1985 250R ATC Dent In Frame

[arlaunch]

Howdy,

I am doing a full rebuild of an Old racing 3 wheeler. This thing was rode hard and then put away in a barn up in Vancouver, WA in 1989 were it sat.

Every part of dis-assembly has been extremely difficult. I suppose i am enjoying myself battling with this project though.

Today i finally got it most the way apart and realized a dent.

I am requesting some good ole fashion opinions on a dent i found. I have a few heli-coils and a bunch of tapping to do before taking it down to the powder coat shop in Amity, OR.

I am not sure how to repair this dent. Or.... If i even need to??


http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/Close%20Up_zpsi4tqnaww.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/Close%20Up_zpsi4tqnaww.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/Finger_zps8cbadpqz.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/Finger_zps8cbadpqz.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/Frame_zpsuip4mtvn.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/Frame_zpsuip4mtvn.jpg.html)


Thank you again fellow trike enthusiasts.

[arlaunch]

Also,

I still have a couple of broken off bolts that are corrosion welded in the frame.

Any ideas for getting those out?

I tried to drill them out but the drill just spins and spins...

Maybe my bits are dull or its just to darned hot right now?

Maybe there are special hardened drill bits for this?

Thanks again.

[yaegerb]

Don't worry about the dent. I would avoid helicoils in the frame. Use time serts

[ONEBAD350X]

Remove old bolts weld hole re tap holes.

[barnett468]

.
.
ok, you stripped it down.

You are going to blast the frame then spend a bunch of money to get it powder coated instead of blasting it with a 5.00 spray can.

Do you "need" to fix the dent?...No.

Would I fix the dent?...Yes.

You can take it to a body shop and they can weld pins on it . . Then they can heat it until its red hot and pull on the pins until it is out, then remove pins and finish making it smooth with filler.

You can also drill a hole in it then borrow or rent a slide hammar with a screw attachment and screw that into the hole then heat around the hole but about 3/8" away with a fine point on the flame so the hole does not get red hot then gently pull on it . . Heat and pull until the dent is out.

The hole may be flared outward slightly at this point, if it is, try to push it back in a little by hammaring it with a drift or place the round end of a small ball peen hammar on the hole then whack that moderately hard with another hammar . . You may need to heat the hole.

Leave a little flare sticking up and file it smooth then weld the hole and file the weld smooth then apply filler as necessary.

Ask the painter what filler you can use, however, “High Temp Metal”, or “Thermo Bond 3” will work . . Some people say they have used “All Metal” and JB Weld, however I have no personal experience with any of these on powder coating

http://www.thermobond3.com/
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[barnett468]

.

Also,

I still have a couple of broken off bolts that are corrosion welded in the frame. Any ideas for getting those out?

I tried to drill them out but the drill just spins and spins... Maybe my bits are dull or its just to darned hot right now?

Maybe there are special hardened drill bits for this?


Any sharp bit should drill through the bolts unless they are grade 8, in which case you are best of using Carbide drill bits.

Start with a small bit like a 1/8", then go up to a 3/16" then a 1/4" or 5/16" etc.

One tip to not dulling a drill bit is use air, not oil, unless it is a constant oil flood . . You can periodically put a little dribble of cutting oil on it but it won't cool it a whole lot.

Just blowing air on it from a compressor at a minimum of maybe 60 psi will help.

Another tipt is using the proper speed and a bit of pressure . . Slow is better than fast and a moderate amount of force is better than light force but be careful not to break the bits.

Wear goggles
.

[El Camexican]

I'd fix it. Do the slide hammer thing, but put some weld on the dent first to weld the hammer pin to. If you don't you may tear the tube. When you're done grind it flat.

[86125m]

Honestly I don't think I would worry about it as long as the frame is not bent. Just strip it down and prime and paint the frame and I doubt you will ever see that dent after all the parts are on it

[arlaunch]

My neighbor is a welder,

I think i will have him fill the ex bolt holes up with metal in preparation for the re-tap.

I might as well have him pop the dent and make it go away while he has the welder on.

Stay tuned!

Thanks again everybody.

[barnett468]

.

My neighbor is a welder, I think i will have him fill the ex bolt holes up with metal in preparation for the re-tap.

I might as well have him pop the dent and make it go away while he has the welder on. Stay tuned!

Thanks again everybody.

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[oldskool83]

welded it, grind it smooth, gusset the frame and powder coat it the color of your choice. Not rocket sience

[arlaunch]

Oldskool,

Very clever idea to add a few gussets. This is not going to be some OEM collectors item obviously....

I had the machine shop remove the broken bolts and, broken easy outs. I am all set with new holes and threads.

The frame is sitting in the body shop right now for dent removal.

