Does your doctor ask you if you have guns in your home? [Archive]

Scootertrash

03-12-2014, 01:12 PM

Noone is coming to take your guns.

Yup. Standard anti-gunner statement. "No one is coming to take your guns. We just want common some sense laws." Do you know how many laws regulating the sale, purchase, and ownership of firearms there are already? Registration leads to confiscation. It's an intentionally long, slow road called incrementalism

I would love to hear one single example of the u.s. government coming to someone's house to confiscate weapons when no crime has been committed.

So you want to wait until it starts happening before you do something about it?

Its fear mongering. They want you to think they are going to take them away so that you buy more guns and ammo, which keeps the people that actually choose our president wealthy enough to continue to be able to fool people into thinking someone is coming to take our guns.

Your logic makes no senses:
So let me get this straight:All of the manufacturers of guns and ammo drummed up 51% of the US voting to elect a president that has the most anti-gun politicians on his side of the aisle (Democrats)to PRETENDto come up with the hardest push of anti gun legislation in years to sell more guns and ammo so he would get elected for a second term?

Do you know how most gun owners and hunters vote? It ain't democrat. Same with firearms and ammunition manufacturers. Why would firearms and ammunition manufacturers move out of states that have enacted some of the strictest gun control policies in years be moving out of those states (east coast) if it was so financially beneficial to them?

If you are truly mentally unstable then you should not have guns. If you don't trust your doctor, get a new doctor.

Who determines who is mentally unstable? Who sets the criteria? The government? Physicians bound by a government mandated healthcare system and paid by the same government?

You may want to dig a little deeper into the backgrounds of those politicians who try to push the same anti gun bills year after year after year, when those same bills aren't even brought up for vote year after year after year. They are never endorsed by any firearms or ammunition manufacturers or any pro gun groups. Or is that all part of the master plan?

DohcBikes

03-12-2014, 03:03 PM

300rman

03-12-2014, 04:06 PM

Honestly I'm not going to spend my time digging deeper into any of it because I don't think it affects me. I could not care less who the president is, I'm not a democrat lol.... or anything else for that matter. I don't have time for that stuff.

I'm certainly not an anti gunner lol,,,I just am not afraid of anyone coming to take them.

Just like Briano said, come n get em, but you better bring yours with ya.

And that is the problem......people like you saying it wont happen.....look at Connecticut, or Massachusetts or whatever that east cast state is that is gearing up to confiscate....
And anyone that engages the corrupt police that show up to confiscate will simply be branded extremists......

czac

03-12-2014, 04:21 PM

Well? Do you answer honestly?

Why is it any of their business?

If you get asked, you may want to think about your answer. ;) If you think it won't be used with the new healthcare system, you're wrong.

Obama's Surgeon General Nominee--Says Banning Guns Part of medicine:
So we have a 36 year old nominee for SG? At 36 what kind of medical experience could he have?
Born and raised in Great Britain, one of the biggest anti-gun countries in existence.

http://libertyunyielding.com/2014/03/08/another-obama-nominee-cabinet-post-another-radical/#eSBToGzyECclmMIh.99

no but if he does im lying right to his face!!! lol Well, now that the great and powerful "O" has had his way, there's little we can do (we gun owners) to hide the fact that we own them anyhow... the Feds will be able to look into our Health records at will and if your a registered gun owner and they see something they don't like, you can bet your ass they will be paying you a visit with warrant to remove all guns and ammo from the premises in hand! And they say we aren't living in communists like conditions. Even those of us who've never been arrested before will be common criminals before all this is said and done.

czac

03-12-2014, 04:23 PM

Why is he giving the job to a guy from GB anyhow? not enough out of work DR's here who would be far better choices? I swear Obama is just using his position to get back at the country or someshit... he hates the US. Either that or he cant stand up to that B**ch Michele so he takes it out on u s... lol

DohcBikes

03-12-2014, 04:29 PM

kb0nly

03-12-2014, 05:33 PM

Just remember, you always have the right to make your own...

I don't answer anything on a medical form truthfully that doesn't have to do with my physical condition or medical history. I had a checkin form one time that asked if there is guns in the house, i left the answer completely blank. The nurse at the window didnt even bat an eye at it. If you answer yes your "in the system" if you answer no then your lying, so dont answer.

Caminofeld

03-12-2014, 06:02 PM

Your Doctor doesn't care about you having a gun unless you've given him/her some reason to believe that you would do something terrible with it. The insurance companies want to know because they can use it as an excuse to either raise your rates or kick you off entirely. If you suffer from a medical condition where you are taking away more money than you're contributing they want you gone because they're losing money. America has the best healthcare in the world...if you're healthy. Obama has been pushing for a national healthcare database that links all medical records to a common catalog. From a hospital standpoint, it's a great idea...but there's a good reason medical information privacy laws exist...and I'll be damned if big brother wants to further violate my right to privacy. The problem is that there's no right answer in this debate because the system is broken on all levels. You can't trust the insurance companies or the government...and the only way to fix the issue is to hit the "reset" button, tear it all down, and build it all back up from scratch...but I doubt anybody these days would ever have the balls to revolt like our founding fathers...and why would they? They have their reality TV, twitter, Facebook, etc...who needs anything else to be happy?

BTW, have you guys heard of the new delivery drones they're planning on using?

hoosierlogger

03-12-2014, 06:17 PM

If the doctor asks I'll show him the one on my hip and the one in my pocket.

El Camexican

03-13-2014, 12:35 AM

Why is he giving the job to a guy from GB anyhow?

He owes Pierce Morgan a few favors for shamelessly pushing his socialist mandates

Scootertrash

03-13-2014, 03:13 PM

These three things:

{snip} I don't think it affects me.
{snip}
I don't have time for that stuff.
{snip}
I just am not afraid of anyone coming to take them.

