

Your core question will be answered by reading the consent decree. Set aside a LOT of time. 3 wheelers were VOLUNTARILY suspended form being sold. There was also a TON of lawyer talk in there that halted technology from being thrown into Quads. Hence Honda doing nothing race wise for over a decade. It ran out in 1999,and by all laws. I THINK you can legally produce a 3 wheeler now. I don't think there is enough insurance in the world for that to happen though. Honda wants absolutely NOTHING to do with ANY conversation about a ATC. It is stupid. They made them more money collectively than anything else they have ever sold. But the taste in their mouth is THAT bad. When they chopped the bikes. All the Honda dealer had to send back to American Honda was the Frame cut with the VIN # on it. That's it. ALL the other parts were to be donated. What was in crates was parted, wheels and tires at the time were $25 dealer cost for dealers,while they lasted. I and another member on here stumbled into,,,well,,, maybe not the holy grail.But a ass ton of nos stuff piled as high as the eye could see last year. Nope,no pics :) Some of it was dry rotted,some as new. As far as Honda reselling plastics. Never gonna happen. And yes El, 3 wheelers were banned from tracks almost overnight. There wasn't a insurance company on Earth that would write a policy to a race track catering to a 3 wheeler. That is solely what shut down our local track. Even though they ran, 3,4 and 6 wheelers. Buggies,Odysseys,2wd trucks and 4x4 trucks. Our 3 wheel classes were THAT strong :).

[bkm]

Several new parts from chopped up bikes have been born again and now call my bike home. It seems that every year a new stash of take off parts are discovered. I wonder what the real production numbers were for the 85-86 250r including the bikes that were cut up?

[afdfirefighter]

Yes I do have a lot to learn lol. I love the history behind them. I wonder where we would be today with them if the "ban" never happened... :wondering


I fall into the “I was there when” category and my recollection is that the agreement to stop offering three wheelers to the public was a long drawn out process, it wasn’t like everyone woke up one morning and couldn’t buy or sell a trike. During that period there was plenty of time to ramp down production and sell what they had on the water.

Case in point, Yamaha and Honda stopped selling their 250 racers in 1986, but other trikes keep selling in 1987. The damming data and legal problems were well publicized long before this report came out in 1987 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1I5DweHlnQ I remember my parents discussing the media reports of the dangers as far back as 1984 while debating if it was safe for me to continue riding ours (I won that argument by the way).

The idea that large cargos of trikes were dumped into the ocean, or sold for scrap is intriguing, but I suspect it is more urban legend that fact. Look at it this way; if Honda was selling Big Reds in 1987 and Kawasaki was still selling Tecates why would Honda have scrapped any leftover 1986 250R trikes? It would make no sense.

There is one thing I would like to know that perhaps someone (Mr. Dunlop?) could tell us and this is; did the AMA ever ban three wheelers from its events and if so what year did they do it? Maybe that is why most of the 250 racers stopped being sold in 86? I think production of the Tigers and Tricky Dick’s trikes were all but done in 85/86, but I don’t know if that was because there was nowhere to race, or if they were looking to steer clear of legal problems.

So people say some of these were dumped into the ocean? I have never heard that before. That is very interesting.

[wonderboy]

Just like 007 says, back in the day, they were voluntarily pulled from the dealer showrooms. Officially, there was no ban for several years. That was up until the Bush administration (Bush Junior). Remember when there was all the uproar about lead paint in kids toys from China? Well, there was a bill sent through congress enacting tougher laws on things like lead paint and a bunch of other kids toy related issues. But guess what? They snuck the OFFICIAL BAN of sale and manufacture of 3 wheeled ATV's into that same bill. It was right at the tail end of the Bush administration, so not that long ago.

EDIT: in case you are really bored, check out Section 232 at the following link:
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr4040#summary

This is the "Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act of 2008" in which 3 wheelers were finally (officially) restricted.

[Marty]

I really do not think it was a volunteered thing.
My reason for saying that is if it was a volunteer session why was Honda of America threatening dealerships to pull their franchises or dealer licenses if they dealerships did not relinquish ATC 250r's they had in stock or on show floors.
I could be wrong but I heard a story Honda of America was serious about getting those trikes off floor.
I also read a story about guy or dealership owner who originally owned crated ATC 250r did not want to disclose his name or Honda business because of waiver he signed regarding the sale of ATC 250R's.

[atc007]

Just like 007 says, back in the day, they were voluntarily pulled from the dealer showrooms. Officially, there was no ban for several years. That was up until the Bush administration (Bush Junior). Remember when there was all the uproar about lead paint in kids toys from China? Well, there was a bill sent through congress enacting tougher laws on things like lead paint and a bunch of other kids toy related issues. But guess what? They snuck the OFFICIAL BAD of sale and manufacture of 3 wheeled ATV's into that same bill. It was right at the tail end of the Bush administration, so not that long ago.

EDIT: in case you are really bored, check out Section 232 at the following link:
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr4040#summary

This is the "Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act of 2008" in which 3 wheelers were finally (officially) restricted.

Great info. I knew and forgot.. Not that I was gonna try and import new 3 wheelers someday :) ...! ?. As with any words,they can be undone. But for now, sec 232 is IT. The "ban" was mostly voluntary. Yes, they would have much rather turned back the clock to mid 85 and had the good life. But Drunks and Barbara Walters wasn't gonna let that happen. I'll never forget how amped I was to milk early the night that 3 wheelers were gonna be on 20/20 !! Little did I know.......

[wonderboy]

Hey Marty, I think you just need to consider who the players were in the discussion and then it makes sense.

First, the "voluntary" part of the agreement was with with the Honda corporation. They are the ones who manufacture the machines and are the ones with the big pockets. They are the ones with everything to lose if things got out of hand (lawsuits, goverment investigations, etc).

The dealerships are independantly owned businesses who are licensed (whatever the term is you want to use) to sell machines from the various manufacturers. I thought (not 100% sure) that dealerships typically buy the machines from the OEM manufacturer. A machine on the dealership floor is owned by the dealership. Once the "Consent Decree" was put into place (between the Japanese manufacturers and the CPSC) I think Honda wanted to make sure that the dealerships didn't go off on their own and continue to sell the stock on hand.

@ 007:
So much of the official documentation was "weasle worded"... things like "until a mandatory consumer product safety standard ..." which implies if they were to just create a safety standard and comply with it, then they could continue. However, there is also a statement asking the CPSC to issue their final ruling. Maybe that is more precise in their banning of the machines. I need to see if they ever issued this...

