H.E.L.P. Spark Plug Questions

[Liquid-Darkness]

I am sure this is not the first time its happend on here. I think the guy I got it from before did it.

Well dang it I went to put a new spark plug in my 85 Honda 350x today. DR8ES-L Tightened it till it stopped, then I went to snug it like I have done a million times with other spark plugs and guess what happens... Yup it kept turning. So I backed it up a lil and tried again. It snugged up a lil but I am almost sure my spark plug hole is trashed..

What are my options? Can I tap the head and use a bigger spark plug? Heli coil it? What can I do? Please let me know I want this bad boy to run as I am going to do the registration at the end of the week!! :naughty:

[rg97]

Pull the plug an access damage. I say go heli-coil. There was an info thread somewhere here to explain how to properly use a heli coil. You can try and see if you can fund it. I will edit my post if I find the link.

[DohcBikes]

If you are going to heli-coil or time-cert the hole yourself, I recommend getting more information than just the info that you find on this site.

Load yourself up on information, tips, and techniques before you attempt this for the first time. You can do it. Good luck.

[yaegerb]

Find the dimensions of your sparkplug hole and fix it with a time sert, don't use helicoil. Its more expensive, but stronger than stock and will last forever.

http://www.timesert.com/html/sparkplug.html

[Liquid-Darkness]

Well I feel like a dummy... lol I went back out side to my bike and thought "I gotta be missing something." So I pulled the new spark plug and examined it with the old one.. The old plug was all black with soot on the tip that sparks.. It also did not have the washer like the new one did.. I thought to my self, its gotta be the wrong socket I was using (3/4) standard I think. I got a 19mm socket and tried to tighten it up and sure enuf to my luck the plug started to tighten. I tightened it pretty good like a normal spark plug.. I am leaving it well enuf ALONE now hehehe until I gotta tune it up again..

Thanks for the support though and I hope to keep this thread because if I am wrong, I will proly have to redo the spark plug hole. Man I lucked out hehehe. Oh thank god it tightened hehehe.

[barnett468]

Well I feel like a dummy... lol I went back out side to my bike and thought "I gotta be missing something." I thought to my self, its gotta be the wrong socket I was using (3/4) standard I think. I got a 19mm socket and tried to tighten it up and sure enuf to my luck the plug started to tighten.

All spark plugs are designed to use inch/decimal sockets NOT metric ones. That plug takes an 11/16” [.6875”] socket. An 18 mm is slightly larger but will also fit. A 19 mm socket is .748” which is .0605” larger than 11/16”. A 3/4” socket is .750” which is .062.5” larger than 11/16”.





Well So I pulled the new spark plug and examined it with the old one.. It also did not have the washer like the new one did…All plugs with a non tapered seat use a washer.





Well The old plug was all black with soot on the tip that sparks..

I am leaving it well enuf ALONE now hehehe until I gotta tune it up again…If the plug was dry and black it is running very rich and should be jetted properly. Make sure the air cleaner is clean and the GAS level in the carb is correct before jetting.

If your plug is moist and gooey black, it is burning oil and may also be rich.

Lite gray smoke from the exhaust pipe is burnt, very dark smoke is too rich and may also be burning oil.

[barnett468]

POST CORRECTION

"burnt' should be "burnt oil"


I have no edit button.

[CRAZY70MAN]

Sometimes the socket wall itself is so large if you are not using a plug specified socket it will hit the head area. I have encountered that same dismal feeling....lol... The 350x has a pretty tight area to work with for sparkplugs in my opinion....

[DohcBikes]

18mm socket works just fine.

I prefer not to use regular spark plug sockets on motorcycles, they always seem to get stuck on there on the worst position or leave the o-ring behind when you pull the socket off.

Its a weird preference maybe but thats my .02

Don't feel like a dummy for putting time in and working on your bike. Everyone makes mistakes. Be proud that you can admit it when you do!!

To save damage on the trail, I keep my spare plugs in the box they came in until I need them.

[Liquid-Darkness]

Thanks for all the help fellas. It should be alright I am gunna take it for a spin later this morning..

