Good article about minimum wages and economy

[Yamada]

http://topinfopost.com/2014/06/30/ultra-rich-mans-letter-to-my-fellow-filthy-rich-americans-the-pitchforks-are-coming

[El Camexican]

Interesting read, but I didn't see the part where all the financially empowered service industry workers suddenly start buying goods made in the US and not the cheaper Chinese copies made by people still making $5 bucks a day.

You can't build a thriving economy around $15 per hour waiters and lawn care workers. It takes $25 per hour steel mill workers and assembly line workers putting cars into the hands of the waiters, but that isn't going to happen when the same guy that wrote the wonderful article likely has more people working for him in India and China than he does in the US. Its like listening to Al Gore tell us about carbon footprints from driving our cars as he blasts off in his private jet.

[DohcBikes]

The sad part is that he likely knows how many people have SUFFERED FROM HIS GREED. His day will come.

[RapidRick]

el camexican....close on the steel worker wage http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Construction-and-Extraction/Structural-iron-and-steel-workers.htm
generous on the waiter wage http://www.bls.gov/ooh/food-preparation-and-serving/waiters-and-waitresses.htm

we as a nation are critically short of tradesmen, since mfg was exported to low wage countries.

Not arguing, I agree with you. In our county we hover around 25-30% unemployed :(

[ironchop]

the problem with the minimum wage argument is that people REFUSE to consider History....they refuse because we all long for some ridiculously simple feel-good answer to everything so that the rich can keep being rich without the poor suffering too much...there is no such solution within those parameters.

FACT: we have tried to "eradicate poverty" by raising the minimum wage numerous times over the last several decades. Look it up. It`s true.

FACT: we STILL have poverty despite this "fix" several decades and many hikes in the wage later

FACT: Poverty affects even more folks now than ever. That`s technically moving backwards whereas it concerns wage equality. The facts support this.

FACT: You should NOT trust a billionaire when he says he is concerned with your well-being and that you suffer from inequality as a result of the policies that made him/her rich in the first place.... without these policies, he would be as broke as you are. That's like a guy who gets laid four times a day telling you that people should not have that much sex as it spreads disease, destroys families, and produces unwanted children. Stop falling for this crap everytime some Pelosi, Feinstein, McCain, or Romney tells you that they care about you having to eat Ramen for supper 6 nights a week. Use your head when you hear them speak. It`s not that hard and at one time, Sense was a lot more common than today. Stop being a low-information voter.

FACT: every time minimum wage increased OR labor costs increase for ANY reason whatsoever, Inflation increases as well. You make more? Then you will pay more. Period. Why the hell does anyone believe that a rich guy will finally say "You know what? I don`t need anymore money than I have so I`m going to settle for less profit for myself AND my shareholders so that Joe FrenchFry can afford an Iphone 5 and a nicer buy-here-pay-here car"? Same folks who believe OIL companies do not gouge us at the pump using ludicrous excuses about higher costs all while they rake in RECORD PROFIT quarter after agonizing quarter (for us consumers). Why do people keep falling for the same old snake oil salesmen and their same old stack of lies and misinformation? What is so difficult about seeing the glaring TRUTH right before your own eyes?

FACT: all republicans and democrats are POS crooks.....all of them. Not ONE is worthy of the title.

FACT: ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, FOX, PBS NEwsHour, Huffington Post, NY Times, Washington Post....they are all full of sh!t, tell lies repeatedly, and are run by all these same Elitist Fools who fleece your pockets while you believe the soundbites that spew forth feigning "journalism".......What the hell is wrong with people who believe that Ted Turner (billionaire) would NOT control the managing editors of his huge media empire to shine kindly upon the status quo while misdirecting the anger, resentment, and discontent of a growing number of Americans who are tired of being lied to? What`s to stop him from lying about everything? "journalistic Integrity?"....not even close. The God of these people is Money and you need Control to continue making Money in this day and age....Left owned or Right owned, the Media is all bullsh%$.

FACT: So what if Ford increased his wages? Did he not increase the price of the car as well? Yes........pull yer head out of your hind end. Why wouldn`t he?....so what do we have in this day and age? More working poor that cannot afford a new car....just like the old days before minimum wage.