[BOB MARLIN]

If I read section 232 right, is TPC trikes breaking the law ?.

[blue27]

Yes ATC007 is right on that any of the old stock was cut up and sold as parts. I worked at Dealer during that time and Honda was selling us tires on rims with the hubs for 25.00 dealer cost, both front and rear ATC tires. I was at Hy-Tech while on a west coat during a sponsor visit trip and when we stopped in there there was stacks of Honda 350x fenders with all the decals and rear mud flaps still on them. Stacks of 350x headlights and shocks also. We all know that Honda does not sell fenders with the decals and 350x rear mud flap was extra also. While we there we bought NOS 350x motors, wish I would of bought more. Honda did donate a lot of motors to tech schools. I did hear there was a time when all dealers had to have new units off the floor and either sold or returned. It was never illegal to sell used units but at the time of the" Ban" value of three wheelers dropped to low no one would take them in trade. Rumors of recalls no one would take the chance. When the AMA finally dropped the sanctioning of three wheeler racing in 88 the value dropped enen more and alot were scavenged for quad parts. We pulled motors from 350x and 250r s for the quads and junked the frames. at that time a running 350x was only bring 400-500 dollars and we just bought them for the motors. And to stir the pot alittle... that is where quad conversion kits such as the 3x4 kit came in to play, a race three wheeler with a lot of money in motor and suspension work, worth nothing and you cant race it anymore... but for less then half of what a new quad cost you could convert to a quad and race it again. Yes it didnt work as well bur some people gambled on it.

[slashfan7964]

If I read section 232 right, is TPC trikes breaking the law ?.

No, because it's a conversion kit for a 4 wheeled ATV, not a factory produced and imported trike. Notice, it says ban on imported. If there was a US factory that built then, they would be legal. What idiots.

Regardless, seeing that pissed me off.


As far as the OP, I've heard all sorts of crap. They were pulled, cut up and parted out, some were converted to quads etc. We will never really know.

[Outlaw #24]

I think at this point in history , should reflect on what had occurred to prompt the consent decree in the first place. I for 1 can tell all of you , it was not the responsible users. Remember the sheer numbers of 3 wheeler that were being or had already been produced by 1985 , when it all started to go down! :wondering

[tri again]

I'm just fascinated by the history of stuff in general.
I met 2 ladies from Canada that went to souther Calif to start a dress shop, and wound up with the first Honda motorcycle dealership in So Cal.
Sold TONS of trike to farmers south of the border.
Naturally, people started racing each other 'cause it was fun.

[El Camexican]

Naturally, people started racing each other 'cause it was fun.

It's in our genes
183477

[jeswinehart]

Many 86 + 87 Kawasaki Tecates went to the Mediterranean states (Greece + Spain being the largest lions share of that market).
Honda's ATC 250ES (Bigred) 86 + 87 went to Canada and Australia
Europe it seems got their fair share of a mixture of Honda trikes.

At least that is the way I see it,,, john

[Dirtcrasher]

So people say some of these were dumped into the ocean? I have never heard that before. That is very interesting.

Yes, right next to the Titanic :D

[barnett468]

I am aware of the ban and that it has expired but I am curious to some of the details. I love this topic.

I worked at Kawi at the time. The government was on a witch hunt and made an appointment to come in and interview whoever was in charge of the ATV dept. Well, Kawi told me to go on vacation that day and they took the watercraft supervisor [Gary B.] who was actually an electrical engineer that originally worked in the snow mobile dept in Kawi’s Nebraska plant before it closed down, and who knew nothing about watercraft, much less ATV’s, and threw him under the bus. Our legal dept prepped him for several days on what, and what not to say, and to never mention my name and just play stupid.


The grossly misleading, one sided, TV program in the link below that was on worldwide TV, was the first time any of us at Kawi had heard publicly about any sort of big brew ha ha over injuries incurred while riding 3 wheelers, and the show was that beginning of the end for 3 wheelers. If my old brain remembers correctly, there was no interest by the gov to do anything about 3 wheelers prior to the show but the show brought the issue to their attention and they pursued it only after the show was aired.

60 MINUTES, part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1I5DweHlnQ


60 MINUTES part 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbptQDcLo-E


Enjoy hearing comments on the show from people that want to blame everyone and everything other then themselves, for injuries they or others might have incurred while riding a 3 wheeler.


Hear grown people [adults if you want to call them that] NOT assume responsibility for their own actions and imply things like, “Hey, even though I was required to be at least 16 years old [18 in some places now], and take 6 months of driving lessons in High School, then a written and driving test at DMV before they felt I was competent enough to drive a car on a SMOOTH flat road that is extremely UNLIKELY to tip over in a turn at ANY speed, and where I can see for MILES around AND which I "shouldn't" be suckin back a pint of Jack Daniels blue label or E85 corn gas while I drive it, I still don’t think I, or even my kids, need any training to ride an ATV simply because I and they can ride a bicycle, and an ATV has 3 wheels which is one more than a bicycle...I think, and I used to have a tricycle when I was 12…uh…I mean 5, that I rode with no problem, and even though this new ATC250R model tricycle has a 40 hp engine attached to it, it still couldn’t be that hard to run it wide open in a turn or blindly over a dune not knowing what is on the other side like maybe a cliff or another happy rider heading right at me at full throttle or maybe a truck or an ambulance that is picking up a rider that that used to think the same way I do before he went into a coma after smashing his head on his handlebars landing off a 30 foot jump while not wearing a helmet, and, because it is an off highway vehicle with no drivers license required to operate it I can pound back all the Jack I want before and during my ride.".


My favorite part of the program is where dad [who looks a bit unstable on his feet imo], while holding a beverage of some kind [must be a soda because goodness knows he is WAY to responsible to be getting H A M M A R E D in front of his kids [ESPECIALLY when he has to drive back home with them in the car in a few hours], sends his tiny kid out for what I think was their FIRST ride, UNSUPERVISED, with no USEFUL instructions whatsoever, BLINDLY, from the side of his van into oncoming traffic WITHOUT A HELMET, where the kid INSTANTLY gets mowed down by another rider. Then you hear the announcer say how dangerous 3 wheelers are and NOT that dad is a blithering idiot. It’s absolutely hilarious…I think. I must have replayed that part a dozen times in total disbelief.


