A very eye opening documentary

[fabiodriven]

The main subject of this movie I'd say is quite obvious just by looking at it. However, I wish they had promoted it a bit differently. I feel as though there is so much more in this film than what the cover leads you to believe. Yes the movie is based on marijuana, but the amount that I learned about the government is astounding. I suggest if you want a factual dose of how this country really works to check out this film. There are a lot of opinions I've had for quite some time now, they're ever developing and evolving based on the more information I gather as time goes by. I feel as though this culture we live in has grown to completely immerse us and impose its will upon us, and that will is to consume as much as possible from us to feed a machine that is built to consume as much as possible from us. I feel that TV and radio are made to program people and make them feel what it is the machine wants you to feel. I feel as though this is fact because I have removed TV and radio from my life almost completely, therefor I have noticed how people regurgitate what it is they see on the TV and hear on radio. I'd rather have my own voice and thoughts.

Honestly I could go on all night so I must digress. For the sake of keeping this thread on track I want to insist on one rule. It may be the demise of the thread from the word go, but it will help it from going awry. I would like to insist in order to reply in this thread you must have viewed the documentary in its entirety. You are entitled to your own opinion and all are welcome from any direction. I don't insist all watch this video, that's up to you, but please don't comment if you've not. I'd love for Mickey to watch this, but I'll say right now I've no need to watch any religious videos so I can respect anyone who's not interested. It is a commitment.

Enjoy!

http://www.theculturehigh.com/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1778338/

I watched it on Netflix but anyone can watch it for free here- http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/192065/The_Culture_High_Full_Length_Documentary/

[fabiodriven]

I was hoping some people would have some things to say in either direction. I feel as though most of us on here view a lot of things in a similar light and the lack of replies to this subject to me kind of shows to me that many people are so caught up in the hamster wheel that they have not even the time to think for themselves. I do understand, many don't have the time to drop everything just to watch something suggested by someone else, particularly if you're of the mindset it's not something that would interest you.

My roommate just finished watching this about an hour ago. His scull is particularly thick when it comes to open mindedness and thinking outside of the box. I took offense the other night after I just finished saying that I don't take drugs when he said that I do. He was referring to marijuana which I do take issue with him saying. Even after watching this documentary the message still couldn't soak through his scull so I can see how other may still not understand as well. So sad to me. It's not that I'd like for everyone to see things my way, it's that I want them to see the truth.

If your head you choose to leave buried in the sand then by all means....

[RIDE-RED 250r]

John, I just haven't made time to watch it yet. I have refrained from posting some remarks as per your wishes.

I'll get 'er done soon though.

[ironchop]

My eyes were opened quite a bit when I watched this one almost 15 years ago

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0214730/

the reasons for initial pot prohibition being based in racism was especially disturbing....I do understand from watching the trailer that the documentary John posted doesn`t appear to be just about marijuana legalization per se`but rather about the bigger elephant in the room which is social engineering via control and prohibition and the ramifications for our civil rights as so-called "Free people" (a laughable concept in this day and age)

I`ve been disturbed at the trend toward arrogance in the thinking of many people. I find it a bit aggravating that so many people actually think they know whats best for others to the point that they see no issue in FORCING their ideology on everyone else at ANY cost. A lot of "Americans" need slapped back into humility IMO

I`m reserving comment until I can watch your link on Netflix at my sis-in-laws house for free this weekend.

otherwise I`m anxious to participate in this discussion for sure

[sledcrazyinCT]

Just saw this thread tonight...Me and the wife will have to watch this soon.

[redsox]

couldn't find it on netflix. is it still there? or has it been rotated out? i've got netflix through apple tv, and i don't think i get everything that way. also, i'm not good at using it. there are like 15 weed documentaries but this isn't one of em. unless it had an alternate title.

[fabiodriven]

Yes sir, still there Dan.

[fabiodriven]

Glamy is absotively smack dab on point in this particular instance. Well spoken brother!

[redsox]

Whats wrong with clicking the last link in fabs original post and viewing it on your computer for free even has full screen or stream it from any SMART device ?


i wanted to watch it on my tv and not my laptop. i was surfing Apple TV netflix and it wasn't available. i watched three episodes of archer and went to sleep. i'll probbly watch it tonight.

[sledcrazyinCT]

If you use the free link (just click on slick willy himself and it will play. Don't click on the 'download' or 'play' button beneath Bill Clinton, if you do it justs want to download iLivid which then tries to change your search engine and other computer settings.

[Bren_downe]

I watched it from my iPhone 4S. No issues. Thanks for sharing Fabio, it was a great video. A little disturbing but I saw the writing on the wall a long time ago. Ever since I was a teen me and my friends would sit around and marvel at how tobacco and alcohol can be legal but not MJ? Are you serious? Duh! Everybody already know how to grow it, make it legal and big brother will never get his cut. We'll see, it's getting closer but still has a long way to go.

[RapidRick]

If Glamy endorses it, it's a must see.

[Scootertrash]

Did you use the free link Glamy? If so how is your computer acting?

What turned me off from the free link posted for the movie were the 80+ comments about how some garbage search engine gets bundled into your PC and defaults to 'ASK' when you download it and the difficulty getting rid of it. I have experienced real issues in the past when downloading free service manuals with malware, then having to system restore and delete a bunch of worthless bundled crap . The worst were pop up ads with pics coming up every time you opened a craigslist ad or started a new page.



I'll play it safe and pay a few bucks to rent it still want to check it out


I used the free link, no computer issues so far, but I didn't download (as in didn't save it to my computer) the vid, I just let it load completely so I didn't have to put up with the sickening buffering every 30 seconds. It was taking forever so I let it load overnight.

I don't know what you're running for a browser sledcrazy, I run Firefox with NoScript and Adblocker as add-ons. I'm running Windows 7 with Microsoft Security Essentials. I never have issues with my computer.

I didn't see all the comments, the page I got from Fabios last link had 0 comments and only 2 ratings. I figured the ratings were from Fabio and glamy :lol:

I'll weigh in on the documentary a little later.

[Scootertrash]

make it legal and big brother will never get his cut.

Seriously?

[redsox]

watched it. thought it was really good. i'll admit that i was biased going in and pretty much still sour on it about half way through. i thought it was a (another) hit piece on the right. It was, until they hammered Obama and the current administration. The stats were bad in that part in particular, but i thought it lessened the obvious slant. Joe Rogan is cool as the other side of the pillow and there is not an ounce of lie in him. I respect him. He also seems emotional about the issue and obviously cares about it deeply. That is apparent, and makes him even more likable. I think maybe it would be seen as a more serious piece if they focused less on the rappers. B-Real, Snoop, and Wiz Khalifa are not the sources i'd choose to get my facts. Unless, of course, i wanted to know how to become a rapper. Then i'd ask them. The makers use them so heavily in order to attract viewers (particularly younger viewers), and to persuade their thinking. There was no serious attempt to hear from anyone that disagreed. Zero debate. Zero open forum. I think it would be a better film if it had cut the rappers and let the opposing view have a voice. I really liked how the internet was credited heavily for the success of the movement. I loved how the media was bashed. Loved it. It was a bit slanted against fox news more so than other outlets but i think it was balls on.
For the record, I'm 100% for open market legalization. I'm against government dispensaries, as the government will mess it up. It should fall under the oversight of the USDA, just like an apple. It should be restricted from kids like the current restrictions on tobacco. If there is a tax, which there most certainly will be, it should go to border protection. But it should be private companies that control it. It will most likely be controlled by Phillip Morris and RJ Reynolds. Thats right, AKA "Evil Corporations" to those of you in the conspiracy mold. The same people selling you the pills will be selling you the weed. They're selling you pepsi and doritos also. I don't think they're evil and out to kill you. i think they just want a bigger boat and a hotter wife. But i digress.
My fear is that the entire movement will hinder the prohibition efforts against real drugs. Weed is not heroin or meth. The foolish bimbo from the DEA can't see that, or can't say that, and its almost laughable. The whole point, i think, is moot because, like the guy in the movie said, "you're not gonna get this cat back in the bag."

[ironchop]

.... i`m afraid they might call my employer and tell them i might want to smoke pot !!!....

My employer already knows.....and he doesn`t care. Saves them money on whizz quiz`s because I already told the honest truth UP FRONT. No need to confirm what you already know.

[fabiodriven]

Dan I'm very glad you watched this and I appreciate your views and replies.

Glamy's last post is gospel to me, straight on, and I thank you very much for posting Glamy.

Dan in an attempt to explain some things it appears you may be missing, not an attempt to sway you, I feel as though part of your mind is still stuck with the prohibition. The efforts, the time, the money this country has spent in the prohibition of this plant did not go to waste. They have drilled into people's heads this stigma, as Glamy says, that there is something inherently sinister about this plant. I can assure you if it's something you are into it is completely harmless. If you happen to find it harmful, that's fine. Don't use it. But to be truly open minded and view what it is that video is showing you requires one to let go of what has been drilled into their minds since birth, which is that marijuana is a bad thing, which is wrong. They proved to you in the video who attached this stigma and why, when it started and who benefits from it, and why they fight so hard and INVEST in keeping this stigma attached and this plant illegal.

You don't want to take Artists such as Snoop Dog and B Real for their word on this subject? On the subject of marijuana? I listen to Snoop and Cypress Hill in moderation, but even if I didn't they, as well as the other artists you named, are at the pinnacle of their profession which is a very, very hard position to ascertain. They have all dealt with marijuana and consumed it in vast quantities over your experience and they are a voice of the people. If you choose not to partake in the art they express that's up to you, but you are not going to dismiss who these people are and why they were interviewed. As Glamy stated, THERE WERE PLENTY OF PROFESSORS AND SCIENTISTS PRESENTED WHO SHARED THEIR OPINIONS AS WELL. I want to ask you Dan, why it is you chose to ignore the fact that so many people with such high credentials were omitted from your review when the three "thugs" were your focus? And what is it any of them have done to deserve such a negative undertone? Do you have any idea how much Snoop Dog participates in his community? These are all very serious questions I'd like to add. This stigma and agenda is pushed so hard and has been so solid for so long, it seems people such as yourself might never rid your minds of this propaganda that has been fed you. You're smarter than that Dan, I know that for a fact.

The reason why the video may have appeared to be slanted to you Dan, is because it is. The truth in this case is so overwhelmingly evident, obvious, and unarguable that there isn't anyone to argue! They showed you clearly anyone who attempted to make a point, IN PUBLIC HEARINGS, people from the tops of their fields against this plant, those with the "A game", those who have access to any and all information as to why this plant is so hazardous and could bring the best counter-argument possible to the table, and you saw the same thing I did bud. You saw them cower, you saw them crumble, you saw them stutter, and the video explained why that is. Because those people, amongst many, many other corrupt, greedy crooks, STAND TO LOSE EVERYTHING THEY WORK FOR WHICH IS ALL A FALSEHOOD AND WILL LIE TO THEMSELVES AND THE PUBLIC IN ORDER TO BENEFIT FROM THIS PROHIBITION. Pardon my tone, haha. I just want to make sure this is understood. I don't know about you Dan, but I cannot stand liars. When someone lies to me it goes right up my arse sideways. You sat there and watched the opposition just as I did, and you watched them lie to themselves, us, and everyone in that room. It was plain as day and you even referred to it as "laughable", which you were completely correct about. It is utterly laughable that anyone would continue to propagate such lies in their own name while the entire rest of the country laughs at them. That's what these people get the big bucks for, to keep us "users" in check. What's laughable is them keeping us in check. You want to sit down and see the difference between what "legal" drugs will do to you and what marijuana will do we can sit down any day. Take a look at my posts from two years ago and look at me now. I'll tell ya all the dirt and you know it's all true because you know I don't lie. I don't know what more proof people need than what it is they should be able to see with their own two eyes. If I made an appearance on the news and told you the same thing would you understand me then?

