Thoughts on putting 6 speed transmission in 200x.

[bandito90]

I'd like to get opinions on putting a 6 speed trans in a first gen 200x. I know the sixth is basically an overdrive and first through five are the same gear ratios in the 200x.
Besides really long wide open areas. will it be worth putting in. I'm currently building a 200x that will not be an all out race bike. Big bore cam and exhaust will pretty
much be the motor work done.

Thanks

[tri again]

Sounds interesting.
Would love to hear more.

[rg97]

Unless you create your own complete transmission your best bet is to get an XR200 transmission which was 6 speed and will fit in 200x cases with some modification. With some work you can fit an XR200 6 speed tranny in there.
You have to be careful too because with an engine making more power (big bore, cam and exhaust like you said) the thinner gears will break easier. A 6 speed is a definite no-no for a stroker crank because of the HP but with just those mods that you want you may be OK. Someone said that they thought shortline had done it before, maybe he will chime in.
Prepare for it to be expensive

[rg97]

A quick eBay search brought up a bunch of complete 6 sp. XR200 transmissions about $100+. So count that in plus sending it somewhere to do the custom work (maybe? some said you need to, some said you dont, so IDK :wondering), or be brave enough to do it yourself. I do not know what all needs done though.
When I looked through the XR and X transmission and drum parts diagrams nothing really is the same but the parts may fit either cases
And it turns out that Only certain years cross over. The 84-85 had a different design than the 86+ which are the years that work.

You can use the XR gears, selectors and forks in your standard cases or use the XR cases as they are the same as the '83 - '85 200X cases.
I found the six speed useful for a high revving engine but with a stroker stick with the five speed.

[the great gazoo]

Methinks you might have the XR200 transmission already, Timmy?

[RoscoW]

I put a 6 spd in my wifes 85 200X, used a transmission gear set from an 83 XR. Other than the tooth count on the kicker gears it's a straight across swap. 1st thru 3rd are identical ratios, and the final ratio ends up at .815:1 on the 6 spd vs .923:1 on the 5spd. that difference is spread over 4th, 5th and 6th. With dropping to 20" tires, top speed probably didn't change but the spacing seems perfect.

Build thread, sorry for the lost pictures
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/152459-Why-can-t-I-just-leave-them-alone........another-full-build

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af77/Roscowbuggies/200X%20rebuild/CIMG0150_zpsf05859e2.jpg (http://s995.photobucket.com/user/Roscowbuggies/media/200X%20rebuild/CIMG0150_zpsf05859e2.jpg.html)

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af77/Roscowbuggies/200X%20rebuild/CIMG0160_zpsaffe90c5.jpg (http://s995.photobucket.com/user/Roscowbuggies/media/200X%20rebuild/CIMG0160_zpsaffe90c5.jpg.html)

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af77/Roscowbuggies/200X%20rebuild/IMG_2165_zpscc5b19fd.jpg (http://s995.photobucket.com/user/Roscowbuggies/media/200X%20rebuild/IMG_2165_zpscc5b19fd.jpg.html)

[hillbilly 200x]

I love my 200x now that it was a six speed in it. It's so much nicer when you have to do any road running. I rode the crap put of it last year and i never had any issues with it. Mine was bored out to a 202 cc with xr cam ported head 30 mm carb open air box and supper trap exhausted trust me I didn't ride it easy. In one of my old threads short line did post and say that the 6 speed is weak and wouldn't hold up with a fully built engine.

[bandito90]

So it seems everybody who has done the swap seems to like it. I do have an xr200 motor already.I have to split the cases on my 200x to fix the slipping kicker gears.Thought it would be a good time to do the swap.As far as strength I know guys put stroker
cranks in the XR200.

[hillbilly 200x]

^^ Yes they have but they only had to turn one tire that is only a few inches wide not two tires that are 10 - 12 inches wide.

[barnett468]

The following is just an example [not exact numbers] of what you can expect.

If you leave your engine stock, and put in the 6 spd, your top speed will increase by around 6-7 mph.