Most of you here have probably gotten your foot off the peg at one time or another for some reason or another and ran your foot over and possibly got sucked off the bike in the process. Well the same thing happens with a quad also, and imo, this is one of the most common occurrences and causes of injuries on either of these bikes, at least for beginner riders, yet they still make quads. Last time I looked there seemed to be plenty of injuries from motorcycles too but they still make those too, hmmm.


I’m sure no one has EVER seen a quad or any kind of motorcycle on it’s side or upside down or has crashed on one themselves, yet I don’t remember if there is even any mention or footage of a quad or a motorcycle in the program.


Obviously riding a 3 wheeler is not as safe as sitting on ones couch, but at some point, imo, at least SOME of the responsibility for ANYTHING that happens to someone while riding, driving, flying, fishing, walking, drinking and so on, should be assumed by the person performing that particular activity.

[DohcBikes]

Many 86 + 87 Kawasaki Tecates went to the Mediterranean states (Greece + Spain being the largest lions share of that market).
Honda's ATC 250ES (Bigred) 86 + 87 went to Canada and Australia
Europe it seems got their fair share of a mixture of Honda trikes.

At least that is the way I see it,,, john
Could some have also gone to Mexico?
Makes a lot more sense than wasting them.

[afdfirefighter]

I love this topic.

I worked at Kawi at the time. The government was on a witch hunt and made an appointment to come in and interview whoever was in charge of the ATV dept. Well, Kawi told me to go on vacation that day and they took the watercraft supervisor [Gary B.] who was actually an electrical engineer that originally worked in the snow mobile dept in Kawi’s Nebraska plant before it closed down, and who knew nothing about watercraft, much less ATV’s, and threw him under the bus. Our legal dept prepped him for several days on what, and what not to say, and to never mention my name and just play stupid.


The grossly misleading, one sided, TV program in the link below that was on worldwide TV, was the first time any of us at Kawi had heard publicly about any sort of big brew ha ha over injuries incurred while riding 3 wheelers, and the show was that beginning of the end for 3 wheelers. If my old brain remembers correctly, there was no interest by the gov to do anything about 3 wheelers prior to the show but the show brought the issue to their attention and they pursued it only after the show was aired.

60 MINUTES, part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1I5DweHlnQ


60 MINUTES part 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbptQDcLo-E


Enjoy hearing comments on the show from people that want to blame everyone and everything other then themselves, for injuries they or others might have incurred while riding a 3 wheeler.


Hear grown people [adults if you want to call them that] NOT assume responsibility for their own actions and imply things like, “Hey, even though I was required to be at least 16 years old [18 in some places now], and take 6 months of driving lessons in High School, then a written and driving test at DMV before they felt I was competent enough to drive a car on a SMOOTH flat road that is extremely UNLIKELY to tip over in a turn at ANY speed, and where I can see for MILES around AND which I "shouldn't" be suckin back a pint of Jack Daniels blue label or E85 corn gas while I drive it, I still don’t think I, or even my kids, need any training to ride an ATV simply because I and they can ride a bicycle, and an ATV has 3 wheels which is one more than a bicycle...I think, and I used to have a tricycle when I was 12…uh…I mean 5, that I rode with no problem, and even though this new ATC250R model tricycle has a 40 hp engine attached to it, it still couldn’t be that hard to run it wide open in a turn or blindly over a dune not knowing what is on the other side like maybe a cliff or another happy rider heading right at me at full throttle or maybe a truck or an ambulance that is picking up a rider that that used to think the same way I do before he went into a coma after smashing his head on his handlebars landing off a 30 foot jump while not wearing a helmet, and, because it is an off highway vehicle with no drivers license required to operate it I can pound back all the Jack I want before and during my ride.".


My favorite part of the program is where dad [who looks a bit unstable on his feet imo], while holding a beverage of some kind [must be a soda because goodness knows he is WAY to responsible to be getting H A M M A R E D in front of his kids [ESPECIALLY when he has to drive back home with them in the car in a few hours], sends his tiny kid out for what I think was their FIRST ride, UNSUPERVISED, with no USEFUL instructions whatsoever, BLINDLY, from the side of his van into oncoming traffic WITHOUT A HELMET, where the kid INSTANTLY gets mowed down by another rider. Then you hear the announcer say how dangerous 3 wheelers are and NOT that dad is a blithering idiot. It’s absolutely hilarious…I think. I must have replayed that part a dozen times in total disbelief.


Most of you here have probably gotten your foot off the peg at one time or another for some reason or another and ran your foot over and possibly got sucked off the bike in the process. Well the same thing happens with a quad also, and imo, this is one of the most common occurrences and causes of injuries on either of these bikes, at least for beginner riders, yet they still make quads. Last time I looked there seemed to be plenty of injuries from motorcycles too but they still make those too, hmmm.


I’m sure no one has EVER seen a quad or any kind of motorcycle on it’s side or upside down or has crashed on one themselves, yet I don’t remember if there is even any mention or footage of a quad or a motorcycle in the program.


Obviously riding a 3 wheeler is not as safe as sitting on ones couch, but at some point, imo, at least SOME of the responsibility for ANYTHING that happens to someone while riding, driving, flying, fishing, walking, drinking and so on, should be assumed by the person performing that particular activity.

I think we should ban all coffee sales because some smart person burnt themselves at mcdonalds lol. But seriously if you respect the machine, know its capabilities and non capabilities (taking a corner in 5th gear through a woods like an idiot) then you anyone with common sense should be able to ride one. But like anything safe, accidents do happen. I see them every day.

Thank you everyone for your input and responses. I hope this thread keeps going for a while. I enjoy hearing everyones stories and information!!!! Interesting stuff!!!

[barnett468]

I think we should ban all coffee sales because some smart person burnt themselves at mcdonaldsYeah, not to mention the accident one might get into when they spill a steaming hot, flesh removing cup of that stuff on their lap.

Oh what about banning lipstick so people can't put it on in the car while they are driving.

Don't forget, they banned the sale of, or upsizing to, Supersize drinks in New York temporarily because kids were turning into obese, diabetic, sugar addicts.

The the gov also banned the use of trans fats by all big name fast food stores because junior turned into a blimp and had 50% blocked arteries and high cholesterol by the age of 12 because it ate cheese burgers and fries every day and never got up of its fat lard backside to do anything but turn on Nntendo or X Box etc.