The people who sell the pills, Pepsi, and Doritos are not out to kill you. This is a true statement. However, they are out to make you sick and addicted to drugs AND their Pepsi and Doritos, which will all kill you. They'd like to keep you around as long as they can to consume their products, but they do not want you healthy. Healthy people such as myself do not consume their products which means they don't get any money from me which means I may as well be dead to them. These are the evil companies Dan! The "legit" drug companies and the companies that feed you all this shite food! This is not propaganda, this is fact! It's known, it's proven! But it's OK? Why? Because they have commercials and just about everyone you know uses these things? Is that what makes it OK to consume things that alter your reality in a negative way, make you a disgusting person physically, and shorten your life on this planet? Those things are OK but a plant that has ZERO NEGATIVE EFFECTS is not OK? Not only does this plant have no negative side effects it also has MEDICAL BENEFITS! So, not only is it NOT a negative, it is actually a POSITIVE substance! But it's not OK? Because....? of the stigma? Which everyone has been fed? Which is bullshit?

I'll take you out Friday Danny boy. I'll smoke a joint (not that I would ever condone such immoral activities) for every drink of legal alcohol you have and we'll go all night and let's watch what happens. I'll pay for everything, you just gotta show up hun. ;)

[ironchop]

Yeah i know......so whats your view on the subject ? No disrespect but if i wanted to hear self promotion i`d go on facefack or twatter .

Lay off the Haterade, cupcake. Not everyone is your enemy. Makes you look weak.

to answer your question and state the already obvious, I don`t agree with any more intrusion into my life and especially by a bunch of socially retarded and out-of-touch "representatives" covering for what has become nothing more than revenue generation for The Machine. The documentary just reinforces everything I already feel.

around here, law enforcement spends almost ALL it`s resources on marijuana "eradication" while they rely on the "stumble upon" method of meth "eradication. To our local boys in blue, Pot is like dollar signs. People who get busted growing, smoking, holding, selling weed will pay thru the nose to get out of trouble just like a drunk driver. Money is what they are after ultimately. Public safety isn`t the goal.

Prohibition NEVER works......after almost a hundred years of failed drug prohibition and failed alcohol Prohibition, our "leaders" can`t be this stupid or narrow-minded at this point. Every time I hear the word "ban", I just automatically assume the person speaking that word is pretty much ignorant or maybe just incapable of thinking outside the hamster wheel. If humans are willing to break the law then what? Mandatory minimums? Take away your voting rights? Keep you from purchasing guns? Been there tried that.

As long as people still think that the way to shape human behavior is to ban the behavior, we haven't learned a thing. All the things that addicts do that is considered bad behavior is already illegal. Murder, rape, theft, fraud, burglary. There are already laws in place to protect folks from the bad behavior that comes from some drug and alcohol abusers. Banning drugs or alcohol in order to keep people from robbing, raping, and murdering is like walking into your childs room, taking all is toys away, and line the walls with eggshell foam so that he doesn`t hit his sister over the head with a Tonka truck or trip over a Lego sculpture and bust his nose. You are trying to teach your child to stop hitting his sister and to keep his stuff picked up. Taking away his stuff because he can`t be trusted doesn`t teach him self-control or personal responsibility at all. It teaches you that you can`t be expected to be responsible for your own actions and that`s why there are people out there who will come and save you from disaster

[ironchop]

. Did you watch the doc ?

yup. took me a couple sittings due to bad wifi at the house but I couldn`t find it on Netflix at seester`s house so I watched it on Disclose TV (a personal favorite site) for free.

I had seen Graham Hancock`s War on Consciousness speech he did for TEDX that they pulled and wouldn`t air and I really didn`t realize how far anti-pot folks were willing to go to keep prohibition in place and just how deep the pot hatred ran until then. I lost all respect for Ted Talks after that. Unbiased my ass.

[atc007]

I tried 10 minutes on disclose,, no dice, I think it's a Google chrome thing.. Will look on netflix sometime.

[ironchop]

here`s some relevant Hancock:


https://youtu.be/-b6-0yW7Iaw

[fabiodriven]

As you were boys. Doug that is absolutely fantastic and a great addition to this thread. I'd say watching what Doug has posted is just about equal in importance to watch. Roll with it!

Dan I was in deep thought about our most recent posts while at the gym and there were a couple of things that went through my mind. First of all, the opposition was in the video. They were the very people you were laughing at. Were you expecting an opposition that had firm ground to stand on? Or is that the kind of opposition you would like to see? If you or anyone else would like to post something by the opposition that shows they have any firm ground to stand on, by all means. Any good points, any evidence, anything at all.

There is a screen in most people's minds that they've allowed to be installed and it seems to allow certain information in and blocks anything to the contrary. When you have an unjust prohibition of a plant such as this case, you immediately associate all of the law breaking people dealing with this plant. There are so many of them, such bad people making such poor decisions, correct? They're incarcerated or on house arrest or just getting PC-ed and paying fines, you see it all the time. Now remove that screen from your head. If your own mind will allow you, try to wrap the thought of the possibility of that law being wrong and unjust, not the substance the law is about. You see, I, as well as many like minded people all over the planet, are of the belief that the law is wrong, not the plant in question. So if you can suspend disbelief and realize for a moment that the law is what is incorrect and not the plant, then why are all of these people in trouble that deal with this plant? They are in trouble because of an unjust law, not their actions due to their usage of the plant.

The most common drug found at murder scenes- alcohol.

Scores of people killed by drunk drivers every day.

Millions suffering from alcoholism and killing themselves while making those around them suffer.

I don't feel I need to continue this list because everyone reading this knows we could start an entirely new thread based on that subject. When was the last time there was a big murder scene by people in a "pot rage"? I'm not talking about people forced to operate outside of an unjust law to buy/sell the plant itself, I'm talking about stoners that hit the gravity bong too many times and starting killing each other, or anyone else really?

Toking and driving deaths? Big pot smoking pileups?

Just being injured or killed by the substance in general? Pot doesn't harm the human body so that's null and void. Even the smoke itself isn't nearly as bad for people as most seem to think.

So is the plant really that dangerous? Do those who deal in it deserve to be locked away from society or persecuted for their actions? What are the actions, aside from breaking an unjust law, that need addressing in such a dire fashion? What is it that these people are doing that is so wrong?

When people stop asking if a law or if rules are unfair or unjust they are defeated. They are slaves to the machine. How much respect does a person get who goes with the flow all the time and does every little thing they're told? Why does someone who moves the right way against the grain gain respect? Because they deserve it, that's why. It takes leaders and those willing to stand up and say something is wrong instead of playing along with someone else's game.

[ironchop]

Besides the marijuana issues, the documentary morphs into a 'Bigger Picture' type discussion after the first hour so for those who disagree on Weed, there`s a lot more to the film than justifying recreational use of this substance. Really it`s much bigger than the subject of weed legalization. The War on Drugs is exposed as a tool for huge profits and for justifying a more controlling yet out-of-control police state which is something BOTH sides of the aisle agree on not to mention an expose' on media tomfoolery for profit so that maybe people can understand just how and why the message gets so twisted, hidden form view, or made up out of thin air.

There`s just a lot more to it than weed

The part with that 7yr old addicted to Benzos while cannabis oil was the only proven treatment was heartbreaking to watch. I don`t get choked up too easy but I felt ashamed that such simple and natural treatments are being ignored in favor of the Pharma profits.....and Corporate Corrections? WTF is all I can say.

Honestly this film has so many subtopics that we could discuss its almost too much for one thread....we should still try though. hahaha

[redsox]

WOW. I had to go back and read my own post, because i thought i was in the twilight zone. I don't know how i became the opposition here.

my first line - "watched it. thought it was really good." Maybe you missed that.


I feel as though part of your mind is still stuck with the prohibition. The efforts, the time, the money this country has spent in the prohibition of this plant did not go to waste. They have drilled into people's heads this stigma, as Glamy says, that there is something inherently sinister about this plant. I can assure you if it's something you are into it is completely harmless.

maybe you missed this also "For the record, I'm 100% for open market legalization."




You don't want to take Artists such as Snoop Dog and B Real for their word on this subject? On the subject of marijuana? I listen to Snoop and Cypress Hill in moderation, but even if I didn't they, as well as the other artists you named, are at the pinnacle of their profession which is a very, very hard position to ascertain. They have all dealt with marijuana and consumed it in vast quantities over your experience and they are a voice of the people. If you choose not to partake in the art they express that's up to you, but you are not going to dismiss who these people are and why they were interviewed..

I've seen cypress hill in concert twice. I have two snoop cd's. (ya, CD's,) What difference does that make, and what does it have to do with my point? I didnt disrespect them as artists. I didnt criticize their craft. I certainly didn't disagree with what they said, or their point of view. If you read what I wrote, you'd know that I said that the documentary would be taken more seriously if they didnt rely so heavily on rappers. You don't think thats a valid assessment? When was the D O double G last published in the New England Journal of Medicine? I'm not dumpin on them. Theyre rappers. Not scholars. (more to come on the scholars) Why so many rappers in this documantary? Why not a rapper, a truck driver, a basketball player, a fisherman, a banker,,,,etc,etc...?


As Glamy stated, THERE WERE PLENTY OF PROFESSORS AND SCIENTISTS PRESENTED WHO SHARED THEIR OPINIONS AS WELL. I want to ask you Dan, why it is you chose to ignore the fact that so many people with such high credentials were omitted from your review when the three "thugs" were your focus? And what is it any of them have done to deserve such a negative undertone? Do you have any idea how much Snoop Dog participates in his community? These are all very serious questions I'd like to add. This stigma and agenda is pushed so hard and has been so solid for so long, it seems people such as yourself might never rid your minds of this propaganda that has been fed you. You're smarter than that Dan, I know that for a fact...

True, i am wicked smaht. But slow the hate. I liked the scientists and scholars. I LIKED THE DAMN MOVIE!! They were ommited in my review because i pointed out what i didnt like, not what i did like. From the tone of your opening post, I assumed you wanted critical thinking. Thats what you got. I noticed quotation marks around the word thugs. Who'd you quote, John? Not me, I hope. My point, for the sake of clarity, is get rid of the rappers, add some respectible decenting opinion, and your point is more well made. Are you telling me that the makers of this film couldnt find one medical doctor to warn against children using marijuana??? They wanted star-power. When I debate, (if i'm right,) i hope my oponent brings their A-Game. Thats how the truth is reached. I stand on the truth and let it speak for itself.




The reason why the video may have appeared to be slanted to you Dan, is because it is. The truth in this case is so overwhelmingly evident, obvious, and unarguable that there isn't anyone to argue! They showed you clearly anyone who attempted to make a point, IN PUBLIC HEARINGS, people from the tops of their fields against this plant, those with the "A game", those who have access to any and all information as to why this plant is so hazardous and could bring the best counter-argument possible to the table, and you saw the same thing I did bud. You saw them cower, you saw them crumble, you saw them stutter, and the video explained why that is....

Ask yourself this, John. Were the clips of those in the decenting opinion the best the prohibition movement had to offer, or the clips that made them look as bad as possible? If the argument is valid (and i think your argument is) then why not fight the best opponent?

In closing,and for the sake of brevity, I also detest liars. Prescription drugs are often a curse. Politics and Law Enforcement don't mix. I don't know if I understand the definition of "an evil company". You smoke and I drink? I'd be a little more inclined to take you up on the offer before you dropped the "hun." I'll let it slide, but i draw the line at a knee-rub. It didnt fly as an altar boy and i'll be damned if i change course now. I think your looking to argue with someone. I ain't the guy. Not because i dont like to argue, but because i don't disagree with you. Unless your argument is that the movie was perfect. Then, i guess i do disagree.

Glamy, if i don't get a rando song quote out of you then i'm losing my touch.

[fabiodriven]

Dan, you are mistaking my passion for an attack. For this I apologize and I can see why you would take it that way, but I assure I am not against you. I read every word you wrote and again I will thank you. I am going to adjust my tone but please don't take my intent as an attack on you.

My frustration stems from most people's inability to see through the screen that has been put in front of our eyes. This frustrates me especially with someone such as yourself as I could tell the first time we hung out that your head is on right. You don't see that every day. I will attempt to now show you what it is I mean without sounding as if you were my opposition.


