my nieghbors atc 110 with yz125 piston . [Archive]

effort=results

05-31-2014, 08:46 PM

so i dont wanna break any rules so please visit my youtube channel. but woowwww this thing screams. he has a rocky cam , ported head, what we both guess to be a bissane pipe , oversized sprocket , and a wiseco yz 125 piston in it . George just got it out for the first time and i ran out to see him break it in . and he put on one hell of a show. not bad for a 56 yr old guy. George use to race 90's and 110's on flat tracks back in the day. so please check it out . im wont put a direct link to it cause he has no helmet . but heres the link to my page.Georges modded atc 110. long live the atc's!
FUN POLICE ENGAGE! FUN HAS BEEN ELIMINATED, your link has that video front and center. Tell them how to find you on youtube but don't post links.

El Camexican

05-31-2014, 09:11 PM

Eliminating the oiling rings and valve reliefs by switching over to a 2 stroke piston sounds like a bad idea.

RIDE-RED 250r

05-31-2014, 09:50 PM

2-stroke piston=2-stroke smoke! LOL! :beer

But it DOES run like mad....really seems to crank some R's... Interesting to say the least. :)

Did OEM ATC110 pipes have a heat shield on them?? Just wondering because you say George's has a Bassani pipe, and my 110 has a pipe that looks just like it... But I still have an OEM silencer...

350for350

05-31-2014, 11:48 PM

All I can say is WOW!!! That thing seems to hold up amazingly well. He doesn't even let off the throttle to shift and it takes it. Didn't know a 110 could rev that high.

C.J

06-01-2014, 12:04 AM

Still waiting to hear back that part number ;) lol

His 110 does rev like mad man. I wonder what the c:r is on it with it revving that much with a stock carb. He's getting a lot of grunt with a larger rear sprocket too. I dig it a lot and it definitely motivated me to work on mine some more lol

90guy

06-01-2014, 12:25 AM

Lordy Lordy that thing revs holy! That is cool that for sure!

Afrothunderkat

06-01-2014, 02:40 AM

How does that even work?

No oil ring?

Post more details!

DohcBikes

06-01-2014, 08:07 AM

How does that even work?
Pretty good for a limited time.

I'm sorry to be represent the fun police on this one, but doing that kind of goof riding he should be wearing a helmet.

Changing from one terrain to the next while shifting through a burnout is all good till theres a 60 year old with a cracked skull. He had trouble controlling it more than once.

jakep53

06-01-2014, 08:08 AM

that thing is a monster more details PLEASE......

effort=results

06-01-2014, 11:00 AM

i still have yet to get an exact part number from him.he likes having his secrets. see he works at a yamaha dealership so it took him some time and measuring to find a piston that would not slap valves or smash into the crank. i did see it come out of a wiseco box so ill see if its still sittin in his shop and snag some numbers . ya the pipe he has has no identification and he said it came off one of his hoards. he says it also had a removable silencer that came from it. the local fair grounds has atv flat track races but wont let him run.so maybe me and him just gona have to race each other. ill get more details as i can . like i said he raced 110's in his younger days and when i moved in it got him to break out his goodies again. he doesnt have internet so ill show him this on my phone and see if he will cough up what piston he used.

"EDIT" found out that it was for a "ttr 125 yamaha, had to pry that out of him , so hope this helps anyone makin big bore 110's!

C.J

06-01-2014, 01:01 PM

Nice!! Show him some of the 90's lurking around here and maybe he'll be more willing to share with us,, even if in private :D

dream3wheeler

06-01-2014, 01:32 PM

I bet with a mixture of the engine oil lubing the the crank case and splashing the around plus a good crosshatching on the cylinder wall would lube it all up nicely, with a little more help by adding a little 2 stroke oil to the gas I don't see why it wouldn't work. That's a pretty cool build. it'd be fun to build one to race around with.