Now thanks to PIGGY, all the french fries we buy from places like that taste like tofu or a wet sponge. I can't even put real salt on them because the gov makes them give away salt substitute along with sugar substitute instead of the real stuff because the gov does not want me to have a stroke or die because they would loose income from another tax payer if I did.

Did someone mention Honey Boo Boo and its Mom?





Thank you everyone for your input and responses. I hope this thread keeps going for a while. I enjoy hearing everyones stories and information!!!! Interesting stuff!!!Did you look at the videos yet? You won't believe what you see and hear.

Let us know what you think of the show.

I'll post a couple more things not already mentioned by others that you might find interesting when I get some time.

[afdfirefighter]

Yeah, not to mention the accident one might get into when they spill a steaming hot, flesh removing cup of that stuff on their lap.

Oh what about banning lipstick so people can't put it on in the car while they are driving.

Don't forget, they banned the sale of, or upsizing to, Supersize drinks in New York temporarily because kids were turning into obese, diabetic, sugar addicts.

The the gov also banned the use of trans fats by all big name fast food stores because junior turned into a blimp and had 50% blocked arteries and high cholesterol by the age of 12 because it ate cheese burgers and fries every day and never got up of its fat lard backside to do anything but turn on Nntendo or X Box etc.

Now thanks to PIGGY, all the french fries we buy from places like that taste like tofu or a wet sponge. I can't even put real salt on them because the gov makes them give away salt substitute along with sugar substitute instead of the real stuff because the gov does not want me to have a stroke or die because they would loose income from another tax payer if I did.

Did someone mention Honey Boo Boo and its Mom?




Did you look at the videos yet? You won't believe what you see and hear.

Let us know what you think of the show.

I'll post a couple more things not already mentioned by others that you might find interesting when I get some time.

Yes I did watch the videos. It blows my mind. Not to get too graphic, but if every family made a video of victims I pull out of cars and houses that die due to those thats all that would play on every channel. At some point people need to realize that some things just aren't for them. I'm not a motorcycle guy. Would it be easier than a trike over time? Probably, but they are just not for me and I realize it.

I just wonder where we would be today if this "ban" never happened. Would we be so addicted to them? Would they be 1/3 of the cost of what we are paying now? Or would they be something no one cares about anymore?

[El Camexican]

Our legal dept prepped him for several days on what, and what not to say, and to never mention my name and just play stupid.

Did he even know your name?

[barnett468]

Thank you everyone for your input and responses. I hope this thread keeps going for a while. I enjoy hearing everyones stories and information!!!! Interesting stuff!!!

I love old pictures and like to see how they manufactured and warehoused these back in the day.

...just want to learn a little more about these back when they were new. Was 15-20 years before my time...Honda had a big fancy facility in L A Calif. [where they still are] long before Kawi did. I went by there on several occasions when I worked at Norm Reeves Honda, Kawasaki, Bultaco and BSA in Anaheim back in 1975. Norm Reeves had, and still have, another store in Lakewood.

When I started at Kawi around 82 or 83, they had the R and D, US engineering, fabricating and racing dept. in Santa Ana near Costa Mesa and the warehouse and office facilities in a small single story warehouse around 10 miles away.

We did all the testing and development of the off road bikes, Police bikes, Watercraft and new projects like the Mule at the Rand D facility.

When racing dept. was done with some of the bikes, they would take them out back, tape the throttle wide open, take bets from everyone on how long it would run until it hurled, then start it up and lean it against the fence until it expired.

Japan sent over a pro road racer to R and D for a week to do some testing. He got stopped in Costa Mesa for speeding…duhhh, on some sort of street bike Kawi loaned him. He didn’t speak a word of English but could say Kawasaki. Well the Costa police were very familiar with us and our occasional antics and fortunately were extremely tolerant of us. I guess one of the reasons is because they knew we did Police bike development there. Anyway, they figured out right away where he came from and made him park the bike and gave him a ride to the building just to be sure. We laughed our backsides off when we say him with the cops. Well, we gave the cops a tour to insure their continued good will and get out of jail free card etc. and all was well.

I walked by a brand new, in the crate, 1974 H1 500 in that building every day. They had to keep it for law suit purposes because so many morons got hurt on it. I wanted it bad, they still have it. It’s worth a ton now.

Kawi built us a shiny new facility out in the middle of nowhere in Lake Forest Calif. [which is a huge city now] that we moved into around 1985. It housed both Calif. Facilities.

The warehouse was increased in size and was maybe 200 feet long, 150 feet wide and 25 feet high. From what I remember there were 15 foot high racks that stored the bikes and parts. All the parts were picked by hand. We did not have a robot get them like Kia does etc.

The only US mfg. facility we had was in Nebraska, They only made chassis stuff like frames tanks wheels and wiring etc. They made no engine parts for bikes, those were all shipped assembled to them from Japan. They only made the items for some of the models. Most of the regular motorcycles came complete from Japan.

The bikes/ATV's that were partially made in Nebraska and fully assembled there were exempt from the recently imposed 40% import duty imposed on all imported motorcycles. This duty/tax was created by the US gov for the sole purpose of keeping Harley Davidson from filing bankruptcy. Kawi told us that because the off road division didn’t make any money anyway that they might close it down altogether because they would lose too much money if they had to pay the tax.

I walked into a room in the Nebraska plant and saw front bucket seat frames for a Dodge car there. They told me they make many seat frames for Dodge.

All the bikes and watercraft we received at the warehouse were shipped to us on a truck.

The bikes all came strapped to a wooden crate with a box covering all but the bottom and were mostly assembled except for the wheels.

The ones that were “made” at the Nebraska plant said Made in the USA on the box. The ones that came direct from said Made in Japan.

The bikes and other heavy items that had to be removed from or placed on the upper shelves were moved with a small fork lift.

Kawi gave employees a discount on bikes that was around 25% less than the dealers paid. I think we could buy 2 a year. Employees were buying them and reselling them for much less than the dealers could. Somehow the dealers found out and complained and the employee price went up to maybe dealer cost plus 5% and only 1 a year. I never bought one.

[JustEnough]

Checked this link from a previous post:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr4040#summary

and found this in Section 232...

Prohibits the importation of new three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles until a mandatory consumer product safety standard applicable to three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles is in effect.
Requires the CPSC to issue a final rule in its proceeding entitled "Standards for All Terrain Vehicles and Ban of Three-wheeled All Terrain Vehicles."