If you read what I wrote, you'd know that I said that the documentary would be taken more seriously if they didnt rely so heavily on rappers. You don't think thats a valid assessment? When was the D O double G last published in the New England Journal of Medicine? I'm not dumpin on them. Theyre rappers. Not scholars. (more to come on the scholars) Why so many rappers in this documantary? Why not a rapper, a truck driver, a basketball player, a fisherman, a banker,,,,etc,etc...?

Snoop doesn't need to be published in any medical journals to have experience and an opinion. He is a celebrity and a voice for many people. There are rappers in the video as well as scholars, quite a few scholars, and everyone in between. That's the point. It's something everyone has in common. I don't need to tell you that people from all walks of life use marijuana. You could ask people in real life all day, they don't have to be in a movie. They already know it, as do I, as do you. It's discussed fairly openly for the most part. I don't hide my feelings most times, but sometimes unfortunately I have to. If you still don't understand why Snoop and Cypress Hill would be in a movie dealing with this subject I don't know what to tell you, lol.




True, i am wicked smaht. But slow the hate. I liked the scientists and scholars. I LIKED THE DAMN MOVIE!! They were ommited in my review because i pointed out what i didnt like, not what i did like. From the tone of your opening post, I assumed you wanted critical thinking. Thats what you got. I noticed quotation marks around the word thugs. Who'd you quote, John? Not me, I hope. My point, for the sake of clarity, is get rid of the rappers, add some respectible decenting opinion, and your point is more well made. Are you telling me that the makers of this film couldnt find one medical doctor to warn against children using marijuana??? They wanted star-power. When I debate, (if i'm right,) i hope my oponent brings their A-Game. Thats how the truth is reached. I stand on the truth and let it speak for itself.


Dan there is no hate here at all. I hate nobody and nothing, particularly not you my friend. What I find frustrating, again, is that the first thing many people see when given this information is a reason to dismiss or to degrade rather than listening to the words of some very smart men and women who are flat out teaching the recent findings of what this plant can, will, won't, and can't do. Why is it so much easier for people to say "well it woulda been better if" or find some reason not to be amazed by what recent studies of this plant have shown?

Dan again I'm sorry my points came across strong, they did. Don't get all bent about the "hun" thing, lol. I've been saying that more often for a chuckle but obviously you didn't know that.

[ironchop]

LMAO.... "True, I am wicked smaht" .......I busted a testicle laughing when I read this, Redsox. Bravo and a tip of muh hat to you, sir.

[ironchop]

the documentary would be taken more seriously if they didnt rely so heavily on rappers. You don't think thats a valid assessment? When was the D O double G last published in the New England Journal of Medicine? I'm not dumpin on them. Theyre rappers. Not scholars. (more to come on the scholars) Why so many rappers in this documantary? Why not a rapper, a truck driver, a basketball player, a fisherman, a banker,,,,etc,etc...?.

I agree with this statement.....Credibility is the only way to get people to open their ears. Rappers offer a cool cred but the Street already knows the secret about weed. It`s the folks who don`t know that being stoned doesn't make you mental or a murderer or a rapist who have to be convinced to give a moment of their time and be open to some education


When was the D O double G last published in the New England Journal of Medicine?...

your post is full of gems......this one should be your new signature

[fabiodriven]

Yup that ranting was directed too much towards you Dan, again I apologize. That wasn't my intention. This is an issue I'd like to be able to tackle on a higher plateau at some point and a little debating hones the skills and causes knowledge. It teaches. In this case I'm learning how better to convey my message unfortunately by offending you. It's surprising to me because I've been pretty much zen-like lately.

[redsox]

i think people are on board with the movement, John. More than i ever thought i'd see in my lifetime. Let not your heart be troubled, my friend. The sticky-icky will be widely available, legally, very soon. But, be warned. That shizz will come from a corporation. The rich will control it. The government will profit from it. That is the way of things. The magic of the internet ain't changing that. Someday you'll look back fondly on the days when you grabbed a lil' bit from a trusted confidant. Not just like a trip to the packy.

Chop,, thanks for the support. Also, its true, ask around.

[fabiodriven]

Well there was some really good stuff in here but I feel as though I've ruined the point so I'm going to delete. You guys can read it for tonight I guess, haha. Learning and evolving...

[sledcrazyinCT]

Yeah........i got a little Jergens on the keyboard bra ! You don`t download jack shaat.......you stream !.......the excuses crack me up !.........does your girlfriend have nice feet ?


Google chrome sucks or my government supplied reefer just kicks my azz. Must be both right Sandankus?:postwhore

Try and make sense sometimes. Glad the free link works I changed my earlier post. Watching it right now.

[ironchop]

Well there was some really good stuff in here but I feel as though I've ruined the point so I'm going to delete. You guys can read it for tonight I guess, haha. Learning and evolving...

NO.....you'll ruin the continuity.

I misunderstand Redsox sometimes too and Glamy speaks a different language and I only understand Hillbilly sooooooo........My problem is sometimes I feel like there are only twelve people on the planet paying any kind of attention so when I run into someone else who is, Im too busy flapping my gums to understand Im trying to teach shoe-tying to a rocket scientist and I should just STFU...lol

anyway, I like to think of misunderstandings as more an opportunity for everyone to clarify their responses which is what happens when good debaters defend their opinions rather than mulletheads who just argue for ego sake. Good thing we got good debaters on here. Just leave it all up. It`s good that way.

[redsox]

one thing i didn't touch on is the mention of mexico. calling it "the wild west" would be a gross understatement. Weed is the national export, and has been for decades. If it were legal here tomorrow the economy of mexico would collapse. There are those in the prohibition camp that point to the MASSIVE death toll down there as a result of marijuana. its not, IMO. its a result of prohibition of marijuana. But whatever its a result of, its crazy bad. There are billions of dollars a year getting pumped into mexico and those controlling that money are willing and able to kill for it. I'm not talking about a slow, dorito-a-day, heart disease death. i'm talking tape you to a fence post and chainsaw you slowly apart death. If you were looking to point the finger at "evil", point it south. Which brings me to my next point. If the cartels of mexico profit the most from marijuana, (and they do, exponentially) do you think they're going to be ready and willing to give up 80% of that profit in the name of legalization? These are people that murder their own families in the streets over control. How smoothly will they transition to FDA oversight?

Another question. What is this inevitable legalization going to do to the price?? the cost of weed is low. Compare it to other crops. Its untaxed and unregulated. Sure, the cost is driven up by risk. I understand how prohibition drives up price. But is weed really that prohibited? The film talks about availability. Its true. Anyone that wants weed can get it. Its everywhere. Supply is tremendously high and cost is low. The supply networks are effective and efficient. There are no union issues. There are no patent lawsuits. There is no HR department, shareholder meetings, corporate junkets, or company picnic expenses. From an economic standpoint, its pure, beautiful, unregulated capitalism and it runs like a Honda. If you don't think that the government is going to mess that all up, then you haven't seen the post office's bottom line. It will become a corporately run, ULTRA-regulated mess. Whats that going to do to the consumer? Every political movement has unintended side effects. Right now, weed is available and affordable to every social class. Will that be so in the future? Or will the unintended side effect be that the cost of regulation turns weed into a luxury item available to only the middle and upper class?

[Scootertrash]

C'mon now! Don't be bringin' common sense into this!! Yer just a slave to the machine!!

Goin out to get my fire retardant suit ready before I post my take on this "documentary"

[redsox]

C'mon now! Don't be bringin' common sense into this!! Yer just a slave to the machine!!

Goin out to get my fire retardant suit ready before I post my take on this "documentary"

I'm excited to hear it! Bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay!

[ironchop]

I was stunned by the statement that every 19 minutes someone dies of prescription drug OD.

I have more than one friend currently battling script drug problems and they had NEVER used illicits past or present. They all thought they were safe as did I. I`m gonna research a lot more into my prescription meds and start having real conversations with my doctors. My pharmacist is a personal friend and he confirmed that even pharmacists get money from drug companies for "promotion"....and yes, it` paid in cash.....ask yourself "why cash?" ....makes it seem even shadier IMO.

[sledcrazyinCT]

Just because the Feds have the wrong stance on pot at least on the state and local level there are civil servants who realize there is value in decriminalization. Sick people benefit, prisons aren't over capacity with recreational users, and best of all it is a great source of tax revenue!


Who else is a member of NORML? For the record I have been against big govt since the 80's and their unnecessary war on pot. I customized my high school baseball cap with 'Just say NO to NANCY' (Reagan) and never had any school official or my coach bust my chops about it.

213018



Complaining on a forum or taking 'we are already defeated' attitude is never going to amount to a hill of beans. It truly saddens me to read in various other threads how some forum members feel there is no turning back the decline in our country. Wrong attitude entirely! It sure isn't going to improve when good people do nothing but whine, trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro and moan among themselves.
Civil servants can be replaced so long as enough people vote them out. I sure wish the POTUS would executive order legalization before the door slams on his ass.

IMO this country would thrive with marijuana being legit! So many industries would flourish as entrepreneurs could legally focus on the miracle weed that grows just about anywhere on this planet.

[ironchop]

....Michele Leonhart (DEA administrator) could`nt say what her budget was !!......oh 2 or 3 million......i mean BILLION :crazy::crazy: are you foggen kidding me ? And then she was asked weather methamphetamine was more dangerous then marijuana and she could`nt (more like would`nt) answer the foggen question ! Now her position in gov. probably pays IDK maybe 300k or 500k or 750k of our tax dollars !.......


yeah that was uncomfortable for me to watch.....not because stupid people make me uncomfortable but because KNOWING that if I was that inept at my job, I would be FIRED. As a matter of fact, Congress and all the ABC departments seem to be the dumping ground for the worst employees in this nation`s history. Would ANYONE trust these people to run their donut shop? So WHY do they trust them to run a COUNTRY.

As for voting and whatnot, we have to fundamentally change the way people think before we can change the way they vote or get them to vote at all. Democracy is akin to Mob Rule once you remove the "informed" part from the "informed voter". What we have now are a bunch of misdirected and ignorant people using the system as a means to push ignorant and ill-informed policies on everyone without any concession or forethought.....that`s Mob Rule

Americans aren`t raised with any worthy values anymore.....No tact, No consideration, No Honor, No Integrity, No Grit, No Perseverance, No higher thinking whatsoever. We value social status as determined by wealth, appearance, Pop culture popularity. Our "values" are maintaining our Facepork popularity....Twittering our "profound thoughts" on fashion, Holywood, and Materialism...or pretending to be an Online Social Justice Warrior.

Look how our Culture focuses all it`s energy on Individualism. We have made little entitled monsters out of ourselves...."wear what you want!" "eat as much as you want!" "say whatever you want!" "have sex with as many people as you want as many times as you want!" "It`s your right to have your way!"

These are the WRONG kinds of Individual Liberties

As for virtue, all one has to do is come out of the closet on Twitter and they are instantly "Brave!"

Scared you`re gonna get cancer so you had your bewbs lopped off or your ovaries removed beforehand? "Brave!"

Speak out against racism even though 98% of Americans hate the exact same thing? "Brave!"

Wear cute tennis shoes while defending abortion rights in a room full of neutered and harmless Texas Congressmen? "Brave!"

Single Mother? "Brave!"

DO I have a whole cadre of twatter followers (online stalkers)? "Honorable!.....and Brave!"

Blows me away how easy one can be Brave and Honorable in this day and age....it`s pathetic really to lump those people into the same category as the guy who ran into a burning house to save a child or the woman who shielded her own students from a hail of gunfre in a classroom.