Lead to this:

there's little we can do (we gun owners)

Sitting around waiting for the laws to be passed does no good. Connecticut didn't end up the way it is just because of who we have for a president, it's been slowly going this direction for years, with people making the above three comments. Now they are to the point where thousands of gun owners are not registering their firearms. It should h ave never gotten this far!

Why did it get this far?
I don't think it affects me.

Why did it get this far?
I don't have time for that stuff. and
I just am not afraid of anyone coming to take them.

Well it sure looks to me like a lot of people have decided now that the law says to register your firearms that:

A: It does affect them

B:They all of a sudden certainly have time to stand up for their rights now, and

C:They must think that if they register their guns that someone will come for them once they know what they have and where they live. Why else would they refuse to register?

As far as the keyboard commando/chairborne ranger chest puffing and "If they want my guns they they have to pry them from my cold dead fingers" crap, as soon as they make examples of the first few resisters by severe means of punishment, a large majority of the internet bada$$e$ will bow down an turn in their guns. A bunch more will give up once they've had weapons pointed at them or shots fired at them (I've never been shot at, but I'm pretty confident that once bullets start flying in your direction "sh!t gets real" as they say). Once people start dying defending themselves and what used to be a God given right, many more will surrender.

So why do people want to wait until it turns into the "cold dead hands stage"? You don't wait until a plugged toilet is flowing water all over the floor to fix it.

There are an estimated 9 million firearms owners in the US. Do you know how many are in the NRA? 5 million. There was 4 million until the first big anti-gun push after Sandy Hook. NRA members like myself and others offered up sponsorships for those interested to get a life membership for 300.00 instead of the normal 1000.00 (even 2 or 3 members here signed up).

If the NRA had 7 million members do you think we would even be hearing much about gun control?

The time to stand up for your rights is before you lose them.

Scootertrash

03-13-2014, 03:20 PM

RIDE-RED 250r

03-13-2014, 03:37 PM

My answer to the initial question is this: I am not a person who lies, but when it comes to anyone nosing around in my business where they don't belong I would become a pathological liar pretty fast. It's none of their damned business and this is the beginning of policing thought, perceived intent, etc instead of prosecuting actual crime when it occurs. This is the punishing of the whole of society for the actions of the few and it is not only morally wrong but it is utterly unconstitutional!

Social media is flooded with good analogies on the stupidity of the gun-grabbing sector of our society. Real statistics back up our side of the debate every time.

But my take is this: As "educated" as our political elite claim to be, I just don't believe for 1 minute they actually believe their own BS they are shoveling to the public. There are piles and piles of real life statistics that disprove their whimsical theory that a world without firearms would be a peaceful world where nobody commits crime. This is where I believe the beginning of the deception of the sheeple begins. Why is it that drunk drivers kill more people every year than firearms ever thought of and yet they are not trying to take all of our driving privileges away for the actions o the statistical minority??? Yes, they are ramping up enforcement of drunk driving it seems every year... which is fine, pursue the criminal.

This is not REALLY about our safety folks. There is something much deeper going on. This is about complete control.. of you the citizen, in every aspect of your life.

And I hate to say this to you DOHCBIKES: but the attitude you have is what got us here. That attitude that "it doesn't effect me" is the attitude that contributed to the rise of Nazism and eventually death camps. Go ahead and laugh at me for bringing up the predictable example...ever talk to a holocaust survivor or a WWII vet that was there?

When they came for my neighbor, I said nothing. When they came for my other neighbor, I said nothing. When they came for me, there was nobody left to say anything.

If you think this cannot happen here in the good ol USA, THINK AGAIN!!! Need I remind you of the Japanese internment???!!!

Progressives like FDR, Obama, Wilson (to name a few key presidents) are the most arrogant of elitists who think it is THEIR God given right to micromanage you the citizen with no boundaries.

Be careful what you ignore........

DohcBikes

03-13-2014, 03:40 PM

These three things:

Lead to this:

Sitting around waiting for the laws to be passed does no good. Connecticut didn't end up the way it is just because of who we have for a president, it's been slowly going this direction for years, with people making the above three comments. Now they are to the point where thousands of gun owners are not registering their firearms. It should h ave never gotten this far!

Why did it get this far?

Why did it get this far? and

Well it sure looks to me like a lot of people have decided now that the law says to register your firearms that:

A: It does affect them

B:They all of a sudden certainly have time to stand up for their rights now, and

C:They must think that if they register their guns that someone will come for them once they know what they have and where they live. Why else would they refuse to register?

As far as the keyboard commando/chairborne ranger chest puffing and "If they want my guns they they have to pry them from my cold dead fingers" crap, as soon as they make examples of the first few resisters by severe means of punishment, a large majority of the internet bada$$e$ will bow down an turn in their guns. A bunch more will give up once they've had weapons pointed at them or shots fired at them (I've never been shot at, but I'm pretty confident that once bullets start flying in your direction "sh!t gets real" as they say). Once people start dying defending themselves and what used to be a God given right, many more will surrender.

So why do people want to wait until it turns into the "cold dead hands stage"? You don't wait until a plugged toilet is flowing water all over the floor to fix it.

There are an estimated 9 million firearms owners in the US. Do you know how many are in the NRA? 5 million. There was 4 million until the first big anti-gun push after Sandy Hook. NRA members like myself and others offered up sponsorships for those interested to get a life membership for 300.00 instead of the normal 1000.00 (even 2 or 3 members here signed up).

If the NRA had 7 million members do you think we would even be hearing much about gun control?

The time to stand up for your rights is before you lose them.I stand up for my rights by being a responsible gun owner.