If you add the performance upgrades like cam and pipe etc., you will likely have less bottom end hp/tq but your eng will turn more rpm which will make 1 thru 3 gears seem like they are farther apart when shifting at max rpm. It will also increase top speed by around an additional 4-5 mph due to the increased eng rpm.
To compensate for the wider gear feel, potential loss of bottom end perf [created by the upgrade] and to increase acceleration rate, you can change the gear ratio by increasing the rear sprocket size around 3 teeth or reducing the front sprocket by 1 tooth etc..
What this does is improve bottom end perf and bring the gears closer together, but still provide for more top speed than you currently have if geared properly.

The higher the sprocket ratio is, the lower the load/stress is on the gears.

Installing smaller diameter tires like RoscoW did will do the same thing as increasing the sprocket ratio.

[Toaster556]

Unless you create your own complete transmission your best bet is to get an XR200 transmission which was 6 speed and will fit in 200x cases with some modification. With some work you can fit an XR200 6 speed tranny in there.
You have to be careful too because with an engine making more power (big bore, cam and exhaust like you said) the thinner gears will break easier. A 6 speed is a definite no-no for a stroker crank because of the HP but with just those mods that you want you may be OK. Someone said that they thought shortline had done it before, maybe he will chime in.
Prepare for it to be expensive

Where are you getting that information? I know of more than one XR200, ridden hard with a sticky trials tire and a stroker crank. I also have seen a Powroll 240 kit (stroker crank, 70 mm piston) thats been ridden hard, put away wet and still the stock six speed. Yes, the Powroll stroker needs to be notched for a six speed, but Ive been around XR200s in many forms for a long long time and rarely have seen any transmission issues.

[rg97]

Like someone else said, an XR200 has to turn a thin piece of rubber that weighs next to nothing compared to a pair of 11" tires on a 200x. Xr200's weigh less overall too. More stress on all transmission parts hauling more wieght and rotation more mass

[fabiodriven]

Like someone else said, an XR200 has to turn a thin piece of rubber that weighs next to nothing compared to a pair of 11" tires on a 200x. Xr200's weigh less overall too. More stress on all transmission parts hauling more wieght and rotation more mass

What I want to know is if you're speaking from experience or speculating (again)? I've been watching this just to educate myself, but I'm sure the OP is looking for the most accurate information he can get.

[slashfan7964]

What I want to know is if you're speaking from experience or speculating (again)? .

Why does it matter?

[fabiodriven]

Because I'm looking for facts from people who know, not the opinion of a kid.

[oscarmayer]

i have to agree. facts and actual first hand experiences FAR outweigh any speculation. that's called arm-chair racing when you speculate. if speculation was fact, why play the Superbowl? the stats tell it all right?

while i do agree that chances of there being "major failures easily", is probably not gonna happen on the 6 vs. 5, it also does make sense that they had to think the metal some on the 6 since it is the same width case as the 5. that means it's overall stress is increased. I see both sides, which is why someone with first had experiences and build 6-speed trikes should chime in to discuss further.

[bandito90]

I, agree that there will be more stress on the trike vs the bike and that the thinner gears will probably be weaker. @rg97 the the dry weight I found for a mid 90's xr200 is 222.7 pounds. The dry weight of the 200x is 282.2. Being sixty pounds or so
heavier doesn't seem that much to me. I'm probably going to put it in. I don't think I'll be making that much power with what I got planned.

[rg97]

This whole disagreement dealt with a stroker crank. Bandito, you aren't doing that to your bike so you should be fine with it. I was never looking to step on anyones toes

[slashfan7964]

Because I'm looking for facts from people who know, not the opinion of a kid.

I don't know why you keep referring to me as a kid. I am a legal adult.

But fair enough.

[trike savior]

I have been looking in to doing this as well. apparently the person who knows most about this is jenndnn3. search for a thread called "xr200 transmission in a 200x" that one has the best info I have found yet. on page 2 of that post, jenn chimes in with a link to info on .org.

sounds like everything is interchangeable but the 200x kick gear is too wide for the xr200 counter gear. but you need the other 200x parts to get the forward kick.

still have not found anything definitive on exactly what years work. sounds like 83-85. seems you need trans from before they went to twin exhaust. dont know why that makes a difference but that was what I read somewhere.

[fabiodriven]

This whole disagreement dealt with a stroker crank. Bandito, you aren't doing that to your bike so you should be fine with it. I was never looking to step on anyones toes

How do you know?