Look at your leaders....look at your idols.....look at the people you think you admire and ask yourself what virtues these people really possess.

these are the so-called values......when we use popularity contests in our daily lives as a way to judge others and mostly how we judge ourselves, it bleeds over into ALL the decisions we make. My oldest daughter wants to vote for Hillary....why? "because she`s a woman"......I knew white and black people who voted for Obama solely because he was Black (which is textbook racism).....and I suspect the rest did so because he was black and a democrat...you can`t say it`s because of his record of leadership....he didn`t HAVE a record....he`s never led shYt!.....but they voted for him anyway.....Bill Clinton played sax, didn`t inhale, and wanted you to Rock the Vote so he`s cool and subsequently got elected.

Until we expect......no, DEMAND better of ourselves and we use real values as a measure of our own lives, will we ever measure our leaders in any other fashion that the Facepork method of social ranking.....which is a digital version of Highschool.

Our leadership is a direct reflection of the state of our culture and our Nation is built upon that culture. If you want to change the way people decide who guards the Hen House, first you have to find some worthy guards. The only way to ensure this is sustainable is if we all demand higher standards for ourselves and we raise our kids with those same standards and we make these virtues part of our Culture again.

I also think it isn`t about intelligence....Lots of intelligent people have no real critical thinking skills when it comes to interacting with other humans and therefore will pick a Swarzeneger or a Kardashian to make their decisions for them. A dolt will vote for whoever they idolize....our National Elections are an extension of Prom King and Queen elections and as a result, we get buffoonery. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Americans are de-evolving into children faster than ever.

Rome will fall soon enough. Decadence always has a way of ruining greatness.

[redsox]

Almost 1000 views and only 5 or 6 people commented .......thats what i despise ....

how many people watched it, ya think?



Michele Leonhart (DEA administrator) could`nt say what her budget was !!......oh 2 or 3 million......i mean BILLION :crazy::crazy: are you foggen kidding me ? And then she was asked weather methamphetamine was more dangerous then marijuana and she could`nt (more like would`nt) answer the foggen question ! Now her position in gov. probably pays IDK maybe 300k or 500k or 750k of our tax dollars !.......AND YOU DON`T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT ?

she's a waste product. a puppet. she can't lie (technically) and politics will not allow her to tell the truth, so she stumbles through, takes her beating and looks like a buffoon. You can't mix politics and law enforcement. The framers saw this and thats why the third branch. but the world is small now, and the branches are intertwined. Everyone at the top is towing a company line to stay at the top. They towed it to get there, and they'll tow it to stay there. "Why?" you ask. Because there is no way she's making over 300k a year. I'd say 300 is a good estimate. But if she takes her licks, tows the line, she'll get a kiss on the way out. maybe an advisors job or something. private sector, for 2 mil a year. Because she deserves it, for not messing things up.



Complaining on a forum or taking 'we are already defeated' attitude is never going to amount to a hill of beans. It truly saddens me to read in various other threads how some forum members feel there is no turning back the decline in our country. Wrong attitude entirely! It sure isn't going to improve when good people do nothing but whine, trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro and moan among themselves.
Civil servants can be replaced so long as enough people vote them out. I sure wish the POTUS would executive order legalization before the door slams on his ass.

IMO this country would thrive with marijuana being legit! So many industries would flourish as entrepreneurs could legally focus on the miracle weed that grows just about anywhere on this planet.

money is the only thing changing anything. not votes, or obama, or grass-roots hippie bullshite,,, CASH!! Cash in the lobby. Industry. Capitalism. CASH. People are realizing the $ involved in weed. When those in power stand to make more from legal weed than illegal weed, things will change. We're at that point now. the scales have tipped. So the bald guy with the mullet and the grateful dead shirt standing on the washington mall for the last 35 years with a sign can feel like he changed the world, but it wasn't really him. it was money.


Chop, i'm surprised it's not more than every 19 seconds, or whatever the stat was. Massachusetts addicts are dropping like flies. like 30 a week fatal OD's. Hundreds and hundreds non-fatal. crazy crazy.

[ironchop]

how many people watched it, ya think?.

4....not counting Fabio

I watched it twice....the second time, I set my 20 yr old son down in the living room and we watched it together. I sent the link to my wife and she watched half last night but out of the twenty or so cellphone contacts I sent the link to, I bet maybe one person watched it all the way through.

[Scootertrash]

Pull up a chair boys

The written word can sometimes be misunderstood and/or misconstrued due to the lack of the audiovisual input experienced in personal conversation, I want everyone to know that none of my comments are meant as a personal attack on Fabio or any of the other posters in this thread, so let’s save the knotted panties and sandy vajayjays for another thread. My main b!tch is how this is presented. A “debate” has two view points, not just one.
“Some people claim to want to hear others views, but are shocked and offended to discover there are other views”- Shenanigunz on AR15.com

First off, I graduated High School in 1978. I partied with the best of 'em from oh, '75 or so to around 2000. I'm not going to go into detail, but suffice to say I'm not an outsider when it comes to these topics.
I do find it interesting that a couple of guys believe so deeply that “The Machine” is out to get them, but yet they have no problem bragging about illegal drug use on a public forum easily monitored by ”The Machine”. To each his own, I guess.
Before I get started, I'm going to put an important part of my sig line up here. I truly believe this quote and stand behind it not only for others, but for myself as well, because one should never hold another to a higher standard than they hold themselves, right?

There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. - P.J. O'Rourke

Keep this in mind as you read thru my comments

I believe than in a free country an adult should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn’t negatively affect others.

I don't take any prescription drugs, hell I rarely take an aspirin, tylenol or ibuprofen, because, quite honestly, they don't seem to do anything for me. So as far as the notion that I’m under the control of the Big Gov/Big Pharma/Doctor drug dealer, pill induced zombie state and believe anything I’m fed by any of the three? Not so much.

I’m well aware of the slant that exists in today’s media. Just because they publish or broadcast it doesn’t mean I believe everything I watch or read.

I do read a bit of birdcage material (newpaper), mainly to kill time and keep tabs on the enemy, the mainstream media. Ignoring it doesn’t make it go away.

I watch very little TV. The couple of shows I do watch, I understand that they are TV shows not necessarily real, even if they are “based” on actual events and the names have been changed to protect the innocent.

If you think that any of the reality shows are actually real and not scripted, I’ve got some lakeside proper in Death Valley I’d like to sell ya.

My wife suffers from MS and I have a grand nephew with autism. If one or both could benefit from medicinal marijuana I would be ecstatic

The war on drugs is a waste of money and resources, but if you think legalizing pot will somehow make the cartels, gangs and associated violence disappear, we need to talk about the property I mentioned above. ;)

Does marijuana have legitimate medicinal qualities? I'm not an expert, but I don't see why not, every other drug is based from other naturally occurring sources. I do know that it can help alleviate headaches and nausea.

Should marijuana be legal for medicinal use? Yup, no doubt.

Should marijuana be legal for recreational use? Sure, why not?. BUT, I'm not going to try to claim it's any better or worse for you than alcohol. Just like some can drink and not have it negatively affect their lives, there are those that smoke pot and have it negatively affect their lives. I've seen it. Chemicals affect different people differently. If you try to convince me otherwise I'll tell you you're full of sh!t. If there weren't chemicals in pot, even tho they're "natural", people wouldn't get buzzed, stoned, wasted, trashed, waxed, or whatever term you want to use, and we wouldn't be having this debate because people wouldn't want to use it recreationally now would they?

Because let's be honest, the majority want this to be legalized for recreational use, the medicinal part is just a sidebar used to prop up their cause.

Totally harmless? Considering that we're just scratching the surface on the positive aspects of the chemicals in MJ, I'm not going to believe that just yet. Since they are trying to project a positive image of medicinal MJ and a negative image of pharmaceuticals, do you really think they are going to list any negatives known to be caused by MJ? My first thought is: How healthy is it to be inhaling a bunch of smoke and holding it in your lungs as long as possible? Any type of smoke for that matter?

You want sympathy for people on any level who got caught with weed and got jail or prison time? Don't come to me. EVERYBODY knows it's illegal. You make the choice to participate in an illegal activity, no matter how stupid or unjust you think the laws are? You have no one to blame but yourself, you knew better. See my sig above.

So I burned a couple hours of my time watching this, truly hoping that it wouldn't turn out to be what I thought it would, and I was disappointed.

Does this documentary have a liberal progressive/leftist slant? Does a bear defecate in the forest?

The film makers are a bunch Liberal/Progressive/Eurosocialist Canadian and UK MEDIA up and comers.

The “Experts” are big time university professors and “scholars”. You won’t find a larger pool of Liberals/Progressives/Socialists than upper academia.

Oh, and let’s not forget! A former big time pot smuggler

The US MEDIA celebrities, a veritable who’s who of Liberal/Progressives:
Joe Rogan: The Young Turks (I’ll cover them in a bit) are pushing for Joe Rogan to be the Democratic presidential nominee for 2016.
After doing some research it appears that ol’ Joe supports a variety of other Liberal stances

“The Young Turks”
Cenk Kadir Uygur: Uygur is a Turkish-American columnist, political commentator and activist. Uygur is the main host and co-founder of the American liberal/progressive political and social internet commentary program, The Young Turks (TYT) and the co-Founder of the associated TYT Network. He worked as an attorney in Washington, D.C. and New York before beginning his career as a political commentator. Originally a moderate Republican, he is now a progressive.
Ana Kasparian: Kasparian was an assistant producer with CBS Radio news stations in Los Angeles, first with KFWB and then KNX.[6][7] She has also worked with AOL News, YouTube, TidalTv and On Point. After becoming a fill-in host in April 2007, Kasparian became the producer and co-host with Cenk Uygur of the progressive talk radio on Sirius XM Satellite Radio and internet show/TV show The Young Turks. She co-hosted TYT University, a show focused on issues faced by university students for some years, and now hosts another TYT Network show, The Point.

Rappers: Seriously? Who, as Fabio says, “are at the pinnacle of their profession which is a very, very hard position to ascertain” The profession of the music business? The epitome of excess? Sex, Drugs and rock and roll?
And since when are celebrities, rock stars, movies stars, et al the “voice of the people”? Fabio: have you personally contacted D-o-double g or Queefa or whatever his name is and told them to speak for you? I know I haven’t.

ETA: Apparently the "Dogg" has reinvented hisself and is now "Snoop Lion"

You want wealthy celebrities to speak for you, but you just said:

I'd rather have my own voice and thoughts.

Or is it because they are wealthy celebrities with tight connections to the wealthy politicians and even more wealthy political donors who control the “Machine” that you so despise and want to be free from its control, BUT NEED THAT MACHINE to approve your drug of choice?


I feel that TV and radio are made to program people and make them feel what it is the machine wants you to feel. I feel as though this is fact because I have removed TV and radio from my life almost completely, therefor I have noticed how people regurgitate what it is they see on the TV and hear on radio.

But yet here you are regurgitating what you see in an independent film, which is just another arm of TV/Radio/MEDIA?

Multiple shots at Fox News. Oh sure, they threw a dart or 2 at Obama and the unions that support the medical/pharmaceutical industry, but that’s only so they can legitimize their attacks on the right when someone calls them on it: OH!, no, nooo we took the president and the unions to task too! :rolleyes: Whatever.

That and they’re pissed that Obama said one thing and did another. A politician that lied! OMGWTFBBQ!!

Bringing children into it: (Don’t bother trying to accuse me of being insensitive to the plight of handicapped children. If you knew me you’d know better. In addition, it’s just another Liberal/Progressive tactic to demonize anyone who questions this practice.)

This is a standard practice by the left. “It’s for the children”. Health care, education, global warm….errr climate change, gun control, minimum wage, you name it….”It’s for the children”
Why? Because it evokes emotion. I feel just as bad for the kids who suffer as anyone else. If you have good solid evidence and proof that something works to cure serious ailments, the side effects of chemo, etc, just show me the evidence. If you have good, solid research that something works it will speak for itself. No need use children to try to sway my opinion or feelings.

Does the age of the handicapped or seriously ill individual really matter? Everybody deserves treatment to relieve pain and suffering.

Broad brushing of physicians: Every doctor is a profit motivated pill pusher? :rolleyes:

You criticize a machine ”that immerses and imposes its will on us”, but you require anyone who wants to participate in the thread to watch a one sided “debate” before they can post? Et tu?