"Keyboard commando", I like that. I'll try to use that next time someone is trying to shove their opinion down my throat, while disregarding the opinions of others, and acting as if they are the almighty authority on the subject.

Noone is coming to take my guns. I'm still not afraid, and I never will be.

Scootertrash

03-13-2014, 06:22 PM

I stand up for my rights by being a responsible gun owner.

I never said you didn't, but standing up for your rights requires more than just being a responsible gun owner

"Keyboard commando", I like that. I'll try to use that next time someone is trying to shove their opinion down my throat, while disregarding the opinions of others, and acting as if they are the almighty authority on the subject.

Glad you like it. I prefer chairborne ranger myself. That comment had nothing to do with your opinion and was a blanket statement, a generalization, not directed at you personally, and I stand by it. I apologize if you feel I was singling you out, that wasn't my intention. The majority of people who claim (on the internet or otherwise) that they will put up a bloody fight if the government came for their guns will fold like a cheap card table when sh!t gets real. Bank on it. You may not give up, even tho I haven't made that type of comment, I may not. But the majority will.

Noone is coming to take my guns. I'm still not afraid, and I never will be.

Never said anyone was. Never said you were, never said you will be

As far as instances where the government (doesn't matter if it's state or federal as far as I'm concerned) illegally confiscated guns without due process and without evidence of a crime, all you need to do is go back to New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. They confiscated guns, lied about having any when they had at least 1000 guns they confiscated. Then when they were FORCED to give them back, they made it extremely difficult for the owners to reclaim their rightful property buy using ridiculously strict proof of ownership requirements until a second lawsuit by the NRA forced them to relax the requirements. It took 2YEARS for them to return the firearms to their rightful owners. But hey, no one was coming for their guns either, right?

From WIKI:
About 3/4 of the way down the page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katr ina
Confiscation of civilian firearms

Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, and Deputy U.S. Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.[83][84]

Angered citizens, backed by the National Rifle Association and other organizations, filed protests over the constitutionality of such an order and the difficulty in tracking seizures, as paperwork was rarely filed during the searches. Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association, defended the right of affected citizens to retain firearms, saying that, "What we’ve seen in Louisiana - the breakdown of law and order in the aftermath of disaster - is exactly the kind of situation where the Second Amendment was intended to allow citizens to protect themselves." The searches received little news coverage, though reaction from groups such as the NRA, the Second Amendment Foundation, and Gun Owners of America was immediate and heated, and a lawsuit was filed September 22 by the NRA and SAF on behalf of two firearm owners whose firearms were seized. On September 23, the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana issued a restraining order to bar further firearms confiscations.[83]

After refusing to admit that it had any seized firearms, the city revealed in mid-March that it did have a cache of some 1000 firearms seized after the hurricane; this disclosure came after the NRA filed a motion in court to hold the city in contempt for failure to comply with the U.S. District Court's earlier order to return all seized firearms. On April 14, 2006, it was announced that the city will begin to return seized firearms, however as of early 2008, many firearms were still in police possession, and the matter was still in court.[83] The matter was finally settled in favor of the NRA in October 2008. Per the agreement, the city was required to relax the strict proof of ownership requirements previously used, and was to release firearms to their owners with an affidavit claiming ownership and a background check to verify that the owner is legally able to possess a firearm.[85]

Here's a video about the old lady referenced in the above article:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpHkR2KaTLw

Scootertrash

03-13-2014, 06:23 PM

Here's a video about the confiscation in general:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psy1TZkX9O4

DohcBikes

03-13-2014, 07:00 PM

So your example of guns being confiscated ends with the guns being returned.

And its no offense to you but gun legislation articles are as boring to me as Barnett's posts are to most people. Lol.

I do believe your original topic is a concern for people that don't understand how to quietly own weapons, or people that don't trust their physician, but a mass confiscation is not going to happen, and I won't change my opinion on that no matter how many times someone tries.

Personally, I haven't been to a doctor for about 13 years so it hasn't been an issue for me.

slashfan7964

03-13-2014, 08:08 PM

You bet. The will not treat you, at least here, until you provide a list of every gun you own along with their serial numbers. This is apparently to cover their butts if they give you something and go awol.

While I can understand this to an extent, what they are really doing is registering them with Albany here in NY, and quite frankly, I don't want s***head in office knowing what I do or do not have.

I'll die from illness before I tell them what I own. They are taking good people, law abiding citizens, and turning them into felon for something as simple as owning a magazine with 1 round larger capacity than mandated (among many other things).

Noone is coming to take your guns.

I would love to hear one single example of the u.s. government coming to someone's house to confiscate weapons when no crime has been committed.

Look at Louisiana. There's hundreds of videos on YouTubes of unannounced SWAT-type raids into peoples homes and taking their guns, at gunpoint, and violently beating them if they put up a fight. This includes elderly people. I'm not talking about a couple cops either. This is full on assault-type teams, barging into houses with battering rams and fully automatic M16's with bullet proof vests and whatnot. Some of these are seen above.

I agree with you that the best thing you can do is be a responsible gun owner, but there comes a point in time where you stand up and say enough is enough. If they think they can get away with taking one right from you, who's to say they won't start taking more? This country is becoming a dictatorship, and fast.

Mosh

03-13-2014, 08:13 PM

Anyone paying attention to the major government push to legalize marijuana?

Pop quiz hot shots...Why the sudden push for it. Please someone answer....

CRAZY70MAN

03-13-2014, 10:21 PM

Anyone paying attention to the major government push to legalize marijuana?

Pop quiz hot shots...Why the sudden push for it. Please someone answer....

