200x Cylinder Hone

[mayhem17]

So I'm needing to hone my cylinder on my 200x. Got my piston in today, but none of the local stores had the correct hone size I need. I'm looking to pick one up on Amazon as they have a guaranteed free 2 day prime shipping for most of what I need. Does anyone have any good suggestions for me? The ones that I've found that have any reviews have mixed reviews. Most of the bad just being about the stones breaking. This will be the first time that I've done this, but I've seen it done many times, and never seen one break personally. Is it probably just the operator doing something wrong and then giving bad reviews? Any help appreciated.

217427217428

[onformula1]

He is the type of hone I use

http://www.enginehones.com/technical.html

I know many other people use them too.

I don't know if they have them on amazon.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

[yaegerb]

Use a ball hone....10x better

This will work.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002SAMS1E/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1435020493&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=ball+hone+%2B+2.5&dpPl=1&dpID=31beO4UryRL&ref=plSrch

[mayhem17]

Well, I need to use the bladed style hone for my application as I actually need to remove some material from the cylinder. Going up to a 65.5mm diameter. Right now it sits at 65.2. Won't take much, but the ball style is more for a finish.

[yaegerb]

Well if you need to remove material I would get it bored to the next size. I wouldn't trust a hone to do that, but to each his own.

[mayhem17]

This was actually the recommendation from the local machine shop. They were just going to hone it also for that small of an increase in diameter.
And the fact that where I'm at, none of the machine shops will bore small engines.

[onformula1]

Please don't try to bore a cylinder with a hone, I have seen this attempted a few times with poor results.

Also find a new machine shop or go to a motorcycle shop that has the correct equipment

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

[hoosierlogger]

Send it and the piston to m&r machine shop in greencastle Indiana. Jay is an amazing machinist with top quality tools. He has done 2 of mine for me. $75 well spent.

[mayhem17]

As stated. Trying to have this done before the weekend. I have 4 more cylinders also if this doesn't work, although it will. Have seen it done many times. Closest shop that can do it is over an hour away from me. I work 12 hour days on the weekdays, so very hard for me to get it there in the time frame needed.

[yaegerb]

He is the type of hone I use

http://www.enginehones.com/technical.html

I know many other people use them too.

I don't know if they have them on amazon.

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

I think you and I shop at the same store.... A lot :)

[barnett468]

Well, I need to use the bladed style hone for my application as I actually need to remove some material from the cylinder. Going up to a 65.5mm diameter. Right now it sits at 65.2. Won't take much, but the ball style is more for a finish.

a ball style is nit a hone, it is a deglazer.

[barnett468]

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This was actually the recommendation from the local machine shop. They were just going to hone it also for that small of an increase in diameter.

Unfortunately if they told you that it is perfectly fine to hone your cylinder out .3 mm with a 3 blade hand held hone, they are incredibly irresponsible.




They were just going to hone it also for that small of an increase in diameter.

If they were going to hone out any worn cylinder with a 3 blade hand held hone they are either gods or they are incompetent . . I am far more inclined to think, or at least hope, that they meant they were going to use a power hone which is a very, expensive machine.

[Scootertrash]

"Haste makes waste" - Ben Franklin

Not to be a Richard Cranium, but guys come here to ask advice from members of this board. Our vastly experienced members give good solid advice based on years of experience that started out with the same types of scenarios you presented: I need it done now, I've never done it, but I watched someone a couple/many times. All of us have learned thru trial and error that being cheap, cutting corners and being in a hurry don't pay off in the long run.


This was actually the recommendation from the local machine shop. They were just going to hone it also for that small of an increase in diameter.
And the fact that where I'm at, none of the machine shops will bore small engines.

This statement makes no sense. "This is what they said they'd do, but no one around here does small engines."

.3mm is about .011. That's a lot of material to hone out unless you have an assortment of hones ranging from coarse to fine.

What are you using to measure your bore? Measuring just the top and bottom of your bore doesn't assure that your bore is straight.

Do you know the piston to cylinder bore clearance specs?

What are you using to measure your piston diameter?......................................... ........................................

[barnett468]

.

I have 4 more cylinders also if this doesn't work, although it will. Have seen it done many times.

It is simply impossible to properly true a cylinder with a hand held hone . . It will never happen in anyone's lifetime guaranteed . . Just because you have seen cylinders honed out to the next size with a 3 blade hand held hone, it does not mean they were true . . If your bore is not nearly perfectly true, your rings will never fully seat properly . . They need a consistently true cylinder from top top bottom to fully seal and there ain't one single person here that will yell you anything different.