I have no doubt that marijuana will eventually be legal for use medicinally and recreationally, BUT! If you think the “Machine” won’t control it you’re sadly mistaken.

Big Pharma has the facilities, money, equipment and “experts” to remove, process, and market the medicinally useful chemicals from MJ.

Big tobacco has the farms, facilities, money, equipment and expertise to process and market the recreational products produced from MJ

Big Brother will tax the hell out of it, because after all, isn’t that one of the arguments for legalization? ;)
They will also control the cultivation and sales of the recreational products, because we can’t have people evading the hemp tax now can we?
They will also control where it can be smoked just like tobacco.

As far as conspiracy theories go, how's about this?:

Since MJ contains chemicals that alter the mental state and;
Since everybody in this "Documentary" associates with the Democrat/Liberal/ Progressive side of our current government "Machine":

It appears that they would prefer that citizens be under the influence of naturally occurring mind altering substances to "create a culture that will grow to completely immerse us and impose its will upon us, and that will is to consume as much as possible from us to feed a machine that is built to consume as much as possible from us", and to use that altered state to use TV and radio "to program people and make them feel what it is the machine wants you to feel."

I know, crazy, huh?

I'm ready

213032

[Scootertrash]

"have sex with as many people as you want as many times as you want!"

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

You mean I spent 15 years of my life being a debaucherous, slutty, manwhore? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-shocked003.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)


Other than that, may I subscribe to your newsletter?

Your post is dead on.

[Scootertrash]

About saving people from script drugs......TFB they obviously subscribe to the Kevorkian theory which i believe should be their right ! Saving lives goes to a point of insanity ......witch is the way we`re heading ! I never wanted a seat belt law or helmet law i don`t care if insurance saves money......you think they care if you live or die BS !! Stop telling me what to do with your laws ! CULL the herd....fertilize your lawn......scott says FEED IT !


Umm, so are you saying to fertilize with the culls from the herd? And do we mix the culls with the herds manure or apply separately?

[Scootertrash]

she's a waste product. a puppet. she can't lie (technically) and politics will not allow her to tell the truth, so she stumbles through, takes her beating and looks like a buffoon. Everyone at the top is towing a company line to stay at the top. They towed it to get there, and they'll tow it to stay there. "Why?" you ask. Because there is no way she's making over 300k a year. I'd say 300 is a good estimate. But if she takes her licks, tows the line, she'll get a kiss on the way out. maybe an advisors job or something. private sector, for 2 mil a year. Because she deserves it, for not messing things up.

This is true for ALL politicians. I know you and some others know it, but had to state it anyway. ;)

You know that healthcare law the left wants to trot out as a success? Well It's not, contrary to what the mainstream media tells you. But hey,
we had to vote on it to see what's in it--Nancy Pelosi




money is the only thing changing anything. not votes, or obama, or grass-roots hippie bullshite,,, CASH!! Cash in the lobby. Industry. Capitalism. CASH. People are realizing the $ involved in weed. When those in power stand to make more from legal weed than illegal weed, things will change. We're at that point now. the scales have tipped.




So the bald guy with the mullet

Say wut?

[redsox]

Say wut?


Ever seen Gallagher? the guy with the watermelons? him.


And don't bad mouth Rogen. He's a badarse. Masshole and Judo champion. I'd have a beer with him anytime, even if he does sip the koolaid.

[redsox]

Exactly my point scoot. All politicians. But she's not a politician, right? You're not insinuating that the head of the DEA has her finger in the political air, are you? There are those that make the policy and those that enforce the policy, right? The legislative branch makes the rules, don't they? And the judiciary,,, well, the judiciary, in their wisdom, they just follow the rules, right? They don't create law by decree, do they? Legislate from the bench??? Not in this almighty republic!! Laws are at the behest and by the will of the people! Gambling,,,, at Rik's!!!??!?!?! I'm shocked!

[ironchop]

Scooter you touched on a point I forgot to make.

I was really surprised to see so many Obama lovers in the film start throwing him under the bus when he had their unprecedented support in BOTH elections. There is quite a bit of hypocrisy in the cast. I was waiting for Noam Chomsky to show up and start claiming Obama was a dirty Marxist. A lot of the Pot calling the Kettle Black.

Will these same people who are disgusted with their party follow the party line next election? Probably. Don`t want anyone wasting their vote or ensuring the Other Side wins by actually voting for someone NEW and uncorrupted. And the cycle continues.

While the claim of media bias is true, these people (especially Cenk) have enjoyed many a fat paycheck at the hands of the "slanted media"......He was part of the slant! Now Cenk has had some moments of clarity where his opinion did run outside of acceptable Left Doctrine but I also sometimes wholly agree with Nationalists, Fascists, Anarcho-communists, and Libertarians both Left and Right. However, I don`t want any of them to have their idea of utopian governing come to fruition because frankly, they all are too rigid and egotistical when Reality is that there is no black and white. It would be nice if everything in life fits neatly into one box or the other but it doesn't. Whole lot of grey area goin on and as long as there`s grey area, I think our leadership could stand to be a little less rigid as well.

Can ANYONE in this forum honestly say that the political party you voted for (IF it was one of the two main parties) actually represent every single thing you believe in without deviation? Most people can`t say that and a very large number of Americans are technically "in the middle" with neither side making up the whole of their own personal ideology. Knowing this why do people vote one side or the other and why should we have to?

Who needs labels anyway? Hypocrits need labels...else who the hell can tell what you`re voting for if not for a convenient label to help dispel your valid confusion?

On Fox news bashing....who isn`t used to it by now? It has become so cliché to make snide Fox News jokes or slam them for their slant it`s almost like being called a priveledged white racist sexist homophobe.....so what? I can dislike whoever I want and thanks to the overuse and misunderstanding of the definition, it has lost all meaning whatsoever. One thing about Rogan, Snoop (the anti-gun ex gangster?!?), and Cenk is that they don`t mind if the slant is Left leaning, only if it`s Right leaning. The only time they actually did portend to be disappointed in the obvious and institutional bias is when it threatened their right to blaze a fatty........you made some excellent points, for sure.

Ann Coulter? could they have found a more out-of-touch neocon mouthpiece than that idiot? Actually Ann ISN`T an idiot. It`s the idiot things she says. That's why when she says things like "my taxes blah blah for dope smokers blah blah" I scoff. She doesn`t believe what she is saying anymore than I do. She has a role to play, like glenn beck and she plays it well.

Read her books, seen her on television.....not impressed....she reminds me of Mitt Romney with a pretty face and breasts.

When I saw a shot of Glenn Beck, I thought "oh hell, whats he got to say?". Used to watch his show, bought his books but he had a secret breakdown and suddenly wants to play soccer with immigrants he detested just 25 minutes ago.......because Neocon Beck likes to dip on both sides of the fence....like Cruz....and now Rand Paul....suddenly, these guys are on board with unchecked immigration, gay marriage, debt ceiling increase, Obamacare, Climate Change and whatever else Twitter tells them to believe in. I`m tired of being openly sold out for popularity. What the hell can you get behind these days? Who knows but know that within a few months your mission statement will resemble the exact opposite of what you wanted.

You are right when you said BOTH sides are full of shyte...and I`ve learned not to trust either one. My son was blown away when I told him Democrats in the 60-70s were not interested in Civil Rights at all and that it was a Republican thing. He said "when and why did Republicans become racists then?"....I said "As soon as Democrats began calling them racists"......theres an interesting LBJ quote I will leave off this thread for a couple of reasons but those who know it know what I am talking about and it demonstrates that both sides merely ride popular opinion and milk it for votes and what they claim to believe in is for sale or trade to the highest bidder/ best package deal.

What I took away from it was this....despite a possible slant and some cheap shots slung at both sides, I already felt the very same things this film discussed and therefore I won`t attribute these views as those of Progressivism/ Liberalism but rather the views of like-minded individuals.

edit to add: You also pointed out the institutionalized slant in Acedemia and I also agree there. It does tend to bring some credibility questions to the surface for sure considering our Universities have turned into satellite campus` for the Frankfort School. As for Graham Hancock, I`m not sure what his ideology is. I do know he has a nasty habit of pissing off both sides and so does Rogan which is why I respect him somewhat. I know of hancocks work mostly whereas it concerns his theories on human civilizations and outside influences on their development.

oddly, people on BOTH TEAMS seem to realize there is a whole lot of tyrannical BS happening but they remain loyal to their own kind much to their own detriment because BOTH TEAMS are guilty of this crap and because people don` like to realize they have put all their eggs in the asshole basket. Nobody likes to be wrong. All you have to do is be good at defending being wrong and that`s all that matters.

[Scootertrash]

Ever seen Gallagher? the guy with the watermelons? him.

I thought a mullet included hair on the top of the head tho?



And don't bad mouth Rogen. He's a badarse. Masshole and Judo champion. I'd have a beer with him anytime, even if he does sip the koolaid.

No badmouthing, just pointing out were his loyalties lie.

[ironchop]

Saving lives goes to a point of insanity ......witch is the way we`re heading !!

I love you for saying this.... in a totally gay man-love bromance kind of way....not the harmless guy handshake way but more of a full contact leg humping sort of way....just sayin

THIS is a whole other thread worth of debate on this topic. You should start one for real but wait a week so my brain can rest a bit.

I am so sick of the need to save everyone from themselves and from disease when they know damn good and well it`s unsustainable and will likely kill us all in the long run.

OOHHHH "raise awareness!"........"not everyone is aware that cancer kills people or that some men like to cross dress or that some people like to have sex with others of the same gender!" "we got to raise awareness!"......"raise money for cancer research!" "so that the Drug companies do not have to fund their own R&D and get to make pure profit!"

Isn`t it ironic that the same Party who wants to save everyone from bad stuff and death so they can live forever ALSO wants to save the Environment from all the humans who are destroying it? Talk about a conflict of interest!!

[Scootertrash]

BUT the doc. is not necessarily a debate

I agree to a point but........

Would not a documentary merely present the facts and opinion from their point of view?

From Wiki:
Others further state that a documentary stands out from the other types of non-fiction films for providing an opinion, and a specific message, along with the facts it presents.

They could have presented all three of the above criteria without pointing fingers at either political party or any media outlet.


There IS no reason to add a counter point

So I should blindly follow others beliefs without question?

I thought both Fabio and yourself were advocating not being "sheep" in this thread? Not letting "The Machine" be in control?



There is a fundamental difference of opinion thou


You are entitled to your own opinion and all are welcome from any direction.

Would you expect anything other?

The only difference of opinion I see is in the delivery of the message, not the message itself ;)

[Scootertrash]

Isn`t it ironic that the same Party who wants to save everyone from bad stuff and death so they can live forever ALSO wants to save the Environment from all the humans who are destroying it? Talk about a conflict of interest!!

I think YOU may have raised some awareness with this post!

I think I'm gonna jump on a 747 and head to New York for a 32 oz soda. But since I'm only allowed one 20 oz'er, I'll just buy a 2 liter bottle instead.......

[ironchop]

I think YOU may have raised some awareness with this post!

I think I'm gonna jump on a 747 and head to New York for a 32 oz soda. But since I'm only allowed one 20 oz'er, I'll just buy a 2 liter bottle instead.......

don`t let Bloomberg see you doin it!


The only difference of opinion I see is in the delivery of the message, not the message itself .......

Bingo. This is the way I took both you and Redsox`s posts. I didn`t think you were disagreeing with the message. You just voted "no confidence" in the cast.

Is this right?

[Scootertrash]

10-4 chop

Here is the key part of my post:

There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. - P.J. O'Rourke

I believe than in a free country an adult should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn’t negatively affect others.

[Scootertrash]

^^You say you want pot to be legalized but you contradict it later in the post so yeah you really don`t want it and you make excuses about chemicals in the plant......why you want to study it for another 50 yrs ? Take the Rebublickins and the Democraps and all the cute little labels and pound them ! I think we have tried things your way long enough........we need to send them all home without pay ! Thats a fundamental difference of opinion.....don`t you think ?.....or don`t you ?
My, my, my, aren't we a tightly wound little wookie tonight?