So went to the CPSC site and found this from 2006:

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Newsroom/News-Releases/2006/CPSC-Launches-Major-Campaign-To-Drive-Down-Deaths-and-Serious-Injuries-Associated-With-All-Terrain-Vehicles/

While CPSC believes that there would be a decline in deaths and injuries if riders followed these safe riding practices, the agency has also proposed new rules to make riding safer. These include:

- Banning 3-wheeled ATVs, which present three times the risk of injury compared to 4-wheel ATVs and have re-emerged through the import market, Internet and secondhand dealers

[oscarmayer]

this says it all.


Prohibits the importation of new three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles until a mandatory consumer product safety standard applicable to three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles is in effect.
Requires the CPSC to issue a final rule in its proceeding entitled "Standards for All Terrain Vehicles and Ban of Three-wheeled All Terrain Vehicles."
Requires the Comptroller General to study the utility, recreational, and other benefits of certain all-terrain vehicles and the costs associated with accidents and injuries involving all-terrain vehicles.

the gov has not done it's job and refused to do it even up to today. how is it we pay a government to do a job and they refuse to do so? if i had a million bucks, i'd sue the gov over this issue.

[atc007]

Anyone know what a COMPTROLLER general is?? Nonetheless,that is a HUGE hole waiting to be filled. It never will. But could be done easily. Again,it only stresses about IMPORTS.

[El Camexican]

this says it all.



the gov has not done it's job and refused to do it even up to today. how is it we pay a government to do a job and they refuse to do so? if i had a million bucks, i'd sue the gov over this issue.

A million dollars wouldn't be enough to get you to a discovery hearing my friend. Trust me, if the big 4 could have "fixed" this for under one hundred million they would have. Mass produced trikes are done, period just like the Pinto and leaded toys.

[fcf35]

I can say without a doubt that there's new motors popping up everyday.I haven't found anything besides motors though.a lot of the donated motors are in varying condition.some never opened and some have been used for teaching purposes.nevertheless" still a new motor."problem is you don't know if its been opened or not for sure and it may just be me but even if I buy a new motor but its been sitting for 25 years then I'm probably gonna at least pull the top end and make sure everything is right before I take the time to put it in a bike or sell it.people just need to ask about them.there are still schools that have the motors and all it takes is asking.more than likely you'll get them really cheap or even free.I exhausted every resource I have around me but if I'm still finding them in 2013 then there's got to be more.

[barnett468]

Thank you everyone for your input and responses. I hope this thread keeps going for a while. I enjoy hearing everyones stories and information!!!! Interesting stuff!!!



In a statement/report to the CPSC and others, the American Association of Pediatricians [AAP] says/implies that 3 wheelers should be banned due to the total amount of deaths and injuries incurred while riding, NOT because of the percentage of 3 wheel riders killed or injured while riding the vehicles.

The government [CPSC] needed support to get their plan pushed through. They received it from the medical community via the AAP and AAOS.

The AAP says the average number of deaths from all ATV’s is around 280 a year or 2,800 over a ten year period.

The amount of injuries incurred from them is around 108,000 in 1986 down to 54,000 in 1998.



Ok, the number of recorded deaths from drivers and passengers of ON highway vehicles in 1998 alone is a whopping 53,020. That's an average of 530,200 in 10 years.

.. 530,200
... - 2,800

= 527,400 more deaths fron cars and motorcycles in 10 years than from ALL ATV's, hmmm.


The number of recorded injuries from drivers and passengers of cars and motorcycles in 1998 alone is ONLY, 3 million sixty one thousand.

Based on the statistics I don’t know why they didn’t ban cars and motorcycles instead and just let everyone tide 3 wheelers on the highway.


Excerpt from AAP’s letter/report to the CPSC.

“Almost 2800 deaths have been attributed to ATVs (about 200 to 300 annually) since 1985.14 The risk of death, approximately .8 to 1.0 per 10 000 ATVs, has remained fairly steady since 1987. Annual emergency department visits for treatment of ATV-related injuries reached a peak of 108 000 in 1986 and declined after that to the present level of about 54 500.”

Full article below.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/105/6/1352.full


1998 NHTSA statistics for highway deaths and injuries.

33,028 passengers killed in cars, trucks, busses.

2,294 riders killed on motorcycles

5,228 pedestrians killed by on highway vehicles of all types.

760 bicycle riders killed by in highway vehicles.

3million, twelve thousand passengers injured in cars, trucks and busses.

49,000 injured riding motorcycles.

Full statistics below.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811162.PDF

[El Camexican]

Unfortunatly history (and statistics) are written by the victors, not us. Ever see a statistic about people who survived a crash because they weren't wearing a seatbelt? They exist, I know two of them, but you'll never see a goverment funded study mention such nonsense. Need more proof? Look at the rosy unemployment stats the goverment publishes each month.

[barnett468]

Thank you everyone for your input and responses. I hope this thread keeps going for a while. I enjoy hearing everyones stories and information!!!! Interesting stuff!!!

Hello afdfighter;


The following are some of the recommendations made by the AAP in 2000. As one can see they are still trying to kill them off 12 years after they are no longer mfg’d. I thought you might enjoy reading them. I added a little commentary.



“The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) now updates its earlier recommendations to decrease death and injury related to the use of all 2-, 3-, and 4-wheeled ATVs:

Pediatricians should advocate for the passage of the AAP's model bill19.”



“The AAP recommends a ban on the sale of all 3-wheeled ATVs, new and used, and a recall with a refund for present owners of the 3-wheeled models.”

Well, why does the AAP make all the recommendations listed below if they want them banned anyway? If they ban them there won’t be any ATV’s to improve the safety of or educate people about…duhhh.



“Education, public and individual patient and parent, about the hazards of all ATVs should continue.”

Unfortunately as one can see in the 60 minute videos some parents are morons and need training themselves.

Hey AAP, this info is thoroughly detailed in the SAFETY PRECAUTIONS section of the 1973 ATC 90 OWNERS MANUAL! Yes, that’s right, 1 9 7 3. Perhaps you might like to read it. See page 44 – 53 in the link at the bottom of page.


“During anticipatory guidance, families should be asked, either by direct questioning or intake survey, about the kinds of recreational activities in which they engage. Just as those who have a swimming pool merit special counseling, so do families who engage in off-road vehicle use. The following points should be emphasized:”

Who is going to do this for someone that buys an ATV from a private party, besides riding and safety instructions are in the manual?