[dougspcs]

All spark plugs are designed to use inch/decimal sockets NOT metric ones. That plug takes an 11/16” [.6875”] socket. An 18 mm is slightly larger but will also fit. A 19 mm socket is .748” which is .0605” larger than 11/16”. A 3/4” socket is .750” which is .062.5” larger than 11/16”.


Sorry Barnett, I'm gonna have to call you out on this one. Your information is incorrect..

The NGK DR8/DR9 and others ARE a metric plug.

18MM is correct..the 11/16" will not fit. What the OP is stating about using the 3/4" and having it slip on the plug is correct..this was his original problem (thank goodness)

[barnett468]

Sorry Barnett, I'm gonna have to call you out on this one. Your information is incorrect..

The NGK DR8/DR9 and others ARE a metric plug. 18MM is correct..the 11/16" will not fit.

I must confess, I haven’t personally had a socket on one of those small plugs in a while, however, I thought my old Chinese 11/16” socket did fit them, lol

In my defense, since it appears as though I need one now, I DID in fact reconfirm what I thought by looking it up on the internet BEFORE I posted, the plug wrench sizes I mentioned are posted below along with the link to the sites the info came from.

Now can ANYONE please tell me if they have ever seen a 17.5 mm socket like the one NGK mentions as the proper metric size for their plug?

Maybe plugs were a hair smaller years ago and the new ones are being made in China now and are a hair larger, lol.


I DID actually mean to say they were metric, however, an 11/16” "should" fit. As Fabiodriven once said recently, “It was a TYPO.”. Yes?...Maybe?...Not goin for that one?

Hey, at least I was the ONLY one BEFORE you that knew it was NOT a 3/4” or 19 mm, lol.


Below is right off NGK’s site. Just click on “SPECS”.

"Hex Size: 11/16" (17.5mm)"

http://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9747


From another site.

"Hex Size 18mm (11/16")"

http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/ngk-dr8esl.html

:beer

[dougspcs]

In my defense, since it appears as though I need one now, I DID in fact reconfirm what I thought by looking it up on the internet BEFORE I posted, the plug wrench sizes I mentioned are posted below along with the link to the sites the info came from.

The internet a source of WRONG information?? NNNHHHOOOOO!

187485

[Liquid-Darkness]

Hehehehe.. What I really need is one of those sockets that are a true spark plug thin socket that fits in a tool kit on the grab bar.

[barnett468]

Hehehehe.Hey, stop laughin, nobody asked you, lol.




Hehehehe.. What I really need is one of those sockets that are a true spark plug thin socket that fits in a tool kit on the grab bar.Ok, I’ll be brave [or stupid] and give it one more try.

Here’s some, they use a hex wrench, 3/8 drive or a short rod through the hole in the top and it is a thin wall, SO SAYETH THE INTERNET!

I would think you "should" be able to find a cheap stamped steel original style one for 5 bucks somewhere but hey...I've apparently been wrong BEFORE.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-Spark-Plug-Socket-18mm-Honda-KTM-Yamaha-Thin-Wall-XR-TRX-YFM-SX-SXC-/171168106928#ht_1013wt_930

http://www.toolsource.com/thin-wall-spark-plug-socket-18mm-p-103191.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=18mm+thin+wall+spark+plug+socket&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a




The internet a source of WRONG information?? NNNHHHOOOOO!Hey, it wasn’t just the internet, it was from the NGK SITE. Maybe NGK sells 17.5 mm sockets, lol.


NO WARRANTEES OR GUARANTEES EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED WITH THIS POST!

:beer

[Liquid-Darkness]

Id like to find a cheapo $5 stamped orig style one... Thanks for the help..

[barnett468]

Id like to find a cheapo $5 stamped orig style one... Thanks for the help..your wish is my command!