El Camexican

06-01-2014, 01:41 PM

i still have yet to get an exact part number from him.he likes having his secrets. see he works at a yamaha dealership so it took him some time and measuring to find a piston that would not slap valves or smash into the crank. i did see it come out of a wiseco box so ill see if its still sittin in his shop and snag some numbers . ya the pipe he has has no identification and he said it came off one of his hoards. he says it also had a removable silencer that came from it. the local fair grounds has atv flat track races but wont let him run.so maybe me and him just gona have to race each other. ill get more details as i can . like i said he raced 110's in his younger days and when i moved in it got him to break out his goodies again. he doesnt have internet so ill show him this on my phone and see if he will cough up what piston he used.

I think he’s BSing with you with regards to the piston being out of a YZ125. It makes no sense whatsoever to do something like that and it sure isn’t responsible for any power gains. You say he likes his secrets, I say he likes messing with people.

DohcBikes

06-01-2014, 02:31 PM

Well El, atc110 pistons ARE dome tops, so i think the valve clearance might be there. As another interesting note, both pistons have a 15mm wrist pin. A yz125 piston would require a 2mm overbore, 110 experts can weigh in on that possibility.... Judging by pictures of both pistons side by side it looks like he did in fact do some intense measuring and found a piston that would work. WHY it works is what i'm not getting...

The yz125 piston would only add 8cc, making it a 113cc engine.

I dont see how it would help power THAT much unless the piston is significantly lighter (which would explain the R's) but it doesnt seem that a yz piston would be lighter, or the compression ratio was increased. Theres no doubt in my mind that engine is a short-termer. If you think theres a way to make it work long term dream3wheeler then you probably dont know much about four strokes...but then again, the highest powered race engines never last long.

One other possibility i just thought of is that possibly yz dome could actually be lower, allowing for an even bigger cam that likes to run best at high revs....you would think if that was the goal he'd just fly cut the reliefs in a 110 piston to retain CR. I dont know, just throwing stuff out there on that one lol...

I would be interested in the measured rod length on that engine after it finally rips the cylinder or piston apart.

So what RPM do ya'll think he's hitting? With a no rev CDI I'll rev way above 9000rpm on my 200x engines. How do I know? Get over it :D I just do. I dont think he could be revving it much higher than that. He also must have a huge rear gear because it doesn't lug at all when he shifts it just stays in the revs. The trans is probably not happy lol....

Billy Golightly

06-01-2014, 03:48 PM

I'm not saying its impossible - but its impractical. Skirt height alone would have to be significantly changed or the first time the piston comes down to BDC it'd wack off probably 1/2inch of the YZ's piston skit thats made intentionally long to keep the exhaust port covered...

RIDE-RED 250r

06-01-2014, 04:41 PM

All I know is George's 110 revs out much higher than my 110! LOL! :D

But I think DOHC is likely correct about it being a "short timer".....

effort=results

06-01-2014, 04:45 PM

ok found out today that the piston was made for a "ttr yamaha 125" . from wiseco.

C.J

06-01-2014, 07:03 PM

The TTR is a 4-stroke. Means it's got an oil scraper ring. The only thing the bottom ring is there for on a 4-stroke is to keep oil from being burnt and fouling the plug. Actually would help a high revving engine to burn some oil. Your top ring(s) are just for compression. So no,, it wouldn't hurt the longevity of the engine to run a 2 stroke piston, you'd just burn oil. And if you're running a low compression engine you'll need a big cam with short duration to run high revs. 110's don't mind being shifted under power so long as the clutch is in good shape, the larger rear sprocket helps with taking some load off it though. Stock the gearing is 14/52 if I remember right (I haven't messed with a stock front sprocket in a while)? I know I dropped 3 teeth in the rear from stock to a 49 rear and it's still pretty low geared.

I say George builds HIS engines how HE wants and runs them as long as they will run and I'm sure he will have a grin no matter what.

Thanks for sharing with us E/R and George!

DohcBikes

06-01-2014, 07:41 PM

So no,, it wouldn't hurt the longevity of the engine to run a 2 stroke piston,

Yes it will.

effort=results

06-01-2014, 08:53 PM

just ben

06-01-2014, 08:59 PM

The oil ring holds oil to lubricate the cylinder Its not just to keep oil from the compression rings. The title did say it was a break in video. If George assembles a 4 poke like I do, they will smoke for a while from the assembly lube.