RECREATION - Well, I like to drink beer, and shoot at street signs with my assault rifle as I drive by. How does this question help?

POOL EDUCATION - Johnny, don't hold your sisters head under water for more than 5 minutes.



“Laws should prohibit the use of ATVs, on- or off-road, by children and adolescents younger than 16 years. Children who are not licensed to drive a car should not be allowed to operate off-road vehicles.”An automobile driver's license, and preferably some additional certification in ATV use, should be required to operate an ATV. The safe use of ATVs requires the same or greater skill, judgment, and experience as needed to operate an automobile. Off-road vehicles are particularly dangerous for children younger than 16 years who may have immature judgment and motor skills.

Well, not only would we not have virtually every single past National and World Champion in most Motorsports if this had always been a law and if they had passed it, it would end the off road motorcycle production completely because not only are there not enough purchases of these vehicles from people over 16, there would be no ability for parents to take it up as a family sport because John and Jane have either moved out or been kicked out of the house by the time their 16.



“Injuries frequently occur to passengers, therefore riding double should not be permitted.”

Gee, it says that in the 1973 manual below and used to say just that on the top of the tanks or plastic ANYWAY.



“All riders should wear helmets, eye protection, and protective reflective clothing. Appropriate helmets are those designed for motorcycle (not bicycle) use, and should include safety visors/face shields for eye protection.”

Uh, I think this was first recommended around 1908 and it’s mentioned on the FIRST page of the S A F E T Y section in the 1 9 7 3 manual below.



“Drivers of recreational vehicles should not drive after drinking alcohol. Parents should set an example for their children in this regard.”

It’s in the MANUAL!

Hey Johnny, hand me that 5th of Jack over yonder so I can show ya what NOT to do.

WARNING LABEL - Don’t drink alcohol while operating your ATV, save it for the drive home.



“Install seat belts on 4-wheeled ATVs and require that the vehicles also have a roll bar to prevent the driver from being crushed by the weight of the vehicle in the event of a rollover.”

I can just picture Jimmy White and Marty Hart now, strapped safely down to the seat on their quads with a roll cage battling it out at Carlsbad Raceway.



“Efforts should be made to design ATVs so that they cannot carry passengers.”

Sure, just place punji sticks everywhere except where the operator sits.



“Many injuries are caused by various disruptions in the driving surface such as, bumps and holes. Developing and maintaining trails for the use of off-road vehicles may help reduce injury rates.”

Highly detailed instructions along with detailed photos on how to ride ALL types of terrain are IN…THE…MANUAL!

Well that highway were parked next to looks plenty smooth enough for a safe ride to me kids so go have at it.

Watch out for those little reflective lane dividers, you might get thrown over the bars when your 8” of suspension bottoms out over one at speed.

I can picture Jeff Ward, Ricky Carmichael and others at the Supercross complaining to the AMA rep saying, “Uh, gee, the track seems to have “disruptions” in the surface and we feel that it is too dangerous to ride on, could you please take those out for us? Oh, and don’t forget to smooth out those undulating surfaces too.

I'd love to see them try and grade 50 square miles of the Mojave desert or all of the sand dunes in Glamis. Oh, and don't forget to remove the bushes too



“Prehospital care networks and emergency services should be improved in rural areas, which may minimize the effects of injuries and reduce deaths.”

Oh sure, make the motorcycle companies put up a fully staffed 3 million dollar Urgent Care facility near every track and OHV area. I got a bottle full of Urgent Care right here in my fanny pak.



1973 ATC 90 OWNERS MANUAL

http://www.atcmanuals.info/


See full article below.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/105/6/1352.full

[afdfirefighter]

Hello afdfighter;


The following are some of the recommendations made by the AAP in 2000. As one can see they are still trying to kill them off 12 years after they are no longer mfg’d. I thought you might enjoy reading them. I added a little commentary.



“The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) now updates its earlier recommendations to decrease death and injury related to the use of all 2-, 3-, and 4-wheeled ATVs:

Pediatricians should advocate for the passage of the AAP's model bill19.”



“The AAP recommends a ban on the sale of all 3-wheeled ATVs, new and used, and a recall with a refund for present owners of the 3-wheeled models.”

Well, why does the AAP make all the recommendations listed below if they want them banned anyway? If they ban them there won’t be any ATV’s to improve the safety of or educate people about…duhhh.



“Education, public and individual patient and parent, about the hazards of all ATVs should continue.”

Unfortunately as one can see in the 60 minute videos some parents are morons and need training themselves.

Hey AAP, this info is thoroughly detailed in the SAFETY PRECAUTIONS section of the 1973 ATC 90 OWNERS MANUAL! Yes, that’s right, 1 9 7 3. Perhaps you might like to read it. See page 44 – 53 in the link at the bottom of page.


“During anticipatory guidance, families should be asked, either by direct questioning or intake survey, about the kinds of recreational activities in which they engage. Just as those who have a swimming pool merit special counseling, so do families who engage in off-road vehicle use. The following points should be emphasized:”

Who is going to do this for someone that buys an ATV from a private party, besides riding and safety instructions are in the manual?

RECREATION - Well, I like to drink beer, and shoot at street signs with my assault rifle as I drive by. How does this question help?

POOL EDUCATION - Johnny, don't hold your sisters head under water for more than 5 minutes.



“Laws should prohibit the use of ATVs, on- or off-road, by children and adolescents younger than 16 years. Children who are not licensed to drive a car should not be allowed to operate off-road vehicles.”An automobile driver's license, and preferably some additional certification in ATV use, should be required to operate an ATV. The safe use of ATVs requires the same or greater skill, judgment, and experience as needed to operate an automobile. Off-road vehicles are particularly dangerous for children younger than 16 years who may have immature judgment and motor skills.

Well, not only would we not have virtually every single past National and World Champion in most Motorsports if this had always been a law and if they had passed it, it would end the off road motorcycle production completely because not only are there not enough purchases of these vehicles from people over 16, there would be no ability for parents to take it up as a family sport because John and Jane have either moved out or been kicked out of the house by the time their 16.



“Injuries frequently occur to passengers, therefore riding double should not be permitted.”

Gee, it says that in the 1973 manual below and used to say just that on the top of the tanks or plastic ANYWAY.