This is not to say that an engine will not physically run if the bore isn't true, but it means that compression WILL will be leaking past the rings if it isn't true . . The more untrue is is, the more it will leak, and it tales very little out of round to cause a significant compression leak.

Sure you can do it this way so you can ride this weekend but at least you know the downfalls and can make a more informed decision . . Also, once those rings are run on an untrue bore, they will likely not properly seal on a true one so if you do end redoing the top end after this, i would use a new set of rings.
.

[mayhem17]

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It is simply impossible to properly true a cylinder with a hand held hone . . It will never happen in anyone's lifetime guaranteed . . Just because you have seen cylinders honed out to the next size with a 3 blade hand held hone, it does not mean they were true . . If your bore is not nearly perfectly true, your rings will never fully seat properly . . They need a consistently true cylinder from top top bottom to fully seal and there ain't one single person here that will yell you anything different.

This is not to say that an engine will not physically run if the bore isn't true, but it means that compression WILL will be leaking past the rings if it isn't true . . The more untrue is is, the more it will leak, and it tales very little out of round to cause a significant compression leak.

Sure you can do it this way so you can ride this weekend but at least you know the downfalls and can make a more informed decision . . Also, once those rings are run on an untrue bore, they will likely not properly seal on a true one so if you do end redoing the top end after this, i would use a new set of rings.
.




Thank you for the sound advise in this post. This is what I was looking for. I am looking for a somewhat quick fix for the weekend, hence my other post about using the cheap piston for the moment. I have another complete engine that I'm also redoing for this bike from the bottom up. Looking to be into this spare engine for as little as possible in the shortest amount of time as I am trikeless right now without it going.

To the comment about the machine shop making no sense, they do not have the equipment for small engine boring, but if they did, that they would hone the cylinder for that small of a difference. I live in an oilfield town, so the 3 machine shops that are here work with large equipment / vehicles only basically. The guy I spoke with is the owner of the business and used to do small engines, but there wasn't a demand for it here, and sold his equipment years ago. I also called the machine shop in my old town that did service small engines, and he told me the same thing if I'm only going to the next size overbore.

Another question to the comment you made (Barnett468) in regards to being true. I am trying to find the correct size hone with at least a 4 inch bar. The cylinder height is right at 4.5 inches give or take. Would this help in resolving that issue?

[onformula1]

I think you and I shop at the same store.... A lot :)

Ha Ha!

I think you might be right, this is not the first time this has happened.

Maybe someday we can meet in person, have a Sarsaparilla and compare lists. "lol"

[barnett468]

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no prob your welcome but please read my post again . . it is very specific in detail and very accurate as are the posts from others here . . as i mentioned, nobody here will tell you any different . . Fact - it WILL run . . Fact - it will NOT be true within spec . . will it be close? . . i highly doubt it if it is out of spec now.

heres the deal . .there is a massive difference between a computer controlled hone and a hand held one.

it is possible to put a taper in a bore with a computer hone.

it is possible to reduce or even remove taper with a computer hone.

it is possible to reduce out of round with a computer hone.

all a hand held hone basically does is follow the existing out of round and taper and simply make the hole bigger with the same out of round and taper.

as far as the length of the bar goes, i don't understand your question . . if you mean the length of the rod the drill attaches to, the ones supplied are long enough . . i would use a hone that is from 1" shorter to 1" longer than your cylinder . . if you have a local tool rental or you haul etc, they may have one you can rent but the stones might be beat to hell.

one of the things you do not want to do with a hand held hone is pull the ends out of the cylinder more than around 1".

another thing is keep moving it in and out.

another is keep spraying wd40 on it.

i or someone will post a video of how to do it, you don't want to spin the hone really fast . . this might also take you around 1 hour

yes, some shops will hone a cylinder instead of boring it if it is around .010 inches or less . . i have had this done many times but it is done on a very expensive machine so it can be trued at the same time.

it is ok to use a hand held hone to finish a newly bored cylinder because the cylinder is fairly true . . this was common in the old days but now many shops that cater to motorcycle engines have the fancy expensive hones.

most everyone here knows all this but they just didn't go into detail on it.
.

[barnett468]

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i just thought of something else . . while you have the head off you can spray carb cleaner in the ports one at a tome then while holding it somewhat horizontal, lift it up and look at the valve and see it any leaks or even weeps out . . if it does, the valve is obviously leaking.

a small weep is ok for now in your case but i would fix a big leak.

[mayhem17]

I am going to lap the valves on it also. The length I was talking about are the length of the stones on the hone.

[barnett468]

.

The length I was talking about are the length of the stones on the hone.

anywhere from 1" shorter to 1" longer than the cylinder . . from 1" shorter to the same length as the cylinder will be easier to use than one that is 1" longer than the cyl.

