Franks KTMs three wheeles on the race track

[John_Neary]

This is for Bill OC250r who inspired me to start posting here on 3wheelerworld with his thread about Kelvin Franks wonderful creations.

(1)KTM 495 at Riverside OffRoad world championships.

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(2)KTM 495 at Watsonville Offroad Nationals.

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(3)George railing a turn on the KTM 250 at the Alaskan invitational race.

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(4)Drag racing King Dean out of a turn at a Mickey Thompson Grand Prix at Pomona Raceway on the KTM 250.

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(5)Horsepower was never in shortage with my Dad tuning our bikes.

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George had text book style.

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More to come.

[Toaster556]

Awesome photos, thanks for sharing.
Did all of your Franks bikes have Simons forks on them, or did you use the WP inverted forks on any?

[John_Neary]

@Toaster556 - My Dad was good friends with Steve Simons and not only did Steve make the forks but he was the Ohlins shock importer at the time so we had fork and shock sponsorship from him and is why you always saw Simons Forks and Ohlins shocks on our bikes. On one of our KTMs we had a pair of his prototype upside down forks called UDX forks of the same design as Brad Lackey used to win the 500 GP world Championship with but they never had the right feel in my opinion and i liked our normal KTM 250 more.

Kelvin built the bikes to the customers specs with in reason so you got whatever brakes, suspension, motor and color you agreed on using.

George on the UDX fork KTM at Pomona Mickey Thompson in 83
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[Jmoozy27]

Wow John, these are really good pics!!! Who took them all???

[John_Neary]

@Jmoozy27 - My Dad had a really nice camera set that he would pack around to the races and since he was friends with all the guys from Dirt Wheels, ATVnews, 3&4 Action, ect he would borrow a press pass and be able to get these shots from right on the edge of the race track where normally they would never let a person stand. Good old Pops is crafty like that.

He had a whole bag of big lenses and stuff, i always remember being impressed by my Dads camera collection.
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[atc007]

@Jmoozy27 - My Dad had a really nice camera set that he would pack around to the races and since he was friends with all the guys from Dirt Wheels, ATVnews, 3&4 Action, ect he would borrow a press pass and be able to get these shots from right on the edge of the race track where normally they would never let a person stand. Good old Pops is crafty like that.

He had a whole bag of big lenses and stuff, i always remember being impressed by my Dads camera collection.
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Best pic yet. Thank you Mr Neary. Pure gold John, pure gold.Lovin the 1980 ATC185 with suspension behind him. Super trick stuff even with just a pic of him walking through the pits!

[Orangecnty250r]

Glad to finally connect with you. I have this very Franks up here with those forks and that gold wheel !!! I knew it was blue but did change the cosmetics a bit to the orange and white Kelvin used on some of his other models. Having the other 3 blue and white models up here I desperately needed an orange and white one!! This is what it looked like when I bought it. Funny thing is once upon a time (before I bought it) it was posted up here on the boards as a KTM 3 wheeler. People were bashing it calling it a chopped up Honda (LOL) I knew it was a Franks:cool::cool:


@Toaster556 - My Dad was good friends with Steve Simons and not only did Steve make the forks but he was the Ohlins shock importer at the time so we had fork and shock sponsorship from him and is why you always saw Simons Forks and Ohlins shocks on our bikes. On one of our KTMs we had a pair of his prototype upside down forks called UDX forks of the same design as Brad Lackey used to win the 500 GP world Championship with but they never had the right feel in my opinion and i liked our normal KTM 250 more.

Kelvin built the bikes to the customers specs with in reason so you got whatever brakes, suspension, motor and color you agreed on using.

George on the UDX fork KTM at Pomona Mickey Thompson in 83
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[Orangecnty250r]

You know what is also a bit odd.....this bike came with no plate and I just happened to put an NOS white preston plate on it last year....I guess that was the right choice!

[phantomtracer]

Great stuff, John can you give us a little history as to how you ended up riding these Franks/ktm machines?
Did you pay for these bikes or were they loaned to you?

[John_Neary]

Sad story of my Franks 1984 KTM125 powered bike..in the time it took to build it the 125 pro class was done away with by AATVA and it would of been forced to race against 200cc bikes and of course i already had top of the line 200s so in the end i only raced this once or twice at my local track that Mickey has raced at, Cycle Land Speedway, just to try it out and then we sold it. :(

It was little and so darn cute, 2/3 scale of a normal Franks.
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those are 16inch Carlisle RA tires just to give you a sense of scale

Found another photo, it was so small i could tip it over just by leaning like i was in a turn.

