honda 200x dies after warmed up HELLLp

[vince22944]

i just bought an 83 honda 200x it ran perfect the first day! i got on it today started fine drove it around for a bit i noticed it was loosing power and putting around! i cleaned carb and got a new air filter. what could be going on im new to trikes and repairing them. hoping someome can give me some ides on what to do. air fuel mixture possibly??

[ATC90JAY]

Sounds like one for Barnett & Dohc.....They will be able to help you out...Does it have a stock exhaust?

[vince22944]

yea it has stock exhaust. Whos barnett and Dohc. Any Ideas on what i should do..

[ATC90JAY]

They are not online now but when they read your post they should be able to help. Sounds like a carb issue to me...Is it an OEM carb?

[Cornholio]

Replace your CDI box. If that doesnt change anything, it would be time to test your coil. Or, if you havent.. Replace the spark plug. DR8ESL (NGK)

[vince22944]

i just got the bike yesterday but im pretty sure its stock carb. what a cdi box im new to all of this. first time ever working on a bike

[barnett468]

Hello;


WARNING - Reading the following post may cause drowsiness. Please read in a safe place.


VENT TANK - I might loosen the gas cap to see if that cures the prob, if not retighten it and check items below.


GAS – If you did not drain it completely, I would do that and install new gas.


FUEL CONTAMINANT CHECK

Was there any debris in your carb?

Did you insure the jets are clear?

There is a small screw on the bottom of the carb, turn the gas OFF, open screw and drain gas into a small narrow glass. If it is yellow, the gas is bad. If there is a small clear bubble on the bottom, it is water. If there is debris, it might be getting sucked up into your jets.

I would install a small clear fuel filter between the carb and tank. If there is debris in the tank that is plugging up the gas valve your filter will be dry at which point you should clean your tank.

You might also clean the carb if you find debris, especially if it still runs bad afterwards, however, hopefully most, if not all of it came out when you drained the carb.


GAS LEVEL - Check the actual gas level in the carb by doing the following:

1. get a small 10” long piece of clear plastic tube.
2. connect it to the float bowl drain fitting.
3. hold it close to the carb with the open end even with the top of the carb.
4. open the gas valve on the tank and drain screw on the carb bowl.
5. the gas in the tube should be from even with the bottom of the main carb body to 3/16” below it. If it is outside this range, I would correct it.


CHECK TIMING

Remove plug on rt cover [item 3 in link below].

Rotate engine until you see an "F" in the window.

Clean it with a q tip and cleaner.

Put a line of white out on the mark.

Check timing with timing lite in shaded area so it is easily visible.

The timing should be on this mark at idle, if it is, rev the engine, the mark should disappear.

If it is not on this mark or the mark does not move when the engine is revved, there is likely a prob with you advance unit [item 3 in the second link].

Remove cover and inspect for broken springs and insure that it moves freely and returns FULLY to stop. if not clean and grease it and if there is no preload on it when it is in the closed position, bend the spring tabs out a hair until there is.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc200x-1983-usa_model64/partslist/E++09.html#results

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc200x-1983-usa_model64/partslist/E++02.html#results


PLUGGED MUFFLER - Something might have broken loose in the muffler internally causing it to run badly. This is uncommon and if it idles poorly, this is not likely your prob.


FUEL MIX SCREW - This is on the bottom of your carb near the front [see item 6 in link below]. Take a tiny blade screwdriver and turn it in 1/2 turn then out 1 full turn and see if it has an affect on the idle and performance.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc200x-1983-usa_model64/partslist/F++17.html#results


CDI – It is highly unlikely that the CDI worked fine one day but went bad soon after, however, they seem to have a high failure rate on a HONDA, lol.

You can buy a Chinese one from Ebay for $5.00 and send member KBONLY a PM asking how to wire it up or post a new thread asking, however, I would check the other simple free things first.


SPARK PLUG – Yeah, as suggested, try a new one.


PKUG SPARK – Lay it on the head and see what color the spark is ie., weak yellow or crisp pale blue etc..


What color is the plug?

White
Lite tan
Dark tan
Dry black
Moist gooey black


What brand is your carb, there are tiny numbers/letters on the side, what are they?

What is your elevation?

What is the air temp when you are riding?

How much choke did it take to start the day it ran good?

How cold was the air temp?

Did it start easily?




Sounds like one for Barnett & Dohc.....They will be able to help you out...Does it have a stock exhaust?Hi, thanks for the vote of confidence and I for one am happy if any of my suggestions were of help to you as I assume DohcBikes is also, however, there are actually many people here that are very knowledgeable that can and will help if they are around.

:beer

[YTZ drew]

there are actually many people here that are very knowledgeable that can and will help if they are around.

:beer

You are right about that, but your posts are as accurate (and as long) as any textbook I have ever read! :beer

[barnett468]

You are right about that, but your posts are as accurate...Are you referring to this part?

"WARNING - Reading the following post may cause drowsiness. Please read in a safe place."