To start another government sanctioned and taxed business just like alcohol and tobacco. A whole new generation of laws, taxes,healthcare problems, doctors, etc..... hmmmmm....sounds familiar?? And for those of you who think they are not coming for your guns......you will wake up one morning and find you so called constitution has been trumped bt NATO.................beleive it. Wake up. Join the NRA at least and voice your opinions. Just mailed my stuff to all of the politicians after I filled out the NRA survey....... Let them know where you stand....your vote does matter to them regardless of what you may here from the quitters. They get the guns and your freedoms.........you can throw in the towel....... New Yorkers once said "They will never get my guns".........you see how that worked out....:twisted: Give satan an inch.....and sooner or later he will be a ruler!

slashfan7964

03-13-2014, 10:30 PM

It will be one cold day in hell before they take my guns away from me.

If I have to go out all guns blazing, so be it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_aQgmFXRYI&feature=kp

As far as us saying we won't give our guns....85% of that was New York City. Sons of bitches down there.

bkm

03-14-2014, 02:48 AM

Anyone paying attention to the major government push to legalize marijuana?

Pop quiz hot shots...Why the sudden push for it. Please someone answer....

Because a doped up populus is a passive, non alert populus. Making it that much easier to strip their rights from under their noses without resistance.

CRAZY70MAN

03-14-2014, 04:46 AM

Because a doped up populus is a passive, non alert populus. Making it that much easier to strip their rights from under their noses without resistance.

you got it^^^^^^

Tomcall

03-14-2014, 05:03 AM

Was it Nancy Reagan or Betty Ford?? Anyway just say no.
I have to laugh. I am in the mental health field and live in AZ. Sometimes a case manager will ask from a managed care company, "are there guns in the home?"
I say "This is Arizona. Everyone has a gun in the home."

Mosh

03-14-2014, 07:15 AM

All good answers on the dope legalizing. You are almost there. But dig a little deeper and get a little more paranoid and realize 1000 minds with an agenda are smarter and more powerful than many people give them credit. I really have no problem either way with pot. But once again why does the govt want to regulate it and it's realation to gun control policy along with the new medical questions?

Dohc bikes. You really need to brush up on the govt sponsored home invasions. They dont do it in mass sweeps. Look up the Boston Bombing lockdowns. That alone was BS.

Scootertrash

03-14-2014, 08:22 AM

I have no problem with pot legalized or not. What you do in your spare time is nobody's business as long as you don't infringe on others rights.

The pot legalization crowd is trying their best to make legalization of pot a states issue. Problem is, the Feds and the pro-War on Drugs crowd don't see it that way, since any laws governing controlled substances-legal and illegal drugs-are Federal laws. At this time Federal law overrides state law. All of that will eventually be hashed out (see what I did there? ;)) by the Supreme Court of the US.

Whatever the result may be, I guarantee you that the Feds will use it deny gun purchases and eventually send the BATF to your door. How? Why?

Question e on the federal form 4473 or "Firearms Transaction Record Part I - Over-the-Counter", the form you fill out when you purchase a firearm, asks:

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

So, if you've been prescribed MM (Medicinal Marijuana) by your doctor because it's legal in your state and you answer the question honestly because you think since your doc prescribed it and it's legal in your state you are good to go, you will be denied the ability to purchase a firearm because Federal laws still says pot is illegal. So, while you may be a lawful user in your state, according to the feds you are an "unlawful user" and will be denied your purchase of a firearm. In addition, since you've just admitted to being an "unlawful user" of MM, they could use that info to investigate you further to see if you own previously purchased firearms. The BATF LOVES to confiscate guns. Do you buy a hunting license? ;)

Now, on the other hand, if you have been prescribed MM, but think what I described above will happen, or have heard that is what is happening, and you decide to lie and answer "no". You've just lied on a federal firearms purchase form and you are now a felon. How will they find out? With the new healthcare system ALL OF YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS WILL BE ACCESSIBLE BY THE GOVERNMENT. If you don't think the BATF will have a database of MM users you are sadly mistaken.

Lastly, the people pushing pot legalization are the same people who push gun control laws: Democrats/Liberals. Connect the dots.........

Dohc bikes. You really need to brush up on the govt sponsored home invasions. They dont do it in mass sweeps. Look up the Boston Bombing lockdowns.

He doesn't have time for that, it doesn't affect him (yet), and he's not scared. :rolleyes:

ETA: This too:
Because a doped up populus is a passive, non alert populus. Making it that much easier to strip their rights from under their noses without resistance.

Mosh

03-14-2014, 09:12 AM

^^^^Bingo^^^^

Tell him what he has won Bob...

I also read an interesting tidbit lately.

Disabled vets who are reliant upon govt subsidizing and a scrawny check can be appointed a federal fiduciary that can help them over see their limited finances. by the vet agreeing to do so, they are labeled "mentally incompetent" in which case is sent to the ATF and FBI and Gun rights are revoked.

Most would consider me as paranoid. But paranoid and alertness have two different meanings. The first and best rule of self defense is to be "alert".

RIDE-RED 250r

03-14-2014, 10:43 AM

Liberty for security??? Anyone????

Scootertrash

03-14-2014, 11:05 AM

Liberty for security??? Anyone????

No Thanks. I'll pass.

DohcBikes

03-14-2014, 11:19 AM

Liberty for security??? Anyone????
Nope, I'll pass too. Just because I differentiate between reasons for confiscation, it does not mean I agree with any of them.

I think there are a lot of assumptions being made here.

RIDE-RED 250r

03-14-2014, 11:49 AM

Nope, I'll pass too. Just because I differentiate between reasons for confiscation, it does not mean I agree with any of them.

I think there are a lot of assumptions being made here.

No Sir,

I do believe you value our rights, it is just my opinion you aren't looking at this whole situation with your eyes fully open.

