Another Bowtie project I've been working on....

[DohcBikes]

My roommate Nate has an 87 V20. He wants his equipment to be familiar and serviceable in the field by himself. He wanted to get rid of the fuel injection. All arguments aside, I obliged.

The block is a reman with 2000 miles on it. Went with a Performer intake and a 1406. He jumped the gun and ordered an intake before i got a chance to mention the center bolt issue and the correct pn..., so i had to oval and chamfer them. No biggie.

Dual 12" electric fans. Brand new distributor, rotor, cap, wires, high power coil, new alternator, new water pump, electric fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, damper, and a small chrome dress up kit. Theres more I'm forgetting. We also have an electric water pump to try once she is tuned, but I dont know if it will keep it cool in traffic yet so he's gonna put some miles on it before we give it a shot.

Still needs headers, waiting for a good deal to show up.

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Nate has started this custom gauge panel, installed new insulation and carpet, a new old school seat cover, the grenade transcase shifter knob, a new dash panel, and more. Everything runs on toggles, race car style.

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He's ready to drive this thing. Its off to the hot rod tuner today, been a long time since i've tuned an edelbrock on a small block, and with my schedule right now I don't wanna rush it. So I'm handing it off to Widow Industries for the fine tuning. It runs good now, but I want Nate to get the max potential from this combo.


More details and descriptions later, there are some interesting mods on this rig.

[jb2wheels]

What's a V20?

Or was that a C20 typo? Not being a smarta$$ - I might be learning something.

Looks awesome!

Seems a shame and expensive to swap out TBI (I assume) for a carb but we all got our own things.

[DohcBikes]

No typo, and if it WERE a typo, it would be a K20 because its 4x4. The ONLY year that is designated with a V is 87. Not yet the "2500" series, but the first year of fuel injection.

The previous owner had the TBI ALL messed up, and Nate didn't want it, so i took it off. Nuff said, I'm not going to defend either setup. To each his own.

Pics of my buddy Febuary's truck hooked up to pull it. We just got back from Widow industries.

Febs GMC is a sweet truck as well.

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Sgt. Olsen and Sgt. Febuary with their rigs

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[DohcBikes]

And here is a short video showcasing some of Widow's work....



To put it lightly, I am not known for my humble nature, but I have no problem passing a project to this guy for tuning.





http://vimeo.com/51288002

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I have that same carb and intake on my '78 K-10. I'm also running some sort of "mild" cam (however I have not pulled it to confirm) along with full length headers and true duals... It runs pretty good with the old Muncie 4spd behind it. It's no streak of lightnin' (as the Man in Black would say) but she can get out of her own way when she needs too...

[DohcBikes]

Well, unfortunately the Edelbrock carb was junk straight out of the box. Widow rebuilt it a couple times, tried several settings, and it kept leaking fuel and starving the engine. I've heard many negative reviews about the 1406, but I have in the past purchased one on 2 separate occasions for my own trucks, and they performed flawlessly. Naturally I kept defending them because they cost 1/2 what a Holley costs. I'll not buy or recommend another Edelbrock carb after this.

Makes me feel better though, because normally when I assemble things they work the first time. I was blaming my lack of experience with return style fuel pressure regulators and electric fuel pumps, when it was the carb that was faulty. I'll probably try the Summit carbs next time I work on a small block.

Widow has a Holley on it right now, and Nate says it runs excellent. Apparently the trans needs some attention. I am not an auto trans mechanic, nor do I ever want to be, so a few more days at Widow's and all should be well.

[slashfan7964]

I've heard good things about 1406's in the past and just as many bad things but it doesn't surprise me that it was junk out of the box honestly. I've also heard that before. But then again, that can be the case with a lot of things. My dad once told me just because it's new doesn't mean it'll work.

I have heard good things about Summit carbs. A friend of mine bought one and I believe he said it was literally identical to a Holley 600cfm 4 barrel but had the Summit name on it, and was way cheaper than buying a Holley. Couldn't tell you what model off the top of my head though. Personally, I've never used them because my father drilled into my head that Holley's were the be all-end all when it came to carbs and fuel systems but I wouldn't mind experimenting with them.

Glad this one is running good though. :p

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well that's unfortunate.