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[John_Neary]

@Phantomracer - My Dad was well off and was buying the Franks bikes for us, i am sure at some sort of discount, but Kelvin did not have the size operation to give away anything and keep the door open as it was just a small two man crew who made everything by hand in the age before computer CNC machines.

One reason in 1985 that we switched to Hondas was because i was fast enough to get sponsorship who could not only give us free stuff but pay us to race for them, first DG racing had me riding their bikes and wearing their gear and paying nice bonus checks when id do good and after that Allen at CT Racing was a huge help and took on a massive amount of the cost when we where building all those crazy Honda/Suzuki, Yamaha/Suzuki mix engined Quads and stuff.

I was sponsored for a while by Rob Selvy but i think it was mostly i got the choice parts and his full attention more than it being a free ride, again Rob needing to keep his shop open could not really give away his custom parts and shop time and Rob already had full time riders with Dan Lamey and Fred Conover. Rob was a artist in every sense when it came to his engines.

[Orangecnty250r]

Sad story of my Franks 1984 KTM125 powered bike..in the time it took to build it the 125 pro class was done away with by AATVA and it would of been forced to race against 200cc bikes and of course i already had top of the line 200s so in the end i only raced this once or twice at my local track that Mickey has raced at, Cycle Land Speedway, just to try it out and then we sold it. :(

It was little and so darn cute, 2/3 scale of a normal Franks.


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Wow!!! I love it! ....Hopefully it still exists .....somewhere, other than a steel beam in a skyscraper!

[El Camexican]

Thank you so much for posting those photos and stories up Sir. Please keep them coming.

Billy, when does this gentleman get a star?

[barnett468]

.
Those photos of George are very cool, and the last one looks so perfect it almost looks staged . . I could only dream of looking that stylish when I raced, lol.

Here is cool article on the Frank's racer from the January 1985 issue of 3&4 Wheel action that I found on the net in case anyone is interested in it . . I like the sideways mounted muffler in the photo on the last page . . His shop was only 1 mile from our first Kawi Ran D and racing building, but unfortunately, I had not heard of him at that time so I never got to his place to see his stuff . . You can blow the images up on internet explorer if necessary.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/ATCWRENCH/Franks250R1.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/ATCWRENCH/Franks250R2.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/ATCWRENCH/Franks250R3.jpg

[Toaster556]

@Toaster556 - My Dad was good friends with Steve Simons and not only did Steve make the forks but he was the Ohlins shock importer at the time so we had fork and shock sponsorship from him and is why you always saw Simons Forks and Ohlins shocks on our bikes. On one of our KTMs we had a pair of his prototype upside down forks called UDX forks of the same design as Brad Lackey used to win the 500 GP world Championship with but they never had the right feel in my opinion and i liked our normal KTM 250 more.

Kelvin built the bikes to the customers specs with in reason so you got whatever brakes, suspension, motor and color you agreed on using.

George on the UDX fork KTM at Pomona Mickey Thompson in 83
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That's too cool. I always wanted Simons forks for my VMX bike, but try finding a set! Thanks for that inside info!

[phantomtracer]

Thanks for taking time to answer, did you feel the franks bikes were as competitive as the Honda or Kawasaki?
How often did you practice during the week?
It seemed like most pro riders still had full time jobs with the exception of the factory Honda and Kawi guys. What was your routine in order to stay competitive?
Do you know where your old machines ended up?

[ironchop]

.....Funny thing is once upon a time (before I bought it) it was posted up here on the boards as a KTM 3 wheeler. People were bashing it calling it a chopped up Honda (LOL) I knew it was a Franks:cool::cool:

Oops!

Whole lot of crow pie got served up on THAT find...hahaha.

That's an awesome "last laugh", OC.

[John_Neary]

@phantomtracer - For 1983 and 1984 the Franks bikes where as good or better than anything on the track but when Honda came out with the 1985 ATC250R we could tell that was the way to go and my Dad bought two of them as soon as they got released and my Rotax 250 that we picked up in mid 1984 was the last bike we got from Kelvin.