From reading your posts on this topic, it is easy for one to surmise that at this point, you do not believe this can happen here. You have your opinion that differs from mine and that is OK.

But that doesn't mean I will stop trying ;)

DohcBikes

03-14-2014, 12:06 PM

I do not believe it will happen, because I live my life and handle my weapons in such a manner that will not provoke these actions, and I know a lot of other people that do the same.

I was raised with weapons, its a way of life for me, I have many times fed my family with my weapons, and I have also defended them with my weapons. No one is going to take mine.

I'm going to read this whole thread a couple times, and I'm going to do my best to absorb the information you guys have provided here. Obviously a hot button that scooter has pushed...lol.

I'm also glad to have disagreements of opinions that don't end abrasively. Thanks for the post Ride Red.

RIDE-RED 250r

03-14-2014, 12:49 PM

I am sure you do handle your weapons with due respect and prudence..

But may I suggest, simply because one individual exercises proper handling and storage of weapons, does not commit any crime whatsoever, it will buy no favor with the progressives and their agenda of control over the private citizen in every way imaginable. See, this is how they work, it is about the collective...or so they say to garner support for the unconstitutional power they take. The individual and his/her rights are of no consequence to these people..Make no mistake, the elite political ruling class will have their armed guards and many of them will themselves keep weapons.. (many currently do) Also, those close enough to the power or wealthy enough to buy favor will get their passes as well. But you, me, Scooter and all of the rest of us will not be permitted and you can almost name your reason. We are the nameless rabble, the expendable serfs. Our lives, rights and ambitions matter not to these people. We have a prime example right in NYC where you can see how only those in power and those close to that power are allowed the "privilege" (as they like to call it now) of keeping arms. Already in NYS, the county judges oversee pistol licensing and have the discretion of issuing permits or not, issuing permits with restrictions, or no restrictions. Many judges arbitrarily only issue "restricted" permits here in NY. If you want to apply for a full non-restricted permit, it is the burden of the permit holder to demonstrate to the judge a legitimate and compelling reason for him to lift those restrictions. This is not right to subject a citizen to this arbitrary restrictions,who has proven through the long and thorough application process for a NYS pistol license that he is a law abiding and stabil person.

I'm sorry for the long post, but I feel the need to point this out.. If you want to see where the progressives want to take this entire country, look at NYS, NYC, Cali, CT, and a few others. These are prime examples of what is to come and more if we don't stand up and do something about it. And it WILL get worse.. I can tell you from living it, I am a NY citizen and would love to tell you about the SAFE (we call it UN-safe) Act. And some of the big pushers of that legislation are on video record stating they wanted more, that they eventually want "full confiscation"........

One by one, they are taking their masks off. They are emboldened to allow their true colors and intentions to be known. It is up to us to pay attention. Unfortunately, we no longer live in a world where " I will be just fine because I do the right thing and have done nothing wrong" any more. The record of progressives is to keep changing the rules of the game until the people they are targeting ARE doing something wrong.. The NY SAFE ACT is a prime example of this.

All you have to do is look at history. Look at where we are and where is the most likely final destination from where we stand now.

Look up "Tytler Cycle" and tell me where you think we are as a nation in that cycle.....

CRAZY70MAN

03-14-2014, 04:54 PM

People handled their health insurance responsibly for years as well.............you see where that went:wondering. Good to see a nice healthy discussion, it's refreshing and keeps people in the mix of things I believe:beer

DohcBikes

03-14-2014, 05:01 PM

People handled their health insurance responsibly for years.
Did they really??? Are doctors people???

Good to see a nice healthy discussion, it's refreshing and keeps people in the mix of things I believe:beer

Most definitely!! Lots of smart people here.

bkm

03-14-2014, 07:04 PM

For the record, I'm all for the legalization. In almost ten years of law enforcement I've yet to deal with an angry pot head and for that reason solely, I'm all for it. Maybe instead of getting all tanked on alcohol more would sit back and toke on a fatty and stop acting like a$$holes.

trike savior

03-14-2014, 10:37 PM

2014 has been a big year for many of these issues here in Illinois. Concealed and carry, Medical Marijuana are new to the state as of January and Obama care for everyone. the only upside to living back with my parents after 8 years of freedom has been the cable TV and the fact that they are one of the few people left on the block that still get a newspaper everyday. I have been able to keep up on current events and everything that is going on from the serious side as well as my favorite news shows with Stewart and Colbert (comedy central).

KEEP IN MIND HERE BOYS, IN MANY OF THESE SITUATIONS, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT FORCABLY DISARMING THE PUBLIC, BUT TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO LEGALLY OWN (FOID CARD). Being caught with a firearm without a FOID card is a felony and causes you to loose your right for life. Some misdemeanors will also cause you to loose your right like various battery and domestic charges.

HOWEVER OUR GOVERNEMNT DID RECENTLY BUY 3 BULLETS FOR EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD IN AMERICA LAST YEAR

I understand what Mosh is saying since I read an article that now in the state of Illinois if you have the medical Marijuana card you cannot have a FOID card. The states have the right to do it first and I can promise you guys, if the a$$holes here have done it, more will soon follow. Illinois is the biggest bunch of pu$$y, right forfeiting bastards there are. I cannot buy BB's at the local Wal-Mart because the local municipalities have banned it. if i hear the argument one more time from an idiot here " why do you need guns when we have cops" I am going to freak out. it is because of these people things like the patriot act were passed and our rights are constantly trampled over without question. the hardest and most important argument i try to get across to these people if you gave up civilian rights to weapons that the bad guys would still have them. growing up the way i did, i know the places of Chicago where it is easier to get an illegal weapon than get one legally.