I'm not pounding anything there cream puff, so dial it back a notch. Or, how did it go? Lay off the Haterade?

Have another hit, there ya gooo, a nice big one. Sit back, reeelaaaaxx....hold it, hoooolllddd itttttt, ok EXHALE!

OK ya ready? I didn't contradict myself, I merely questioned the validity of the "no negative effects" claim. Seriously, what about that brown resin stained paper on a roach? Or the tarry, resin coated bowl or bowl and chamber on a chamber pipe? Or loading the chamber on a chamber pipe with a nice big bud to "catch" that resinous material? Before it what? Exits the pipe?

It doesn't take a Harvard scholar to figure out that there is a good chance that some of that ends up in your lungs. Is it good for you? Bad for you? The tar from cigarettes is supposed to be bad for you, is the "tar" from weed any different? Or is the cigarette tar is bad for you just another form of The Machine" feeding you what it wants you to hear?

You can take 5 different "brands" of weed and get 5 different highs? That tells me the chemical composition isn't consistent.

Mood altering chemicals affect different people differently, are you going to tell me that that isn't a fact? The truth? Or is it that it doesn't fit the "no negative effects" mantra and need to be quashed from the "discussion"?

You guys want to have a discussion involving the "truth", but someone brings up a valid point and they get shouted down? Told to pound whatever? You wonder why there's 1000 views and only 5 posters?

Is there actually a published study by a bipartisan group of "experts" (so that it's unbiased for both sides) of a cross section of people who exclusively smoked only weed, no tobacco, for oh, say 15 to 30 years, that proves there is no damage to lungs from pot smoke? I mean surely someone in the past 40 years or so of the push to legalize weed would have had the fore thought to make sure that there was no lung damage before they could make the claim that pot has "no negative effects" Right? Well?

You piss away the validity of a supposed "open" discussion where everyone's opinion is welcome, well, that is until they voice their opinion.


Some people claim to want to hear others views, but are shocked and offended when there are other views-Shenanigunz on AR15.com

So, yea, go ahead make it legal medicinally and recreationally. I'll believe the "no negative effects" claim when I see a bipartisan, unbiased, peer reviewed published study. Until then I'll have questions and concerns.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em

[redsox]

scoot, not to get too far off topic, (i think its generally where we're headed) i think we're in agreement on the basics here, and camps are forming. i'm wondering, do you have the same stance on heroin? or is prohibition bad across the board?

[fabiodriven]

SledCrazy, did you watch the movie?



I do find it interesting that a couple of guys believe so deeply that “The Machine” is out to get them, but yet they have no problem bragging about illegal drug use on a public forum easily monitored by ”The Machine”. To each his own, I guess.




Should marijuana be legal for recreational use? Sure, why not?.[/B] BUT, I'm not going to try to claim it's any better or worse for you than alcohol. Just like some can drink and not have it negatively affect their lives, there are those that smoke pot and have it negatively affect their lives. I've seen it. Chemicals affect different people differently. If you try to convince me otherwise I'll tell you you're full of sh!t. If there weren't chemicals in pot, even tho they're "natural", people wouldn't get buzzed, stoned, wasted, trashed, waxed, or whatever term you want to use, and we wouldn't be having this debate because people wouldn't want to use it recreationally now would they?


What you fail to realize Scooter, is that we feel this law is unjust. In my eyes it is a prohibition and an unjust one at that. This is a point of view shared by more than many these days. It is an overwhelming amount of the public that feels this way and a very big wave is building up and getting ready to crash in this subject as we speak. It is a fact that marijuana has been legalized in many places already inside of the US Scooter, so let us not pretend this isn't happening in front of your face. What is occurring right now is a movement, and in hindsight those who acted as they were required will be seen as those who did right and accomplished something by standing up for what they believed in. This country wouldn't exist today if our fore fathers had listened their higher ups that knew what was "good" for them. As you stated, a tone is a very tough thing to decipher via written word, however, you quote "the machine" in a possibly mocking way, as if we're odd for being aware of such a thing. Am I mistaken? Well if you hadn't noticed that thing that takes all of your money, doles it out where it wants, watches what you do, tells you what you can and can't do, and ensures we all stay down where we are, and speaks to you through that box, and tells you this substance is illegal and this substance is ok, that really does exist. I'm no anarchist, trust me, but when this entity takes myself and my people to war under false pretenses and then tries to tell me that addictive pills are good and this plant is bad, I tend to not trust them anymore, you dig? What I'm asking of people like yourself Scooter, is to make your own decision. It doesn't take a scientist with a laboratory to find out which substance is worse. I may seem simple to many, but this life has gotten so overly complex that people will look right past their own experiences to see what someone in a lab coat or a selectman's seat thinks is good for them, which is exactly what they want. Scooter, I'm not asking you or telling you to do anything, but I have taken drugs and alcohol and I have used marijuana. See because Uncle Sam says it's OK for me to drink and take their pills then I can talk about that all day on here and that wouldn't bother you for a second. The problem with you having a problem with me saying anything about marijuana (it's OK, you can say it) is not because it's such a harmful substance, it is because Uncle Sam says it's bad. What you're failing to do, Scooter, is ask yourself if it is indeed "bad" or at least worse than alcohol, which is OK to talk about. You're going to listen to what "they" want you to believe, yes?

Prescription drugs- I personally abused as a teen recreationally but never got addicted. I had my fun but didn't make a habit of it. Did a lot of drugs for fun in my teens and early twenties. Then I went to war and got my first prescription after a 10 minute sit down after I got home. Took them and was found curled up in the fetal position more than once. I thought my medicine would help but soon figured out it was the cause. Stopped taking pills and just dealt with things. I got in two binds, one a few years back and the other a couple years back, where I was put on anti-anxiety pills. Highly addictive and very powerful. They put you in a cloud that you can see the wreckage from when (if) you emerge from it. As long as you have a pill every day, the cloud remains. It takes a very strong will to get completely off of them. I don't tend to get addicted easily and it took me multiple times to get off a very mild dosage that I was on very short term. I know two people right now whose prescription for the same medicine is 6x (yes six times) what mine was a day and they have both been on these for years. The amount of damage those pills did to me in a couple short months was amazing when I looked back, and these people have been on these for YEARS. The things these people do from day to day is amazing, and people just accept that kind of behavior as if it were normal. Grown men acting like children. You have to "scan" the room before they come in and look at what they're going to knock over or break. Tell them something and it's literally gone in ten seconds as if you had never spoken. They sit and watch TV and rot, and they're all so depressed and depressing. If you'd like written proof look at my posting from two years ago. Scooter, if you need a lab coat to tell you what's worse, that's fine. I'll think for myself and make my own decision based on what I know, and that's that drugs are bad, mmmkay? These people on pills are monsters, shadows of their former selves and the basic necessity for them when it really comes down to it is pills. Not their health, not how they view themselves, not what they do for others. Their pills will always have to be there.

Alcohol- According to the NCADD, https://ncadd.org/in-the-news/155-25-million-alcohol-related-deaths-worldwide-annually, alcohol is the cause of 2.5 million deaths annually. Need I really say more on that subject?

Marijuana- Scooter you want to oppose so bad and act as if we're begging you not to, on the contrary however. We are begging you to put up an argument please. I just did a quick Google search to find out how many deaths there are due to marijuana. I am being completely honest with you when I tell you now that I couldn't find any, but I would nary ask my opposition to take my word on such a hinging factor, so I task you with it in the name of accuracy. I'd like for you to tell us how many people are killed annually due to marijuana.

After my return home from war and my forays with pills, alcohol, and the law (pretty bad), and years of not caring whether or not I lived or died and acting as such, I decided recently it was time to grow up and get this ship pointed in the right direction and the sails up or this choppy water was going to turn into 10 foot swells sooner than later so that's what I did. You know what the keys are to my success are? Exercise, music, unplugging, diet, and marijuana does play a part in that. So hold the following against me as the law says you should.

I am in a work lull right now, end of snow season and about to begin a new career. Worked hard moving snow which pays well enough to coast for the moment. For over two months now, my days have consisted of me waking up, smoking up, drinking a protein shake, two to three hours at the gym, home made green drink, more meals protein shakes, smile, repeat. And you know what has fallen in my lap over the last few weeks? Three (that's one more than two) career (not job) offers and even a couple decent women. Now I don't know what kind of drinkers you have where you're from, but being able to kick life's ass and making things like this happen is a very, very, VERY VERY VERY far cry from what the alkies I know are doing. The alkies I know are the saddest, and worst people previously in my life, right up there with the addicts. They have sopped more positive energy and taken more of my life out of me than I'm fair enough to admit. My ex threw her whole life away on alcohol and I dealt with that very deeply, and still do. Many of my closest friends I've had to cut out. They physically smell like death and they look no better. Disgusting people I'm not afraid to say.

So the last week or two I've been on the treadmill two or three miles in and mentally going over the pros and cons of each of the three careers I'd like to choose, or thinking about the smokeshow I had on the back of my bike twice last week, then rowed for a half hour and swam twenty five laps after that. Then I talk to people for a while, I usually don't know them but now I know a few. Some are old, some are Asian, whatever. You know what I don't see a lot of at the gym? Drunks. Or let's give them some credit, people drinking. I usually see them saying something stupid or offensive, and they're often at bars. They seem to want to fight a lot. They also like to toss their bottles and cans all over my lawn and in the woods and crash their cars into things and rot from the inside out and murder people and, well, you know.

So Scooter, you can't tell between marijuana, alcohol, and drugs which is worse or better? If that's the case, then our vision just differs. Forget the video, forget Fox News. I know where Fabio's been and I know what I've done and what has taken me where as do you, and I tend to think your experiences in this subject couldn't possibly be all that far off from mine, as there are statistics to show what each substance is responsible for.




My wife suffers from MS and I have a grand nephew with autism. If one or both could benefit from medicinal marijuana I would be ecstatic



http://www.denverrelief.com/blog/conditions-treated-by-cannabis/autism-and-cannabis-marijuana-therapy/

http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Treating-MS/Complementary-Alternative-Medicines/Marijuana

It's a safe bet marijuana could possibly help them both. Obviously I don't know that for certain but those links would elude you to believe that cannabis could very well be the answer in both cases. You can thank the machine for not allowing people to use it and allowing them to suffer for years with pills that treat the symptoms rather than the cause. You do know that's how most modern medicines work correct? Why cure someone when all you're going to do is stop them from using more of your product. Think on the scale of these companies if you would. If you cure millions, you've just gotten rid of millions of faithful customers. Do you see the dollar signs going bye-bye if they did that? Do you understand that the pharmaceutical companies are for profit and want to make as much profit as they possibly can? They are not in business to help people, they are in business to make money.




Totally harmless? Considering that we're just scratching the surface on the positive aspects of the chemicals in MJ, I'm not going to believe that just yet. Since they are trying to project a positive image of medicinal MJ and a negative image of pharmaceuticals, do you really think they are going to list any negatives known to be caused by MJ? My first thought is: How healthy is it to be inhaling a bunch of smoke and holding it in your lungs as long as possible? Any type of smoke for that matter?

I first smoked pot when I was about 16. That was twenty years ago. I am smarter than ever, a productive and helpful member of society, a veteran, I work out daily, help people whether I know them or not, and have a lot of friends and a great family. I am the pinnacle of me at this time right now and I'm just getting started, and I'm not delusional. It's all around me. I can do many things that many people can't and I learn from my mistakes and evolve. I am self aware, much more so than most, and I see clearly my goals and what might slow me from achieving them. Consider me a lab rat. I've got twenty years in so ask away.




You want sympathy for people on any level who got caught with weed and got jail or prison time? Don't come to me. EVERYBODY knows it's illegal. You make the choice to participate in an illegal activity, no matter how stupid or unjust you think the laws are? You have no one to blame but yourself, you knew better. See my sig above.