Far as practicing went my Dad owned a large ranch and it was covered in gravel roads that we would blast around on with our three wheelers, where George and i first learned to ride. By early 1984 i had started riding mostly motocross bikes during the week as training on a few tracks we had built around the ranch and i also would race my dirt bike at local races on the off weekends.

I was born in 69 so when most of the three wheeler pro stuff was going on i was still in Jr high and Highschool so my life was mostly school and practicing with a bit of girl chasing on the side.

During the Franks era my Dad handled the buying and selling of the bikes and i do not recall any of the buyers, later after the three wheelers got banned and the factories pulled out of pro quad racing i pretty much walked away from the sport and did not pay much attention to the fate of my old race gear as i was fully into motocross and jet skiing by that point and ATV racing was not longer my focus.

[John_Neary]

Franks Ktm 495 in action.

Riverside World Championships 1984
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Racing a two hour endurance race at Saddleback in 1983, George lapped second place like three times. :lol:
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George about to pass a slowing Dean Sundalh at the Watsonville Off Road Nations 1983
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With a hole shot in Open Class main at the San Jose Flat Track Nationals in 1983 things looked good
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Leading the pack at San Jose with #25 Eddie Sanders,#1 Mike Coe,#31 Jimmy White and #15 Marty Hart in tow.
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George ahead of Mike Coe, i asked George what happened at this race and he said his tires went away half way thru the 20 lap main and he fell back to forth or fifth as he lost all traction on the slick,blue groove track. You can also see his rear shock reservoir has come loose.
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So new we had not yet even had the frame painted and the pipe is still slick and shiny, likely the second or third day we owned the bike.
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Feel free to ask questions or add comments.

[onformula1]

I love KTM's!

What was the vibration like on the KTM 495?

Who built the exhaust?

Did you think the Simons forks were better than the Showa/KYB's?

Did you ever try a 11" front wheel on it?

[John_Neary]

@onformula1 -KTM 495 did not vibrate at all, some of our other bikes like my CR500 powered 85 ATC250R Honda and the Nicholson CR480 vibrated so bad you honestly could not ride them for more than just a few minutes before your hands went numb.

I believe the KTM495 exhaust was made by Kenny Roberts (no, not the road racing legend) who was a well know custom pipe builder out in Corona, CA who could hand weld a cone pipe in about six hours for any bike you brought him. He made many of the pipes for our custom three wheelers and Quads over the years we raced.

Simons forks are better than what Honda and Kawi had in 82,83 and 84 but in 85 the 250r came with good stuff and when i got on my Selvy 200 Honda we had the forks and shock dialed in by Wayne at PEP and that bike was super plush and yet never bottomed so it gave me better traction and i could still hang it out over jumps.

Steve Simons got out of the fork business in mid 1980s when the production rule in motocross forced Honda and everyone to put good forks and shocks on their showroom bikes and his business was no longer in demand. Later Steve would team up with Paul Turner to help invent the first mountain bike forks, the RockShox and made a fortune when he sold his stake in the business.

One thing that really held back our Franks bikes was we retired them before Hoosier released their amazing Tri Trac tires that completely changed ATC racing. Carlisle RA soft compound was what we used 99% of the time on our Franks bikes and while great tires for being a design off a lawn mower they could not hold a candle to soft compound Hoosiers with the correct grooving. We heavily grooved our tires during all the years we raced, it really helped when done right.

Our UDX KTM was the only Franks we had that used the larger 1983/84 Honda style front wheel and it made the front of the bike to tall since the frame was designed to use the shorter 81/82 style Honda type tire. Also we did not have access to the trick 21 inch tall versions that factory Honda guys got and Hoosier had not yet released their front tires.

[Toaster556]

Unrelated to KTMs or trikes, but I gotta ask. Did you get to ride the Franks Roo-link XR80?

Any plans to ride trikes again?

[onformula1]

Thank you for the info.

The KTM motors were well built (Still are) but, I am surprised they didn't vibrate a lot, being aircooled, thanks for clearing that up.

I always thought they had Wheelsmith pipes, but Kenny Roberts builds a awesome pipe.

Funny how some ex racers thought the Hoosiers were the best when then had Ohtsu's and the Ohtsu guys thought the Hoosiers were the best.... Racers. :lol:

[John_Neary]

@Toaster - I got to see a lot of Kelvin's trick motocross bikes but no i never got to ride one. No more riding for me, i broke my back racing motocross in 1992 and have been in a wheelchair since due to a bruise on my spinal cord at chest level.