This medical marijuana and no FOID card is a big area of concern for me personally, being a smoker, because now I must choose between my love of firearms and my ability to use a natural drug for my pain. not the 90 pill bottles of liver killing vicodin they have been shoving down my throat since I was 14. all I have ever wanted was equality to the non smokers and to not have to worry when i am pulled over what a cop may say he thinks he smells. and now things are so close and they are going to pull this. I never have felt like a "normal" person for the simple fact that I have always been a law breaker since I can remember and they seem to do everything they can to keep it that way.

Now somehow taking a medicine for a physical problem is going to make me a liability. If anything, it makes it a greater chance i will be sitting on the couch eating Cheetos instead of going to the gun range on my day off. and yet there is nothing against being intoxicated and using a weapon, which i have seen lead to alot dumber trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro.

TAKE IT FROM A GUY WHO LIVES IN A STATE THAT DOES NOT ALLOW AUTOMATIC WEAPON OWNERSHIP BY CIVILLIANS, THE CRACK DOWN HAS ALREADY BEGUN. when researching the ar-15 lower you guys were talking about i found out how easy it is to own an automatic weapon if your state allows. the number of states that do not allow is supervising low but will be growing. Wikipedia "gun ownership by state" and you will see from the charts of each state their restrictions on ownership. restriction on magazine sizes seem to be the second step after outlawing automatic weapon ownership.

i posted this on the ar15 lower discussion because the guy explains the situation the best. Go to 17:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJzwyIo4Sx8 he says it has started as well with the argument of why do you need 10+ rounds to go hunting. that should not matter and if they win that argument i don't think it will stop. maybe we need to just get honest about the fact these weapons are strictly peace of mind every day that when the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro hits the fan i can defend myself better than most. AND HOW CAN YOU PUT A PRICE ON PEACE OF MIND. and people hear you say that then they look at you like you are crazy when in reality they are. We have all seen what happens during natural disasters and other breakdowns of the public order. The Rodney king riots, Katrina and countless others, take your pick. the thing is for 95% of us it is strictly self protection from the advancements of others but it is the 5% that have ruined it. I am sure everyone saw the footage of that bank robbery in cali several years ago with 2 guys in full armor and AR'S firing in the streets.

I care deeply about my right to own our firearms and am seriously worried how long it will continue with the leadership we have in the state and federal governments. It is amendment #2 folks. I am a huge history buff and our founding fathers could have put it farther down the list but they did not. they says a whole bunch in itself. I personally think our founding fathers would be sick at what our country has become after everything they fought for. and i am not gay bashing with that statement, if anything they would probably be proud we lead the world in an area of human rights. but i think they would cry at the rights we have given up and signed away.

trike savior

03-14-2014, 11:09 PM

and for all you Obama hating guys i wish you would just stop. i am so sick of hearing how terrible Obama care is and how horrible of a president he is. i don't like the guy much but do you really think ROMNEY would have been better? South Park park explained it best when the boys had to pick a new school mascot, a deuche or a turd sandwich.

In my opinion Obama care is working great and has made good sense from the beginning. i have watched my uncle barely get by for years, paying ridiculous amounts to his health insurance company because he was so high risk and always having to use it. He finally has a plan that is reasonable. the only way to make this happen was for everyone to get insurance so the healthy pay for the sick. that was the core idea for Obama care and it is working. all the media talk about death panels and everything else was propaganda and trying to instill fear in the public.

Unlike some i was able to keep my health insurance plan i had before and i do sympathize with those that could not and had to shell out extra cash in these hard times. however if that puts us on the right track to get our healthcare system under control and feasible for everyone at all stages of their life, it is a good thing and i would have paid my part if asked.

Now some may say oh what about the website issues, couldn't get covered if we wanted to. Jon Stewart was talking about this on the show a few weeks ago with someone. the company that did Obamas fundraising campaign for his last reelection, the one throwing pop ups at you everywhere you went online, they looked into applying for the job and could not figure out how to. If that does not say something as to how messed up and legal mumbo jumbo filled our government is, i don't know what would. the company that ran one of the biggest internet ad campaigns in history cant figure out how to apply. which also begs the next question of after the company that got the job, paid the lawyers to get them the job, how much was left to spend on the job itself?

all presidents are under a microscope but it seems like he gets it worse or maybe the news agencies are just that ridiculous these days. stewart showed some recent clips of the news anchors calling him too much of a hard @$$ for something i cant remember and how bad it was and then the same people calling him a wu$$ for the handling of the Crimea situation.

Just sick of it. Its done, get on board. he is out soon and you can complain about the next one.

Mosh

03-15-2014, 09:55 AM

Obamacare was the biggest screw up in our history.
I bet 60% of carreer working folks are right in the same wage bracket.
I am struggling with the concept a family of 4 making 40k a year paying 800 per month on top of a 5k deductible being able to pay for that crap. That is over 1/3 of their monthly income when they were paying maybe 500$ per month with a 1000$ deductible.

It is a shift in funds that hurts the populace of income generators in this country already living check to check before obamacare. So there becomes another factor to the gun control equation. Limit gun ownership? Make the people unable to spend one extra dime for anything other than health care , housing , and energy useage. Don't forget obama has raised all the energy rates 18-30%.
He is a thug.

If they really wanted wanted to help the people with health care , they could have regulated the insurance companies and hospital fees and forced people to cover everybody regardless of condition.
It was all a fricken lie , facade , slide of hand...But trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro it looks like many people are into that sorth of thing now.

Scootertrash

03-15-2014, 10:33 AM

So your example of guns being confiscated ends with the guns being returned.