Again you fail to see the big picture. If the law is unjust, then why are those being punished for it still wrong? They didn't make the unjust law and they stood for what was right in the end.




The film makers are a bunch Liberal/Progressive/Eurosocialist Canadian and UK MEDIA up and comers.

The “Experts” are big time university professors and “scholars”. You won’t find a larger pool of Liberals/Progressives/Socialists than upper academia.

Oh, and let’s not forget! A former big time pot smuggler

The US MEDIA celebrities, a veritable who’s who of Liberal/Progressives:
Joe Rogan: The Young Turks (I’ll cover them in a bit) are pushing for Joe Rogan to be the Democratic presidential nominee for 2016.
After doing some research it appears that ol’ Joe supports a variety of other Liberal stances

“The Young Turks”
Cenk Kadir Uygur: Uygur is a Turkish-American columnist, political commentator and activist. Uygur is the main host and co-founder of the American liberal/progressive political and social internet commentary program, The Young Turks (TYT) and the co-Founder of the associated TYT Network. He worked as an attorney in Washington, D.C. and New York before beginning his career as a political commentator. Originally a moderate Republican, he is now a progressive.
Ana Kasparian: Kasparian was an assistant producer with CBS Radio news stations in Los Angeles, first with KFWB and then KNX.[6][7] She has also worked with AOL News, YouTube, TidalTv and On Point. After becoming a fill-in host in April 2007, Kasparian became the producer and co-host with Cenk Uygur of the progressive talk radio on Sirius XM Satellite Radio and internet show/TV show The Young Turks. She co-hosted TYT University, a show focused on issues faced by university students for some years, and now hosts another TYT Network show, The Point.

If anyone else hadn't noticed, not one on "our" side, nor did anyone in the video, attempt to discredit or attack anyone's character from the other side. What you saw from the opposition was them, the opposition, speaking their own words which were then commented on. I didn't say anything about anyone's character in an attempt to defame or discredit. These people are who they are and your argument is null either way because the whole point of the movement is, all walks of life use marijuana. The young, the old, the good, the bad, the real, the fake, liars and Fabios, politicians and honest people, and even you. You can discredit all you want, it doesn't matter. They smoke it on skid row and they smoke it on Madison Ave. It doesn't matter who's who.




Rappers: Seriously? Who, as Fabio says, “are at the pinnacle of their profession which is a very, very hard position to ascertain” The profession of the music business? The epitome of excess? Sex, Drugs and rock and roll?
And since when are celebrities, rock stars, movies stars, et al the “voice of the people”? Fabio: have you personally contacted D-o-double g or Queefa or whatever his name is and told them to speak for you? I know I haven’t.

If your point is it's very easy to become what these people have then I will wholeheartedly disagree. Who in their right mind doesn't want to be a rock star? Are you seriously going to attempt to make it seem as though what these people have achieved was easy?

These people are celebrities, yes, but they are musicians. As I said already, disrespect all you want but when your self expression demands the attention theirs does then you can claim their words don't matter. Scooter, these people's words have garnered the attention of millions of people. Do I really have to explain this to you? Again, let's say you're right. None of these people are nearly as important as the video would like to insinuate. Not even joking, you're right! Now explain to me how this makes them any less credible. You don't want to hear it from scholars or scientists or artists, OK that's fine. Your choice. What about someone you have an acquaintance with, such as myself. No? OK, fine. I'm just a truck driver, they are who they are, but you know what you can't decide we're not? People. We're all people and our feelings and experience on this subject should be listened to unless given some reason otherwise. A rash of pot explosions, pot murders, potting and driving, pot wars... Wait we already have that last one, but there's only one side who would like to keep it going.


Or is it because they are wealthy celebrities with tight connections to the wealthy politicians and even more wealthy political donors who control the “Machine” that you so despise and want to be free from its control, BUT NEED THAT MACHINE to approve your drug of choice?


I'm not sure really what this means but if you're suggesting celebrities and politicians are in cahoots somehow you're more out of touch than I thought. This is something that doesn't need speculation, the drug companies are actually, factually, known to be tied in with our government. That is fact, we all know it. I'd like some proof of celebrities in cahoots with the government please to back this claim, specifically having to deal with cannabis. Thank you.

If you think I need the machine to approve of the plant of my choice then this one's for you.




But yet here you are regurgitating what you see in an independent film, which is just another arm of TV/Radio/MEDIA?



This is information that I have found to be completely factual, through my own lifestyle, is true and I find it could help other people. That's not to say that my choice of lifestyle is for everyone, but it's not fair that everyone for this type of lifestyle be persecuted wrongfully because people such as yourself feel as though we shouldn't be able to live our lives the way we want to. It's been proven as far as I'm concerned. People have been smoking pot since the dawn of time and it's caused very few issues. Cigarettes kill you. If you can't look at a smoker and tell they're killing themselves then I guess I'm just smarter than you? If you can't look at a drinker and see they've aged themselves (if they haven't managed to kill themselves yet) then you, my friend, are blind. We both know you can see. Keep the veil on if you want, you don't have to see what we're doing over here, but I can assure you that it will not effect you. My smoking would effect you far less than your drinking will ever effect me. Statistically who's going to crash into whom? Or murder whom? Or just start a fight? So yes, I do endorse this particular film. I will use this tool of information as it should be used, to do good for people.




This is a standard practice by the left. “It’s for the children”. Health care, education, global warm….errr climate change, gun control, minimum wage, you name it….”It’s for the children”
Why? Because it evokes emotion. I feel just as bad for the kids who suffer as anyone else. If you have good solid evidence and proof that something works to cure serious ailments, the side effects of chemo, etc, just show me the evidence. If you have good, solid research that something works it will speak for itself. No need use children to try to sway my opinion or feelings.

Does the age of the handicapped or seriously ill individual really matter? Everybody deserves treatment to relieve pain and suffering.



Honestly I'd be ashamed of those words. It saddens me that you honestly think that way. The little boy in that video suffered greatly and was (near) hopelessly addicted to (barbiturates?), and this plant helped him. Did you not just ask a few paragraphs earlier for evidence of this plant having a medical benefit? The boys father wept tears of joy as he told his story, they showed it right in front of your eyes, and you have the audacity to both ask for evidence and then discredit a poor young boy whose entire life was changed by this plant once evidence is presented? This, if nothing else, is proof that nothing will appease your foothold on your side and it doesn't matter for what good or what purpose this plant has become a topic of debate. You have all the markings of one who has taken a higher dosage of the Kool-Aid than the rest, which is undoubtedly due to your age. You've had double or triple the dose of most here. You do what you want but I'll stay away from taking anything but a smile from the footage of that boy going out in his yard for the first time ever.


Broad brushing of physicians: Every doctor is a profit motivated pill pusher? :rolleyes:

Personal experience- Me; no doctors unless in a pinch. Two prescription over the last 7 year or so, the older lasting a year on and off the second lasting roughly two months. Both times were the closest I've ever been to death.

Friend A; The more he goes to the doctor, the more he takes the pills, the worse he gets. He gets sick, he gets fat, he gets old fast. His brain is literally scrambled. Doesn't hear what you say and no idea what he says or does. Reason is out the window, no common sense. A danger to himself and those around him.

Friend B; On pills for years. Confused about many aspects of life. You couldn't winch him away from the TV if it were 85 and sunny. Exceptionally anti-social, makes poor decisions, no concept of the future, does things he regrets often. Goes to work every day but shies away from standing out or making anything of himself. Just wants to fly under the radar, perfect consumer. Watch the show, take the pill, buy some stuff, work, repeat.

These guys should not be on this dosage for this amount of time. How do I know? Because I was prescribed the same pill from the VA. The dosage they gave me was plenty. Double the dosage was more than enough, 6x that? I'm sorry but six fawking times?! I would be in the hospital if I took that, or I would be a literal zombie. I lost an entire week when I was in my late teens to a handful of pills. I got around, made it to work, and even drove. I drove fine too, but I don't know that. I was told that after. My buddy thought I seemed off but he said I drove perfect. I don't even remember it. That's what would happen to me if I took what my friends are prescribed. This explains the countless calamities that surround my friends and I in turn end up getting involved in. So to answer your question, I've seen too many people on way too many drugs. The doctors want to give out the pills, the patients want to take the pills. It's a win/win as far as they're concerned. From what I see doctors love to give out prescriptions.

I just decided my exact mind frame and established my goal career wise weeks ago. The exact position I desired has been delivered to me on a platter in a location ten minutes from my house, which is a lot closer than the shop I was gunning for. Not only is it closer, but it will be a better job all around. That, my friend, is the art of manifestation and tell me what you don't believe all you want, I believe in results, and this is not by accident and this is not the kind of thing that happens to alkies and druggies. This is what I set my mind on and made happen, my mind which is honed in and trained to obtain that which I desire. I don't need Google to show me what's been happening in my own life lately, and if more people took their eyes off the TV and filled their heads with the music and words they wanted to hear rather than what's plumbed into their homes and cars (and you pay for it!) they might be able to realize their wants and desires as well. Discredit me or anyone else and I know what you're going to say, you've not discredited me, but you've attempted to discredit everyone in that video. I've accomplished a lot and it hasn't been without a very fair share of hard work and effort on my part, however, I have not accomplished what it is those people have. They have risen amongst the ranks of everyone else in this country, every single person here, and their work is cherished and will always be remembered. They are from this moment in time and have experience with the subject at hand which is all they need to be qualified to have an opinion.

Typing that you are ready does not make it so Scooter.

[fabiodriven]

Scooter there aren't many replied due to the requirement that the video must be watched first. That's obviously going to bring the number of replies down and that wasn't by accident.

[atctim]

I watched this documentary for a second time last night. I'm still digesting it. What I find most peculiar is that most of those interviewed are and pretty much the entire cast are liberal progressives. What I find odd is that I am on the opposite side of the fence as these people on most topics. This is something I can find a common ground with them on.

The part I keep playing back in my head is the guy with the two puppets, one on each hand. Some people like the right hand puppet because he says this, and other like the left hand puppet because he said that. But in reality it is the same guy running both puppets. This is our current political environment to a "T".

[ironchop]

I watched this documentary for a second time last night. I'm still digesting it. What I find most peculiar is that most of those interviewed are and pretty much the entire cast are liberal progressives. What I find odd is that I am on the opposite side of the fence as these people on most topics. This is something I can find a common ground with them on......

That was my reaction INITIALLY. I`m still conditioned to be wary of any progressive language because I spent all the 90s consumed with Left vs. Right and fighting the evil Liberals and their goal of world domination under a New World Order. A friend challenged me to be a better debater by reading up on my perceived enemy so that maybe I could understand where they get their ideology and what drives their need for dominance. Apparently "yer a dirty Marxist" isn`t a very good tactic for winning arguments.

I picked up a copy of The Essential Chomsky. Read some Dr. Cornel West as well.

I found that I agree with quite a bit of what Chomsky had to say. Honestly, Libertarians and some Socialists share a lot of complaints and realizations with one another. The fundamental difference is in the ideas they have to fix the problem. The same is true across the political spectrum. Lots of shared opinions but different ideas on how to change the world. Honestly there are only a few key issues that these groups actually differ in opinion whereas it concerns what constitutes a problem.

I dabbled into Anarchism both outright and Anarcho-communism as well. Same thing. I shared opinions on the problems in the country but I disagree in their solutions. You can`t just remove authority altogether and everyone will just do what`s good for the community and not be selfish. You need authority because there are corrupt and selfish people out there who don`t care who suffers as long as they benefit. Marxists believe that Egalitarianism and banning capitalism solves all the worlds problems because its supposed to eliminate suffering and jealousy and resentment. It does just that for the proletariat BUT there are still corrupt and selfish people leading the Red Charge and because of this, you get dissention. Instead of quelling dissention with reforms, Communists refer to the Police State of control to smash dissention (Marxism is fundamentally against the Leninist and Stalinist versions of "communism" but that didnt stop corrupt people from corrupting ideology and becoming tyrants in the process) and maintain strict obedience to the state whatever the state`s agenda may entail.