@Onformula1 - I think you might be correct about the pipe being Wheelsmith, i know Kelvin would have the pipes built and the bikes ready to ride when you picked one up normally. Kenny built a lot of pipes for us so his name was the first thing that popped into my mind.

I was sponsored by Hoosier and got to use their tires all thru 85 and 86 and on the fast TT and Mickey Thompson Grand Prix tracks they where perfect for me. In 1987 i had a short lived support ride thru Team Honda to race their FourTrax along with about six other guys and i got to try out a wide range of Ohtsu tires and i loved the fronts and hated the rears. But i badly broke my wrist in late Feb 1987 on a CR250 riding at my folks house and by the time it healed the 20/20 story had broke and Honda pulled out of all forms of ATC/ATV racing due to lawsuits over three wheelers and fears four wheelers would get banned as well if they kept pushing them as race machines. So bye bye support ride.

[onformula1]

I don't know what to say, I did not know about your injury, I hope for a full recovery for you, Sir. I broke my neck in two places in 1991 in a MX race and I deal with pain every single day, unfortunately these things happen to many people in sports they love. The doctors say they can fuse my whole neck and get rid of the pain, but I have talked to people that have had the procedure performed and they say don't do it, I have learned to put it out of my mind for the most part, I don't take any pain killers and just deal with it. I still ride/race around.

Thank you for answering questions and providing the very rare photos, people in my life just can't understand how important racing is to me, they can't wrap their heads around it, seeing these vintage pictures brings me back to a much simpler time of life.

[atc007]

John, what was your view of team Honda ATC? I have heard/know of,such rotten,underhanded,frankly,,,,, cheating,,,,,it makes me sick that I've spent so much time and money over the years chasing down the stuff I've acquired. I mean ZERO disrespect to any of the Team riders... They did what they were told for the big pay check. Just the fact that Honda was the money behind most of the big races,pre ran the tracks,etc. You had to feel like under dogs everywhere you went! Which isn't a bad thing, but it had to be damn frustrating at times? It has got to make you and your family damn proud,all the competition you gave them over the years! Again, Thank you so much for sharing all of these amazing photos and stories!!

[John_Neary]

@atc007 - The Team Honda pits where a very unfriendly place to visit and the team manager Wes McCoy remains my single least favorite person i meet in my years racing ATC/ATVs. I got along well with all the riders, Curtis Sparks built my Nickolson 200 and 200x engines in 82 and 83 he was a great guy and was always nice to us. The Honda riders did not ride dirty and you could trust being six inches away from any of them going into a 70mph turn and know they would not do anything stupid.

The complaints i have besides the bad vibes their management gave off was Honda was stuffing the pockets of Doug Richards who ran the AATVA and he may as well of been a Honda employee. So Honda always got first pick of pit slots, their riders got treated head and shoulders better than everyone else by Doug and Roy Janson and if Wes wanted something banned or changed all he had to do was whisper into Doug's ear, example being when they made me take off the custom aluminum airfoil CT racing made for my Sevly 200 to use at the Porterville national that took a second or two off my lap times. By the time practice was over AATVA had outright banned it because i was gonna win by half a lap if they had not.

All the bad stuff about Honda that was whispered was due to the bad management of Wes McCoy and Bruce Ogilvie being guys who did not wanna play fair and abused the power of Team Honda to always get their way and they stepped on a lot of toes doing so.

I skimmed over Mike Coe's thread and do not disagree with anything he said.

*edited to be a bit less harsh* :)

[onformula1]

Politics don't belong in sports, but unfortunately they are a huge part of it.

I have witnessed it many times from all manufacturers, Honda was always the worst


Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

[atc007]

Thanx John. SAME STORY, different person.It is a shame they couldn't just leave well enough alone and win fair. But Wes wouldn't stand for that. It had to be maddening to be in your position. To have the speed and talent to beat them, but have the deck stacked against you almost minute to minute, them changing the rules. Your Dad must have been VERY upset....I would have been irate. Lol,, You shouldn't have edited lol.....I understand why you did though. Back to the good ol days and much happier subjects! I feel dirty that I even brought that garbage into your thread,but people need to know the truth of how bad it was going up against them. And again,, Like you said, the riders were awesome. Just the honchos at the top pulling the strings that ruined everything. I bet I know the answer to this one. Do you have any "rental car stories" ;)

[John_Neary]

@ATC007 - The whole reason my Dad made our bikes white was because he was mad at Honda and did not want them getting any benefit from our racing program after trying to work with them and getting the door slammed in his face, so to say.