[rg97]

will not be an all out race bike. Big bore cam and exhaust will pretty much be the motor work done.
I don't think I'll be making that much power with what I got planned.
Gee I dont know do I?

[fabiodriven]

I fail to see how that proves you've done anything more than speculate.

[rg97]

I fail to see how you've done anything to help the OP in this thread.

[fabiodriven]

I didn't post anything to help, I was watching to learn. I post when I know something. I saw your original posts and thought you knew something, but then I realized you were just speculating. I didn't like that because the truth is that you have no real world experience with this subject. We all know how to Google and can all speculate, but the difference is some of us have much, much more experience than others. By speaking as if you know when you do not, you only add confusion to the subject at hand. Those who sit quietly and attentively stand to gain knowledge that they can apply down the road, while those who choose to speak rather than listen never even hear what was said.

[blue27]

Put it in Timmy, then I will know if I want to put it in mine when I get to that project!!!

[rg97]

I didn't post anything to help, I was watching to learn. I post when I know something. I saw your original posts and thought you knew something, but then I realized you were just speculating. I didn't like that because the truth is that you have no real world experience with this subject. We all know how to Google and can all speculate, but the difference is some of us have much, much more experience than others. By speaking as if you know when you do not, you only add confusion to the subject at hand. Those who sit quietly and attentively stand to gain knowledge that they can apply down the road, while those who choose to speak rather than listen never even hear what was said.
You talk about I speculate this speculate that, yet with no evidence that I have experience you try and prove me wrong and tell me ho much I use google for my answers here. First, let's get this straight, I've never used google to provide the answers that I give. The thing is, I told the OP that from other threads I've seen, it is possible. This switch is not the most common thing in the world and I was not sure that someone like roscoW would chime in. You're right in the fact that I have never done the switch, but I had seen others do it with detailed descriptions, and I provided the OP with info from greenhuman in an earlier thread. The other advice I gave him about the weak gears WAS from experience. I have had to replace the 3rd gear in my bike, and many others have to. Coincidence? I think not. 6 gears in the same place as 5 of them (one of which was weak already). Hmm. What do you think would happen? Its common sense, and it's from experience.

There has been a closed thread already today and I'm sure with the way it's going this one will be soon to be locked as well. One factor carries over in both: YOU

[atc300r]

From what I read about #81 Mac Moores 200x racer he is running a stroker motor with a six speed tranny.He won Ashtabula last year against 250 two strokes.

[fabiodriven]

You talk about I speculate this speculate that, yet with no evidence that I have experience you try and prove me wrong and tell me ho much I use google for my answers here.

I asked you if you had real world experience in this subject and you skirted around the issue. I don't see what's so hard about answering a question. I never said you used Google, I said we all know how to use it.


First, let's get this straight, I've never used google to provide the answers that I give.

I don't know why you wouldn't, it's a plethora of information if you know how to weed through the nitwits.

I'm not sure why you didn't say something like this-


The other advice I gave him about the weak gears WAS from experience. I have had to replace the 3rd gear in my bike, and many others have to.

when I asked you this-


What I want to know is if you're speaking from experience or speculating (again)?

Seems to me like that would have been a pretty good reply to the question I asked you. I realize you kids have trouble being corrected, and know I now you also don't know how to answer a question when asked. Duly noted. We can work on that as well.


One factor carries over in both: YOU

I'm going to correct you again so brace yourself. There are three things in common with this thread and the thread that was locked. You, me, and another younger member.

[slashfan7964]

Why do you feel the need to reign superiority over everyone? Just asking. This is an internet forum where anyone can post. I get what you are trying to say, really I do, but most of us just want to help out.

[Louis Mielke]

This getting old guys. Once again I find a thread that after skimming half a page I don't want to read it at all. While I don't want to discourage anyone from posting I also am tired of seeing this. I recommend you both put each other on your ignore lists and get on with life. If you don't want to do that then when you see each other bite your tongue and leave the thread. I don't want to have to type a message like this again. I'm serious, there's going to be some time off for both of you if I find another thread like this. I don't care who's right or what the topic is, it doesn't matter this shouldn't be happening.