DohcBikes

06-01-2014, 09:09 PM

well i was wrong anyhow. its a ttr piston 4 stroke. but for us guys goin big bore this will be a fresh supply for the 110's. thanks to george for figuring it out. also george is 56 so he wont be riding every weekend . but when he does .......it will get down. plus with his hoard,jugs are easy to come by.
Ya thats awesome!! So does he just bore it out 2 mm or does he sleeve it? I dont know anything about 110's but this stuff always interests me. Has he cc'd the setup to see what kind of CR he's getting? What's the advertised CR of the piston he got? Is it the 11:1 piston? Race gas?(duh:rolleyes:) Any more questions he'd like to answer lol....

effort=results

06-01-2014, 09:52 PM

hahahah ya i had to shoehorn what piston he used out of em. he did temperture cycle the motor for a while and whet u see is the first ride around the yard. i do know he didnt sleeve it and just bored it out. hes the lead mechanic at treaders tnt motorcycle shop in quincy il .so u may call and see if u can get more from him. he knows what hes doin and is always workin on mowers and wheelers at his shop at home. so he knows what hes doin. heck the lil bit of smoke could be old oil deposits in the muffler. my guess on what he used is this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-08-Yamaha-TTR125-11-1-WISECO-STD-PISTON-4752M05400-/330618660761

DohcBikes

06-01-2014, 10:07 PM

Just had a thought, they make that piston up to 1mm oversize too....55mm bore possible on a 110? That would make it a 117cc.

C.J

06-02-2014, 12:43 AM

Seeing as though a 110 is a lay down engine that gets plenty of oil to the crank shaft area, revving it THAT MICH is GOING TO get oil to the sleeve and in turn will oil between the piston and sleeve. Plus if you drill oiling holes in the piston (if it doesn't have it already) then it will get plenty of oil to the skirt.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/02/uhesejeh.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/02/jamu5ube.jpg

And don't say you can't drill oiling holes in 2-stroke pistons because we do it on our fullbore/big bore LT's to help keep the exhaust bridge cool
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/02/u5yqaga3.jpg

C.J

06-02-2014, 12:48 AM

BUT George's bike has a TTR225 piston http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/02/2y9e4eda.jpg which is a flat top but it doesn't have oil holes in it. I say a 2-stroke piston can be ran in a 4-stroke engine fine, it's just going to smoke and you'll need to add oil holes to it. (Damn how many times am I going to say oil holes) But until we can test that, we are just going to have to call this an impasse, my trike brothers. :)

So we wait

C.J

06-02-2014, 01:02 AM

DohcBikes

06-02-2014, 01:10 AM

Ok,,, stock 90/110 piston. ~28mm from center of wrist pin to top of dome, BAPP 12:1 piston 30mm, Rocky 12:1 30mm. 90 piston is 14mm wrist pin, 110 is 15mm wrist pin. So you take and measure the TTR225 piston center of wrist pin to top of the dome, compare to those measurements mentioned before, and make a little equation thing with Y over X = Y2 over X2 and do some multiplying, divide,,, boom boom bam there's your compression ratio.

Im willing to put money on George's bike having a ported head at the very least. Maybe a bigger carb or the stock carb opened up some. At the very least.No, because as you mentioned, the tt-r piston is a flattop. Not to mention that stated CR and measured CR are not always the same. My question was from one engine builder to another. I'd like to know if he cc'd it to find out the true CR.

Your 2 stroke piston theory is bunk, brother. Theres absolutely no reason to use one, and it would not last as long, period.

C.J

06-02-2014, 01:16 AM

It'll get you in the ball park,, but yes cc'ing it is the proper way to find actual CR

And why is it bunk? Just because you don't agree with it and it's different?