Next i will add a custom gusset or 2, then deliver the frame to the powder coater. I am going with Prismatic's Passion Red.

This has been very expensive.

I am proud to save this thing from what would have otherwise been the scrap metal yard.

When everything is working like it should, it will be a proud accomplishment.

Maybe a foolish one too. but!

What ever.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/IMG_4286_zpss7hlvb3s.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/IMG_4286_zpss7hlvb3s.jpg.html)


http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/IMG_4309_zpshlwb4atq.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/IMG_4309_zpshlwb4atq.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/IMG_4310_zpsrtcuvckl.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/IMG_4310_zpsrtcuvckl.jpg.html)

[The_Steve_Man]

I wouldn't worry about that dent. It is from bottoming out and the caliper hitting it.

[arlaunch]

I wouldn't worry about that dent. It is from bottoming out and the caliper hitting it.

Interesting speculation.

I will have to go out and look at the caliper tomorrow morning.

I likely should not have worried about it. It is at the shop though now and to late.

Have you ever heard of anybody dunk tanking a frame prior to powder coating?

It has some rust and corrosion. It is all light surface stuff though now.

I wonder what these frames with a little bit of cancer inside of them will look like in another 30 years?

I likely won't care by then and, will have found another way to burn money and time.

[atctim]

I'd leave the dent. Adds character, plus you really will never ever see it once all together. Just look how long it took you to notice it while pulling the bike apart.

[DohcBikes]

I would have made a similar dent on the other side to even it up. I'm an idiot.

[El Camexican]

I wonder what these frames with a little bit of cancer inside of them will look like in another 30 years?

Very good point and something to think about as corroded as your frame looks. There was a guy on here a year or two back that tore his Tri-Z frame at the bottom rear of the cradle. You may want to tap around that area with a screw driver and make sure it doesn't push through anywhere before you spend too much time on it. I've seen street bike frames with zero rust showing, but the water drain holes had plugged up where the rear and bottoms of the cradles met and were braced and the tubes hidden under the gussets were almost corroded right through.

At the very least you may want to drill your existing drain holes out a little larger to makes sure they stay open in the future and that may allow you to see a little better inside that area.

[Mr. Clean]

I'm an idiot.


"Better to remain silent and be thought an idiot than to type it and remove all doubt." :)

[El Camexican]

"Better to remain silent and be thought an idiot than to type it and remove all doubt." :)

Perhaps, but honesty is the best policy.

[Mr. Clean]

Perhaps, but honesty is the best policy.

True and "no good deed goes unpunished"

[arlaunch]

I think the frame looks worse in pictures than it really is.

I will look into a dunk tank, or some sort of metal cleaning service, then post back.

I am also on a hunt to find a shop that has a magic potion to put my box of calipers, and master cylinders into. They have ancient brake fluid cemented onto them. Even after hours of soaking and scrubbing.

I should also invest in a little dielectric grease for the exterior electrical systems next 30 years.

I suppose that it could be politely noted that the dent in the frame is not from caliper impact.

[Mr. Clean]

Car bodies are acid dipped. I would be more concerned about the process to protect the inside metal post dipping process. It may be cost prohibitive to go that route.

[El Camexican]

Car bodies are acid dipped. I would be more concerned about the process to protect the inside metal post dipping process. It may be cost prohibitive to go that route.

There is a low cost process (if you can find a place locally that does it) called "e coat" Its a multi dip process that cleans the metal and applies the black coating you see on OEM and aftermarket car fenders. It's so thin it gets into everything and its good for at least 250 hours in a salt bath afterwards. Unfortunately it deteriorates in UV light, so you need get it coated. You'd need to check, but I'm pretty sure you can powder coat over it.

You would need to dip it in something like an engine block cleaner to remove all the grease and oil from inside the frame via the drain holes and get it sand blasted before they would accept it.

[Billy Golightly]

I would take a chipping hammer or something and check around the bottom of your rails, just to be sure. I had one that didn't seem *that* bad, and then it wound up looking like this after I got to checking around on it:


http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=230753&stc=1http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=230754&stc=1http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=230755&stc=1http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=230756&stc=1

[83ATC185]

Thanks El for bringing back memories of my days and nights at "the plants":lol:

E-coat is good stuff, it gets in every crack, and crevice due to the process and leaves a nice perfect coat (i forget how many microns thick) and you can paint and powdercoat over it. It's fairly fragile on its on. When i worked in E-coat, everyone carried a sharpie marker, which you can also paint and powdercoat over ;)

you might find an industrial operation willing to rack your parts when they are on top of their orders, we did several one off pieces for people during my time there. It takes around 9 hours start to finish with an operation like that, from application to cool-down. Definitely a rust inhibitor. Used on damn near every Mercedes chassis part.

I have no idea how much it would cost to do.