FACT: NO rich politician or special Lobbying interest or business interest would EVER let Congress pass comprehensive reform that would benefit the poor at the expense of the rich. This is why you have FAILED quantitative easing, FAILED bailouts of banks and the UAW/GM/ Chrysler, FAILED "Affordable Care", increased taxes, decreased benefits, FAILED social policies, FAILED economic models meant to appease the poor ("as long as I can shoot them a check for some new wheels, a cell, phone, or a big screen TV, they will shut up and go away for a few yrs") .......or how about "mortgages for all, even the low income!"......how well have ANY of these policies worked out to eradicate poverty and eliminate crushing debt for the middle class? NOT ONE BIT.

FACT: Americans will continue to get screwed because the Truth is too hard to accept, they won`t take responsibility for their own financial ruin, won`t stop racking up phenomenal debt, won`t bother to educate themselves even in the slightest BEFORE they vote, will believe EVERYTHING the television tells them to believe, would rather vote to prove they aren`t racists than to vote for any real good or change through education and qualification. You would rather watch Dancing with the Stars, the NFL, or Breaking Bad than to spend even ten minutes a day aquainting yourself with US Politics so that YOU can make better choices when exercising your Right to Participate in the process. People just want to complain during commercial breaks and go on being ignorant, arrogant, and worthless

FACT: these feel-good policies and the policies that reward immigration, reward free trade while KILLING the American Manufacturing worker and KILLING Tradesmen. You wanted NAFTA and you got it and two decades later, the EXACT things that were warned about are now coming true....but who cares because Bill Clinton was soooo charming?

FACT: 17 Trillion deficit does NOT mean we borrowed EXISTING currency from foreign countries. It means we printed 17 Trillion dollars of worthless money with NOTHING to back it up........when an Italian prints fake money, it`s called Counterfeiting and its a FELONY.....when the Fed does it, it`s called quantitative Easing and it`s heralded by the Media, the Liberals, and the Poor as necessary to equality....FRAUD!

FACT: This American Economy WILL CRASH with the full force of what some European countries are experiencing....hell, ask elvetost how the QE from the EU has worked to revive a completely destroyed Greek Economy....its worse now and they gave up sovereignty and personal rights to get this fake bailout from the EU.....maybe you missed that soundbyte about Cyprus and Greece while Kanye was on the Grammy`s cursing the majority for his own problems and bullying little country singers.

FACT: I regret EVER getting ANY higher education and/or learning ANY trades so that I may work my way into Middle Class. I should have settled for underachieving and complaining about the "unfairness" of it all. I should have just waited and skated by until some rich guy on the Media promised to raise me up out of poverty without me having to do any work whatsoever save for an occasional protest in front of a McDonalds outlet. I should have jst been patient and slacked about until Obama and the Money Police saved me from myself. After all, I am NOTHING without my government to save me. Rich politicians really do know what`s best for Working America. WHo am I to question that?

twenty years learning all forms of Industrial and Residential Construction, Machining, and Welding so that I could make four times more than the minimum wage worker down at Sonic Drive-In........twenty years of busting my ass and taking loads of $h!t from bosses so that with a stroke of the Liberal Pen, I can now only make 6 dollars an hour more than those who have no drive, direction, or perseverance to raise their families in comfort. Twenty years so that now the buying power of my dollar has been diluted by uneducated, fake-compassionate, crooked, unengaged, illogical, and fruitless attempts to win over more low-income voters by handing out pointless solutions and trivial trinkets in exchange for Freedom and Self-reliance.......

yeah I`m going to call my HS Guidance Counselor and tell her when she said I needed to "work hard and apply yourself to get far here in America" that she is a lying, irrelevant, racist with no idea of how Economy works....cuz MSNBC says I`m supposed to think like that.....I`ll just explain that Obama says all I have to do is complain loudly and shirk any responsibility for my own choices and the circumstances that have befallen me due to those choices.

rant over

[ironchop]

FACT: all republicans and democrats are POS crooks.....all of them. Not ONE is worthy of the title.



to clarify: Republican and Democrat POLITICIANS are all POS.....not to say their constituents are

[DohcBikes]

1. Stop having babies when you know damn well you either don't want, can't handle, or can't afford to be fully responsible for that human.

2. Stop buying every g.d. thing you see every time you get some money.

3. Stop being a mindless wasting consumer.

4. If you have to make payments on it, that means you cant afford it. My grandpa has worked a billion times harder than me, he's never made a payment on a brand new truck, why the hell would i need one?