“All riders should wear helmets, eye protection, and protective reflective clothing. Appropriate helmets are those designed for motorcycle (not bicycle) use, and should include safety visors/face shields for eye protection.”

Uh, I think this was first recommended around 1908 and it’s mentioned on the FIRST page of the S A F E T Y section in the 1 9 7 3 manual below.



“Drivers of recreational vehicles should not drive after drinking alcohol. Parents should set an example for their children in this regard.”

It’s in the MANUAL!

Hey Johnny, hand me that 5th of Jack over yonder so I can show ya what NOT to do.

WARNING LABEL - Don’t drink alcohol while operating your ATV, save it for the drive home.



“Install seat belts on 4-wheeled ATVs and require that the vehicles also have a roll bar to prevent the driver from being crushed by the weight of the vehicle in the event of a rollover.”

I can just picture Jimmy White and Marty Hart now, strapped safely down to the seat on their quads with a roll cage battling it out at Carlsbad Raceway.



“Efforts should be made to design ATVs so that they cannot carry passengers.”

Sure, just place punji sticks everywhere except where the operator sits.



“Many injuries are caused by various disruptions in the driving surface such as, bumps and holes. Developing and maintaining trails for the use of off-road vehicles may help reduce injury rates.”

Highly detailed instructions along with detailed photos on how to ride ALL types of terrain are IN…THE…MANUAL!

Well that highway were parked next to looks plenty smooth enough for a safe ride to me kids so go have at it.

Watch out for those little reflective lane dividers, you might get thrown over the bars when your 8” of suspension bottoms out over one at speed.

I can picture Jeff Ward, Ricky Carmichael and others at the Supercross complaining to the AMA rep saying, “Uh, gee, the track seems to have “disruptions” in the surface and we feel that it is too dangerous to ride on, could you please take those out for us? Oh, and don’t forget to smooth out those undulating surfaces too.

I'd love to see them try and grade 50 square miles of the Mojave desert or all of the sand dunes in Glamis. Oh, and don't forget to remove the bushes too



“Prehospital care networks and emergency services should be improved in rural areas, which may minimize the effects of injuries and reduce deaths.”

Oh sure, make the motorcycle companies put up a fully staffed 3 million dollar Urgent Care facility near every track and OHV area. I got a bottle full of Urgent Care right here in my fanny pak.



1973 ATC 90 OWNERS MANUAL

http://www.atcmanuals.info/


See full article below.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/105/6/1352.full

This is so e good stuff! Did anyone ever defend the manuals at all during this time when they were trying to ban them? Sounds like every guideline they wanted to set fourth had been established in the manual itself!

[barnett468]

This is so e good stuff! Did anyone ever defend the manuals at all during this time when they were trying to ban them? Sounds like every guideline they wanted to set fourth had been established in the manual itself!Hello again afdfirefighter;


I don't know about the mfg's defending the manuals and proving they had already been doing a lot of what was being asked of them but I';m sure they did obviously to no avail.

Once it became a "Save the poor helpless children." issue/campaign it was all over.

Yeah, they certainly met a lot of the guidelines and that was back in 1973 long before anyone asked them to. Check out the owner’s manual on riding instructions, it’s incredibly detailed. It basically teaches you the basics on how to ride like Dean Sundahl.

The mfg’s really didn’t want to kill off their customers so they made a very diligent effort to inform them the best they could.

I worked at a motorcycle shop and I was actually in charge of training people on how to ride street bikes. This was a courtesy service the shop provided. Now imagine if someone got seriously hurt while I was training them. The shop had no insurance for this. They would have been sued and had to close their doors and then there never would have been any Norm Reeves Honda Car dealerships, lol.

The AAP said they want public education and training provided by the mfg's. Ok, are they going to make it a law that all the dealers have to physically train people how to ride? If so, since the gov is forcing the shops to do this, are they going to pay the lawsuit if someone the shop was training gets hurt during training? I think not.

Now, imagine that the rider survives training but gets hurt a month or year later and sues the shop claiming their accident was the shops fault because they did not train them sufficiently.

As far as having the trainee sign a waiver holding the shop and trainer harmless etc., it is not a legal document. All these waivers people sign at all these events are worthless. One of the reasons Saddleback Park closed down is because they lost a lawsuit when they got sued by a couple riders that signed waivers and crashed into each other there.

The water truck rolling over with the driver in it and killing him in front of a huge crowd while he was watering the track before a race didn’t help much either I guess.

This particular request seems a bit unreasonable to me to say the very least.

[atc300r]

Here in NY the state parks got utility trikes donated for park patrols.I remember seeing big reds and sx trikes in the late 80s early 90s.Patroling at the beach.

[tri again]

It's all about labeling.
The reason the number ONE cause of liver failure in the usa is still legal?
Because tylenol states very clearly in invisible print, to follow directions exACTly.

[Super350]

I love how the anchorman is trying to compare trained commercial pilots that are responsible for passengers to an average ohrv rider....what a fool. Talk about an overall biased report...wow

[Marty]

I do remember going to hy tech atv and they had stacks of gold wheels and tires on pallets! And I do know some of the left over motors from atc Wayne from Custom cycle in Mesa Az was selling brand new 250r motors from his shop so i was told Don't ask me how Wayne got them but I have a friend/hoarder that has one never run at his house that we admire on a weekend basis.

[whipit]

Here in NY the state parks got utility trikes donated for park patrols.I remember seeing big reds and sx trikes in the late 80s early 90s.Patroling at the beach.

I used to live in upstate NY. I remember seeing Big Reds at numerous fire departments, and was told they were donated (along with 250sx's) by Honda. I think there are some big reds still rotting in municipal buildings around the upstate NY area. I managed to buy a big red from a member of a volunteer fire department in about 2000-2001. He was selling it on behalf of the department and it was barely used. I also bought (in 2003) another 250 big red at a surplus equipment auction that was held by the school district in the small town where I used to live. This town had received two big reds in 1988 and had put police logos on them. PD rarely ever used them and they were eventually given to the water department. I remember seeing a water department guy riding one of them down the side of the street once in the mid 1990's. apparently the water department people no longer wanted them and they ended up at the school district. One was sold (to me) and the other was apparently used occasionally to groom the baseball fields. This was ten yrs ago, I bet it has also been sold by now

[afdfirefighter]

I used to live in upstate NY. I remember seeing Big Reds at numerous fire departments, and was told they were donated (along with 250sx's) by Honda. I think there are some big reds still rotting in municipal buildings around the upstate NY area. I managed to buy a big red from a member of a volunteer fire department in about 2000-2001. He was selling it on behalf of the department and it was barely used. I also bought (in 2003) another 250 big red at a surplus equipment auction that was held by the school district in the small town where I used to live. This town had received two big reds in 1988 and had put police logos on them. PD rarely ever used them and they were eventually given to the water department. I remember seeing a water department guy riding one of them down the side of the street once in the mid 1990's. apparently the water department people no longer wanted them and they ended up at the school district. One was sold (to me) and the other was apparently used occasionally to groom the baseball fields. This was ten yrs ago, I bet it has also been sold by now

The money I'd give for one out of a fire department. That is awesome. I need to start searching government auctions it sounds lol.