So that makes it OK to trample peoples constitutional rights, confiscate their personal property without due process or or proof of laws being broken? Then set up ridiculous requirements for proof of ownership to get your illegally confiscated firearms back (they wanted valid proof of ownership in the form of a receipt for purchase or transfer. Seriously? Where the hell are people going to get that when all of their belongings have been washed away in a hurricane? http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/forum/smileyvault-wtf.gif (http://www.smileyvault.com/)

Then it takes 2 years of legal action by the NRA, SAF, and GOA so people can get their legally owned, illegally confiscated property back?

And its no offense to you but gun legislation articles are as boring to me as Barnett's posts are to most people. Lol.

I do believe your original topic is a concern for people that don't understand how to quietly own weapons, or people that don't trust their physician

How exactly do you "quietly" own firearms? :wondering
People fill out a federal form and go thru an FBI background check
Peoples family, friends, coworkers and neighbors (including all of the previous that may not necessarily like them) know they own them thru conversation, hunting and target shooting. Even if if your neighbors don't know you, if you shoot on your own property they know you have them because, well, guns are noisy when you shoot them. ;)
People come on public forums and talk about owning guns and how they will fight to the death to prevent them from being taken from them.

It's not about "trusting" your doctor. As I said before, your doctor will simply be "doing his job" collecting the information for your government mandated (required) healthcare, so he gets his money.

but a mass confiscation is not going to happen
Even when I point out a well documented incident

How do you define "mass confiscation"? Township? City? State? or do we just wait until it goes National?

and I won't change my opinion on that no matter how many times someone tries.

But you'll find some way to justify it when it happens like you did the Katrina related example I posted.

Personally, I haven't been to a doctor for about 13 years so it hasn't been an issue for me.

You'll end up at one eventually, whether it's lack of preventative care or an accident/injury.

Scootertrash

03-15-2014, 11:32 AM

To address some of the above,,,,,,,,

[QUOTE=DohcBikes;1296059]Yep you guessed it, I smoke, a lot. Interesting how someone could come to that conclusion without me ever having mentioned it here before, other than in "private" messages with other members.........

It's amazing what some people will admit to on a public forum and in PMs, especially after all of the crap that is going down with the NSA. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

The Boston lock downs were an emergency response to a terrorist threat, again, no comparison here.

One wounded punk trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro b!tch is a terrorist threat? Talk about the pussification of America.

The FBI was informed well in advance of the attacks about the main guy who had gone to the middle east to attend one of those terrorist training camps, and they failed to do their job to monitor his activity. If they had done their job, the attack never would have happened. But it's OK to trample peoples constitutional rights because the government didn't do their job in the first place.

I don't have to buy a hunting licence anymore, because as an AVID hunter and gun owner, I felt it was my responsibility to the Game and parks commission to pledge my support by purchasing a LIFETIME hunting permit and a LIFETIME habitat stamp, you got one??????
*sigh* My comment about hunting licenses has nothing to do with asking you how you support gun rights or ownership, it has to do with the governments ability to tie your medical history to your firearms related activities. Government accessible medical records, drivers license,SS#, hunting license purchased by showing your drivers license to confirm identity, mood altering medication prescribed by doctors, etc.

If you admit on your 4473 that you smoke pot you can't buy a firearm. That's mild compared to some of the meds doctors can prescribe.

As far as answering your question about hunting licenses, no I don't have a lifetime hunting permit and a lifetime habitat stamp for Arizona. But I started hunting in Minnesota when I was 12 and purchase my licenses on a yearly basis dependent on what kind of hunting I plan on doing each year, so, yes I support my local hunting and habitat management agencies.

I'm a Lifetime member of the NRA, are you?
Supporting your local hunting and habitat management agencies is fine, but it does nothing for gun rights and the support of the Second Amendment:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

See anything about hunting in there?

Hunting rights will fall to the wayside as a result of gun control, not vice versa. Why do you think PETA and other animal rights groups support gun control? Control and/or eliminate guns, less cute furry little animals get hunted. ;) It's a means to an end and that's how Progressives/Liberals work. They don't care whose rights they violate, as long as they get what they want and THEIR rights don't get violated.

DohcBikes

03-15-2014, 12:18 PM

Well it was pretty much implied (if one does not fail to read between the lines, sometimes perhaps intentionally) so I figure instead of beating around the bush and being accused of hiding my identity or personal information for any reason other than security (which seems to be a trend here) I'd just tell you.

Its just another part of NOT BEING AFRAID of the government as far as I'm concerned.

Personally I could not care less what someone sees me type on the internet. I'd gladly post my social security number here if it wasn't completely unnecessary to prove my point.

I'll let y'all speculate as to whether I'm a member of the NRA.

DohcBikes

03-15-2014, 12:23 PM

I buy guns all the time with no paperwork.What's a 4473? I'm not being facetious, I really don't know. I could have looked it up, but I figured hey I have the experts right here, why don't I just ask them.

Have you guys ever been to Arizona? I can ride my motorcycle with no helmet and a pistol on my hip right next to a cop and not get a second glance. I regularly stand in line at the bank next to people with pistols on their hips. That one was weird to get used to.

Obviously your views on guns and legislature will be different.

It seems maybe you think I'm too dim to comprehend what you are saying? I realize you were making the connection between the hunting licence and the giving of information. That's why I made it clear that I don't have to give that info every year. If they use the info I gave to get MY hunting licence, that will be searching for guns three states away. And for your info, I got my lifetime permit before I got my drivers liscence.

Quietly owning guns? Easy.

And there are many "quiet" guns in the desert.

But here in town they sure are loud, I hear about 10-20 gunshots per night on average.

A question for ya, how many of the people in this thread have been imprisoned for an extended length of time? Maybe that's another reason I'm not afraid of what they can do to me.