I KNOW 90/110's. Maybe not as well as Pat, or Mike, or 90Guy, or anyone else who's been into the 90's for forever and a day. But I say it could be done. Maybe not with a YZ125 piston. But I say it could be done. And if you ask any of the guys who HAVE been around the 90/110's, they will tell you a built engine won't last long being ran hard anyway. ( I just realized I looked up a piston for a TTR225 not 125 give me a second to fix that)

DohcBikes

06-02-2014, 01:21 AM

Lets forget that it will not last as long as a four stroke piston, because that's already been explained clearly(by members here and by the industry NOT doing it).

Tell me WHY you would do it.

2 stroke or 4, a piston is just a damn slug thats intended to create pressure in a cylinder. 4 stroke pistons are built the way they are for a reason. That reason is because if they were built like 2 stroke pistons, the engine would not last as long.:D

C.J

06-02-2014, 01:22 AM

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/02/ehusazyj.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/02/eqynebut.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/02/a7epypeg.jpg

120.76 through wossner for a 55mm piston. 4.1cc dome. If anyone's interested I could cc the domes of my two 54mm piston that are supposed to be 12:1 pistons to see what the difference is.

C.J

06-02-2014, 01:28 AM

Lets forget that it will not last as long as a four stroke piston, because that's already been explained clearly(by members here and by the industry NOT doing it).

Tell me WHY you would do it.

Well at this point it's just to prove that it COULD be done. I was told you can't put Quadzilla a-arms on an LT250R without modifying the frame. And I did that. We were told that 3-wheelers would never make a comeback and that there would never be a new three-wheeler built again. And guess what, that was wrong as well. Why NOT at least try it? Why NOT at least be able to sit back and say 'So it won't work. Well shoot, I learned something today. Guess it's been a bad day' no we thrive off of learning why stuff does or does not work. That's something that everyone in the trike community has been through AT LEAST once. So why NOT! If I waste a cylinder/crank OH WELL,, I literally have 30+ parts engines. So WHY NOT. I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, but if someone told you you couldn't put an 81 CR250 mill into an 85 ATC-R chassis, you'd probably sure as trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro tell them IT CAN be done and at some point you'd be like eff you I'm gunna freakin do it!!! Lol. I mean c'mon. Why not?

And DAMN, your signature says it for me!! I WILL TRY to find a 2-stroke piston that will fit a 90/110 and we WILL see if it will work. And I WILL run the dog mess out of it if it does.

DohcBikes

06-02-2014, 01:31 AM

Yes you've surely got me there, but what we are discussing has been tried. Why do you think im being so flippant about it. Its unneccessary and it doesn't work as well.

GIT ER DUN

:beer

P.S. I NEVER said it couldnt be done, in fact, i was the first to explain why it COULD. It just wont last as long and its a total waste of time and money for no gain.

jmax857

06-02-2014, 08:17 PM

Well at this point it's just to prove that it COULD be done. I was told you can't put Quadzilla a-arms on an LT250R without modifying the frame. And I did that. We were told that 3-wheelers would never make a comeback and that thernever be a new three-wheeler built again. And guess what, that was wrong as well. Why NOT at least try it? Why NOT at least be able to sit back and say 'So it won't work. Well shoot, I learned something today. Guess it's been a bad day' no we thrive off of learning why stuff does or does not work. That's something that everyone in the trike community has been through AT LEAST once. So why NOT! If I waste a cylinder/crank OH WELL,, I literally have 30+ parts engines. So WHY NOT. I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, but if someone told you you couldn't put an 81 CR250 mill into an 85 ATC-R chassis, you'd probably sure as trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro tell them IT CAN be done and at some point you'd be like eff you I'm gunna freakin do it!!! Lol. I mean c'mon. Why not?

And DAMN, your signature says it for me!! I WILL TRY to find a 2-stroke piston that will fit a 90/110 and we WILL see if it will work. And I WILL run the dog mess out of it if it does.

I have built engines that I didn't put the oil ring on. It works, smokes a little. If the 2 stroke piston is the same bore and pin to top piston clearance is the same or doesnt smack the theres no reason it would not work. A 4 stroke piston with no oil ring , is basically the same thing.