[redsox]

guy is the poster boy for rich guilt/sudden wealth syndrome. ironchop,,, very well written, sir. that is some unleashed fury for a three wheeler site!! wowza!

[ironchop]

ironchop,,, very well written, sir. that is some unleashed fury for a three wheeler site!! wowza!

that's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, sir

[DohcBikes]

I damn near needed a cigarette after that wonderful encounter with words doug. I don't smoke anymore, another one of their tricks to keep the rich rich and the poor poor.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Mike Rowe is out there actively working to get people trained for in-demand trades and working toward a better life. He is one public figure who is putting his money where his mouth is. One of the few "big" voices out there shouting from the rooftops what many people like us have been saying for a long time... It's a start and it's the REAL solution. http://www.mikeroweworks.com/home

Get people learning trades where their labor is ACTUALLY WORTH MORE and more IN DEMAND, instead of just paying more for the same level of knowledge and ability (or lack thereof) Just showing up and breathing does not entitle you to a 100k per year job!...minimum skill=minimum pay.. Don't like it?? GET MOTIVATED, GET AMBITIOUS...DO BETTER!

Yet another example of too much government. And with too much government comes and incestuous relationship between said big government and well funded "special interests" whose squeaky wheels are the only ones greased......

[redsox]

also check out some of the John Ratzenberger stuff. Same idea. yes, he was cliff clavin. smart guy. good guy.

[ironchop]

I've been following Mike Rowe for some time now. He knows what he is talking about. He convinced me to have my son consider a Trade School rather than 4 yrs college and massive debt to gradua with. I have friends with MBAs who are barely clearing 30K and owe huge school loans. The notion of "college for everyone" was another BS feel-good idea that was ill-conceived

[El Camexican]

I'vI have friends with MBAs who are barely clearing 30K and owe huge school loans. The notion of "college for everyone" was another BS feel-good idea that was ill-conceived

My Dad always said "Send a dummy to school and all you get is an educated dummy" All these years later I have to agree with him.

[redsox]

"let him have it. its not wise to upset a wookiee." -abe lincoln

[El Camexican]

Chuy says:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmVXJ3hQrPo

y estoy de acuerdo con Chuy!

[DohcBikes]

The Feds must have had their hands full with this wookie.....;)

196991

[ironchop]

Your the only one that gets it.......it`s called get it done now before it`s too late ! The first thing to do ......RUN THE FACKIN BANKS !.......before the sign says .....the feds have seized your assets ...ha ha FAA-Q ! But....but it`s just a twee wheeler site it`s too heavy to discuss !! I damn near needed a cigarette or a shot of horse.......but no.....i`m the perfect human being don`t you agree ? It`s a facefack ego trip overload wasteland.....no balls !!.......please hate me i`m not on Prozac !

Glamy....Im not sure what the F@€K you just said but I throw my fist in the air and say "Right-the-F@€K-on, Brother!"

[bkm]

My Dad always said "Send a dummy to school and all you get is an educated dummy" All these years later I have to agree with him.

One of my favorite sayings is, "buy em books, send em to school, and they still come back stupid".

[6speedthumper]

I have no regrets for NOT going to college. Why on earth would someone want to spend every bit of 20+ years taking test, exams, having homework, dealing with teachers, etc... Just to have a gigantic student loan, and, no job to pay it back? I learned a trade, I enjoy it (most of the time) and I owe next to nothing for anything, because I bust my trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro to cover my trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro. College students have zero idea of what life is about. They all think that where they are in college, is how the rest of their lives will be. Those are the people that are expected to run things once they get out of college, and move into the non-existent work force. People that have no clue as to how to run things, work hard, see the fruits of their labor... They are all brainwashed, and can only see as far as the new I-phone or social network. Facebook is the downfall of our civilization. Near everyone is on there sharing crap about their lives to everyone just as shallow, just as lazy, just as frivolous as they.

Technology is fast becoming the enemy, and has been for a long time now. I really enjoy my sci-fi, but, some of it is really too close to home. Many of what we see from today's sci-fi shows and movies can indeed happen. The one good thing is that it gives us an idea of what to expect when the sh!t does hit the fan. Worst part is, the government is pushing us towards it, because they "hold all the cards". It enrages me that we can vote someone into office (hire), but to get them out of office (fire) takes an act of God, simply because they feel their sh!t don't stink, and therefore see themselves just as entitled as the welfare collecting piles of crap that they the government cater to. I could go on, but, what's the point??