[barnett468]

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check for wear/grooves on the cam and rocker arms also while you have it apart just so you know how much there is.

[barnett468]

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also, i would not use synthetic oil to break it in with.

[Jmoozy27]

Boring a bell shaped cylinder with a primitive hone is just going to make a much larger bell shaped cylinder and will definitely cause extreme heartache and possibly more internal engine damage. Good luck!!!!

[atc007]

You need a fixed, straight boring bar/hone at the least.. Sunnen sells them. The "flex hone" you posted is just that. A flex hone. If you sit there in one place for 15 minutes,will it remove material? Yes, A little. You need your cylinder bored, end of story. Will it run when you get done,,,,,,sorry,,,,,butchering it? Probably, will it have top performance? not even close, and it will not last nearly as long as it should. I would slow down, build a nice engine now. And sell your other cylinders lol. You won't need them, because with a clean,piled air filter,and clean engine oil. This job will last you thousands of miles. I have personally used the hone style you pictured decades ago, Craftsman to be exact. They are just a deglazer,,, Good luck.

[atc300r]

You can hone your cylinder out to the new piston.Check and set your ring end gap and piston to cylinder clearance.Several years ago I honed a 81 250r cylinder from 60 over to 80 over with a hone like you pictured. cleaned everything with soapy water after checking all clearances and ring end gap .Rode and raced the trike for several years . Right now it sits in my garage for a spare.It took me about 3-4 hours.

[83ATC185]

Has no one else used a brake cylinder hone on one? or that they would admit to? :lol:

It wasn't out of spec just needed cleaning up for the new rings. Worked like a charm.

[atc300r]

I used a brake cylinder hone to bore a carb before.

[Dirtcrasher]

My only local dealer has a "Power Hone", LOL!! They said they always use it but if you need a MM removed they send it to a machine shop.

ALL the cylinders should go to the machine shop. Then just honed or deglazed for that cross hatch pattern.

The big boys are all giving you perfect and sound advice.

Send it to a shop that can do it right and if they say they can do it without the piston, hang up on them.....

[T-Sox]

Listen to these guys.

We used to have a guy locally with a "repair" shop behind his house. He bored cylinders with a hone and even had an ad on CL that he could bore cylinders for $30.

I personally fixed a half dozen or more bikes that he supposedly "rebuilt" and saw one that seized the piston in the bore and basically ruined the motor. Most did run but not very well. They would be hard to start, smoke and be sluggish. A compression test would show major leak down.

You'll have to decide if one weekend of riding on a machine not up to it's full potential is worth the time, money and aggravation you'll go through trying to do this.

My PAP used to always say "There is never time to do it right, but always time to do it over."

[barnett468]

.

Has no one else used a brake cylinder hone on one? or that they would admit to? :lol:

Yes...I used one to hone a brake cylinder before...oh, and my weed eater cylinder.

[big specht]

The machine shops have a finish hone that is made to final size the bore/ set the right clearance and cross hatch pattern in the cylinder. It's not your normal run if the mill hone they cost around 400+.

[mayhem17]

So I found another shop outside of town that has a power hone or something like that. Only having to remove about .3mm from the cylinder. Still nobody within 1.5 hours that has the setup to bore atv cylinders. Took cylinder and piston to him today. Should have it tomorrow. I also don't plan on selling my other cylinders. I want to use them to learn on basically. I've been told by many that they have honed small amounts like I'm needing to do and had no issues. Only hear otherwise from people who's buddies did it and did not work. Maybe I like to learn the hard way, but thats why I have plenty to play with. I wouldn't run the risk of ruining one if I didn't. Also being on the stock bore still, if I did mess it up somehow, I guess then I could make the drive somewhere to have it fixed right. lol.

I just have very few options where I'm at. If there is any way possible that I can do the work myself without having to take it somewhere to be done, I'd rather spend the money on the tools for the job and do it myself. Thats part of the enjoyment of owning things like this to me I guess. I appreciate all the feedback regardless. I went ahead and ordered a 3 stone hone online last night. I have a 185 cylinder that I'm going to play with it on. I've got about 3 of those engines sitting in my garage right now that I know nothing about. lol

[barnett468]

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one problem is the difficulty of accurately measuring the bore once its done because it takrs experience to use snap gauges properly and a lot of money for a bore micrometer.

you can't just hone it to size and then visually look at it to see if it is true or not.

you also can not ride it afterward and then say that it would not run better if it was done properly because you dont have a properly bored cylinder to compare to.














htifpriblemas i

[mayhem17]

Well I will have this one done from the shop tomorrow. It'll be a bit before I get the other together.