While i did not go out of my way to ruin rental cars there was the times Pops rented sports cars for me to have fun in during a couple Mickey Thompson race weekends in 1986 to mess with the other riders heads and because i was obsessed with sports cars when i was 16 and was pestering him to buy me one. Pulling into the pits in a red Ferrari does in fact leave an impression. :D

We would rent them from a place called Auto Exotica in North LA, the 1985 Ferrari 308gts was like $300 a day and we rented that like three times for the weekend and one time we rented a grey market no smog installed 1986 928 Porsche with the quad valve V8 and no cat exhaust...holy cow did that thing sound awesome and it was only like $120 a day.

Rodney Gentry and i took the Porsche for a cruise during the afternoon downtime at one of the Pomona Mickey Thompson races and we found a empty parking lot and we made sure that 928 returned with a lot less rubber on the tires then it started with. :lol:

I am missing a couple photo albums that i think are in my folks storage in Reno, in one of them i have pictures of the Ferrari.

[barnett468]

Since I worked at kawi and know some of the riders I can say with certainty that kawi never did anything under handed or play dirty per se during my time there and even for some years prior . . it simply wasn't their mind set and in fact kawi never put pressure on any riders to win . . its actually almost as. Though they didn't care if the riders won . . at least they didn't want them to win by riding dirty etc. . . after Hondas attempted blatant rip off of the Loretta Lynn ATV race factory Honda rider mike coe went to the KAWASAKI pits.. . also jimmy white said that Honda riders were allowed to practice and tune the day before some of the races but everyone else was not . . if anyone has any knowledge of kawi acting poorly I would be interested to hear about it.

[atc007]

LMAO,,,for those that don't know. In the hayday of the racing, Whenever there was a big race in town. The rental fleets suffered tremendous losses lol...I heard about the Ferrari, that made quite the impression. You certainly lived fast lol! Your Dad and you boys should write a book lol. Small market, but great stuff!

[barnett468]

Daryl bassani thrashed a few . . brad lackey drove one around an MX course at night after a race then drove it on the beach and got it stuck in the surf . . harry klemm was a bit more conservative and simply wanted to see how far ours would rev so he left the pedal on the floor for around 10seconds in first gear once it started to spit and sputter . . we mistakenly thought it was a good idea to let him drive . . apparently our golfing and golf cart driving talents were not up to club standards at a course near Loretta Lynns place because they less than politely asked us never to return . . and going to a restraunt was always fun .

[John_Neary]

I think the rule of thumb back then with rental car abusing was to make sure you got it from a airport rental place since they would be less likely to walk out and check the car at return, get the walk away insurance add on if it was offered and to make sure you only did this at out of state races. Since i mostly raced the west coast rental cars did not get used as much because most the industry was based in SoCal.

I have not a single bad word to say about Team Green, everyone from Bruce Stjernstrom and James DeGain at the top, Jimmy and Chris the riders and mechanics like Reid Nordin they all where polite, friendly and raced fair. I did not get to know Steve Mendenhall well but i had some great races against him and he was a heck of a good rider. Chris i knew eariler from his Honda days riding for Rob Selvy when they owned Corona Raceway Thursday night flat track racing...in till George showed up and corrected that.

Jimmy was always a bit of a hero of mine, even when i was racing against him, and he was always friendly towards me and would not do the normal factory guy thing and hide in his boxvan all day.His nickname for me was "Killer" after i said that word out loud when i heard they planned to invert the start of a big race we where all at and my crappy 8th place heat finish suddenly put me on front row pole. It was in good humor and makes me smile thinking about it.

Not sure Jimmy and George got along so well but George was someone who used anger to motivate himself and at the races he always walked around looking like he wanted to murder someone, seriously.

This is after finishing second at San Jose in 1982 behind Mike Coe, about as happy as George ever looked.
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Two thumbs up for Team Kawasaki.

[atc007]

Wow, George had the game face down pat...... I heard that about him. How is he doing these days?