Back to Conservatism......I was on board until Bush II passed the Patriot Act. I knew then that the two party system was a complete fraud and that the endgame was the same regardless of the party in power. I was never again blinded by the false dichotomy.

The reason I said so much about political theory is to point out that we share ALOT of ideas about whats wrong with this country. If we continue to split hairs about what frucking camp this guy belongs to or that guy, we will never learn. They are ALL in cahoots. They look like fools but don`t let fools make a fool out of you.

The Illusion of "Democracy" can`t be maintained if we realize there is no difference in representation. They all love war. They all lie. They all steal. They all are hypocrits. They are ALL out for themselves.

Sun Tzu Art of War proverb: in a nutshell, you must divide your enemy in order to destroy them.

Take a look around you. Have we EVER been this divided since 1856? That should tell you how close we are to something very BAD.

Until you can look at one another and say "American" rather than "liberal", "progressive", "neocon", "evangelical", or "moderate" we will ALWAYS be easily defeated

[fabiodriven]

Excellent post Doug, thank you very much.

Also thank you Scooter. Again I am obviously passionate about this issue and do get revved up. I do appreciate your posting however.

[redsox]

i watched a documentary on childhood cancer treatment. to be fair, i saw part two of a three part series. so,, i thought i should mention that. also, it was on PBS, so grain of salt there also. But, watching it, and seeing how chemotherapy came about, was eye opening. it was about the early days of Dana Farber and The Jimmy Fund. it was amazing to see how slow and shitty the science evolved, and how many kids were put through torture to get where we are today. the doctors were literally killing kids. In there defense, the kids were facing certain death to cancer anyway. the drugs evolved, through trial and error, so slowly. brilliant scientists worked for decades, and kids just kept dying. gains were measured by extending lives by a day. there was a part where the combination of more than one drug was a divisive topic. top doctors disagreed completely. eventually, a cure was found and the treatments started to work. it made me think of this thread. everyone hates drug companies. i do to. everyone hates that pills are overprescribed. i do to. the cancer documentary made me think more about it though. i'm gonna watch the other two parts. its interesting.

[Scootertrash]

I`m sorry about the pound it ......it just seems like "your kind " has to always drag something political into the analogy ! So i was right you hate it ...you never tried it ...you never will .......i`m 3 yrs older then you ....your uptight i`m not ...what else ?

My kind? The documentary starts off with a bunch of left wing media hacks pointing the finger at a bunch of right wing political hacks and some politicians. Who made it political?

One of the main "authorities"(Cenk) is supporting another of the main "authorities"(Rogan) as the DEMOCRAT candidate for president as a substitute for Hillary. Who made it political? Rogan used to support Paul. Why did he go Democrat?

Never said I hated it, never said I didn't use it. lame feeble attempt at discrediting my opinion, but failboat for you. I don't blindly follow anyone. Not the government nor an individual prone to childish outbursts filled with nonsensical gibberish when he doesn't hear what he wants. Grow up.

[QUOTE=glamy;1361020]blaze one and chill da fack out ! [QUOTE]

You should try taking your own advice sometime.

[Scootertrash]

Poor butthurt scooter it dawns on you two weeks later ? I`m sooo hurt and offended by what you said...... i`m gonna go away for two hole weeks maybe longer ! That way i can bend and twist whatever you say because i`m against you......who do you follow ?....your own tale ?.....forget about who`s supporting who politically this is about the ABSURDITY OF PROHIBITION OF REEFER AND GETTING HIGH AND ALL THE LITTLE UPTIGHT SH!T THAT YOU CAN`T STAND ! Hurry up and go to work i need my EBT so i can go to the Medical REEFER store and get my sh!t so i can sit on the couch and eat bon-bons all day ! Thanks Scooter !

[QUOTE=Scootertrash;1364158] an individual prone to childish outbursts filled with nonsensical gibberish when he doesn't hear what he wants.[QUOTE] I rest my case.

I never twisted anything you said, I used your own words. 2 weeks? 2 months? What's the difference? Prohibition is only part of the doc. They should have left politics out of it and the doc would have still successfully covered the topic of pointless, ineffective prohibition.

I have a life outside of the internet princess. It's spring and I have tons of yard work, We're finishing our basement and I have 2 3 wheeler projects and 2 quads sitting on my driveway that need work.

When you need to fellate politicians to get done what you want, it's political. You're just too uptight to admit it.

ETA: I'm not the only one here to see the leftist leaning in your beloved doc. I agree with the message, not the method. Twist MY words however YOU want because it's not what YOU want to hear. The door swings both ways skippy. ;)

[Scootertrash]

<snip>

I'm not going to waste space quoting all of same comments that you've posted multiple times before.

I manifest 2 or 3 movements a day, and they have everything in common with your tactics in these threads: It's a bunch of sh!t.

Alinksy would be proud.

You totally twist my words out of context, use lame ass stereotypes, insults, and personal attacks to discredit my opinion because it's not 100% in line with yours.

Quotes can be used to denote a phrase, hence “The Machine”

I never said I don’t think that Marijuana doesn’t have medicinal uses, I said

Does marijuana have legitimate medicinal qualities? I'm not an expert, but I don't see why not, every other drug is based from other naturally occurring sources. I do know that it can help alleviate headaches and nausea.

I’m not medical expert and neither are you.

You stoop low to enough to turn this (I added, in bold, the part back in that you so conveniently cut out of my quote):

Originally Posted by Scootertrash View Post
Bringing children into it: (Don’t bother trying to accuse me of being insensitive to the plight of handicapped children. If you knew me you’d know better. In addition, it’s just another Liberal/Progressive tactic to demonize anyone who questions this practice.)
This is a standard practice by the left. “It’s for the children”. Health care, education, global warm….errr climate change, gun control, minimum wage, you name it….”It’s for the children”
Why? Because it evokes emotion. I feel just as bad for the kids who suffer as anyone else. If you have good solid evidence and proof that something works to cure serious ailments, the side effects of chemo, etc, just show me the evidence. If you have good, solid research that something works it will speak for itself. No need use children to try to sway my opinion or feelings.
Does the age of the handicapped or seriously ill individual really matter? Everybody deserves treatment to relieve pain and suffering.

Into this?:

Honestly I'd be ashamed of those words. It saddens me that you honestly think that way. The little boy in that video suffered greatly and was (near) hopelessly addicted to (barbiturates?), and this plant helped him. Did you not just ask a few paragraphs earlier for evidence of this plant having a medical benefit? The boys father wept tears of joy as he told his story, they showed it right in front of your eyes, and you have the audacity to both ask for evidence and then discredit a poor young boy whose entire life was changed by this plant once evidence is presented? This, if nothing else, is proof that nothing will appease your foothold on your side and it doesn't matter for what good or what purpose this plant has become a topic of debate. You have all the markings of one who has taken a higher dosage of the Kool-Aid than the rest, which is undoubtedly due to your age. You've had double or triple the dose of most here. You do what you want but I'll stay away from taking anything but a smile from the footage of that boy going out in his yard for the first time ever.

Yea, right, that’s it. I’m too old to “get it”. That’s the best you’ve got? A worn out 60’s retread stereotype? Don’t trust anyone over 30?

Where the hell did I ever say that I wasn’t happy for that little boy?

Where the hell did I ever say that cannabis based medicine didn’t work for that little boy?

I didn’t ASK for evidence that it has medical benefit.

I said:

If you have good solid evidence and proof that something works to cure serious ailments, the side effects of chemo, etc, just show me the evidence. If you have good, solid research that something works it will speak for itself. No need use children to try to sway my opinion or feelings.

I NEVER discredited that little boy nor his success in overcoming his addiction to prescription meds.

With all the academic professionals in your documentary, surely there is one or more with peer reviewed researched published in a highly respected fashion.

I honestly expected better from you, but obviously you are so blinded by your emotions that you’ll stoop to any level to make someone look bad.

Have you given unselfish financial support to Jayden’s fund to cover the costs of his natural remedies that aren’t covered by insurance?

You criticize those who blindly follow the machine without question, but criticize those who won’t blindly follow you?

You can have your own opinion as long as it’s the same as mine.


this is not the kind of thing that happens to alkies and druggies

Apparently you’ve never heard of a functioning alcoholic or a functioning addict?

With your vast cornucopia of knowledge you should be aware that all drugs affect different people differently, and therefore understand that my questions are valid, yes?
My questions are not an indication that I don’t think marijuana should be legal. I question ALL AUTHORITY, including yours.

The best part of this whole thread is the fact that you fail to address these FACTS:

YOU HAVE TO GET IN BED WITH THE MACHINE YOU SO DESPISE TO GET THEM TO TELL YOU IT’S OK TO DO YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE

THE MACHINE YOU SO DESPISE WILL CONTROL MANUFACTURING, DISTRIBUTION AND TAXATION OF YOUR DRUG OF CHOICE

THE PHARMACUETICAL COMPANIES YOU SO DESPISE WILL CONTROL THE MANUFACTURING, DISTRIBUTION AND PRICE OF THE MEDICINAL MARIJUANA PRODUCTS (do you really believe medicinal MJ will be cheap?)


Interesting thing is, one of your experts from the documentary, Graham Hancock, seems to think that pot was having a negative effect on his life. His opinion echos mine on the issue of weed: Some will use it responsibly, some won't. (just like any other "drug") He even states he was "abusing" cannabis, in his own words , as you say. I could even go back and shorten the clip to just the part where he says "I think I was abusing it, not using it responsibly" if that would make it easier for you to understand (approx 7:18-7:40). This is a little clip from the vid that ironchop posted earlier in the thread. It's only about 5 minutes as opposed to 2 hours:


http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5603030


Here's the link to the original vid. The portion in the link above goes from 5:00-9:45. That way you can go back and make sure I didn't alter the clip, you know, to "fit my agenda"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b6-0yW7Iaw&feature=youtu.be

You enjoy your one sided “debate”. When you start insulting my intelligence and questioning my compassion for handicapped, sick, or terminally ill individuals no matter what their age by twisting my words you lose any respect I had for your “movement”.

I’ll continue to support legalized weed for medicinal and recreational use, but I will also continue to have questions and not be a sheep.

[Scootertrash]

I agree wholeheartedly with Graham Hancock and i think ALL drugs should be legal !

Including the part where he admits he was "abusing cannabis, not using it responsibly"? Or are you purposely avoiding that portion of the video?

Here's the link again in case you missed it:


http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5603030

[Scootertrash]

I`ve always meant ALL drugs !

Never said you didn't. That's not the point. Stay focused.


You gotta be told to use common sense ? Too much of anything is no good right ?

Carmen who?

Not talking about me. I'm well aware of "Enjoy in moderation". That doesn't mean I've always adhered to the phrase. ;) Unfortunately, common sense isn't so common anymore, as I'm sure you will agree.

One of my points thru this whole thread has been that there are those that will abuse it, resulting in negative consequences. I don't want you, I, and the other hardworking Joes and Joannes being on the hook for paying for those negative consequences via court mandated treatment programs, cuz we both know it will happen, just like with alcohol and every other drug.

As far as the health concerns I have, well, not everything ANY of us do is "healthy", I just tired of paying for others peoples bad habits, poor decisions and f-ups. I'm guessing you are too?

Neither of these things is enough to make me say "Don't legalize it". The war on drugs is a farce and a major failure, I have buddies who are cops that agree, go figure.

Blaze away! Have fun! Ya never know I may join ya, but that won't change my mind about the users being responsible for their actions, myself included. ;)



What did your mom tell you ?

My Mom and my Dad both told me "The first time you end up in jail for doing something stupid, don't call until morning because you'll be spending the night anyway. The second time? Don't bother calling."

I only had to call them once. 214699


You would have a law on how to use toilet paper ?

Nah. Law enforcement would be wiped out trying to enforce that law.

I'll end this post with a vintage Peter Fonda film clip. glamy you may remember the movie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bXMsvVJZpE

[Scootertrash]

They outlawed farting in public? My sharts will get me put away for life!!!!