I have no children and never will,(which is my personal contribution to solving EVERY PROBLEM WE HAVE) does that factor in here? I think it might automatically make a difference of opinion with someone that does, simply because I only have to be concerned with myself if I get in trouble.

RIDE-RED 250r

03-15-2014, 12:28 PM

I buy guns all the time with no paperwork.

Have you guys ever been to Arizona? I can ride my motorcycle with no helmet and a pistol on my hip right next to a cop and not get a second glance. I regularly stand in line at the bank next to people with pistols on their hips. That one was weird to get used to.

Obviously your views on guns and legislature will be different.

Oh to someday get to the promised land! I wish my state had HALF that tolerance for private citizens when it comes to firearms.....

DohcBikes

03-15-2014, 01:11 PM

Oh to someday get to the promised land! I wish my state had HALF that tolerance for private citizens when it comes to firearms.....

Honestly I thought Nebraska was pretty lenient until I got here. It seriously still lives up to the name "Wild West". What few laws there are here are regularly ignored.

But I'll say this, if you DO screw up here, the cops will draw on you in a second, among other things.

I DIGRESS, Now there's a story I won't tell on the internet....

RIDE-RED 250r

03-15-2014, 01:30 PM

Honestly I thought Nebraska was pretty lenient until I got here. It seriously still lives up to the name "Wild West". What few laws there are here are regularly ignored.

But I'll say this, if you DO screw up here, the cops will draw on you in a second, among other things.

I DIGRESS, Now there's a story I won't tell on the internet....

As they should... Because with rights comes responsibility.

Scootertrash

03-15-2014, 01:33 PM

If you are buying your guns face to face in private purchases then no, you wouldn't know what a 4473 is, and more power to ya. The more guns you can purchase without a paper trail the better. A lot of people up here have been convinced by anti gunners that if you sell guns face to face you are selling your guns to gangbangers and murderers, so there seem to be less and less face to face sales in our state as time goes on, except for the more hardcore progunners

Open carry and riding motorcycles without a helmet (and both at the same time ;)) are legal here in MN. Although open carry is not as prevalent as in AZ.

Did plenty of stupid sh!t when I was younger and landed in jail a couple of times, but never been in prison, let alone for an extended time. Never had any desire to do the kind of stuff that lands you in prison. I value my freedom too much.

You are correct, not having kids does and will make a big difference if the S ever HTF.

Married but no kids, wife couldn't have them otherwise we'd probably have a couple. Even if I have kids, it wouldn't change how I would defend my Rights and Freedoms. Trying to punish you, me, Ride Red, and other responsible gun owners for the crimes committed by criminals is BS. If I'm going to be a criminal, it'll be my choice, not a bunch of candy trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro politicians.

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything", "Better to die on your feet than live on your knees" etc, etc.

You and I are more than likely on the same page more than it appears.

DohcBikes

03-15-2014, 03:24 PM

For some reason it seems like we just had a discussion about guns where no one completely agreed with each other, and no one got angry or started hurling insults. :wondering

I'm hoping that's what just happened, I just dont remember the last time I saw it. :crazy:

Backing verrryyy slowwwly out of the room.........:lol:

Scootertrash

03-15-2014, 03:57 PM

Lol
Even if we don't see eye to eye completely, I'm more than happy to have you on my side ;)

If you're ever up this way, look me up and I'll buy ya a beer or two if you're so inclined, or a soda.

300rman

03-15-2014, 06:55 PM

They don't have the man power to take our guns. There's too many of us with the "from my cold dead hands mentality".

As far as "people like me" there are probably not too many since my views on politics and guns are not educated, and often sound contradictory. I'm very happy not many are like me.

Its not something I'm willing to argue about...... I'm too busy getting ready to go shoot my Ak-47 and my SKS. I'll deal with it when they show up asking for em I guess.

No. too many people will see the few "extremists" get lit up, and plastered all over the news for months, the rest will fall into place and simply turn over.....

They arent going to turn up while you are home.....they will raid you while you are at work. Simple as that!

DohcBikes

03-15-2014, 10:58 PM

I work at home, haha gotcha there bro.:lol::beer

Chopsaw

03-16-2014, 01:40 AM

I have a lot of guns . Most are world war 2 collection . I have thousands of rounds to services all of them . M1 Garand , M1 Carbine , K98 Mauser , Springfield 03a3, Lee Enfield , Mosien Nagant carbine , plus a lot of hand guns and modern assault rifles . I'm not worried at all . My guns are safe with me . They know I have them , I'm not worried about it .

DohcBikes

03-16-2014, 11:15 AM

111 degrees??? Thats a chilly day in the summer lol... The reported temps hit 120 regularly. My infared thermometer usually reads about 170 degress on the asphalt on the hottest days.

Id say at head level walking its around 130-140 degrees on the hot days.

I am not about to comment on Joe Arpaio in this thread :lol::lol::lol::lol:

The bangers here are rampant, aint nobody stopping them now. When i take my dog to the park in the morning i always try to clean all the trash because it shares a fence with a grade school, and the kids walk through the park by the dozens before and after school. Ive thrown away more bags and crack pipes and other paraphanalia than i can begin to count, and the other day i had the pleasure of going twice.

There was a bag on one of the benches with a half filled needle. As i mentioned before, im not going bring the police to where i am for any reason if i can help it, and im also not going to leave this dirty needle laying on the park bench for a kid to grab, so i went home and got some ziplocks to put over my hand and i went back and dropped it in a pop can, crushed it, put the can in the bags and buried it at the bottom of the fullest trash can.

i wish we could do more about the real drugs, the ones that ruin your life and make you insensitive to others. My suggestions on this matter would be extreme and unacceptable, so i dont know.