Buy the original one brand new from the site below. p/n 89213-968-000, $17.00

item 10 on this page

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc350x-1985-usa_model968/box-wrench-p18x17_89213968000/


item 16 on this page.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc350x-1985-usa_model968/partslist/F++24.html#results


Partzilla may or may not have it. $9.50

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-89213-968-000.html


orig correct wrench 89213=968-000 $16.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-89213-968-000-BOX-WRENCH-/131073570462#ht_523wt_930


orig honda 2 way wrench for a different model. $11.50

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-HONDA-BOX-WRENCH-89218-KM9-000/190923630346?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D163%26meid%3D5078835241934825534%26pid%3D10 0005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D131073 570462%26#ht_1175wt_1113

[DohcBikes]

Wow that motion pro socket is kind of pricey!!

Hey L.D. I'm almost certain that I have an extra OEM Honda spark plug box wrench here. If I can scrounge it up today I'll pm you and send it to you if you want it. Otherwise I think Barnett has a couple links up there to the original part number for about ten bucks. I don't think a $5 one exists anymore LOL!

[Liquid-Darkness]

Wow that motion pro socket is kind of pricey!!

Hey L.D. I'm almost certain that I have an extra OEM Honda spark plug box wrench here. If I can scrounge it up today I'll pm you and send it to you if you want it. Otherwise I think Barnett has a couple links up there to the original part number for about ten bucks. I don't think a $5 one exists anymore LOL!

Great just let me know what you want for it in a PM. THanks!!

[DohcBikes]

Well here's some insight into my idea of fun and hopefully a couple choices for a free plug wrench for ya L.D.

This might be more info than necessary, but since the NGK 18mm issue came into play, here ya go. These pics are fuzzy but I just want you to know that I did have the plug and the sockets here to measure them.

Anyone concerned for my safety or mental health, don't worry, Im drinking.

NGK-R DR8ES-L Spark Plug measures 17.80mm consistently on the flat sides. 20.28mm at the largest, point to point diagonally.
187557. 187558

I measured this stuff with a Chinese Digital "Very Near" Caliper. I wore my best clothes too.

187559

These sockets all come from the same kit.

19mm socket measures 19.32mm consistently at the top of the arcs of the convex inside surfaces, or the smallest inside to inside measurement possible on a six side socket. All socket measurements from here should reference. The 19mm is small enough to work, but close to too big.

187567

18mm socket measures 18.34mm

187560

11/16 socket measures 17.74mm

187561

OPTIONS. I think I have two good ones for ya. I'm 100% positive that I'm not sure where I got em.

The first one, I think its from an 85 200s tool kit. One end says 17, one end says P(plug).

The 17 side measures 17.54mm. The P side measures 18.76mm. Its the longer of the two options at 104.27mm.

187565

The second option is a mystery, it measures 18.50mm, which makes it more snug on the NGK. It is however shorter at 72.57mm

187566

Let me know which one you want, if either, and I'll send it to you free of charge:beer

[Liquid-Darkness]

Well here's some insight into my idea of fun and hopefully a couple choices for a free plug wrench for ya L.D.

This might be more info than necessary, but since the NGK 18mm issue came into play, here ya go. These pics are fuzzy but I just want you to know that I did have the plug and the sockets here to measure them.

Anyone concerned for my safety or mental health, don't worry, Im drinking.

NGK-R DR8ES-L Spark Plug measures 17.80mm consistently on the flat sides. 20.28mm at the largest, point to point diagonally.
187557. 187558

I measured this stuff with a Chinese Digital "Very Near" Caliper. I wore my best clothes too.

187559

These sockets all come from the same kit.

19mm socket measures 19.32mm consistently at the top of the arcs of the convex inside surfaces, or the smallest inside to inside measurement possible on a six side socket. All socket measurements from here should reference. The 19mm is small enough to work, but close to too big.

187567

18mm socket measures 18.34mm

187560

11/16 socket measures 17.74mm

187561

OPTIONS. I think I have two good ones for ya. I'm 100% positive that I'm not sure where I got em.

The first one, I think its from an 85 200s tool kit. One end says 17, one end says P(plug).

The 17 side measures 17.54mm. The P side measures 18.76mm. Its the longer of the two options at 104.27mm.

187565

The second option is a mystery, it measures 18.50mm, which makes it more snug on the NGK. It is however shorter at 72.57mm

187566

Let me know which one you want, if either, and I'll send it to you free of charge:beer

Thats great!! I would like the first one of the two. Thanks so much!!