[Mr. Clean]

I have zero regrets for going to college and now having a good paying job with good benefits and no student loan debt, and yeah I have no idea what life is about.

[6speedthumper]

I have zero regrets for going to college and now having a good paying job with good benefits and no student loan debt, and yeah I have no idea what life is about.

Wasn't aimed at any one college student in particular. Graduated or currently attending. I have met many a person, and have many a friend/family member that has gone to college, gotten a good job, and understands what the real world is like. However, I have dealt with many college students (customers) that really have no clue whether they are coming or going. Mommy and daddy pay for everything, they can't see beyond their group of college friends, and the collegiate atmosphere. I just recently dated a girl that attends the college in the town I work in, great gal, it just didn't work out. And, out of the couple dozen friends of hers I hung out with, I was not impressed with the way they see the world, and what they think it will give, or, not give to them.

College is not for everyone. It wasn't for me, and I knew that from an early age. It had nothing to offer me, and so I decided to go straight into the work force. Sure, I got the education I needed to do what I do. But, college was not an option that I was going to make.

[DohcBikes]

College students have zero idea of what life is about. They all think that where they are in college, is how the rest of their lives will be. Those are the people that are expected to run things once they get out of college, and move into the non-existent work force. People that have no clue as to how to run things, work hard, see the fruits of their labor... They are all brainwashed, and can only see as far as the new I-phone or social network.
Uhhh, what? Ya this isn't aimed at any one college student. It's aimed at all of us. Sometimes people say things before they think about it, well I know I do...:D



I have no regrets for NOT going to college. 197028

[El Camexican]

One of my favorite sayings is, "buy em books, send em to school, and they still come back stupid".

"Knowledge is Power, but Ignorance is Bliss"

[El Camexican]

Let's not anyone be thinking that education is a waste of time. Education benefits us all, but not all of us benefit from it.

[6speedthumper]

Sorry. The subjects of college, jobs after college, the notion of college education being a necessity or not, and people who have not attended college being successful without it, have all been brought up. I was only wanting to share my .02 on the subjects. Maybe I am a little biased towards those that are in college (I'm talking about the current generation that is attending college, the generation that I have the most experience with. Perhaps this all has to do with the current generation?) because they made a very poor impression on me. Maybe I have some unresolved issues with some rich college student that pissed me off at some point in my life. Or, maybe I'm just tired of life and it's people in general, and I used the opportunity to vent after a long day. Maybe I should have just not exercised my freedom of speech to become a part of the discussion, so as not to offend anyone that felt the need to take offense to something that was not directed toward anyone on this forum. Perhaps all those that have gone to college share a certain unspoken bond similar to combat vets, sports teams, firefighters, etc, and therefore I picked a fight with the entire college community? If I had not stated that I did not attend college, it would have been anyone's guess as to my level of education, and perhaps the offense folks have taken to this wouldn't have happened, or been as great??? Because no one would jump to the conclusion that I didn't attend college, and feared they'd be sticking their foot in their mouth??? Either way, things have gotten interesting ;)

[bkm]

I believe continued education is very important. Whether it be college or trade related or both, you will never make it on brawn alone. You gotta have brains and want to continue to learn. An education is not a waste of money. Spending your money to be educated in a field with zero use or marketability is what is a waste of money.

[6speedthumper]

I believe continued education is very important. Whether it be college or trade related or both, you will never make it on brawny alone. You gotta have brains and want to continue to learn. An education is not a waste of money. Spending your money to be educated in a field with zero use or marketability is what is a waste of money.


I agree. ^^^

[clmeue37]

It has been my experience that not all education costs money. Sure, many employers love to see that piece of paper that proves you have a certain level of education in a particular field, I understand that. I work hard, and have trained hard to do what I do. My employer has payed for me to take a few training courses that apply to my field of work and I have advanced in the workplace. College didn't work for me. Am I ashamed of that? No. Am I an uneducated, unsuccessful individual? No. People need to sit back and ask themselves how they want to live in this country, how they want their quality of life to be and set a goal. Achieving this goal takes hard work, be it college, trade school, or other opportunities for advancement. Unfortunately in today's American society the notion of hard work scares most individuals. They're handed houses, cell phones, and food directly from our governing body itself. I could keep going on but my point is, due to these facts, this economy is going to take one hell of a hit in a damn hurry.