[b22]

If I read section 232 right, is TPC trikes breaking the law ?.

loving this thread.getin all the info and history.being from the uk i was google banning 3 wheelers and stumbled upon this quote.



Hello, I'm Bill from TPC trikes.

first off getting the major manufactures to produce three wheelers again is not gonna happen. Why? very simple, they were the ones to initiate the first 10 year ban. they did this in order to save quads. when that ban expired all but Honda entered into the ATV action plan voluntarily that effectively banned them indefinitely. in 2008 the Chinese companies started to make a kids sized three wheeler and the manufactures, this time led by Honda initiated the Now PERMANENT BAN OF ALLO PRODUCTION BASED three wheelers that went into effect Aug 09. (until industry standards can be made and met)

WHY? very simple, because of the bogus media reports they were getting sued to the point they lost all there profits. Honda, being the largest of the companies is now run by the same lawyers who fought in these lawsuits. They do not want to return to court over a issue they know has turned public favor against them.

What a lot or people do not realize is until Aug 09 three wheelers were never actually banned. The Consent decree act, and the ATV action plan were both voluntarily agreed upon by the manufactures including Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Polaris, and Arctic Cat. No other manufacture agreed to these or were held to them. At any time any manufacture, such as KTM or Harley, could have made three wheeler.

also why are street trike legal and off road trikes not? simple...LIVE rear axle!!! street trikes have limited slip and or single wheel drive. Off road trikes have a solid axle. It is the solid axle that makes them "difficult" to turn.


So how is it TPC can get around this ban of Aug 09? simple we do not build production Trikes. We convert quads and build them to order OR the customer can buy one of our kits and do it themselves.

While I'm on that let me clarify what we offer.

No fabrication or welding is done by the customer. We Build the frame, triple clamps, and front hub assembly. After that everything else is direct bolt on from either the TRX or CRF 450. We can also build a complete trike for the customer.

[Big G]

...Thanks guys, just want to learn a little more about these back when they were new. Was 15-20 years before my time...

1987 was 20 years before your time?! That makes you born in 2007, which means you're 6 years old! Geez kid, what the heck are you doing on an ATC forum! You should be messaging with other youngsters over in China on how to design the next space shuttle!

[ezmoney1979]

1987 was 20 years before your time?! That makes you born in 2007, which means you're 6 years old! Geez kid, what the heck are you doing on an ATC forum! You should be messaging with other youngsters over in China on how to design the next space shuttle! The first model year was 1970 genius.

[afdfirefighter]

1987 was 20 years before your time?! That makes you born in 2007, which means you're 6 years old! Geez kid, what the heck are you doing on an ATC forum! You should be messaging with other youngsters over in China on how to design the next space shuttle!

I was born in 1986. First model year was 1970. Makes it exactly 16 years before my time.

Born in 2007 would make someone 6 years old, but it would be 37 years AFTER production of ATCs started. I'll message some youngsters over in China and see if we can get you a better calculator maybe (with common sense too maybe lol)

[barnett468]

loving this thread.getin all the info and history.being from the uk i was google banning 3 wheelers and stumbled upon this quote.Hello b22;

Some of the statements from TPC are inaccurate. Unfortunately this sort of thing happens on occasion.


“…why are street trike legal and off road trikes not? simple...LIVE rear axle!!!”

This is inaccurate, there is no mention anywhere stating that they were banned because they had a solid axle.



“street trikes have limited slip and or single wheel drive. Off road trikes have a solid axle.”

This is inaccurate, not ALL off road 3 wheelers have solid axles. The 80’s Kawasaki KLT 185’s, 200’s and 250’s all had dual purpose differentials that could be locked and unlocked.



“It is the solid axle that makes them "difficult" to turn.”

This is true to some degree, however the statement is out of context and incomplete. The FACT is, “off road” terrain [dirt] provides FAR less traction than the asphalt or concrete, the rear tires “slip” fairly easily on it during turns which allows the vehicle to be turned fairly easily and in a reasonably safe manner.

[czac]

I don't think it was ever "Illegal" to sell a 3 wheeler. It was more of a volentary thing. I do know someone that claims to have found some of the fender molds, but honda won't release them. there's a guy on eBay selling brand new plastics for the Yamaha TRI Z. I just bought a front fender off him. I don't know if he made his own mold or found one someplace. Funny though, they don't come with the bolt holes in them and the vents on the back part are there but not cut out. this is why I think he made his own mold.

[czac]

lol they probably sold them when they got some of them new, cool, slick looking quads! lol

[czac]

I love it when a bunch of people try and regulate something they know nothing about. If these Parents, News guys, Politicians and so called experts took the time to actually learn about what they are trying to regulate, maybe they'd see that its not as bad as it seems. Just like all the BS last spring with everyone hopping on the Ban Assault weapons band wagon... We've all seen the videos and read of the dimwits pushing for tighter regulations but not know what they are trying to regulate... there was that woman from God knows where, some senator or something, she said she was for Banning Hi capacity magazines because once the gun owners use up all of the ones out there, when they run out of bullets, they wont be able to buy any more. uhm, What the hell wazzat lady?? You refill the mags with more Ammo, you don't throw them away and buy a new one... lol Or the VP dingbat telling people, "get yourself a shot gun, a double barrel, that's what I tell my wife. Grab the gun and run outside, fire both barrels into the air and the crook will run away." Yeah that's exactly what you should do.... if you want the crook to shoot you! Idiot!!

IF YOU DIDNT SEE IT YET.. HERES THE VIDEO, SHE STATES HE STUPIDITY AT THE 2:55 MARK.... LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxtu228bYFw