[barnett468]

Hey john . . you sure seem to know an awful lot about where to rent rental cars...hmmm lol . . yes I know even if one didn't participate in such events it was hard not. To hear if not witness some of the exploits . . Bruce stjernstrom was off the hook . . we spilled several um uh beverages together and I have some other interesting stories about him that I doubt he told his wife lol . . James was a bit more conservative or responsible should I say but still fun to be around . . even the motocross manager was deceptively fun but because of his high profile he had to appear to be reserved in public. . yeah jimmy seemed laid back to me to without an air of superiority and he would be courteous and talk to anyone that came up if he wasn't busy . . corona was a local track for me so I rode many MX races and a grand Prix there on bikes . . the short track there was my first race on a 3 wheeler . . I think Chris was there that night and won . .his bike broke another time so I loaned him mine which was just a harry klemm top end kit and he hole shot the race by a mile . . I didn't talk to him but he was really quiet . . I liked him a lot...

[Orangecnty250r]

Thank you for the additional pictures and info!! This a very exciting thread to me!!

[Dirtcrasher]

Thank You for sharing John!!!!!!!!

I have to edit just say I felt how amazing you guys are NOW!! Were trying to revamp this sport the best we can; But you guys were the pioneers,testers and racers.......

The history your shaving is phenomenal!!

Thanks again!!

[John_Neary]

@Atc007 - George is doing great, he runs a tractor service in town that gets work all over the area doing landscaping and other construction work. Makes him a good living and it gives him the winters off for hunting, his main hobby since he stopped racing. He he has hunted all over the globe including Africa and has gotten into falconry and bear hunting with hound dogs so it all keeps him busy and happy.

He will being turning 50 next year and he looks pretty much the same as in the photo. Funny enough i was the first one to start getting some grey hair and he is three years my senior.

Some more photos of the Franks KTM 250 with the Simons upside down forks or as Steve Simons called them "UDX" forks.

George at Saddleback Park
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George at Pomona Mickey Thompson
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Myself racing it at San Jose in 83 in the open class..do not recall how i did.
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[John_Neary]

Bit more Franks

Can-Am 200 mix of tracks
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Rotax 250 Watstonville Offroad Nationals
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KTM 250 Pomona Fairgrounds (not a bad crowd of ppl if you look at the stands)
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[Keith Salyer]

Second pic, top row is at Big Bear. I am number 211 on the Cammex 200 water cooler. I had jetlag bad that day and struggled at that race. Thanks for posting up all the pics John. Neat stuff.

[greenhuman]

I met Wes McCoy at Speedway 117 in 1982 and in just about 15 seconds I knew he was a dick.

[Keith Salyer]

I second that comment. Wes McCoy did give me a countershaft sprocket at a race in Louisiana (indoors) Baton Rouge I think.

[Joseph Farrow]

Wes at the Santa Cruz '83 Off Road Nationals. (All Business! LOL)

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[Jmoozy27]

It takes a big azz hat to hold that ego!!!:lol:

[John_Neary]

Franks Can-am 200s

In the first photo you can see both of our Can-am 200 class bikes, the one i am sitting on started out as a 175cc motor that we had bored out and made into a 190cc.The second bike in the background started out as a 250 that we sleeved down to a 200. The 200 was the stronger running of the two.

You can see a shorty pipe the 190, the muffler ends by my boot top.The 200 had a full length pipe.

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George has more photos of the 200s ill add later.

[onformula1]

Who built your engines?

Great pics, thank you

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[John_Neary]

@onformula1 - Klemm Research built both 200s

[Ol Deuce]

Thanks John !:Bounce:Bounce:Bounce .........Ol Deuce

[barnett468]

.

@onformula1 - Klemm Research built both 200s

He also built at least some of the Team Green Tecate 200's.

John, in case you haven't read this, the article below is written by Harry about his early escapades and the CZ he built for Rex Staten for the USGP at Carlsbad where he hole shot the race and led until his engine mounts broke. . It's pretty funny, but then he's a pretty funny guy . . I was actually a spectator at that race . . My girlfriend, whom owned AMC Motocross Club, held races there twice a month, and at Saddleback twice a month, and I raced all those events and Rex raced some of them also . . She and I both knew Larry Grismer whom ran Carlsbad, so we got to stay inside the park with all the riders on Saturday night before the race . . There were several barbecues and I think a bon fire . . My memory of that might is a little fuzzy, but I was told I had fun . . Several of the guys were out so we stopped and talked to a few of them . . It was a lot of fun.

http://articles.superhunky.com/4/292

[John_Neary]

Harry was/is a talented engine builder but we had some issues with him and after the two Can Am 200s we did not work with him any further. His Tecate 200s ran good and rarely if ever had any failures so he had those dialed in well but they where outclassed by the Selvy 200 Honda.