PS: this thread is actually progressing in a civilized and productive direction. It's like a breath of fresh air! :)

[ironchop]

I have no problem with college

I have a problem with trying to send everybody to college....there are simply not enough jobs for these people and racking up a 20yr debt right before you are starting an additional 15-30 yr debt on a home to live in....The feel-good notion that everyone deserves access to college has been twisted a bit. People deserve access to (the opportunity to go to) college but that does NOT mean they deserve to go because you think that they are gonna come home and clean up their own neighborhoods. I live in a large college town and the student body there commits more crime in the community than the long-term residents do. These kids have been allowed to be irresponsible little pricks all their lives and then somebody foot their college bill (because "inequality") and instead of pulling themselves up and make better of themselves, they choose to bring the drama with them and try and change my lovely neighborhood into something that more resembles their old neighborhood. You may deserve the opportunity to go to college but that does NOT mean you belong there nor deserve a free ride either.

My main issue is that Trade school was always pushed aside in the incessant drive to send every kid with a pulse to a University. In the 80s, everyone wanted to be Wall Street or Risky Business so they went to get their stamped-out MBA and when they hit the job market, reality set in. My youngest is in Nursing School right now and I worry that Obamacare will pretty much destroy the days of folks making a nice living on a Medical Degree.

Hell when I was a kid, only the slacker hoodlum kids went to Trade School was the message my highschool pushed.....this is how the public has been indoctrinated into the "University Experience"....now BOTH of my girls got College paid for thru ACADEMIC SCHOLARSHIPS and my oldest had a completely free ride as a Kentucky Governor`s Scholar...they had to work HARD for the experience. My youngest still has 1400 a yr to pay after the Scholarships pay the rest. Anything other than college was not an option as far as their Highschools were concerned. Trade school is only suggested as a catch-all for the leftover kids who would never be able to afford or make the entrance exam for college.

Another thing I have a problem with is the cost-benefit ratio of a University education for some students....four yrs and 40,000+ debt for a piece of paper that insures you score a 38K a year job is just a bad choice IMO....sure you can be a Doctor or Lawyer and make exponentially more, but with anything, too many of a certain thing destroys it for everyone. This is what HS counselors have failed horribly at teaching kids about Life and Kids watch MTV and get the idea that college is all liquor, drugs, and wild sex. Who doesn`t want that?

College can be good FOR SOME.....does everyone deserve to go? NO... Does a college degree need to be required in some instances? NO... I`m a better Engineer than many I have seen graduate Engineering School but this is just Human Nature. Stupid, lazy people come in all shapes and sizes. I`ve met some dumb doctors, lawyers who couldn`t change a flat tire because the four-way looked too complicated, and MBA holders who couldn`t run a profitable Lemonade stand.....but I`ve also known worthless Machinists with degrees, terrible welders, and crappy Carpenters or wannabe electricians with a Union apprenticeship. It takes all kinds to make up the Good or the Bad. A formal education is by now means indicative of intelligence or capable reasoning skills.

IMO sending every man, woman, or child to college is merely to pad the pockets of these institutions. It also is detrimental to the American Economy. Training everyone to be anything BUT a tradesmen will eventually cause irreparable damage to our Manufacturing Sector (if we even have one anymore)........and NO, you cannot "be whatever you want to be"....more feel-good nonsense.....some kids are not intelligent enough to be a surgeon or an astronaut....so stop letting them believe if they can get a loan or a handout for college, they can somehow magically become an Astronaut in 6 yrs or a Surgeon in 8.....Hell, I see kids every DAY who are NOT smart enough for some trade school programs. I also know MANY Tradesmen who would run circles around a University graduate in the Intelligence department. The stigma of trade school needs to be eliminated because the stereotypes that perpetuate the march toward a college education in a lot of cases are just that....stereotypes. I`m not going to support the idea of "everybody goes and we will have happiness, success, world peace, no poverty, and Iphones for all".....that's a bulls!t notion and it`s probably supported by the University lobby I`m sure. Highschool does little if anything to prepare these kids for REALITY despite how much money we keep dumping into the idea.