(and as long) as any textbook I have ever read!Looks like it might be time to trade in your edition of Dr. Seuss's book "A Cat In The Hat" for something with a few more pages in it. Ok, sorry [not really], couldn't help myself, that was WAY too easy. :Bounce


Actually, I put spaces between the lines to make my posts look longer because I know it annoys some people.


http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[DohcBikes]

If it ran perfect the first day, then started acting up, I would look away from the CDI and the timing, but just for now. Jumping the gun, it sounds like you are flooding or you have debris in the carb.

Read Barnett's post carefully and do what you can to give us some results from those checks.

Use the search function here as well, because as Jay stated, sometimes the guy with the answer will be offline, and its faster to do some research on similar issues.

When you have a mystery issue, its very important that you give us whatever info and results you can, and answer EVERY QUESTION as well as you can, no matter if you think thats it or not, so that we can adapt our suggestions to pinpoint the issue. Stick with it.

[Birddog85]

Vince, DOHC thank you!
I took my 84 X for it's first ride yesterday and had very similar issues.

She starts fine but wont idle, doesn't have power up top (my buddys 185s stomped me in a race) and the plug is reading dry and black.

I'm going to be messing with it today.
If I have any breakthroughs I'll post em. If not I'll keep an eye on this thread.

[DohcBikes]

Vince, DOHC thank you!

If I have any breakthroughs I'll post em. If not I'll keep an eye on this thread.Good, that will help.

And thank you, but don't forget BARNETT!! Its too early for me to be typing all that info lol....

[barnett468]

I took my 84 X for it's first ride yesterday and had very similar issues.

She starts fine but wont idle, doesn't have power up top (my buddys 185s stomped me in a race) and the plug is reading dry and black.Dry black is too rich. I would install a new plug or clean that one with a wire brush and carb cleaner until it is almost white so you can read the color on it after 30 minutes of riding.

I would also do the gas level check first. If your floats are not set properly it may adversely affect jetting.

If it burbles/sputters upon acceleration it is way too rich. if it simply hesitates/"bogs" like it is out of gas it is lean. I would try a jet that is at least 2 sizes in the proper direction.

Make sure your air filter is fairly clean prior to jetting.

Tell us what mods, jets and type carb you have etc.

[DohcBikes]

^^^^^^^what he said.

Except the plug cleaning part, buy a new plug(as suggested as well) or two for tuning.

[Birddog85]

Thanks to uou too Barnett.
I haven't pulled the carb yet. We did the basics prior to riding like oil, fresh gas, new plug, timing check and valve lash.
It's a fresh rebuild .060 over, DG exhaust and It's "jetted" but I won't know the jets till I yank yhe carb.

[DohcBikes]

Ya yours sounds rich then. Should be running between 112 and a 118 main. Pilot will likely be fine with the stock #40.

Go ahead and start a new thread with your findings, we don't want to have two seperate bikes in one thread, it can get confusing. Good luck!

[barnett468]

Thanks to uou too Barnett.
I haven't pulled the carb yet. We did the basics prior to riding like oil, fresh gas, new plug, timing check and valve lash.
It's a fresh rebuild .060 over, DG exhaust and It's "jetted" but I won't know the jets till I yank yhe carb.

Sure no prob.

Please tell me you did NOT use synthetic oil to break it in on.

If your plug was new, the float level is too high and/or the jetting is too rich.

How much choke does it require to start?

How cold is it there?

What is your elevation?

Does it idle ok?


If you run a bike for very long when it is excessively rich it will ruin the piston rings.

[ATC90JAY]

You guys (Barnett & Dohc) have always been there to fix my problems and mistakes for that I thank you!! Im learning more and doing more work on my trikes than I thought I would.. Thanks to your accurrate guidence... Also a word to the new guys when Barnett and Dohc get tired of helping someday..lol I always save there post copy them to word documents and file them in my ATC help folder...Maybe we can help the new guys in the future!! If I meet you guys at Bundy Hill/Trikefest or any event. A round will be on me for sure!!! :beer

[Liquid-Darkness]

WHen I got my 84 200X it did not idle after warming up either. I ended up

adjusting the valves
replacing the spark plug
changing the oil
adjusting the cam chain tenstioner
rebuilding the carb

doing this and my bike idled real sweet.

[DohcBikes]

When he got his 200x it ran fine and the next day it did not. Something happened suddenly. While the things you have mentioned are all good things to check and set correctly, the spark plug, which has been mentioned a couple times, is the only thing on your list that can change quick enough to suddenly and significantly downgrade the performance.

[rg97]

Could be an air leak around the intake. That would case the symptoms of running good cold, then as everything warms (expanding) you lose a seal. If you have a set of feeling gauges, try and get a .005 feeler between the black intake boot and the head. If they go in no probs, you have an air leak. You can try tightening those two bolts some (just a lil more than snug if they arent already). If they are tight, and you still have a problem, your O-RING may have gone bad around the intake.
Look on eBay or your local shop for one of these part #'s:
91304-HB3-003 - this exact oring is used all the way up to the 2009 crf230, so your local honda store may have one in stock.
91302-943-003 - this oring is the same size but has a different part #. It was used up to the '02 XR200R
91302-200-000 - same as #2

While you're at it, drain your gas, get some new 93 in there, reclean the crab and carb jets, and put a new spark plug in. I prefer the NGK DR8IEX. Iridium plug.