[onformula1]

Harry was/is a talented engine builder but we had some issues with him and after the two Can Am 200s we did not work with him any further. His Tecate 200s ran good and rarely if ever had any failures so he had those dialed in well but they where outclassed by the Selvy 200 Honda.

Who was your favorite engine builder?

Who was your favorite suspension builder?

[John_Neary]

My Selvy powered bikes never let me down and Wayne at PEP had the magic touch when it came to forks and shocks.

[bkm]

Rob is currently doing a cylinder for me setup for the small tight tracks I race on. He did a rear shock for me also that I couldn't be happier with. Rob is a really good guy.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Orangecnty250r]

Franks Can-am 200s

In the first photo you can see both of our Can-am 200 class bikes, the one i am sitting on started out as a 175cc motor that we had bored out and made into a 190cc.The second bike in the background started out as a 250 that we sleeved down to a 200. The 200 was the stronger running of the two.

You can see a shorty pipe the 190, the muffler ends by my boot top.The 200 had a full length pipe.



George has more photos of the 200s ill add later.

Thanks! I dont think the one I have is the bike in the forefront, I believe it is the one in the background. Looks like 2 of them will be getting a tribute number 26! Looking forward to more pics...your scanner must be melting!

[atc300r]

Rob is also an active member over on trx250r.net.

[John_Neary]

Some more from George's photo albums

Can-Am 200

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KTM 250

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Enjoy

[fla 2-stroke]

Very cool tread.thanks for sharing!

[John_Neary]

KTM 495 racing the 1983 Mint 400

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[OZQUAD44]

And I thought your other thread was good john, this is awsome. Mate, I'm long time trike nutter that was a little too young to compete on three wheelers, as it was all over buy the time I had the opportunity to race. I did the next best thing and raced quads for a number of years, but I would dearly love to give three wheeler racing a crack.

Given your background on 2, 3, and 4 wheelers what is your take on the different formats. Would you consider trikes as harder than racing a quad, or bike?


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[Mickey Dunlap]

Say what you will about Team Honda and Doug Richards (my ex father in law) but with out them you must remember that none of the racing would have even happen with out them. Fact! I don't disagree with anything that was said, Doug did what he had to to make every thing happen as it did. In the end he got sued by a mini rider and he lost everything because the kid got protested for having a big motor after he won the race. The man gave his sole to bring ATC racing to what is was.

[OZQUAD44]

Mickey, I get what your saying about Doug. There is always two sides to a story, and generally people have their reasons for how they conduct them selves, good bad or otherwise.

I don't understand what you mean about Doug losing every thing because some kid won a race with a big motor. Without de railing the thread too much, could you please clarify that, it's a little confusing.


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[Mickey Dunlap]

Mickey, I get what your saying about Doug. There is always two sides to a story, and generally people have their reasons for how they conduct them selves, good bad or otherwise.

I don't understand what you mean about Doug losing every thing because some kid won a race with a big motor. Without de railing the thread too much, could you please clarify that, it's a little confusing.


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Someone protested the kid that won the mini class and they found he had a big motor so the kid lost his first place. Well the kid had a break down the mom and dad claim because of this so they sued Doug. After about 15 years back and forth in court they won a big law suit against Doug and they took everything he had, house and all.

[OZQUAD44]

That is appalling. If that is the case, the lawyers, the judge, the parents and dare I even say it, the law itself all need a swift kick up the backside for being so pathetic. Life really throws up crazy stuff at times.


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[Mickey Dunlap]

That is appalling. If that is the case, the lawyers, the judge, the parents and dare I even say it, the law itself all need a swift kick up the backside for being so pathetic. Life really throws up crazy stuff at times.


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Yea my wife has worked in law offices all her life and it's crazy what people sue over. This was just sad because it was the dad that had his motor built and cause the kid to go through this. I guess they were able to prove it in court, but who was to blame is a different story. I think Doug should have gone to court, but it was in Ca. and he lived in Wash. so he didn't go to every court date. He trusted his lawyer, BIG mistake!!!!!