Some kids have no drive. Some kids are not very smart. Some kids are incapable of leaving their bad neighborhoods behind. Some kids don`t want to be anything other than selfish and entitled. Some kids don`t want to work at all if they can avoid it..........sending these little slackers to ANY sort of higher education won`t change the fact that they will always be worthless and frankly, I`m really sick and tired of my tax dollars funding this stupidass Social Experiment so that Narcissistic people can find yet another reason to pat themselves on the back and tell everyone about how philanthropic they are. This Social Experiment is going to help destroy the Economy because feeling good about oneself is far more important than REALITY and far more important than the fact that you are helping destroy those less fortunate than you because your arrogance wont allow you to see that your actions may make you look good to your friends but at the same time, they chisel away at what we have built in this country.....who cares if everyone else is hungry, homeless, and broke when you can brag to your friends about how you supported socialist experiments in order to help you sleep soundly at night?

In short, College gets way too much props and Trade Schools don`t get enough. I went to college for Pre-Veterinary Med (dropped out after 4 semesters) but never spent a day in a Trade School (I apprenticed back when one could do that) and I`m a Machinist and make good money considering. If I could go back and do it over, I would have went to Trade School instead. I let my son make his own decisions and UK, Western, and U of L are trying to recruit him HARD (he got a 28 on ACT) but he`s afraid to get into a buch of debt so he`s wanting to hit Trade School for machining instead, hit the workforce now, and then maybe go to Engineering School at a University later down the road. I support that and told him he could live at home while he completes school no matter how long it takes, that way he can use his job income (he works) as college funds as he goes.

Like I said, I`m not down on college/university. I`m just fed up with these crazy notions that everyone needs/deserves to go and therefore someone from the Government needs to either send these people on my tab OR jack up min wage so that they don`t have to get a higher education in order to get a huge pay raise....just complain and cry and the Gov will save you and destroy the economy all over again so that they can pat themselves on the back, give each other awards for Philanthropy at a fancy banquet, and pretend like they are the moral and ethical bunch which should be worshipped and heeded by the Lesser beings.

Just because somebody says "Everyone should get to go" or "everyone should get to make that much money" or "everyone should get nice houses and cars" does NOT make it a good idea or even doable. I`m really tired of people whose brain just stops working immediately after they think they have come up with a good idea to solve social ills. It sounds fantastic therefore it must be the case.....consequences be damned....and I`m tired of damned consequences making my life so much more difficult every time I turn around.

[DohcBikes]

We need people like ironchop in office.

Somebody get this mofo a nomination! :D

[ironchop]

We need people like ironchop in office.

Somebody get this mofo a nomination! :D

Thanks for the vote of confidence......I may be halfway decent at articulating a complaint but that doesn`t mean I`m a good leader.

[DohcBikes]

And modest to boot. I'd rather have truth and solutions than be "Lead" to where things are going now...

[6speedthumper]

We need people like ironchop in office.

Somebody get this mofo a nomination! :D


I second the notion!!! Damn good read ironchop!!!

[El Camexican]

make sure to wipe up..... not down so we don`t get smelly balls . :D:D

Not an issue, if the Dems win in 2016 they'll take care of that task for you.

[El Camexican]

None of the above will really fix it Mr. Glamy. "Change" as you (and me with our "Reformas") is smoke, mirrors and BS. You said it best about rushing the banks and a tax revolt, but who's going to do it? It would be a massacre. Between drones, domestic terror provisions, Executive orders and the ability to print what they need any REAL uprising would be crushed, they are ready for it. With over 50% of the working (and non-working) populace on the government tit the numerical majority of the sheeple like it just the way it is and will ride this sinking boat all the way into the rocks.

[DohcBikes]

Bob Barker says......"Help control the human population, have yourself spayed or neutered".

[sledcrazyinCT]

Trade schools continue to disappear, society has downplayed the importance of tradesmen and somehow has made working for a living a bad thing.

I see many tradesmen today pushing their children to not follow in their footsteps and try to college for a different way to earn a living instead. It is very sad considering the people I am talking about have been in the same industry for generations and they were proud, having learned from their fathers and grandfathers working alongside each other building up America.

Now these same skilled craftsmen somehow believe it better their child do something else that others in society don't look down upon. Crying shame as so many have mentioned without people who are willing to roll up their sleeves to fix and build things where is the USA really heading?

[6speedthumper]

Trade schools continue to disappear, society has downplayed the importance of tradesmen and somehow has made working for a living a bad thing.

I see many tradesmen today pushing their children to not follow in their footsteps and try to college for a different way to earn a living instead. It is very sad considering the people I am talking about have been in the same industry for generations and they were proud, having learned from their fathers and grandfathers working alongside each other building up America.