I bought my truck with those components already on it. But my 1406 has been working A-OK for me so far..... Win some, lose some I guess....

[6speedthumper]

I've heard good and bad about the Edelbrocks. Me personally, I've had poor luck with Holleys. I've rebuilt several, and have had a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro of a time dialing them in, or, having the metering blocks themselves leak. Had a brand new Holley 670 street avenger that came with a GMPP ZZ4 crate engine that a customer supplied, and it was a piece of trash. Should have just put a Q-jet on it instead of screwing with that Holley. I've never had issues with a Quadrajet.

[slashfan7964]

I got to say, Holleys as good as they can be, can be a bit of a PITA to tune right.


Everybody's got something good and bad to say about everything.

[MTS]

Very nice! Have had good and bad luck with both styles of carbs...currently running a quick fuel took a bit longer to dial in but very happy with the performance much better off idle throttle response when compared to the 1406 edelbrock. And the choke actually works properly.

[DohcBikes]

When we dropped it off, I asked Dave (Widow) if he needed a hand for Saturdays. There are a lot of high dollar projects there, and I realized instantly that I want to get back in to the hot rod scene. I really can't offer him more than a day a week right now.

Yep. I'll be Hot Rodding on Saturdays starting next week. He mentioned something about a 4x4 hearse..... another thread in the making?

[6speedthumper]

A 4x4 hearse... Now that's cool.

[86T3]

I was under the impression that the edelbrocks were just shiny new quadrajets? I ran one on my nova in high school. It got the job done but they arent the best for performance. Never heard problems about them right out of the box but id imagine theyre built in china now.

[slashfan7964]

When we dropped it off, I asked Dave (Widow) if he needed a hand for Saturdays. There are a lot of high dollar projects there, and I realized instantly that I want to get back in to the hot rod scene. I really can't offer him more than a day a week right now.

Yep. I'll be Hot Rodding on Saturdays starting next week. He mentioned something about a 4x4 hearse..... another thread in the making?

I love the hot rodding scene. I grew up in it. 454 Monza's, blown GTO's, big block Mustangs, rat rods....the whole 9.

[6speedthumper]

I love the hot rodding scene. I grew up in it. 454 Monza's, blown GTO's, big block Mustangs, rat rods....the whole 9.

Why does this sound like my pop?? Lol.

[slashfan7964]

Why does this sound like my pop?? Lol.

Do we have the same dad? :lol: :p


Just like tonight. Drag strip bound I was. Lots of expensive toys I can't have :/

[6speedthumper]

Do we have the same dad? :lol: :p


Just like tonight. Drag strip bound I was. Lots of expensive toys I can't have :/


If we do, I'll apologize now, lol! Oh yeah, I dislike car shows for that reason. Too many cars that I can't afford to own :( I'm just itching to get my own classic on the road ;)

[slashfan7964]

@DOHC, sorry for kinda dragging this off topic bud.

@6speedthumper

I might post a build thread for my dad's pickup. That thing has been built up frame off probably twice and a lot of money into it. But yeah I know how that goes. Still fun to hang out though.

[DohcBikes]

Yes the edelbrocks are now made in China. No they were never shined up Rochester's. They are completely different.

[6speedthumper]

Yes the edelbrocks are now made in China. No they were never shined up Rochester's. They are completely different.

Yes, completely different. I think they originally based their carbs off of the Carter AFB?? Either way, after all I've been reading from Edel users lately, I'm going to go Holley on my car. Unless someone else reputable makes 450-500cfm 4bbls?

[slashfan7964]

Yes, completely different. I think they originally based their carbs off of the Carter AFB?? Either way, after all I've been reading from Edel users lately, I'm going to go Holley on my car. Unless someone else reputable makes 450-500cfm 4bbls?
I have been told a lot of Summit carbs are exact replicas of Holleys on the cheap. Everyone I know who has used them swears by them.

[6speedthumper]

I have been told a lot of Summit carbs are exact replicas of Holleys on the cheap. Everyone I know who has used them swears by them.

That's what I have heard. I need the smaller cfm for what I'm doing, and the 4 barrel is far better then the 2. Don't see any summit carbs in the 450-500cfm range though.