You said that you didnt know what a CDI is. Nobody that I saw told you where or what it is. If you take off your tank (you dont have to but its a lot easier) above the cylinder head there are two black plastic electrical contraptions with wires running to them. There is a cylindrical one and a rectangular box, about 1" x 1" x 2". The rectangular one is the CDI.

If you dont have a timing light like Mike suggested using, then you are C.O.L. on checking/fixing timing unless you know something I dont.

Birddog:
In addition to what I said above, It is possible that on a "fresh rebuild" something was not torqued correctly. My 200x ran like crap until I got the proper torque specs on the head. Download a service manual from http://www.atcmanuals.info/ and make sure everything is torqued correctly on the head. If you dont have a torque wrench, go buy one (not cheap) or find a buddy that has one.

[vince22944]

yea i think its flodded i got it to turn over this morning and idle for about 5 min than tried again and now i cant get it to turn over at all. Spark plug was completly black but had spark. i was thinking new carb and plug?

[rg97]

It will turn over with the plug out, right?

[vince22944]

the trike wont turn over at all now even tried push starting barely turns over even when pushing trottle than shuts off. and i noticed a little gas coming from over flow and pilot screw im kinda lost right now . spark plugs a little moist black tried cleanin it . its about 65 degrees where i live. when i first got it it started with no choke very easily. the carberator is a keihin 62aavd. about all i know for right now

[DohcBikes]

You need to review the information we have given you. Try the tests, checks, inspections. Tell us what you find.

If you just keep trying to run it the way it is without trying the things we suggest, then we are all wasting our time.

[vince22944]

elevation is 305ft forgot to include that

[rg97]

the trike wont turn over at all now even tried push starting barely turns over even when pushing throttle than shuts off.
Make sure that you're in neutral when you try and kick it over for one.
If it wont turn over with the spark plug out and in neutral (midway between 1st and 2nd gear) then you seized it somehow. I cant imagine that it leaned out but maybe.
If you cant get it into neutral, pull in the clutch, push the trike back and forth, and go down on the shifter until you hit 1st gear. You'll be able to tell because the shifter doesnt go as far and you wont hear a "click"
Then, pull up on the shifter, not hard enough to go to second gear, maybe half or 1/3 that power. You should feel it go into neutral. If you feel two clicks or the trike wont move with the clutch in normal position you hit second and went too far. Repeat process.

Sorry if this is like no-brainer stuff for you. Considering that you dont know much about these things I'm trying to make it easy.

[vince22944]

i know i was just replying to barnet

[rg97]

I know, I was only replying to the first sentence in your post. I just replied to all. I edited it and fixed it so it's clearer

[rg97]

Sorry for double posting, but I wanted to clarify.
When I say TURNING OVER, I am referring to the crankshaft moving, not necessarily starting. Vince, your turning over is not the same as my turning over and I apologize for the misunderstanding. When YOU say "turning over," you actually mean RUNNING
When I say RUNNING, I am talking about any sort of self-sufficient movement in the engine, whether it runs bad or not.

[barnett468]

i know i was just replying to barnetHi vince 22044;

I just replied to your chat questions.

[vince22944]

a little update so i just got done taking carb off once again everything looked good gas is clean. cleaned everything notice jets are really scatched up not sure if that maters? took the pilot screw off noticed the tip of it was messed up like if someone over tighten and it kinda looked flattened out on tip not sure if that matter? remember im new to all this im really trying to learn and get it runnin. put everything back together floats working good. tried to start nothing happen gas coming out of overflow. hip hurts from kicking lol. thats all ive tried so far next im goin to clean gas tank wait for my new carb in mail and spark plug update in couple days!

[rg97]

:pics: are going to be the key here. Provide those and we can help you the most. If there is anything that you're unsure about, take a pic, upload it to here, and we will take it from there :lol:

[vince22944]

ill take a video soon if it doesnt start with the new plug and carb im frustrated feel like the thing will never run but gunna keep trying

[vince22944]

hey so i got my new carb in the mail and they gave me the wrong size watch out for ebay carb they said it was going to be a 24mm but it was 22mm just like barnett said there idiots. so im sending it back and ill have an update in about a week

[DohcBikes]

If it doesn't start in less than 15 kicks, stop kicking, keep tuning. Tuning has killed many 200x kickers.

It will run if you keep trying.

[vince22944]

So i got bored waiting for my new carb. i went out and tried starting my 200x its been sitting for about a week. it started right up first kick i got excited went to throw my riding gear on by the time i came out it died and will not start agian gas comeing out of carb so now i know it is the carb still waiting for new one. :)