[John_Neary]

@Mickey - I had no problem with Doug as a person and really it was just a rock and a hard place for him to be stuck in with Honda as a major series sponsor who also had a high budget team competing in that series and they abused the power it gave them. Aside from that i have nothing but respect for all the hard work Doug, Gene and Roy put in to try and make the races happen.

The AATVA races are the only time we got to be the headliner, rest of the time we got the second class treatment with either the motocross or offroad car guys being the center of attention so i will always be grateful for the races like San Jose and San Cruz where we where the stars of the event.

[OZQUAD44]

Hi john could you please give us your thoughts on the differences between racing trikes (three wheelers) , quads, and two wheelers.

I raced quads for a numbers of years in many formats. MX, flat track (TT without jumps), speedway, super motard, and off Road.


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[John_Neary]

@OZQUAD44 - Gary Denton summed it up best when he said a dirt bike is a stool, three wheeler is a chair and a Quad is a couch. I always felt three wheelers are better "race" machines than Quads because it is so much harder to put in a perfect lap on a three wheeler so the lap times between a good rider and a so so rider on three wheelers was far greater than on Quads where pretty much anyone can jump on one and feel comfortable. Three wheelers are much more on edge and take more skill to ride quickly than a Quad, imo.

I was never on the level of speed with dirt bikes as i was at with ATVs, it was more i just loved riding dirt bikes and racing was more of a hobby on them. Personally i compare dirt bikes to like snow skiing where if you start at a really young age you are gonna have a major advantage over someone who tries the sport at a older age. ATVs did not seem to have that limitation and so are easier to get into racing them and not feeling so like a fish out of water at first.

I was a late bloomer on dirt bikes, my first real motocross bike was a 1985 CR250 when i was 15 so i missed out on all the mini bike years and it took me a good three or four years before i got "fast" on two wheelers and by that time i had ruined my left wrist and right knee and those injuries held me back more than my speed did.

Personally of the three i would pick three wheelers as my favorite to race, dirt bikes as my favorite to play on.

[OZQUAD44]

I get what your saying. Compared to a quad, a trikes take a bit more work, but when you get it right it's very rewarding.

I think that is the attraction of them for me. I'm working at putting together some local three wheeler racing here in Western Australia. Nothing locked in yet, so I don't want to jump the gun just yet, but it would be awesome to finally scratch an itch that has been building for 30 years.


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[phantomtracer]

Great stuff, what a crazy story about Dave Richards!

[Mickey Dunlap]

@Mickey - I had no problem with Doug as a person and really it was just a rock and a hard place for him to be stuck in with Honda as a major series sponsor who also had a high budget team competing in that series and they abused the power it gave them. Aside from that i have nothing but respect for all the hard work Doug, Gene and Roy put in to try and make the races happen.

The AATVA races are the only time we got to be the headliner, rest of the time we got the second class treatment with either the motocross or offroad car guys being the center of attention so i will always be grateful for the races like San Jose and San Cruz where we where the stars of the event.


I totally understand and agree with what you are saying about Honda getting what ever they wanted, I was there in the middle of it myself. The first time I spoke out about Honda getting on the track a few days before a race was at Boyd TX. on my 200 two stroke works bike. I refused to go out and test, which didn't go over very well. I proved my point that we didn't need to go out there when we already had better bikes then anyone else at the time by going out and set the track record on the oval, won the main event and Dash for cash both nights. The money that came from Toyota was what sent it over the top.

[MrConcdid]

His trike is on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kelvin-Franks-KTM-250-3-Wheeler-1-of-the-Rarest-Trikes-on-Earth-Lost-Boys-ATC/333471891295?hash=item4da4793f5f:g:cL8AAOSwhe9eFgq 5

MrC.

[hippyplz]

I'm glad you brought this to the top! I was just looking at it on eBay, what an awesome machine. I am in no way an expert on these all machine, not even on the internet. So I'm not doubting the authenticity of anything or upset anyone. The inverts seem out of place, what bike would those have came from? Is there any other examples of guys using inverts that far back? 81-83 is the guess of age, the wheels are 85-86 250r right?

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[hippyplz]

Nevermind, I guess if I had to read the thread a little bit a lot of it was right there.

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[Dirtcrasher]

Nevermind, I guess if I had to read the thread a little bit a lot of it was right there.

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I was curious what front forks he used as well...

[maxdallasfan]

https://barnfinds.com/one-of-10-made-1982-kelvin-franks-ktm-250/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_source=Newsletter+(Daily)&utm_medium=email