[DohcBikes]

That's what I have heard. I need the smaller cfm for what I'm doing, and the 4 barrel is far better then the 2. Don't see any summit carbs in the 450-500cfm range though.
Whats your car? Holley makes a 465 4bbl and and a 570 4bbl. Street avenger carbs are awesome.

Yes the eddy's are Carter clones.

4bbl better than 2....meh, depends. Believe it or not, a 500 2bbl is more of a race carb than A 500 4bbl. It will have more of a tendency to bog off idle but will have a stronger mid to high rpm pull. Its hard to compare the two, they are for different applications.

Summit sells clones of the 570 holley, and remanned 500cfm Rochester 2-jets. The 570 Holleys can be tuned for a HUGE range of applications.

[6speedthumper]

Whats your car? Holley makes a 465 4bbl and and a 570 4bbl. Street avenger carbs are awesome.

Yes the eddy's are Carter clones.

4bbl better than 2....meh, depends. Believe it or not, a 500 2bbl is more of a race carb than A 500 4bbl. It will have more of a tendency to bog off idle but will have a stronger mid to high rpm pull. Its hard to compare the two, they are for different applications.

Summit sells clones of the 570 holley, and remanned 500cfm Rochester 2-jets. The 570 Holleys can be tuned for a HUGE range of applications.


For street purposes, I like the 4 barrels for the off idle response. I have no problems with a 2 barrel, but for stop light racing and that off idle hit, I'll stick with a 4.

Car is a 1970 AMC Javelin. I'm building a 4.6L I6 stroker for it. Going for 300hp. 9.5-10:1 comp, ported head, ported dual plain intake, dual header, HEI, LS valve train, Lunati Voodoo cam (220/226 dur). Ford Racing T5Z manual trans, 3.73 rear w/locker, 25.5" tall tires.

I just recently watched a could of dyno pull vids of two different 4.6 strokers. One set up for a turbo (8.43:1, and custom ground Comp) but broken in carbed. First with a 390 Holley, then for kicks, a 750 Holley. Made 312HP. Then, another with 9.7:1 (218/223 cam) with the 750 Holley, making 350HP.

[slashfan7964]

I'm with you both on this stuff. A guy I know runs a built Ford 302 in his dirt race car with a 500cfm 2 barrel he says makes about 500 horsepower. For street purposes I have always prefered a 4 barrel. A lot of people tend to over carb though. Can't tell you how many times I've seen a Holley 750 Double Pumper on an otherwise stock engine. It's overkill.

[6speedthumper]

Yeah, I've seen the same over carbing. If I was to do nothing but drag race this car I'd consider using the 750, or close to it. But, for a street car/driver, it's too much. No more then 500 cfm will work well for my application. Holley has a 450 non choke carb that'll work well.

[slashfan7964]

Yeah, I've seen the same over carbing. If I was to do nothing but drag race this car I'd consider using the 750, or close to it. But, for a street car/driver, it's too much. No more then 500 cfm will work well for my application. Holley has a 450 non choke carb that'll work well.
Honestly, for what it is though I still feel like a 750 would be too much. Interesting choice opting for a 6 cylinder though. Most people say to hell with the old inline motors (torquey sumbitches too) and drop V8's in them.

[DohcBikes]

You are NOT going to get 300 horsepower from your naturally aspirated 4.6 liter, no matter how many times you click your heels and pray before bedtime. I built SEVERAL 4.5,4.6,and 4.7 liter strokers back when I was building Jeeps.

Ok guys. This is a Bowtie thread. Post accordingly.

[6speedthumper]

You are NOT going to get 300 horsepower from your naturally aspirated 4.6 liter, no matter how many times you click your heels and pray before bedtime. I built SEVERAL 4.5,4.6,and 4.7 liter strokers back when I was building Jeeps.

Ok guys. This is a Bowtie thread. Post accordingly.


Either way, 300 is my goal. 260-270hp seems to be the norm with "medium sized" cams. I'd be happy with 270. But, you asked, I answered ;P lol.

You guys doing anymore mods to that square body of your roommates?

[DohcBikes]

He's moving back to california. That's why I passed it off, I don't operate under rushed conditions, because I know what happens when you rush tuning.

If it were mine I would put a bigger cam in it. Nate will probably just be happy to have it running well. If its still there next time I go down to the shop I'll give an update.