Now these same skilled craftsmen somehow believe it better their child do something else that others in society don't look down upon. Crying shame as so many have mentioned without people who are willing to roll up their sleeves to fix and build things where is the USA really heading?

Well, it's so much that, as it is making a living. In this economy it is extremely hard to make a living, and be able to live comfortably. I'm not saying eat out every night, buy a new car every two years, take a tropical get away every year, etc... Just the difference between killing oneself with work to hopefully make ends meet and not enjoying life; and knowing that the bills are paid, business is good, and not having to struggle to put food on the table.

I very much believe in tradesmen. And, at one time, we were THE textile leader of the world. However, everything has turned into make money without getting your hands dirty, or collect some form of welfare. Because of this, many people don't want to get their hands dirty. Why do that when the government will just hand you money, or when you can work behind a desk pushing a pencil, designing a website, developing a video game, and so on...??? Everything has been pushed towards making money without having to put in a "honest day's work".

Then there is the other side of the spectrum. Everyone is trying to save money were they can. Be it to have "cushion" in one's account, or, affording that new I-phone/flat screen/vacation/etc... Then there are most people that feel they can tackle most hands on things themselves, therefore they have a problem with paying a professional to do the work/repair. Because of all the tutorials out there on the net/youtube, it's not but a google search away to find out what you need to know, and how to repair the problem. All at the cost of only the parts and possibly some tools. I can't tell you how many people come into our shop and complain that the estimate is too high, and that they have done a similar repair at home and "know" that it doesn't take that long. What am I supposed to do? Work for free!?! I'm the professional, not you. I've been to school for this, not you. I've had to invest in tools and diagnostic equipment, not you. I have overhead that I need to cover. Insurance I need to pay. Hazardous waste charges, markup (which I am entitled to), possible sub-contractor work, etc... And, on top of all that, I'm charging you the recommended labor time, not a minute more. My labor rate is right on par with everyone else in town, and there are many instances where I don't charge the full list price of certain parts Only because the difference between my cost and list price is so astronomical that I'm pretty much stealing from a customer, and that's not always right. If you think the price is too high, do it yourself. This is not, "lets make a deal auto repair".

Another thing that is becoming more and more difficult, is owning/running a small business. There is no support for the small business man, and there are no tax breaks for small businesses. At least not many. Certainly not like there are for big businesses and large corporations. Where they give these multi-billion businesses some pretty ridiculous tax breaks, they make up for it with the small business man. The government, local/state/federal, has made it increasingly difficult to operate a small business. Or, to be a self employed worker (10-99) with the taxes they hit you with. Unless you can claim pretty much all of your expenses, you're going to get walloped come tax time. Or so this is the problem my sister is having.

All in all, it boils down to a pretty bleak proposition to go to work for oneself/open a small business. Sure, there are still larger companies that are hiring and you don't have to worry about all I stated above. But, there has to be a market for you to get that job and make money doing it. Many of the tradesmen that are/were proud to be what they are/were, worked for themselves or went in business with friend(s)/family. And now that the economy, government, and yes the people, have become what they are, it is very difficult to stay positive and see a future doing what you are proud of.

When you don't see a future doing what you are proud of, you don't want your children to suffer the same fate. So why encourage them to take up the trade that you have done? The trade that your father, maybe even grandfather, have done?

[El Camexican]

Glamy's right, the gold standard your forefathers so thoughtfully enacted into law is gone and with it so is the value of paper and tin money. The government doesn't eve control the Fed!!! It's house of cards and the wind is blowing. Land, guns and ammo. That is where the real value is.

Oh, about that licking thing, there is help available if you do need to get out once in a while.
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[badandy]

Bob Barker says......"Help control the human population, have yourself spayed or neutered".

Ha Ha... That's what I did! After my second daughter was born, I made the decision that I could only afford the two a good life. Done, and NO REGRETS!

After my 2yr tech school education, which I paid for myself, now 23yrs trade experience, and able to count on one hand the number of weeks that I have had to collect any type of unemployment assistance... I have managed to power through to a fairly rewarding career, that allows me to "steal from the rich" and sleep well at night knowing that I have worked, and worked hard for everything I own.... It isn't spectacular, but then again... I met my wife when living in a camper on the back of a truck, parked along side a cropduster strip, that I purchased at 21, for $300 at public auction, I lived in that thing for better than two years... Anybody who says it's too hard is simply a pussy!